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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Darcie Wray
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Posted - 2006.11.05 18:52:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Darcie Wray on 05/11/2006 18:52:58 Ooooooo I wish there was a way we could make an ANTI HIGH PROFIT T2 BPO OWNER alliance and actually have a way of ganking the s*** out of the scum and steal their T2 cash machine and turn it into tons of BPCs that are given out as RP rewards to hundreds of players each month.
OFC game mechanics make this impossible. People who say "Band together and stop buying the high priced T2 stuff!" dont understand that unlike bees, we are humans. Humans in a game do not have the level of one mindedness this would require. Its a totally unrealistic demand.
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BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 18:56:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
People who cry "Cheap, cheap, ...", "ISKs, ISKs, ...", "Nerf, nerf, ..." do not have the mental capacity to push themselves far. They will never compete well in a competitive environment.
Your definition of being competitive is strange. Does griefing 5M sp noobs in T1 ship is being competitive? Fighting the best players the best way you can, THAT is being competitive and not ganking 2 month old mission runners in some dead end low sec. system. And also what mental capabilities of a titanic magnitude did the T2 lottery winners manifest for having that CCP approved ISK trainer in form of some T2 BPO's?
Is EvE supposed to be fair? By your reasoning, we make T2 cheaply available like T1. Why do we stop at there? We can make EvE fairer!
Remove skill points. Anyone can use anything. No need to train. Make all ships the same. Racial ships are different in cosmetics. Raven, Armageddon, Tempest and Megathron have missiles velocity bonus and missile damage bonus. This is even better. Remove ISKs and make everything free.
Now now don't get your panties in a twisit. You know you would be sitting here demanding something remotely fair if you didn't have t2 bpos.
If your going to make an arguement, make reasoning behind it, I did in my first post with build costs and what should be a considered fair amount.
T2 can not be made cheaply aviablie like T1. Many reasons behind it, but mainly build cost and their will always be some price gouging, which me and all of eve expect, but you and your buddies of t2 producers take it beyond gouging, to the point of shear greed and selfishness. 12x the build cost of a ship.... why not make ravens cost 960m? oh wait cause you can't, unlike t2 products their is competition in the t1 market. In the t2 market some jerk off decides to raise his prices by 10m today, his competitors see people buying em for that price, so they raise theirs to his or slightly higher.
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BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 18:59:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Darcie Wray Edited by: Darcie Wray on 05/11/2006 18:52:58 Ooooooo I wish there was a way we could make an ANTI HIGH PROFIT T2 BPO OWNER alliance and actually have a way of ganking the s*** out of the scum and steal their T2 cash machine and turn it into tons of BPCs that are given out as RP rewards to hundreds of players each month.
OFC game mechanics make this impossible. People who say "Band together and stop buying the high priced T2 stuff!" dont understand that unlike bees, we are humans. Humans in a game do not have the level of one mindedness this would require. Its a totally unrealistic demand.
This thread is here to make a point until the devs get tired of hearing about a screw up. The whole point is to hopefully get CCPs attention for the thousandth time. These threads will continue in the normal amounts (their will always be one idiot who says a hulk should cost 50m isk) until the market is fixed. I plan to continue after invention because I know the market will be barely affected by invention.
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BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:02:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 18:50:25
Originally by: Nev Clavain
Your arguments seem even less credible when you also account for the fact that you have a massive vested interest in maintaining the current status quo which nets you an absolute fortune. Hopefully Invention is going to change all this, but from initial reports it doesn't seem that promising.
Your opinion is biased because you conclude I am wrong because I have a Vagabond BPO and should not discuss further. I might as well be the jury and read the accused has murdered before and conclude the accused is guilty in his current crime that the accused is not.
If you want to argue, put me at your level and assume I am as poor and T2 BPO-less as you all.
Man your an idiot, let me use an example:
A person kills someone you love (assuming you in the USA) and they are caught and taken to court. They than form a jury of people who were close to that person. Of course those people will say guilty without hearing either side during court.
That is the same principle as you argueing for the market to stay where it is. You are one of the few who are benefiting from the these insane prices. You are to busy looking at the issue from one point of view.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:07:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Oveur ..., we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
So much aggro debating and I get no Cerberus or stuffs from T2 producers as a thank you. Sighs. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:09:00 -
[126]
Originally by: BPO HATTER
Man your an idiot, let me use an example:
A person kills someone you love (assuming you in the USA) and they are caught and taken to court. They than form a jury of people who were close to that person. Of course those people will say guilty without hearing either side during court.
That is the same principle as you argueing for the market to stay where it is. You are one of the few who are benefiting from the these insane prices. You are to busy looking at the issue from one point of view.
Yes, I am the idiot. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:19:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Red Ochre on 05/11/2006 19:21:32
Originally by: Chrisb6122 If you had ANY idea what your were talking about id happily explain the market to you,
until then please just add your "whine" to the other topics and how "you" think you can fix the tech 2 market.
i was going to leave this thread alone and then i saw this jewel. "if you had any idea" omg, chris, your a joke, as if your going to have any idea. what were you going to type? that DEMAND sets the price, that "risk verse reward" option adds to the price. time involved?, wars going on? corp mark ups?
its really rather simple chrisbuddy, this is a game economy, one that would not survive any other place but imagination.
the market in eve is simple greed before need, thats fact, jump up and down and whine about consumer demand and a player run economy being the ****nit, its not. the scenario is this plain and simple, price is set on the item, t2 or otherwise, this thread is pertaining to t2. anyway, price is set as stated BY MANY DISGRUNTLED T2 BUILDERS (gotta love those threads and their mouths eh?) the price is then adjusted to a level people begin buying (greed) the price is then readjusted, other builders are notified, prices are fixed for a length of time to gauge how badly people will pay to get a particular ship/item (greed) its not that the builders want to make a fluid market with competition, it that they want isk, plain and simple.
no t2 builder is looking to help improve the economy, help the market advance beyond what it is currently (we will see what kali does) simply and factually, threads prove this, its all greed. and for the general publics knowledge a good portion of us dont pay close to market price for t2 items. but then most everyone knew that already, didnt they?
...explain the market to us chris....... by all means go and make a video explaining the market in eve in detail and then post the link on youtube. we are waiting.......... |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:20:00 -
[128]
Personally, I don't blame the T2 producers- they're just doing what i'm sure all of us are doing. They're doing exactly what most of RL civilisation does when confronted with similar circumstances- they're selling what they've got for the best prices they can get. Theres nothing sick or twisted or greedy or evil about them- I'd probably do the same.
Thats not to say the system isn't broken though. There shouldn't be a situation where a handful of players - picked pretty much at random - are given items worth 10's of billion of ISK. And its not right that it is impossible to compete on this market, due to a lack of any method (no matter how much effort you wish to put in) of getting the base ingredient. And its certainly not right that prices have climbed steadily from reasonable (when they came out) to expensive (about a year ago) to laughable (today).
CCP knows its not right, and are bringing in Invention to fix it. Invention should (in theory) give people a route to the T2 market that does not involve winning a lottery. The products from this route will cost a great deal more than items from BPOs. While the prices are insane (as they are at the moment) people will still be able to make a great profit manufacturing their inefficient way (or, make the item for themselves at a very reasonable saving). If / when the prices settle down to something reasonable, BPOs will be the only way to compete on the sales market once more.
And of course, it all makes perfect fluff sense. unttil now, T2 has been mysterious and new-fangled. However, as the methods behind it become better researched, more people are able to manufacture. -----------------------------------------------
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Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:21:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Nev Clavain on 05/11/2006 19:26:04
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 18:50:25
Originally by: Nev Clavain
Your arguments seem even less credible when you also account for the fact that you have a massive vested interest in maintaining the current status quo which nets you an absolute fortune. Hopefully Invention is going to change all this, but from initial reports it doesn't seem that promising.
Your opinion is biased because you conclude I am wrong because I have a Vagabond BPO and should not discuss further. I might as well be the jury and read the accused has murdered before and conclude the accused is guilty in his current crime that the accused is not.
If you want to argue, put me at your level and assume I am as poor and T2 BPO-less as you all.
That wasn't my only argument (which you have misrepresented in any case), discard it if you like the rest of what I said still stands without it. I'm assuming you dont have an answer to the other points.
I didn't say that you had no right to discuss it, but i said your paper-thin 'don't buy it' argument doesn't look very credible or convincing from someone in your position.
Once again, why are CCP attempting to do something about the situation, if everything is perfectly ok as it is? Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn |
BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:27:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: BPO HATTER
Man your an idiot, let me use an example:
A person kills someone you love (assuming you in the USA) and they are caught and taken to court. They than form a jury of people who were close to that person. Of course those people will say guilty without hearing either side during court.
That is the same principle as you argueing for the market to stay where it is. You are one of the few who are benefiting from the these insane prices. You are to busy looking at the issue from one point of view.
Yes, I am the idiot.
Ya you are, finally you admit it. I mean if you can't read what I typed. "They than form a jury of people who were close to that person" if you noticed I used the word "Were" as in past tense, meaning that person exsited in the past. If that person was still here I would have said something else.
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Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:33:00 -
[131]
Originally by: BPO HATTER
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 18:50:25
Originally by: Nev Clavain
Your arguments seem even less credible when you also account for the fact that you have a massive vested interest in maintaining the current status quo which nets you an absolute fortune. Hopefully Invention is going to change all this, but from initial reports it doesn't seem that promising.
Your opinion is biased because you conclude I am wrong because I have a Vagabond BPO and should not discuss further. I might as well be the jury and read the accused has murdered before and conclude the accused is guilty in his current crime that the accused is not.
If you want to argue, put me at your level and assume I am as poor and T2 BPO-less as you all.
Man your an idiot, let me use an example:
A person kills someone you love (assuming you in the USA) and they are caught and taken to court. They than form a jury of people who were close to that person. Of course those people will say guilty without hearing either side during court.
That is the same principle as you argueing for the market to stay where it is. You are one of the few who are benefiting from the these insane prices. You are to busy looking at the issue from one point of view.
get a clue, clueless. before you open your mouth and typing finger on a half a$$ed example of anything learn the facts, or are you a "victim" of what you stated? biased obviously, undereducated on the subject, obviously, no clue? just a guess..... let me tell you "idiot" from a perspective you have probably never seen, its not that way, your example is ignorance at work. (just your example)
now, idiot, have a nice day
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DefJam101
Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.11.05 20:14:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/11/2006 18:29:50
Originally by: DefJam101
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I know I am blind but I also know I am not blind when I am discussing with
You own a very profitable T2 BPO and have an unlimited supply of ISK.
You don't have a right to try and defend yourself in this argument. Stop trying. The T2 market is unbalanced, get over it.
There is no risk, there is an unlimited amount of reward. See a problem?
Dog gone it Jenny, don't you realise that someone who knows what is actually going on has "NO RIGHT" to post in this thread?
Gesh, what were you thinking.
This thread is purely for those that can't afford the more expensive items in game and feel the need to complain.
Well, that made a lot of sense.
I think what those people are trying to say is that you have such an easy source of ISK that you lose the ability to tell what EVE is actually about. Since your experience of it is so much different, and a lot more dull if you ask me.
***
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.11.05 20:16:00 -
[133]
Just a side comment... I don't see the need to insult people that don't agree with you. That doesn't make any argument more valid. And that goes for all sides... |
BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 20:55:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Just a side comment... I don't see the need to insult people that don't agree with you. That doesn't make any argument more valid. And that goes for all sides...
I wouldn't be insulting them if they weren't acting like jerks in the first place chargin 12x the build price of a ship.
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Apsa1ar
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Posted - 2006.11.05 21:56:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Epidemis 1) Medical patents only last 5 years 2) You do not need to make it unaffordable to make it profitable. Lowering the price while still giving a nice margin would be more than enough incentive.
Not sure where you're from, but in the U.S., all patents (including medical patents) expire 21 years from the filing date.
As far as pricing goes, why should they price it at, say 400M, when they can sell out their entire stock at 500M? It would be irrational. Blame CCP for the T2 lottery. Don't blame BPO owners for pricing at prices people are willing to pay.
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Apsa1ar
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Posted - 2006.11.05 21:57:00 -
[136]
Originally by: DefJam101
If I WON the BPO.
Yes, hell yeah I would.
Doing the right thing and getting a good rep for it is worth a lot more than ISK to me. Problem is you can't win it unless you get lucky, and all the current BPO holders are self obsessed carebears who never worry about ISK anymore.
Problem is if I buy it I don't have a choice, since the cost of the BPOs are based on current market value, not the fair price. And even if I did sell at market value it would take a long time to make back the BPO cost.
So the only way to make a profit is to win the BPO. That's a pretty big problem if you ask me.
Selling at 200M under market would be idiotic. Someone would just buy out all your stock and then resell at the market price. The end user pays the exact same price, and some wealthy trader gets the profit instead of you.
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DefJam101
Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.11.05 22:27:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Apsa1ar
Originally by: DefJam101
If I WON the BPO.
Yes, hell yeah I would.
Doing the right thing and getting a good rep for it is worth a lot more than ISK to me. Problem is you can't win it unless you get lucky, and all the current BPO holders are self obsessed carebears who never worry about ISK anymore.
Problem is if I buy it I don't have a choice, since the cost of the BPOs are based on current market value, not the fair price. And even if I did sell at market value it would take a long time to make back the BPO cost.
So the only way to make a profit is to win the BPO. That's a pretty big problem if you ask me.
Selling at 200M under market would be idiotic. Someone would just buy out all your stock and then resell at the market price. The end user pays the exact same price, and some wealthy trader gets the profit instead of you.
If I wanted a profit I wouldnt sell that low, Id still get a good rep for trying. Plus I could sell them privately instead.
***
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.05 22:40:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/11/2006 22:42:08
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Yes, I am the idiot.
No, it's because you are more addicted to giving and recieving pain, than anyone else on this forum. You know it and you even say it ! That's why our opinions about t2 differ and why you never gave me a vagabond. (this smilie or that smilie , fits both ^^)
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:04:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 23:07:34
Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/11/2006 22:42:08
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Yes, I am the idiot.
No, it's because you are more addicted to giving and recieving pain, than anyone else on this forum. You know it and you even say it ! That's why our opinions about t2 differ and why you never gave me a vagabond. (this smilie or that smilie , fits both ^^)
I might give you one soon since you are so nice.
Oh baby, pod me one more time. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Vazion
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:09:00 -
[140]
I think you all are trying to explain it in real world terms too much..And that you've strayed from the topic too much.
Fortunately I can't help with bringing it back.
BPO Hatter is a Communist.
Don't you see that Capitalistic hate in the OP?
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dailyhazard
Caldari Cosmic Fusion
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:12:00 -
[141]
Edited by: dailyhazard on 05/11/2006 23:18:31 To put this thread in real life terms. I dont ask for a ferrari at the same price as a second hand nissan sunny. Ferrari costs 10k to build, they sell for 250k. If you cant afford one, you dont get one, you get a cheaper alternative and look like a pikey.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:13:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Vazion I think you all are trying to explain it in real world terms too much..And that you've strayed from the topic too much.
Fortunately I can't help with bringing it back.
BPO Hatter is a Communist.
Don't you see that Capitalistic hate in the OP?
Actually, he's more of a Socialist.
Communist EVE would look an awful lot like Sisi- everything seeded at 100isk. Nice as that would be in RL, I'm not thinking it'd make for a great game -----------------------------------------------
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BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:22:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Vazion I think you all are trying to explain it in real world terms too much..And that you've strayed from the topic too much.
Fortunately I can't help with bringing it back.
BPO Hatter is a Communist.
Don't you see that Capitalistic hate in the OP?
Dude, learn to read. Espically my OP. The part where I say "This has gone beyond capitilism. This is to the point of insanity.
Hulk=500m Hulks Build cost=40m
See a problem? I can see payin 150m-200m for a hulk because its T2, and its supposed to be "elite"."
How do you get communism from that?
If you mean that their should be no limit and let all prices fly in Rl (since that is where the idea of capitilism came from) than you are an idiot. In RL their are limits to how much you can do something like price gouge. If you are going to take an idea from the RL and expect to work, than take it fully.
Also why do people who are the ones with the t2 bpos even bother posting here? Like you vazion, you are only calling me a communist because you have those BPOs (even if they may be ammo BPOs) and you are probally gauging the locals. Or that spitfire person.
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Vazion
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:23:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Vazion on 05/11/2006 23:24:58
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Vazion I think you all are trying to explain it in real world terms too much..And that you've strayed from the topic too much.
Fortunately I can't help with bringing it back.
BPO Hatter is a Communist.
Don't you see that Capitalistic hate in the OP?
Actually, he's more of a Socialist.
Communist EVE would look an awful lot like Sisi- everything seeded at 100isk. Nice as that would be in RL, I'm not thinking it'd make for a great game
....GET OUT OF HERE COMMI!
Edit since BPO Hatter replied: Dude, lrn 2 sarcasm. It was a joke, again. You're getting to serious about this.
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BPO HATTER
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:24:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Vazion I think you all are trying to explain it in real world terms too much..And that you've strayed from the topic too much.
Fortunately I can't help with bringing it back.
BPO Hatter is a Communist.
Don't you see that Capitalistic hate in the OP?
Actually, he's more of a Socialist.
Communist EVE would look an awful lot like Sisi- everything seeded at 100isk. Nice as that would be in RL, I'm not thinking it'd make for a great game
Thats a real insult, care to back up where I want everything at one price? I clearly stated in the OP that I understand their will be price gauging, and that it is fine to a point. Learn to read you newb.
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Vazion
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:28:00 -
[146]
Originally by: BPO HATTER
Thats a real insult, care to back up where I want everything at one price? I clearly stated in the OP that I understand their will be price gauging, and that it is fine to a point. Learn to read you newb.
Give up. Go back up and read the part where I said, 'Fall into the pit where you call everyone an idiot and accept no opinions but your own.' Read it twice just incase.
You are a very angry person. If you had the Hulk BPO we wouldn't even be having this ****ed coversation.
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Karina Harington
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:37:00 -
[147]
Originally by: dailyhazard I dont ask for a ferrari at the same price as a second hand nissan sunny. Ferrari costs 10k to build, they sell for 250k.
Ferrari funnel a lot of money into the development of said car. Before one car even begins production, they've spent a fortune on it. They've spent years refining the design of the chasis, the performance of the engine and the sleek interior. They spend a hideous amount and put their latest and most expensive technology in their top of the line cars. Many Ferrari employees have spent years working on the designs of their cars.
T2 BPO owners...entered a lottery and waited.
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dailyhazard
Caldari Cosmic Fusion
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:52:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Karina Harington
Originally by: dailyhazard I dont ask for a ferrari at the same price as a second hand nissan sunny. Ferrari costs 10k to build, they sell for 250k.
Ferrari funnel a lot of money into the development of said car. Before one car even begins production, they've spent a fortune on it. They've spent years refining the design of the chasis, the performance of the engine and the sleek interior. They spend a hideous amount and put their latest and most expensive technology in their top of the line cars. Many Ferrari employees have spent years working on the designs of their cars.
T2 BPO owners...entered a lottery and waited.
Time is money. When we get bpo's we spend time, invested in skills to produce said item and also in best marketing strategys and to maximise property. We are like ferrari, whether you like it or not, now get back in the vauxall nova!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:52:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Vazion Edited by: Vazion on 05/11/2006 23:24:58
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Vazion I think you all are trying to explain it in real world terms too much..And that you've strayed from the topic too much.
Fortunately I can't help with bringing it back.
BPO Hatter is a Communist.
Don't you see that Capitalistic hate in the OP?
Actually, he's more of a Socialist.
Communist EVE would look an awful lot like Sisi- everything seeded at 100isk. Nice as that would be in RL, I'm not thinking it'd make for a great game
....GET OUT OF HERE COMMI!
Edit since BPO Hatter replied: Dude, lrn 2 sarcasm. It was a joke, again. You're getting to serious about this.
I was in sarcasm mode too- note the
Learn the sarcasm volley . Maybe prolongued irony isn't all the effective in text form.............
No offense meant to BPO HATTER- in case you hadn't noticed, I've been aggreeing with you so far -----------------------------------------------
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Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:58:00 -
[150]
Ppl, just give up on RL examples. It won't work. Nowhere in RL you can get such an insane amount of profit virtually out of nothing without absolutely any effort at all and zero risk. The numbers that were used to determine the amount of T2 BPOs needed are completely irrelevant now, when we have some 28k ppl online sometimes. CCP understands that the current situation is unacceptable, and that's why invention is coming. We'll have to see and wait if this will be a step in the right direction, or it won't have any impact on the markets.
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