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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
423
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Posted - 2015.10.19 18:28:18 -
[421] - Quote
People who want to fight "risk averse behavior" are just like Don Quixote. Windmill are no knights and "risk averse behaviour" no Problem in EvE. This discussion is dancing around wrong idols.
Turn the argument a little and what do you see? Those ppl want fast pewpew and when the don't get it, they get angry. EvE doesn't look like fast pewpew to me. It takes a long time to join fleets and start a roam. Hunting solo takes time too.
Why should some untrained PvE guys send out their chars that are trained for pve - ravens? The outcome is obvious, so the fight is not only boring but also expensive. Why should one play victim, for one who is unable to get some fight otherwise?
For some ppl avoiding fights is pvp enough.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
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Posted - 2015.10.19 18:39:27 -
[422] - Quote
If the idea mentioned a few posts back that as soon as someone clicks "UNDOCK" that they are consenting to PVP it is very clear what the problem is.
People who don't want to PVP won't undock PVP'rs don't get the fights Risk Adverse PVE guy stays docked until he decides this game isn't for him, unsubs. PVP'r still doesn't get the fights.
PVP'r eventually either quits, blobs with other consenting pvp players or turns to PVE.
Game numbers reflect this.
We see this all the time in High-Sec war decs. When entire corps and alliances stay undocked or logged off, that is when frustration builds from the aggressor.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2340
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Posted - 2015.10.19 19:00:59 -
[423] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The only way to counter risk aversion would be to mandate ass beatings for all eve subscribers.
That way they would know the different between real and imagined loss.
Maybe after some physical interaction they'd be able to distinguish between a broken jaw and the loss of pixels and wouldn't boo hoo their lives away whenever they encounter what their inferior intellects classifies as a "loss".
Start by educating yourself and cut both your legs just to be sure you know what it means to lose something physically. Then you can start telling other what a real loss is. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2569
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Posted - 2015.10.19 20:23:51 -
[424] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Not to defend Feyd as he can speak for himself.
This thread is 6 months old. It was necro' by CAM begging for skillbooks. The thread hadn't been posted in for the last 2 months.
When Feyd made the thread, he wasn't in PL. He was in BL having only recently joined them at that point and moved out of highsec.
Not difficult facts to check before someone complains about PL (or anyone else) whining.
Notwithstanding that its a farcical statement made by some that there are always caps or triage behind a roaming gang just because PL (which in todays jump-range & jump fatigue world just demonstrates those comments are more about past PL-induced butthurts made by ree ree's than based on any knowledge of today's meta...)..
...the focus of the original article actually wasn't really from a vet viewpoint or whining, but more so about how do we inspire more novice and mid level players (and associated groups) to go out and shoot things from a mechanics perspective, without staying docked when a fights victory was in question and victory not assured. How do we inspire more players stuck on the hisec PVE hamster wheel to give PVP a serious attempt. When you're new, or in a newer corp or alliance, individual ship losses can hurt -- and that's the double-edged sword of our ship pain-mail obsession the article was raising, that failure-to-reach-critical-mass cost of said obsession.
I don't speak for PL, at all, but I look at what Pandemic Horde is achieving and give a big thumbs up. Now, just imagine if we can combine the great efforts of social groups like that with mechanics changes (i.e. better insurance) to reach all players not in groups like that, and we may have a winning combination towards finally achieving constant thunderdoming outside of empire space.
tldr; So long as we don't re-evaluate our obsession with high-pain inducing ship losses, and don't consider shifting loss pain to perhaps structures or other things instead, risk aversion associated with ship losses will remain, and a thunderdome never achieved. Ships are the very fuel we burn for content, and as such if we keep the pain factor tied to those, we reduce said conflict.
IMHO
F
Would you like to know more?
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MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
328
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Posted - 2015.10.19 20:59:53 -
[425] - Quote
Mister Holder wrote:The biggest issue I see for a lot of people getting into PvP is that they want to start out Solo. This is pretty much a no go in Eve as half of the people doing PvP end up gate camping choke points for easy kills.
I think it has been proposed before, but it would be absolutely awesome if CCP were to implement some sort of module that allowed the scanning of a jump gate to see how many entities are sitting on the other side.
It would be sweet if you could cram a smart bomb through the gate.
I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
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Posted - 2015.10.19 21:07:19 -
[426] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Mister Holder wrote:The biggest issue I see for a lot of people getting into PvP is that they want to start out Solo. This is pretty much a no go in Eve as half of the people doing PvP end up gate camping choke points for easy kills.
I think it has been proposed before, but it would be absolutely awesome if CCP were to implement some sort of module that allowed the scanning of a jump gate to see how many entities are sitting on the other side. It would be sweet if you could cram a smart bomb through the gate.
Awesome idea... Bombs from a special bomber ship that jump the gate and blow up in a 15km sphere at a random jump point...
It is so evil I love it
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
706
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Posted - 2015.10.19 22:50:12 -
[427] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: Not to defend Feyd as he can speak for himself.
This thread is 6 months old. It was necro' by CAM begging for skillbooks. The thread hadn't been posted in for the last 2 months.
When Feyd made the thread, he wasn't in PL. He was in BL having only recently joined them at that point and moved out of highsec.
Not difficult facts to check before someone complains about PL (or anyone else) whining.
Notwithstanding that its a farcical statement made by some that there are always caps or triage behind a roaming gang just because PL (which in todays jump-range & jump fatigue world just demonstrates those comments are more about past PL-induced butthurts made by ree ree's than based on any knowledge of today's meta...).. ...the focus of the original article actually wasn't really from a vet viewpoint or whining, but more so about how do we inspire more novice and mid level players (and associated groups) to go out and shoot things from a mechanics perspective, without staying docked when a fights victory was in question and victory not assured. How do we inspire more players stuck on the hisec PVE hamster wheel to give PVP a serious attempt. When you're new, or in a newer corp or alliance, individual ship losses can hurt -- and that's the double-edged sword of our ship pain-mail obsession the article was raising, that failure-to-reach-critical-mass cost of said obsession. I don't speak for PL, at all, but I look at what Pandemic Horde is achieving and give a big thumbs up. Now, just imagine if we can combine the great efforts of social groups like that with mechanics changes (i.e. better insurance) to reach all players not in groups like that, and we may have a winning combination towards finally achieving constant thunderdoming outside of empire space. tldr; So long as we don't re-evaluate our obsession with high-pain inducing ship losses, and don't consider shifting loss pain to perhaps structures or other things instead, risk aversion associated with ship losses will remain, and a thunderdome never achieved. Ships are the very fuel we burn for content, and as such if we keep the pain factor tied to those, we reduce said conflict. IMHO F
I'm aware of the jump changes. I'm also aware that PL has supers in range of most of Black Rise. I frankly don't believe that you would station 3-4 billion ISK worth of ships outside BRAVE's present home station without backup.
It's just an example of how the bittervet power blocs treat people who are actually willing to undock and provide content. Pretty soon they won't do it anymore.
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
375
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:24:55 -
[428] - Quote
Please. Allow me to swing this sledge hammer just one more time, then I'll assume I'm speaking to the dense.
PEOPLE DON'T PVP BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO
You can rationalize, surmise, speculate, calculate all you want, the simple fact is PVP gamers are a minority! There are many reasons for THIS, most of which would likely zoom over your heads, judging by the bandwidth wasted here chasing down circular logic and flat-out untruth. However, I will repeat this one last time:
PEOPLE DON'T PVP BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO
It's not because you haven't tilted the board enough to make the PvE-ers roll down into the PvP gutter. There isn't a magic combination of operant conditioning steps that have been overlooked. It's just a simple fact you can't get your heads around.
"Why?" You might ask. "Why don't others find fun what I find fun?" Well, you really have to consider, one main reason (judging how little the creators of this baby threadnaught can digest facts) your inability to listen to others and accept facts about them could be why most EVE players don't want to play what YOU play... part of that would be having to play with YOU.
Okay. Now. I'm going to act like an adult, and you may continue pursuing your fantasy world here to give yourselves a solid feeling you're doing something smart, clever, special and of course important.
PS A little PS here. Calling PvP-ers names like "risk averse", no matter how clever the inventor of the term might think it is, and no matter how enthusiastically the minority of PvP-ers ran to grasp it as their battle cry, people won't do what they don't want to do unless they're forced to. Should they be forced to one of two things will happen, they'll leave, and if they can't leave, they'll begin to foment armed revolution. The target? You have to ask?
Fear of death follows from fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. -Mark Twain -
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Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
601
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:34:24 -
[429] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:The problem with the "risk aversion" argument is that everyone has a different opinion of what that means. Some people think a person is risk averse when they dont have a death wish.
pretty much.
I don`t need to lose 30 billion ISK in assets to know it will happen. Undock in a T1 plate tanked bestower, see how many people piled on to the kill mail.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2612
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:38:13 -
[430] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: tldr; So long as we don't re-evaluate our obsession with high-pain inducing ship losses, and don't consider shifting loss pain to perhaps structures or other things instead, risk aversion associated with ship losses will remain, and a thunderdome never achieved. Ships are the very fuel we burn for content, and as such if we keep the pain factor tied to those, we reduce said conflict.
IMHO
F
Ignoring the rest of the blather, this already has been done by CCP. Citadels will always remain at risk of loss under their mechanics proposals, and presumably every other new structure will also. So the only question is if the PvP groups are going to go Citadel KM mad since they will always drop mineral value which will pay for any Wardecs and thus drive all their prey away, or if they will actually hunt at a sustainable level. Personally I'm predicting the former and that they will wonder why no-one puts them up after three months but the big null groups. |
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ArmyOfMe
Hull Breach. Outnumbered.
496
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:42:14 -
[431] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:ArmyOfMe wrote:Sorry, but a member of PL complaining about risk adverse players is pretty priceless. PL are one of the reasons that so many are risk adverse these days. Low sec entitys were scared shitless of being hotdropped by PL supers whenever they wanted to field caps. Sure its fair game to do so, and in those regards i dont even mind it, but please understand what has caused lots of ppl to become more risk adverse. Players all over eve have become so used to being titan bridged upon during fights that a lot of fc's have most of their contact list filled with known titan pilots from the area, and either simply refuse to take a fight due to some titan pilot being online cause they expect to be dropped on if they try to fight. ps: PL isnt the main reason for this, but they sure as heck didnt help either Yea I saw PL station camping brave in Kehjari a few days back with 2 Machariels, 2 resebo lokis and 2 basilisks, assuredly with triage and super alts on standby (because PL). You don't get to complain about lack of content when all you do is try to farm other people for content whilst sitting smugly behind the walls of an escalation capability no one else can match, except for the other nullsec power blocs who share your aversion for risking major assets. Not to defend Feyd as he can speak for himself. This thread is 6 months old. It was necro' by CAM begging for skillbooks. The thread hadn't been posted in for the last 2 months. When Feyd made the thread, he wasn't in PL. He was in BL having only recently joined them at that point and moved out of highsec. Not difficult facts to check before someone complains about PL (or anyone else) whining. Well I'm ex BL as well, and we used to do exactly the same as PL, only on a smaller scale since we didnt have nearly as many supers as them. So my point still stands.
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
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