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Merdaneth
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
360
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Posted - 2015.05.06 17:19:57 -
[31] - Quote
Deceiver's Echo wrote:I humbly request all aggression towards Drifter assets cease. All efforts from this point forward should be attempts to communicate.
Violence is a form of communication.
What do you think Drifters message is when they open fire at certain triggers?
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
978
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Posted - 2015.05.06 17:46:14 -
[32] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:What do you think Drifters message is when they open fire at certain triggers?
"Don't interfere in our operations."
A message that empires and capsuleers say every day with the same language. |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
46
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Posted - 2015.05.06 18:02:26 -
[33] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Violence is a form of communication. They communicate in ways other than violence as well.
Scanning for instance. Their scanners operate on principles seemingly similar to the Entosis Links. We know that this technology transfers consciousness into databases. They could be attempting communication, and not finding sentient response due to scanning the wrong databases.
If they are indeed "awakened sleepers", as part of a digital society they perhaps require external storage to exist.
It is possible that the vessels are not simply modes of transport, but part of who and what they are. Much like our link with our vessels, but much more intimate and integral.
Therefore, communication may be impossible without direct scanning of our corpses, and even then, they may not understand what they are scanning. It may be possible to communicate via other methods that are beyond our reach. Requesting access from individuals and political entities with such methods would be the best course of action.
Attempts could be made to access resources and personnel capable of such communications from the Amarr Empire, CONCORD, and Sansha's Nation. As an individual I do not believe I have the political clout to request such assets, but as a group, Capsuleers may be able to persuade these entities to share their assets.
EDIT:
Speculation: Perhaps the disruption of communication that occurred during the recent release of findings regarding the Drifter corpse was an attempt to communicate, one that was too much for the communications systems to compensate for. It could have been an attempt at rescue as well. |
Merdaneth
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
360
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Posted - 2015.05.06 18:20:14 -
[34] - Quote
Deceiver's Echo wrote:Merdaneth wrote:Violence is a form of communication. They communicate in ways other than violence as well.
I don't understand. Are you advocating that we should stop scanning them as well, because they scan us too?
Are you also advocating that they should continue to use violence to find vessels for communication (corpses)?
Are you advocating that we should kill off our own to that they might be able to communicate?
Do you believe their current form doesn't allow them to understand simple binary coded messages?
It is simple, if they trespass and break laws in Amarr sovereign space, they should be treated as pirates and dealt with accordingly. Why should they receive some exempt status? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
666
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Posted - 2015.05.06 18:33:58 -
[35] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:It is simple, if they trespass and break laws in Amarr sovereign space, they should be treated as pirates and dealt with accordingly. Why should they receive some exempt status? Respectfully, sir, is it really that simple?
... they might decide they weren't speaking loudly enough. And you've got a lot of doomsday devices over a lot of densely inhabited worlds.
I'm not quite saying they should (or, pragmatically, can) be left in peace, but ... respectfully, maybe don't tempt fate by treating something terrifying as though it were ordinary? |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
46
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Posted - 2015.05.06 18:36:30 -
[36] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Deceiver's Echo wrote:Merdaneth wrote:Violence is a form of communication. They communicate in ways other than violence as well. I don't understand. Are you advocating that we should stop scanning them as well, because they scan us too? Are you also advocating that they should continue to use violence to find vessels for communication (corpses)? Are you advocating that we should kill off our own to that they might be able to communicate? Do you believe their current form doesn't allow them to understand simple binary coded messages? It is simple, if they trespass and break laws in Amarr sovereign space, they should be treated as pirates and dealt with accordingly. Why should they receive some exempt status? 1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Communication may not be perceived. Just as we look for such communication and do not understand theirs, the inverse is also possible.
5. We are Capsuleers. We can choose to act as we please. Has the Amarr Empire stated to Loyalists that they must interdict Drifter assets? If not, then is it not optional?
Communication is possible. I am not saying that it is achievable. Every effort should, however, be made. My suggestion is to first attempt to gain access to the means of communication. If that is not possible, we should attempt to develop a method of communication. |
The Golden Serpent
Kokutai
25
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Posted - 2015.05.07 11:43:51 -
[37] - Quote
No orders have been given regarding the drifter presence! We are maintaining our attention on the tribal threat. I think that the Drifters are looking for God and religion. They see that it has worked for us and they want to protect it and be a part of it and learn to walk with the sacred fire. God has given them the ability to see and they have come to Amarr to learn from our ways. By the sacred laws of hospitality given to us by God these advanced and intelligent people who have come to us should be treated as any guest and given lodging, safe passage and food. Clearly God has favored them with such power, either to bring aid to the faithful or they are a test of our faith, God forbid that we fail.If they destroyed the Jove that is God's will. If they begin attacking us without provocationt then the Empress will guide us to victory.
Amarr Victor! |
Frenjo Borkstar
Viziam
64
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Posted - 2015.05.08 09:02:43 -
[38] - Quote
The fact is, Echo may be right. We've already tried peaceful communication before engaging, and where did it get us? Nowhere.
They refused to listen, and heck they don't even have vocal chords so they might not even be able to talk, or understand what it is.
I'm on the borderline at the moment, but will see if I can get the attacks stopped.
Dr. Frenjo Borkstar,
Project Lead for Arek'Jaalan's Project Salus.
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
982
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Posted - 2015.05.08 09:16:28 -
[39] - Quote
Frenjo Borkstar wrote:...but will see if I can get the attacks stopped.
Unless they start talking, which I doubt, I believe it will be impossible at this point to achieve peace. And with the Antikythera Elements being harvested now? There's no way to turn back the clock. Capsuleers have found a new resource to harvest. And like all good locusts, they will swarm and consume and give no heed to what they feast on. All they know is to acquire. |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
48
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Posted - 2015.05.08 18:36:52 -
[40] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Unless they start talking, which I doubt, I believe it will be impossible at this point to achieve peace. And with the Antikythera Elements being harvested now? There's no way to turn back the clock. Capsuleers have found a new resource to harvest. And like all good locusts, they will swarm and consume and give no heed to what they feast on. All they know is to acquire. Perhaps that is part of the plan of the Drifters.
Think about the processes they use, their behavior. Add to this the semantics used in their identification. "Vigilant". To watch over a long period of time.
If I were the Drifters, and I knew of Capsuleers, I would allow their natural instincts take over. Use these "high value targets" as bait to learn as much as I can about Capsuleers. Set up a simple test target, such as the Circadian Seekers. Escalate the observation by adding defensive response. Further escalate the test by bringing in test assets to observe continued aggression and escalation of opposition.
It is not just potential war we are avoiding by non-violence, but denying the enemy further data points should violence become a necessity.
It is perhaps too late, but communication is still possible. Recent intel shows potential for invasion force, or mass migration. If the term Drifter is any indication, these assets are migratory and as such could conceivably maintain extended aggression over a wide target area. The question; are they migrating to us, or somewhere else? I suggest the latter; if such an invasion were to occur, it would put a strain on the resources of a migratory society. It is more likely that the Drifters are attempting to gain access to a new region, one which we may be on the verge of discovering. Wormholes previously undiscovered have appeared, Sansha's Nation has wormhole generation technology. It is only a matter of time before this technology progresses. If we are seen as a competitor, one with greater resources, they will not attempt direct conflict. They will attempt to avoid us, while also preparing for an eventual confrontation.
If we can avoid violence, if we can form an alliance, we would be greater than we are individually. We would be able to expand without need for competition. Capsuleers, in our current fractured state, are most likely seen as unsuitable allies. If, however, we present some sort of unified front devoted to peace, we may potentially gain an ally that can give us freedom from the Empires.
Think about this for a moment. Expanding into new regions, with powerful allies and new tools.
Can we put our short term wants aside for long term benefit? At this time, perhaps not, but it is a noble goal, non? |
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Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
29
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Posted - 2015.05.08 18:56:45 -
[41] - Quote
Sorry. The communications protocols redirected this broadcast to the wrong thread. |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
48
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Posted - 2015.05.08 19:08:36 -
[42] - Quote
Captain Davison wrote:Sorry. The communications protocols redirected this broadcast to the wrong thread. Understood, and no apology necessary. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1715
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Posted - 2015.05.08 22:28:18 -
[43] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:No one is going to listen to the request of a Nation loyalist.
And this is our space, not theirs. If they wish to communicate then they can be the ones to initiate it, after leaving our space. Judging from past experience with these drifters, seekers, sleepers, and so on, communication is not something they will be doing anytime soon. Yet there are other invaders in our space, who are killing our peoples. Unlike drifters, presence of gallenteans and sanshas in our space leads to daily casualties. Before taking on drifter threat the Republic, the Federation and the Nation must be defeated. |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
49
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Posted - 2015.05.08 22:33:32 -
[44] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Before taking on drifter threat the Republic, the Federation and the Nation must be defeated. That is not the topic up for discussion here. If you do not have anything constructive to say on this particular matter, please abstain from commenting.
Thank you in advance for your compliance. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1716
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Posted - 2015.05.09 01:16:39 -
[45] - Quote
Deceiver's Echo wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Before taking on drifter threat the Republic, the Federation and the Nation must be defeated. That is not the topic up for discussion here. If you do not have anything constructive to say on this particular matter, please abstain from commenting. Thank you in advance for your compliance. Ma'am, if agreeing with you and providing a reason for agreeing isn't "constructive" to your conversation, then I have no idea what do you exactly want. For people to disagree with you just because you want to argue? Maybe you should abstain from communications then for a while? |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
49
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Posted - 2015.05.09 01:34:29 -
[46] - Quote
Ms. Kim,
You put forth a valid question that I feel deserves a response. I can make my own points, and to be honest, I do not want you defending me. When your idea of agreeing with me includes promoting attacks on others, it is neither beneficial nor wanted. I hope you can understand my view. I respect your viewpoint but I do not share it. I do not wish to argue but I also do not wish to idly sit by and watch you use my position to attack others.
I hope that is a clear enough explanation as I will no longer be addressing you in this thread nor any other. I will however continue to communicate, as I also encourage you to do. I simply do not wish this particular thread to be derailed by your aggressive stance.
Fly safe, Ms. Kim. |
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