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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:52:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jasai Kameron
The Rokh is the best fleet sniping ship around. I think that counts as cookie.
I have no problem with you getting the Drake or HAM, so long as they're not overpowered. The Drake sounds a bit overpowered as it has good dps and an awesome tank. Yeah, it can't scramble without sacrificing some of the tank, but it can easily fly with an interceptor wingman and be pretty darn scary.
And yes, it's an ECM monopoly, or is supposed to be. ECM ships like the Scorpion and the Rook should be getting something to compensate the nerf, according to Tux's blog:
Step 1: Lower the jam strength of all ECM modules, Step 2: Increase the ship bonuses of all dedicated ECM ships, Step 3a: Create a new low slot module that boosts the jam strength of all ECM modules, Step 3b: Stacking nerf the jam strength attribute.
Now, I don't actually have a problem with that. A Celeste shouldn't be as good a ECM ship as a blackbird. But it does mean that the best form of EW is now a lot, lot better on Caldari ships than it is on anybody elses ships.
Yes the Rokh is going to be a good fleet sniper.. of course only at the most extreme ranges, it will still get out damaged by the Tempest/Megathron at under 200km, I would think. It's also going to be quite a bit more expensive than those other ships, which I guess doesn't matter since it's completely insurable but it's still a higher "tier" battleship than the Megathron/Tempest.. so okay now we have more fleet capable battleships and all the Caldari guys out there who trained for Harpy, Eagle, ect have a battleship classed ship of that type. How this is game breaking, I fail to see.
Drake is NOT overpowered, 4x large extender II, 2x Invul, 4x PDU II setups are just retardedly hard to kill. You have the DPS that would have trouble fighting its way out of a wet paper sack when all turtled up like that, it's a stupid setup that annoys people on SiSi, maybe it needs nerfed, but honestly it's just a freaking byproduct of the increase to ship HP and boost to extenders. I am willing to bet you can do the same **** annoying setup with quite a number of other ships too. I seriously don't see people flying around like that on tranquility.
ECM Jammers is the Caldari racial electronic warfare.. however not all Caldari ships get a jamming strength bonus and yeah some Caldari ships are getting the increased bonus to compensate but quite a few will not be able to be used for ECM reliably now, like the Blackbird for example.
I do believe the Rook, Scorpion, ect did get higher jamming strength bonus to compensate and yes ECM jammers did need nerfed on ships that weren't really meant to jam so it's fine with me. Everyone and their mother fitting 1-2 Multis was a total joke and I'm glad it's being nerf batted into oblivion.
Celestis should be a perfectly capable ECM ship just as capable as the Blackbird.. with Damps, not Jammers. (Honestly I get the feeling Damps are better now anyways) ===================
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:56:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Waxau
Brutix vs drake, and brutix will win.
I can vouch for this.
Also, if its using its mids for PvP, it wont have such a great tank. The PvE setups doing the rounds on TQ at the moment are not realistic.
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Dray
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:09:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Dray on 07/11/2006 21:09:16 Ive tried the drake on sisi and it does tank like a motherf**ker, ive also set it for solo pvp with tackling, with and without an mwd/ab..
Guess what the tackling setup got pwnd hard....
Nerf the drake on sisi but leave as it is for tranq, my guess is you'll see it doing missions all day long.
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Futuri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Waxau
Brutix vs drake, and brutix will win.
I can vouch for this.
Also, if its using its mids for PvP, it wont have such a great tank. The PvE setups doing the rounds on TQ at the moment are not realistic.
Heh Brutix >> Drake, and its a t1 BC.
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Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:44:00 -
[65]
If the original poster is complaining only about the shield resists on the drake, then why isn't he complaining about the prophecy. It is not all that different except the passive resist modules for armor are actually good.
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Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:53:00 -
[66]
Nighthawk sucks for Caldari, Cerberus Price is instance for caladari. Our Dictor is a slag. our Raven, is awsome though, but caldari deserves this 2 ga**** ships, not that they re going to be much of a difference. you can break the drake's tank. remember that even ferox will tank that well, HP boost remember.
Quote: "Don't touch the RED butt |
Dopefish
Amarr Quad and Fish
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Posted - 2006.11.07 23:24:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
Why, please explain your math?
As it is now the passive tank has the same shield per second boost as before the increase. With a larger shield buffer your tank can run for longer giving ships with low to medium dps the impression that the tank is unbreakable. It's not ofcourse, but the increased buffer allows your passive tank to run for longer and thus boosting more in total than with the old system.
Active tanking is unaffected and so is passive armor tanking, but passive shield tanking gets the benefit of a huge buffer and gets to keep its recharge.
Its not the recharge time on ships thats unbalancing though. It's the absence of a shield recharge penalty on extenders.
just my opinion.
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xPreatorianx
Caldari Immortalis Silens Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.11.07 23:49:00 -
[68]
You guys forget when u use HAMS they have **** range 30km max well javs have a long range but those are javs.Rages and normal HAMS have a low range so stay out of a drakes range and pick it off not that hard!
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.08 00:10:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Am I the only future Drake pilot who wants the 5% resist bonus changed? Make it 10% missile velocity, like the other missile ships. Like someone said, Caldari are supposed to do evil things with their range advantages. Forget that silly "sit there and absorb damage" thing, I'd much rather sit out of range and IGNORE your damage.
And yes, I realize that long range and tackling are mutually exclusive concepts. But the Drake in its current form is useless as a solo ship anyway, so who cares.
\
Yes, you are the only one. The velocity bonus is pretty crappy.
Take a look at the maximum range (especially compared to damage) on most cruisers/BCs. Now tell me you don't want a choice of:
1) Park your drake 100km from the target and ignore ALL of the damage, compared to a mere 25% at most.
or
2) Out-range the close-range setups, while still keeping flight time nice and short.
or
3) Do close-range damge from completely broken ranges with heavy assault launchers.
Yes 600DPS from 12km (you won't hit 15km with max skills, that's a theoretical max), is really insane, and only the Drake can pull it off...
...oh wait, that's right, no it's not.
Ohwell it's not like a Brutix can do more, oh wait yeah it can.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.08 00:13:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Captain Raynor No it's the Drake, it's Caldari after all, thus completely unfair.
The entire server will soon be flying nothing but Drakes, it's just that good.
Just like the Hawk changes, what a forbidding omen that was, didn't CCP know that making it a missile AF would just ruin the game? PvP is entirely dominated by Hawks now, it's awful. Won't you please for once think about the other races, CCP??
/sarcasm
QFT, I had to stop playing EVE because of the Hawk being so absurdly strong*. It's clear CCP simply wanted to give the Caldari an AF that was superior to all others.
*real reason may actually have more to do with extremely busy RL.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.08 00:15:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Zixxa So why do you asking about missile protection? We see that turrets are killing Lotka(tbh, very powerful alliance), not missiles.
They ask because it's something missing from EVE?
Not all *****ing ius done by people who want something to save them in their current situation.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.08 00:20:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Dopefish If something has to be nerfed its passive tanking, as in shield recharge time. Tux said he would nerf recharge time by 50% to balance the 50% boost but thats not enough.
If you increase the shield capacity and extenders by 50% you need to up the recharge by 100% to compensate for the increased buffer.
Not everyone fits extenders on all shield setups (altho they should), so over nerfing is abit silly. Besides, if you boost regen time by 50%, that's going to drop alot of godly passive tanks down to the level of the current TQ ferox, where, sure a pure passive setup gives a better peack recharge, but you get that recharge for a small fraction of your shields, whereas an active tank always gives you straight tanking.
If you want overkill, watch someone use a setup that lets them boost an XL booster forever getting 700+ shields per boost. THAT is sick.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Garonis
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Posted - 2006.11.08 00:48:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Garonis on 08/11/2006 01:03:42 Im tired of all the Gallente whining about a ship that might not fall to their guns immediately. Gal ships are overpowered across the board as is, and can defeat most ships, especialy Caldari without breaking a sweat. Ref: Brutix v/s Ferrox (this is a joke), Enyo v/s Harpy, Thorax v/s Caracal (Moa is annother joke) Dom v/s Anything, and finally MegaT v/s Raven (this is a closer match up). I Think i have decent skills and experiance (20 mil sp) and i think its a shame to have to resort to tech 2 ships, equipment and ammo to defeat a Gal pilot with half my sp and experiance just because he is in an overpowered Gal ship. Is this fair? Not at all. One ship, a single entry to the race's catalog and the great slavering Gallente hordes decend upon the forums crying "NERF! NERF!" By the way, what about Gallente V/s Amar? Annother broken matchup in my opinion.
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Karandor
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Posted - 2006.11.08 04:04:00 -
[74]
If a drake wants to kill anything it needs a web and a scrambler. That's 2 less extenders. If it wants to be able to catch anything (since good chance it will be webbed back) it needs an MWD or AB. Ok so suddenly that passive tank is down to 3 slots and drakes are now running missions.
The drake is heavy and slow. It can't catch anything. How the hell is it going to kill anything unless it has someone willing to be a tackle-bot. In gangs you're better off with ships that can fit DPS, tank AND scram/web/MWD not just tank, DPS and maybe a scram.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 04:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Garonis Edited by: Garonis on 08/11/2006 01:03:42 Im tired of all the Gallente whining about a ship that might not fall to their guns immediately. Gal ships are overpowered across the board as is, and can defeat most ships, especialy Caldari without breaking a sweat. Ref: Brutix v/s Ferrox (this is a joke), Enyo v/s Harpy, Thorax v/s Caracal (Moa is annother joke) Dom v/s Anything, and finally MegaT v/s Raven (this is a closer match up). I Think i have decent skills and experiance (20 mil sp) and i think its a shame to have to resort to tech 2 ships, equipment and ammo to defeat a Gal pilot with half my sp and experiance just because he is in an overpowered Gal ship. Is this fair? Not at all. One ship, a single entry to the race's catalog and the great slavering Gallente hordes decend upon the forums crying "NERF! NERF!" By the way, what about Gallente V/s Amar? Annother broken matchup in my opinion.
It's quite true that the Caldari suck a huge fat one when it comes to many of their ships.
Gallente do completely own the Caldari in most match ups ship vs ship.
Granted a lot of ships in EVE suck, Gallente included but still, to say somehow that Caldari are better off than Caldari is pretty stupid.. there's many matchups where the Caldari ship has no chance in hell of ever winning.
I don't see any NERF THE BRUTIX threads.. a Ferox indeed stands no real chance vs a Brutix 1v1 yet that's "ok". Drake turns out to be a good 1v1 tier2 battleship and all of a sudden the sky is falling, whatever.
I have no idea why the Caldari are the NY Yankees of EVE and everyone just loves to hate them and see them lose. It's kind of annoying, flying Caldari takes as many SP as any other race if you want to fly all the ships. Just because missiles are the best for level 4 missions doesn't make everyone who flies Caldari a newb, ok. ===================
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.08 04:39:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Garonis Thorax v/s Caracal (Moa is annother joke)
I've seen a Caracal take down a thorax in an up-close fight that ended in hull.
Not sure of the exact setups, but iirc, the Caracal had extenders and either TD or ECM drones (2 lights) on the thorax.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dopefish
As it is now the passive tank has the same shield per second boost as before the increase. With a larger shield buffer your tank can run for longer giving ships with low to medium dps the impression that the tank is unbreakable. It's not ofcourse, but the increased buffer allows your passive tank to run for longer and thus boosting more in total than with the old system.
Active tanking is unaffected and so is passive armor tanking, but passive shield tanking gets the benefit of a huge buffer and gets to keep its recharge.
Its not the recharge time on ships thats unbalancing though. It's the absence of a shield recharge penalty on extenders.
just my opinion.
Well I don't find that unbalancing though, the 1600mm plates gives alot more hp than the large shield extenders to compensate for this. To compare the two different modules:
1600mm T2 plate: TQ = 3360 hp and on SISI = 5376, diff = 2060
Large shield extender T2: TQ = 2100 hp and on SISi = 3360, diff = 1260
So for each plate you add over an extender you get 800 extra hp compared to TQ stats. I think this pretty much compensates for the extra minimal recharge rate you recieve.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:33:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
Originally by: Dopefish
As it is now the passive tank has the same shield per second boost as before the increase. With a larger shield buffer your tank can run for longer giving ships with low to medium dps the impression that the tank is unbreakable. It's not ofcourse, but the increased buffer allows your passive tank to run for longer and thus boosting more in total than with the old system.
Active tanking is unaffected and so is passive armor tanking, but passive shield tanking gets the benefit of a huge buffer and gets to keep its recharge.
Its not the recharge time on ships thats unbalancing though. It's the absence of a shield recharge penalty on extenders.
just my opinion.
Well I don't find that unbalancing though, the 1600mm plates gives alot more hp than the large shield extenders to compensate for this. To compare the two different modules:
1600mm T2 plate: TQ = 3360 hp and on SISI = 5376, diff = 2060
Large shield extender T2: TQ = 2100 hp and on SISi = 3360, diff = 1260
So for each plate you add over an extender you get 800 extra hp compared to TQ stats. I think this pretty much compensates for the extra minimal recharge rate you recieve.
bingo. ===================
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JoCool
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:51:00 -
[79]
The complaint and further whines based on the experience of the OP are ridiculous as the Drake was not using a real TQ setup.
On Sisi, most pilots, especially Caldari, change their vessels into champion ships. On TQ, those are worthless. _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Jinryu Nasake
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Posted - 2006.11.08 11:44:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Jinryu Nasake on 08/11/2006 11:48:23 Edited by: Jinryu Nasake on 08/11/2006 11:44:48 So let's give shield hardeners a Penalty of -20% on recharge rate instead of the signature radius penalty.
This sis uberwtfpwnz0r drake your all talking of would then have about 80% decrease in shield recharge rate, but small frigs would now have the ability to use a hp buffer without taking so much more damage from their increased signature radius. At that point i always considered the usage of Plates uber, because they only take away a ridiculous amount of speed.
That maybe would help make the use of extenders more sensible on small vessels as they are really harmed of signature issues but still avoid making pasive taking really uber.
Sounds nice for me. (I'm wondering why so many whine about ANY sisi issues withouteven posting any reliable fix or idea to help the devs. These posts are completely unneccessary and don't help balance the game in any kind of way.)
Problems? Questions? Suggestions?
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