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plastictree
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Posted - 2006.11.07 15:02:00 -
[1]
I've been playing caldari for a few months now, but I've started to like projectiles (after trying out a rifter) more than missiles because of gunnery's flexibility.
BUT, I've read that in Kali projectiles are going to be weak and make minmatar ships inferior to the other races. So, is it still worth specializing in minmatar ships?
Also, I play with a personal friend and was wondering if anyone could suggest some fun pvp duo's? or ships classes that compliment each other well. thanks.
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Kovacs Caprios
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.07 15:05:00 -
[2]
I will still be min specced....
What ships have you heard will be weak?
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Shinjuro
Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.11.07 15:19:00 -
[3]
Despite all the screaming and bickering.. every race is taking some sort of hit from Kali. I am almost 100% minnie spec'ed and won't even hesitate to keep it that way. In your case, You like howies, wait till after kali then re-try them out. If you still like them, I would say 100% go for it. They are quite fun. Alts rule the bizzy. |
Imhotep Khem
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 15:34:00 -
[4]
Our weak cap will be exascerbated by the increase in HP. Also our high initial damage artillery guns will be hurt. Helps our speed advantage though and will reduce effectiveness of EW or make it less automatic win/loose. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.11.07 15:41:00 -
[5]
Like stated before, all races are taking a hit in some way or another from kali but overall minmatar will still be a good race to play with. I am 100% minmatar specced and even if they were to be gimped to hell id still play matari. As for fun ships id say try out the jaguar , the hurricane when it comes out w Kali, Rupture etc etc....there is a badass matar ship for every class so id say try em all but for starters try to get into jaguar and have fun blowing **** up.
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:16:00 -
[6]
Minmatar get equally boosted and shafted in Kali, so there's no real change.
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar get equally boosted and shafted in Kali, so there's no real change.
How do Minmatar get boosted? All I see is the shaft. A 5% artillery damage boost means nothing when hitpoints have been increased 50%.
Bottom line: go Gallente or Caldari. Minmatar DPS will be insufficient in Kali since the hitpoint increase affects low DPS ships more than high DPS ships. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven
Thanks, CCP.
R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle. |
Benco97
Gallente Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:25:00 -
[8]
if you love howwies then stick with Minmatar, I forsee a Howwitzer boost in the medium range future. I am Gallente but fly minmatar because I love howwitzers, I am waiting for the touch of genious that is going to make howwitzers AWESOME in short fights but poor in long fights (Time, not distance) perhaps lower the ROF, increase tracking and add two zeros to the dmg modifier ^^
Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur) |
Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar get equally boosted and shafted in Kali, so there's no real change.
How do Minmatar get boosted? All I see is the shaft. A 5% artillery damage boost means nothing when hitpoints have been increased 50%.
Bottom line: go Gallente or Caldari. Minmatar DPS will be insufficient in Kali since the hitpoint increase affects low DPS ships more than high DPS ships.
1. Besides the Tempest, Minmatar DPS is not insufficient. Our DPS never falters unlike Amarr or Blasterships who are reliant on cap. With fights getting longer, Minmatar will be able to keep on shooting when the other races have run out of cap booster charges.
2. Minmatar is virtually the only race that can fit oversized plates on almost every ship due to the wonders of low tier autocannons. With the plate HP boost this becomes even more of an advantage.
3. From the looks of it, all ammo (not sure about cap charges) has had its volume halved on SISI. This means we can carry double the ammo around as before. Yes, it also means gallente can do the same, but they never had trouble with ammo to begin with.
4. Hurricane + Hail = win.
5. Barrage avoided the T2 ammo nerf.
6. Artillery are getting a slight damage mod increase. Stop moaning about artillery DPS, when you take into account resistances it's often better than 425mm Rail IIs on a Megathron.
7. With tracking disruptors looking like they are going to replace ECM as the mid-slot abuse module of choice, they will affect projectiles the least as Minmatar can use their speed to keep traversel down and ignore the optimal range penalty as AC optimal is tiny to begin with.
8. The Vagabond goes 4k/s with just a MWD II and 3 local hull inertia stabs (and also has 10k shields with the extender buff).
Minmatar very rarely gets nerfed or boosted directly - you have to look at all the changes happening to other ships and see where Minmatar fit in relation to the other 3 races.
Also, don't be afraid of Cerbs with Heavy Assaults - my Hurricane ripped them to shreds with Hail and no damage mods (I've still yet to find a Drake pilot with BC 5 to test it against, and the lag is aweful anyway). Even when the Cerb switched to Rage Heavy Assaults it died a very quick and painful death. Why? Oversized plates of course ;).
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
SengH
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:59:00 -
[10]
what the hell are you talking about boosted/nerfed equally. More hp = more time to get under your tracking and your screwed. Esp since artys have the worst tracking ingame. When your an arty user, nothing scares you more than frigs. ---------------------------------------- Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: plastictree I've been playing caldari for a few months now, but I've started to like projectiles (after trying out a rifter) more than missiles because of gunnery's flexibility.
BUT, I've read that in Kali projectiles are going to be weak and make minmatar ships inferior to the other races. So, is it still worth specializing in minmatar ships?
Also, I play with a personal friend and was wondering if anyone could suggest some fun pvp duo's? or ships classes that compliment each other well. thanks.
The WCS nerf in kali will kick Stababonds in the nards, but other than that Minmatar will still be fine. ALL t2 ammo is getting nerfed a bit, not just minmatar.
Bottom line is there will always be whines about how Race A is gimped compared to Race B because Race B can do something that Race A cant. What people dont understand is that the races are SUPPOSED to have stuff that they do differently. Thats what makes them.. well.. different. Each races ships are strong if used for what they were intended.
This signature space for rent |
xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar get equally boosted and shafted in Kali, so there's no real change.
How do Minmatar get boosted? All I see is the shaft. A 5% artillery damage boost means nothing when hitpoints have been increased 50%.
Bottom line: go Gallente or Caldari. Minmatar DPS will be insufficient in Kali since the hitpoint increase affects low DPS ships more than high DPS ships.
Every race is whining about how Kali is going to make them suck compared to the others.
Gallente say the 50% HP increase is going to screw us over because our blaster boats will run out of cap, and the drone boats cant rely on ECM to stay alive anymore due to ECM nerf.
Caldari say the T2 torp nerf screws them over, as well as the ECM nerf.
Minmatar say the stab nerf screws over the vagabond, and the HP boost hurts weapons like arty that rely on alpha strike damage
Amarr say... well they have always whined ever since the damage mod stacking penalty ruined the gankageddon. But they will probably have cap issues in the longer fights post HP boost, and the HP boost only further magnifies their damage issues when fighting anyone who tanks up EM or thermal.
Bottom line... everyones got something to ***** about, so its probably still going to be balanced.
This signature space for rent |
plastictree
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:32:00 -
[13]
Well, then it looks like I'll be training up minmatar. Right now I have caldari frig V and I'll probably train up minmatar frig V soon too to try out the jag.
What exactly is the ROLE of minmatar? as one poster stated.
And any suggestions on what ships CLASSES me and my friend could play to compliment each other for pvp.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar get equally boosted and shafted in Kali, so there's no real change.
All I see is the shaft.
Yes, yes you do.
PS : You need to go back to ravens.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Old Geeza on 07/11/2006 19:06:08 Hang on. Minmatar get shafted because frigs can some how get under their tracking easier than before? OMG WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED.
Stop sniping frigs and start fighting properly. Who are you, Ginger Magician?
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
BlackMoon Thrawn
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:45:00 -
[16]
Quote: The WCS nerf in kali will kick Stababonds in the nards
I predict alot of people wishing for stababonds when they see vagas with more speed and damage. The hitpoint boost isnt going to hurt either, the solo vaga pilot is going to have more margin for error in deciding to stick around for an engagemeant or not. He will, however, probobly need to resupply ammo more frequently. On the whole I dont see alot of specific minmatar nerfs in kali.
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SengH
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Old Geeza Edited by: Old Geeza on 07/11/2006 19:06:08 Hang on. Minmatar get shafted because frigs can some how get under their tracking easier than before? OMG WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED.
Stop sniping frigs and start fighting properly. Who are you, Ginger Magician?
Frigs are the ships that get you killed 90% of the time cus they are the ones with points. Lose the ability to put points on your targets and they start warping out(minus the lagfests). Therefore you take out their tacklers first. And lol you wont see me sniping, im waay more useful to my corp than being in another just another t2 tempest. ---------------------------------------- Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:20:00 -
[18]
The point was, if you are sniping without support then getting frigs near or on you is a fact of life, HP changes or not.
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
SengH
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Old Geeza The point was, if you are sniping without support then getting frigs near or on you is a fact of life, HP changes or not.
If your in a rohk and you had the same amount of skills as the average sniper tempest pilot, the frig would be dead long before it even gets within locking range. ---------------------------------------- Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Sabine Borgia
Amarr Antares Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.07 23:05:00 -
[20]
i fly a sleipnir and got nearby 6 secs rof using 720 mm and with plasma its 11 shots around 1 minute fire i think the ammo cap is to low compared to other ships with astarte i get 40 shoots antimater in the 250mm a rof at 3 seconds mean 120 secs of fire 2 minutes the dubble then the sleip and doign similar dmg
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.08 07:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Old Geeza The point was, if you are sniping without support then getting frigs near or on you is a fact of life, HP changes or not.
If your in a rohk and you had the same amount of skills as the average sniper tempest pilot, the frig would be dead long before it even gets within locking range.
... you figure the 6.9% better base tracking overcomes the additional tracking computer Tempest will be packing anyway (because it needs it for the range and Rokh might want to use some meds for shields)?
People, if there aren't any tracking bonuses, rails track about the same as artilleries. -- NMTZ forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.08 07:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Old Geeza 1. Besides the Tempest, Minmatar DPS is not insufficient. Our DPS never falters unlike Amarr or Blasterships who are reliant on cap. With fights getting longer, Minmatar will be able to keep on shooting when the other races have run out of cap booster charges.
If Tempest has insufficient damage, Mega is even worse. After the 5% increase, 1400mm Tempest outdamages a 425mm Mega by about 1.5%. At no cap use and better damage type, of course.
Worse tracking, admittedly, but the additional tracking a tracking comp gives compared to tracking enhancer does help there. -- NMTZ forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.08 07:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sabine Borgia i fly a sleipnir and got nearby 6 secs rof using 720 mm and with plasma its 11 shots around 1 minute fire i think the ammo cap is to low compared to other ships with astarte i get 40 shoots antimater in the 250mm a rof at 3 seconds mean 120 secs of fire 2 minutes the dubble then the sleip and doign similar dmg
Drop the rail cap use to 0 and you've got a deal. -- NMTZ forum |
SengH
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.08 08:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Old Geeza The point was, if you are sniping without support then getting frigs near or on you is a fact of life, HP changes or not.
If your in a rohk and you had the same amount of skills as the average sniper tempest pilot, the frig would be dead long before it even gets within locking range.
... you figure the 6.9% better base tracking overcomes the additional tracking computer Tempest will be packing anyway (because it needs it for the range and Rokh might want to use some meds for shields)?
People, if there aren't any tracking bonuses, rails track about the same as artilleries.
once you go out to 200km tracking doesn't really matter anymore. The'll need to be going about 7+km/s. The rohk achieves the 200km mark easily. The temp on the other hand is either using Carb L or tremor.... For the average non snake implanted gang boosted frig to try and cover the 200km distance is suicide vs the rohk. Easily achievable vs the temp though with a bit knowledge of how transversal works. ---------------------------------------- Back for a month cus Awu5 finished..... |
Mirasta
Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.08 09:01:00 -
[25]
Oh i dontthink there gimped at all. Im caldari and will be trining minmatar ASAP for the following reasons
Jag, Stilleto, Stabber, Hurricane, Nanophoon and ACtempests
All very good ships at what they do and 'Fun' to fly.
Of couse, You are now reading my sig. |
Sabine Borgia
Amarr Antares Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Sabine Borgia i fly a sleipnir and got nearby 6 secs rof using 720 mm and with plasma its 11 shots around 1 minute fire i think the ammo cap is to low compared to other ships with astarte i get 40 shoots antimater in the 250mm a rof at 3 seconds mean 120 secs of fire 2 minutes the dubble then the sleip and doign similar dmg
Drop the rail cap use to 0 and you've got a deal.
well juice is no prob for me on astarte but i cant change a thing at the 720mm 11 shots that is it not more not less i could reduce rof lol but ....
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.08 11:08:00 -
[27]
gallente and minmatar was most powerful pvp races in RMR.
with kali screwing up gallente the new ub3r are rising - Minmatar.
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Critta
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.08 14:04:00 -
[28]
MECTO, I wan't some of what you're smoking...
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Tristan J'ior
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Posted - 2006.11.08 14:21:00 -
[29]
A player who is good at what he does (be that pirating, missioning, pvp, etc) can make any ship look 'uber' or overpowered.
A player who is bad at what he does, can make any ship look worse and gimped.
Good players rarely talk about their own exploits or make forum posts about how awesome their ship is.
Bad players often complain, loudly and publicly, about how bad a race is or gimped a particluar ship is.
Eve is not perfect. The races themselves are not perfect. Everything can be improved, and an improvement to some is a total nerf to others (warp to 0, anyone).
All you can really hope for is that you find a ship you like to fly, and you enjoy flying it in it's intended style. And never be afraid to adapt to change.
Good luck to the op, and I hope he finds the best possible solution for him, and not 'everyone else.'
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.08 16:06:00 -
[30]
Minmatar have always been fun to fly and worth flying.
Now put the new inertial stabs on, oh... any ship. Namely the Phoon and the Vaga.
Minmatar wins. gg all, gg. ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
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