Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 21:32:00 -
[1]
Where 'warpspeed' stands for 'speed into warp' not 'speed in warp'. Just to clarify.
Anyway, here's an approximation of the improvement a single Local Hull IS provides
Agility * 0.82^2 = 0.6724 * agility 1 / 0.6724 = 1.4872 -> 48.72% improvement (And 41.41% improvement for the second)
If we factor the un-stacked first and the *0.85 stacked second IS together we get : 1 / 0.4851 = 2.0614 -> 106.14% improvement for two Inertia Stabilizers
For those not keeping track, you are now entering warp twice as fast with 2x Local Hull IS. Combined with a larger speed increase than even Nanos or Overdrives (haha) can provide - which is the reason I used 2x IS in this example, as the stacking penalty doesn't severely hit it yet.
The reason this boost is so huge, is that unlike damage mods this isn't one reduction in a figure and one increase - these are two reduced figures, and with pretty **** big bonuses no less. That is a maaaaaaaajor indicator of imbalance in comparison to other stacking nerfed mods - and particularly that this applys to one of the most valuable attributes of a ship.
Not just that, but the concept of a stronger agility mod in itself is flawed, I'm sorry. I like having my insanetacular 'phoon as much as the next guy (and trust me, 2x IS leave me enough mass to bump -_- ), but being able to enter warp near instantly is broken. Nanofibers alone let any ship of equal class enter warp before anyone other equal class ship has a chance to lock it and get a point on - inertia stabilizers basicly move this one class further, making anything but interceptors unable to catch Battleships (and even those are not very likely due to the activation delay) and making anything smaller than a battleship borderline invincible.
We've nerfed one travelmod now, and restricted it to traveling - but IS aren't just a combat mod, they double as a travel mod, as an escape-mod and generally throw lock time versus speed to warp balance out the window.
So can we just ditch the concept for now, revert them to the way they were or at least make the mass multiplier miniscule (ie 0.99 instead of 0.82) ? Please? :/
Addendum : Before this thread derails, I realize there is an overall balance problem with snares versus propulsion mods. This doesn't however address it - it only allows more people to avoid combat overall, which they'll be even more inclined to do with powerful propulsion jamming (webbers) still abundant and the impacts by proxy of the hp boost.
If we want to finally address webbers versus propulsion mod balance in favor of propulsion mods, fine by me. This just isn't it.
|
Dave Tehsulei
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 23:19:00 -
[2]
What he said , these mods needs to be looked at before they are released on TQ, we really dont need battleships and cruisers flying around with the agility of interceptors
stop the madness now !
|
Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 23:27:00 -
[3]
I got lost in the numbers, but first of all, has this been tested? what was the outcome? Second of all... I think there is a WCS nerf, so if this is true, why isn't it a good thing? Thirdly... isn't losing a few low slots to a bs fitting these mods, balance the fact of what he could put there? Finally... I think entering warp twice as fast is okay with me. Why is that a problem if ceptors are just as fast or faster already?
|
Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 23:41:00 -
[4]
I fit 4 of these to my claw and was able to warp faster than a pod, acclerate to full speed in under .5 second and go 7000m/s with a 1mn mwd II, acc ctrl 4, nav 5, and a 3% speed implant. My sig was only increased to 29 from 24 even with 4 fitted. I'm not saying that was under realistic contdtions but with 4 nanos I topped out at around 5300ish and it took alot longer to get to that speed.
Fitting just one of these on a vaga give a massive bonus to mwd effectiveness and makes an allready agile ship nearly as agile as a frig. It's great being Amarr ain't it?
|
Lord Violent
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 00:00:00 -
[5]
Yeah my battlecruiser chasing down and raping interceptors on sisi kind of brought me to the conclusion that these may be a little too good.
|
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 01:51:00 -
[6]
This is 'so not' a page 2 issue. And as for tested, was going to reply - but the 3rd and 4th reply seem to have anecdotal evidence covered.
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 03:04:00 -
[7]
Bump in the form of
Originally by: Cpt Abestos I fit 4 of these to my claw and was able to warp faster than a pod, acclerate to full speed in under .5 second and go 7000m/s with a 1mn mwd II, acc ctrl 4, nav 5, and a 3% speed implant. My sig was only increased to 29 from 24 even with 4 fitted. I'm not saying that was under realistic contdtions but with 4 nanos I topped out at around 5300ish and it took alot longer to get to that speed.
...
That's over the top. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 03:14:00 -
[8]
I can't wait to test them on my Crusader. It was allways too heavy to really make use of that high base speed with a MWD.
Due to balance it shouldn't be more effective to use only the inertias and no nanos! I would say, when you use 1 inertia + 1 nano and getting the optimal mix, it is balanced then.
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 03:36:00 -
[9]
Hurricane
6 x Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabalizer I Y-T8 MWD
Spaceship V Evasive V
LG Snake Alpha LG Snake Beta LG Snake Delta LG Snake Epsilon
CY-2 Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink MY-1
Half complete low-grade snakes... 2867.92867511 m/sec
180 turn at full speed = 4 seconds
Last Weeks Signature |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aeaus Hurricane
6 x Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabalizer I Y-T8 MWD
Spaceship V Evasive V
LG Snake Alpha LG Snake Beta LG Snake Delta LG Snake Epsilon
CY-2 Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink MY-1
Half complete low-grade snakes... 2867.92867511 m/sec
180 turn at full speed = 4 seconds
lol?
I wonder what a crane w/ mwd and 2-3 of these will do haha.
Because I said so...
|
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:44:00 -
[11]
Viator : 2352.43404451 m/sec Occator : 927.131023081 m/sec <- Small effect on this one, took 5.5 seconds to do a 180 at full speed though, so very agile.
Local Intertial (full lows) Named 10Mn MWD
I opted for no implants on this one.
Evasive IV Navigation V Spaceship V
I'm going to load a carrier up later with a few and pop a 100mn MWD on that to see that happens
Last Weeks Signature |
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:49:00 -
[12]
6 inertia are not that good...
generally best results are just with 2-3 of them
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aeaus on 08/11/2006 05:03:35 And to kill the Amarr Emperor...
Archon 3 x Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabalizer I 4 x Local Hull Nanofiber I Quad Lif Maximum Speed : 743.2800593 m/sec
Archon 2 x Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabalizer I 5 x Local Hull Nanofiber I Quad Lif Maximum Speed : 797.634860421 m/sec
ASC V Capital Ships III Spaceship V Evasive V
Snake Alpha Snake Beta Snake Delta Snake Epsilon Snake Gamma
CY-2 Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink MY-1
Last Weeks Signature |
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 15:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aeaus Edited by: Aeaus on 08/11/2006 05:29:39 It does appear that two inertia stabs are the best combination... http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Aeaus/yarricane.jpg (2 x intertia + 4 x nano)
The topspeed boosts aren't even that big an issue, but the acceleration definitely is. But yeah, even as far as topspeed goes you can get some nifty boosts (ballpark 20% more topspeed than all nanos).
|
Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 16:05:00 -
[15]
Someone test a Daredevil!
|
Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 16:11:00 -
[16]
Vagabond: now > 4500m/s without implants with only local hull inertial stabs in the lows.
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 16:12:00 -
[17]
i alredy see the dread that start to orbit around a frig
|
Spaced Skunk
Yesodic Nomads Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 11:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Spaced Skunk on 09/11/2006 11:50:14 Fitted 6 to a Hurricane, from entering warp to warping, took around 1.5 seconds.
Did 2000m/s with t2 MWD, accelerated to 1800m/s within 2 seconds.
The idea behind them is good, but, like nanofibers, they should have a HP penalty.
|
Dave Tehsulei
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:29:00 -
[19]
bump!
|
Mr Ninjaface
Minmatar Shurekin INC
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:37:00 -
[20]
You guys will go faster if you use a mix of stabilizers and nanos. I was hitting 3500 or so in my hurricane with 3 stabilizers and 3 nanos and a few speed rigs. MY thoughts on Kali |
|
Caldorous
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ath Amon 6 inertia are not that good...
generally best results are just with 2-3 of them
maybe because there is a hidden (or not so hidden) stacking penalty -----------------------------
|
Inairin
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:03:00 -
[22]
Someone do a 3 IS, rest faction overdrives and then a, perferably faction, 100mw microwarpdrive on a battlecruiser/command ship for me. If you can mix in some rigs further adding to the madness; do so.
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:13:00 -
[23]
I don't think there's a problem. You're sacrificing precious lowslots for just that kind of effects, each of those lows could have been some other dps/tank module, and these module have to be competitive with nanofibers in order to get used (instead of being the reprocessing fodder they have been). And it only helps with ab/mwd, not "cruising" speed. Oh, and there's a sig penalty, which may or may not matter to your ship setup.
Most ships are pretty sick in the agility-speed sector with 6 nanofibers, too.
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Spaced Skunk Edited by: Spaced Skunk on 09/11/2006 11:50:14 Fitted 6 to a Hurricane, from entering warp to warping, took around 1.5 seconds.
Did 2000m/s with t2 MWD, accelerated to 1800m/s within 2 seconds.
The idea behind them is good, but, like nanofibers, they should have a HP penalty.
Well, fit the same 6 nanofibers on your Hurricane, you'll also get impressive speed and acceleration (and significantly better non-MWD speed as a bonus). Also, with those 6 inertia stabs your sig will be a lot bigger, and unless you plan on keeping MWD on all the time, that sig *will* matter if you go against big ships.
Nanofiber "hp" penalty is a hull penalty, which usually doesn't matter one bit, the sig radius penalty is a lot worse in many cases. Not all, of course.
|
Vishnej
Demonic Retribution Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:26:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Vishnej on 10/11/2006 21:27:19 Simply put, nanofibers should have weak improvements on speed, mass, and agility at a major structure cost (call it -40%), while inertial stabilizers should have a major agility increase in exchange for significant powergrid and/or cap penalties.
Adding thrusters cannot reduce mass, by any stretch of non-newtonian physics.
|
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 12:24:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 11/11/2006 12:24:58 I believe that in the Master of Orion games, Inertia Stabilizers / Nullifiers were internal force fields of artificial gravity nature that compensated the inertia of mass. Thus the engines need to work less to accelerate the same mass, which is equal to accelerating less mass. So while thrusters don't work from a physics perspective, gravity fields would.
I could be wrong though.
|
Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
|
Posted - 2006.11.12 21:03:00 -
[27]
I have done some tests with the Crusader (good base speed, but with a high mass). I wanted to do some tests with AB and Cruiser/AF, but 5 Minutes after I started, a pre-Kali built was installed on the Testserver. :-/
Their boost to agility and speed (with a MWD/AB) is allways higher as with nanofibers. (the stacking penality is not strong enough)
number of "local hull conversion inertial stabilizers" in lows and max speed:
4 5709 +46,8% from 0 3 5490 +41,2% from 0 2 5067 +30,3% from 0 1 4477 +15,1% from 0 0 3888
number of "Mark I modified SS inertial stabilizers" in lows and max speed:
4 5420 +39,4% from 0 3 5239 +34,7% from 0 2 4888 +25,7% from 0 1 4392 +12,9% from 0 0 3888
----------------------------------------
1 local hull conversion inertial stabilizers 1 local hull conversion nanofiber structure => 4714 +21,2% 3888 with zero mods
less orbitspeed and agility
|
Adrian Devoid
|
Posted - 2006.11.12 22:52:00 -
[28]
Tested it out on the test server. Took my fleet Scorpion setup and switched the 2x1600mm plates for 2xlocal inertial stabs. Feels like a ship that may actually turn arround and warp out of a fleet battle. I've used nano's instead of plates before, and its nice, but on sisi those stabs are *way* better than nanos for this situation.
|
Rogue Clone
Assault Squadron
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 21:32:00 -
[29]
I really don't see this as a problem... seems like a nice boost to compliment the stabs nerf. This won't detract from quality combat like stabs did, and putting these on a ship is enough of a nerf to your setup to balance out the higher agility and speed. I like the new IS's and hope CCP leaves them alone...
Also, as my understanding of stacking penalties is non-existant. Could someone do the math and find out whether its more affective to have:
2 Local Hull Inertial Stabs and 1 Local Hull Nano
--or--
3 Local Hull Inertial Stabs?
-- CEO of Assault Squadron now recruiting PVP players, please contact in game |
Sunsets
The Knights of the New Republic Forces of Freedom
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 00:22:00 -
[30]
You should try a combo of local hull inertias and overdrives for speed/agility. The overdrives have a slight penalty but the inertias more than compensate I think.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |