Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 00:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Aeaus Hurricane
6 x Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabalizer I Y-T8 MWD
Spaceship V Evasive V
LG Snake Alpha LG Snake Beta LG Snake Delta LG Snake Epsilon
CY-2 Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink MY-1
Half complete low-grade snakes... 2867.92867511 m/sec
180 turn at full speed = 4 seconds
lol?
I wonder what a crane w/ mwd and 2-3 of these will do haha.
crane?
how about a prowler?
that thing handles almost like a friggin' stabber. with nanos it's a "ZOMG WOOOSH!". imagine the thing with the inertia thingys... -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Dave Tehsulei
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.19 11:50:00 -
[32]
Page 9 :/
hello !
|
Mikelio Raijan
Sulithus
|
Posted - 2006.11.19 12:31:00 -
[33]
We got a geddon to go well over 10km/s without a Sleip in gang speed boosting it, cant wait for those 10km/s+ Vagas. \o/
|
Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 03:04:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Crellion on 20/11/2006 03:05:45
Originally by: Mikelio Raijan We got a geddon to go well over 10km/s without a Sleip in gang speed boosting it, cant wait for those 10km/s+ Vagas. \o/
On the + side if the Vaga is doing 10km/s and your Cerb/Ishtar/Curse is doing 5km/s (and he cant afford to come in web range) his guns shouldnt be hitting you all that much...Especially Cruse v Vaga with good missle skills I think I see some definite potential there...If his mwd dies but you are still orbitting at 5km/s but his guns and tracking I believe you might here the first Vaga piloty in history say: "uber speed sux" Edit: my typing in this post is so awfull I am not going to bother...typing sounds 4tw :| Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 05:12:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 20/11/2006 05:12:41 Bonuses on Singularity have changed to 15% mass and 15% agility (from 18/18).
0.85 * 0.85 *0.85 * 0.8725 = 0.5359 (86.6% faster into warp)
The good news : Somebody might have read this, and this might have been a conscious balance decision.
The bad news : This leaves 2x IS at 86.6% faster into warp, versus 48.7% of Nanofibers. All the while maintaining higher topspeeds on everything except ships with base speeds lower than ~150.
Suggestion : Rethink propulsion versus propulsion jamming balance (and eventually aggression, but that's OT) to allow for reasonably powerful propulsion modules all around and less super-modules/superstacks. With the intent of making propulsion mods not the realm solely of overstacked ships (In Kali : Snakes, Shaqil, MY-2, Zor, Rigs, Booster, 5x Domination Nanofiber, 2x Local Hull IS, Mindlink Sleipnir).
That basicly means, disallow webber stacking (strongest takes precedence, no exceptions), possibly introduce size-based webbers (higher fitting requirements for stronger webbers) and compensating the Rapier/Huginn to make up for it. And also halving the MWD capacitor penalty (12.5%), providing a smaller signature increase for 10/100MNs (350/300% base, respectively).
Not all these things may need to happen, but it's a fairly conservative estimate of what should really happen to in-grid propulsion mods. That alone would go much further towards prolonging combat than any amount of hitpoint increases ever will, while at the same time increasing the quality of said combat by making it more involved for all partys.
@Crellion : That's already the way it works for Curse vs Vagabond, except that being at the edge of falloff is perfectly sufficient. It of course gets worse if it's a damp or TD (gasp) Curse, at which point you're practically invincible unless you're superbad. 800mm, nano-less Curse currently hits about 1.7km/s, so we're talking about 2.4km with LG Snakes.
Infact, since the speed-gap would increase, it would become easier to leave Disruptor range.
|
Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 05:20:00 -
[36]
yup Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Rehen
Sulithus
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:51:00 -
[37]
Tux Im not sure if you are meaning for this or not but on kali at this moment i can fly around in my geddon at speeds of 16.5k/sec + probaly could get 1 going faster just seems too be a bit odd that i will be able too do this on tq if this patch is live soon. (I know alot of people wont be able too but i see anybody being able too do this as wrong). This is with a command ships bonuses but still dosent change that the ship can do the speed.
|
Aenigma
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:21:00 -
[38]
There's some kind of stacking penalty though. It's not 0.85*0.85*0.85 for three of them.
|
West Allis
Minmatar Cornerstone Unlimited
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:50:00 -
[39]
I like the modification, in combination with the nerf to WCS. If a person suddenly finds themself in a hostile situation (either an enemy warped in on them, or they warped somewhere they shouldn't have), then they have a few precious seconds to decide to warp out. If they fail to warp out, then they are stuck because they will no longer have WCS.
In today's world you think, "Well, I'll see how this goes." knowing that you can probably warp away if you get in trouble because you have WCS fitted.
The WCS nerf forces a commitment. If you decide to fight, then you are committed to that fight. The IS improvement gives you the ability to escape *before* you commit to the fight, and I think that's important. This helps make PvP more consensual for the players who are paying attention... and this is, IMO, a "good thing".
|
Herculite
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:42:00 -
[40]
/signed
This is another obvious issue that shouldn't have even gotten this far on sisi.
|
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 13:12:00 -
[41]
Could someone please post some data for a ship with various numbers of these modules fitted, so we can work out what the stacking penalty for mass reduction is? Ideally, please fit a plate while testing so we can check how the mass addition penalty is affected.
Since I'm not on Singularity, I don't know how these modules work- do they (a) visibly change the mass attributes of the ship, armour and ab/mwd themselves, or do they (b) only change mass in the context of working out top speed?
If (a), then the mass attributes of your ship and its relevant modules while the ship is active are lower than when it is not active and we can work out the stacking penalty directly.
If (b), then mass appears the same with Inertia Stabilisers fitted and the stacking penalty has to be worked out via the top speed formula, and more data (or a clarification from a developer ) are needed:
Number of 15% Inertia Stabilizers fittedShip massArmour mass (if present)Type of afterburner/microwarpdrive (i.e. 1mn, 10mn or 100mn)Max. velocity bonus for said afterburner/microwarpdrive (as listed in the attributes tab of the module info when fitted to the ship, undocked)Top speed with mwd/ab active (from the attributes tab of the ship info)Top speed without the ab/mwd active
This will be enough to work out the stacking penalty via the formula for top speed, since between the last three items all the other (numerous!) effects on speed or ab/mwd effectiveness are taken into account. ---------- An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 16:19:00 -
[42]
Mass is directly modified (visible in the stats block) agility I would assume the same, but it's a hidden stat.
Given that mass gave me a nice even number with one inertial stab fitted, and a lot of decimal places with 2 fitted, I'd assume they have stacking penalty.
However a few of these, especially with the mass and agility rigs fitted makes a battlecruiser handle quite nicely. I tried a hurricane, and it was about 4 seconds to 180 and reach max speed on MWD. Rather fun, but might count as a bit extreme. Then again, they're not damage mods nor tank I'm fitting in the lows, so it might not.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:33:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 21/11/2006 20:36:21 From Gordon Red's Crusader data back on page 1 of this thread, and these assumptions:
Navigation IVAcceleration Control IIINo implants or gang bonusest2 1mn mwd15% base mass reduction for each IS used
, it looks as though the following stacking penalty, or something like it, applies:
1st IS: 100% effect2nd: 87% effect3rd: 57%4th: 28% This is numerically in line with other stacking penalties, but not quite as neat as I'd have hoped. ---------- An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
R Dan
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 02:51:00 -
[44]
to the folks that dont see the problem with this:
I had a dominix run away from my gang yesterday... I'd got 2 scram frigates on the other side of the gate (incase he had BM's) ready to scram him.
He did have BM's but had entered warp before they both could get points on him. They said it took less than 4 seconds to go from cloaked to warped. And this is on TQ!
With BM's and that ammount of turn / speed (later he ran back through a gate and the momentum he'd gathered from MWD was enough to get him in jump range) he was basically invulnerable to anything other than a squad with a dictor....
This IS milarky coupled with the warp to 0 (ie a BM to everywhere) will mean that you will ALWAYS need a dictor (or more) to trap anyone....
I assume this domi had a number of nanofibers fitted. so after patch it will just be a number of IS and he will be even quicker at the escape
I will save you, but make sure you bring beer - Wrangler and cAKe - Imaran |
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 08:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Aenigma There's some kind of stacking penalty though. It's not 0.85*0.85*0.85 for three of them.
That's 1.5 of them that you have there. Remember they give two bonuses.
To clarify : Somebody claimed to have verified via logserver that agility isn't stacking penalized, yet mass is. I'll look into it myself later, but for the above that was assumed true. In the first post both are assumed true. Since in both cases we're only talking a 0.85 stacking modifier due to only using two mods, the difference is negligible and I didn't mention the switch.
The second set of numbers is 2x IS with the stacking penalty applied only to mass.
If you want to assume both stack : 0.85 * 0.85 * 0.8725 * 0.8725 = 0.55 (81.8% increase in agility)
Hope that satisfies. Anyway, agility mods are already as powerful as they should reasonably ever be with Nanofibers - simply because IS are currently pointless does not justify introducing something gamebreaking such as this.
For those that missed it, in a nutshell : Inertial Stabs are gamebreakers because they buff travelmods even further, from current nigh invincibility as well as doubling as a combat mod by boosting prop modded topspeed more than nanofibers - and disproportionally more on faster ships, further increasing the dramatic cleft between the nanoed-up pirate/shaqil/zor's mobile and everyone else.
|
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 08:37:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 23/11/2006 08:38:25
Originally by: West Allis
The WCS nerf forces a commitment. If you decide to fight, then you are committed to that fight. The IS improvement gives you the ability to escape *before* you commit to the fight, and I think that's important. This helps make PvP more consensual for the players who are paying attention... and this is, IMO, a "good thing".
Making PvP more consentual is both a) bad and b) an oxymoron. By making it 'more consentual' you see more of the type only the aggressor agrees to, by evading combat until he finds the least consentual, most helpless target (and encouraging everyone else to do the same, as seeking out aggressors is pointless as they can evade indefinitely).
An essential part of actions having consequences is that PvP needs to be somewhat equally non-consentual for everyone, whether predator or prey. As it stands, and even more so with IS, the advantage lies with the predator dramatically as he can just evade engagement until it is impossible to lose. Which is already basicly the face of fleet and gang warfare, but that's a topic for another thread.
|
Dave Tehsulei
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 15:13:00 -
[47]
come on devs, not long left to stop the madness !
please ?
|
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 10:34:00 -
[48]
This thread warps to the back of the forum incredibly fast. Let's not let it.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 11:01:00 -
[49]
How can people NOT be bugged by this?
Kali is really WTFSOLOPWNING game balance... you know, not that vagas and ecm really did it any wonders in the first place. But now EVERYONE can have the agility of a vaga!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Ronja Mistysdottir
Norsk Gruvedrift
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 13:52:00 -
[50]
You guys DID see them HUGE warpbubbles, right? wasn't they like, 45km or something?
Put up one HUGE bubble, and have some ship with dual webbers make pancakes of the fast ships.
There are warpbubbles, interdictors.. what else is needed to ruin the day of camp-busters?
|
|
Tadis
Gallente 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 16:14:00 -
[51]
Quite simply a rediculous move.
Review and change please! ___________________________________
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 16:26:00 -
[52]
Ships that can travel stupidly fast were around years back (dual MWD scorps, anyone?), identified as a problem, and fixed without futher ado.
What gives with undoing that? Lets not have a big step back........ -----------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |