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Horak Thor
Mutiny Ahoy The Periphery
242
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Posted - 2015.05.07 12:33:11 -
[1] - Quote
As a new player i think the hardest hurdle to get over is the strange (in relation to other MMOs) system ccp has. No XP etc which means as a new player starting the game there is always going to be a large number of things you cant do when first starting, which for 95% of people seems to be why they leave.
If CCP can implement SP rewards for completed opportunities, maybe 1 mil total for all opportunities. it'll push people into trying out all parts of the game while giving an easier transition from other MMO XP systems to the CCP SP system.
It should also give the greatest possibility of hooking people long term, if the opportunities cover all possible aspects of eve to try, it will give a road map for people to initially follow. As great as this sandbox is it can be massively daunting for a new guy trying to find out how to have fun (it took me 2 years of dipping my toe in to finally find my calling of pvp).
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1130
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Posted - 2015.05.07 12:38:15 -
[2] - Quote
I'd suggest putting this proposal into the sticky SP thread above to keep all the ideas and feedback in one place. |
Horak Thor
Mutiny Ahoy The Periphery
242
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Posted - 2015.05.07 12:55:11 -
[3] - Quote
thats specific to buying/remapping though it seems.
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
342
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Posted - 2015.05.07 14:03:08 -
[4] - Quote
Great idea man.
It took me about a year and a half to finally start pvping....which is the best part of the game IMO.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 14:24:41 -
[5] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Great idea man.
It took me about a year and a half to finally start pvping....which is the best part of the game IMO.
WHich has more to do with how new players are introduced to the game than it does with their skills. You can be PvPing in an hour - literally an hour. You'll die a lot, but there's no reason whatsoever to have to wait a year.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 14:56:27 -
[6] - Quote
I'd proposed the same idea in the Dev blog thread - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5694203#post5694203
But it seems people are against even 100k SP extra.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:00:04 -
[7] - Quote
Back in my day we walked up hill in the snow to school both ways. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:02:57 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Back in my day we walked up hill in the snow to school both ways.
Cute, and I had to train millions SP in Learning Skills in order to have a future in Eve back in the day.
This would be a Qualify of Life improvement for new players, but could also proliferate the use of gank/disposable alts even more.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1131
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:07:15 -
[9] - Quote
I had the cerebral accelerator that lasted 35 days when I joined, not sure if this was from an offer though. If so then it should be made standard as this accelerates training nicely for new players but still teaches them to use the skill queue properly
Other than that the current system is fine to me. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:07:42 -
[10] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Back in my day we walked up hill in the snow to school both ways. Cute, and I had to train millions of Learning Skills in SP in order to have a future in Eve back in the day. This would be a Qualify of Life improvement for new players, could proliferate the use of gank/disposable alts even more tho.
Oh you have me the wrong way! I totally agree that an SP bonus for new players completing opportunities would both be a good way to introduce them to activities in eve but also get them past the "I can only fly sh*t-fit frigates" phase, or at least help a little.
I was just mimicking some of the replies I can just see incoming.. |
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:08:51 -
[11] - Quote
An increase in training time is not the same as an unallocated SP reward.
Having even a Rank 1 skill go from Level 3 to 4, or half-way to level 5 *for free* feels warm inside.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1131
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:14:12 -
[12] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I had the cerebral accelerator that lasted 35 days when I joined, not sure if this was from an offer though. If so then it should be made standard as this accelerates training nicely for new players but still teaches them to use the skill queue properly
An increase in SP training amount is not the same as an unallocated SP reward. Having even a Rank 1 skill go from Level 3 to 4, or half-way to level 5 *for free* feels warm inside.
The problem here is that if you do it for 1 mil SP people will start complaining that it should be 2 mil SP and so on. It teaches the new player nothing about the skill queue and indeed even misleads them as to how it works and must be managed. That's why I would support the accelerator being standard for new players (also teaches them about boosters/implants) but against anything giving free SP. Managing expectations and all that... |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:19:12 -
[13] - Quote
Why would people complain about free stuff? Let them.
This is a different concept and nothing to be built on - just a QoL and Cool factor rolled into one, and as Horak Thor mentioned, it also gives incentive to go forth, explore and learn - very important bit.
People don't like dead numbers very much, especially this generation.
P.S. THE NUMBERS ARE ALWAYS ALIVE.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1131
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:21:55 -
[14] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Why would people complain about free stuff? Let them. ...
They would complain that it's not enough, you know how people are these days! |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:25:03 -
[15] - Quote
Let them.
As Horak Thor has mentioned,
Horak Thor wrote: If CCP can implement SP rewards for completed opportunities, maybe 1 mil total for all opportunities. it'll push people into trying out all parts of the game
This is very, very important part - incentive to go forth, explore and learn about EvE.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1131
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:33:09 -
[16] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Let them. As Horak Thor has mentioned, Horak Thor wrote: If CCP can implement SP rewards for completed opportunities, maybe 1 mil total for all opportunities. it'll push people into trying out all parts of the game
This is very, very important part - incentive to go forth, explore and learn about EvE.
People will only learn about the parts of eve that interest them and to be honest the minimal SP this would give you in manufacture, PI etc would not be enough to get a real feel for it. Indeed it could be off putting as you would get a false feeling that such activities were pointless as they didn't give a good return. No way would you even get to touch invention etc.
The accelerator was better as I got the million SP in whatever I chose to train rather than being forced to run all careers to get it. This would be much more valuable to a new player focusing on PvP for instance, or in my case mining and PI initially. It also teaches the new player how the skill queue works which is valuable knowledge. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7951
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:56:15 -
[17] - Quote
The Skillpoint System and You
I do not support this idea.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
631
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Posted - 2015.05.07 16:02:55 -
[18] - Quote
I too want 1 million free SP for each character.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
539
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Posted - 2015.05.07 16:28:06 -
[19] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:I too want 1 million free SP for each character.
At the time when Achura were the seks, you could create a char with around 800k starting SP thru specific background/corporation choices AFAIR.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Horak Thor
Mutiny Ahoy The Periphery
243
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Posted - 2015.05.07 17:13:04 -
[20] - Quote
The main principle of this proposition is giving people a clear and concise path to follow when starting in eve, with a small reward for doing so which would help bridge the gap.
At the minute people join the game and the vast majority don't give the game a real chance because you get into the game, have limited skills which limit your content options, to get skills you have to inject and train skills which means that initially eve isn't really that fun.
You could graph the fun had in eve with time(or SP) and it would be a steadily increasing curve (and then slope once you reach the grand stage of bittervet). The SP system is a great system but a terrible system for recruiting.
CCP should hybridize the early stages of gameplay so people, using the opportunities system, could go out and proactively earn SP, whilst playing the game and having fun.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
775
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:10:29 -
[21] - Quote
Agreed
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
357
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:18:16 -
[22] - Quote
CCP has said many times they SPECIFICALLY DO NOT WANT to set up the "do stuff get something" act-reward loop, and the entire opportunities system is specifically designed to avoid doing that. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1131
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:56:22 -
[23] - Quote
Horak Thor wrote:
My point is in any other game you have to actively gain XP to progress, Eve on the face of it, has you waiting a specific amount of time with no effort needed to skill up. this doesn't engage people.
Look at it this way, Eve has you earning 80% roughly of your xp per day even when not logged in (assuming you play 5 hours per day). No need to grind, just learn how to use your new sills properly whilst more new skills are training. A genuinely new player wouldn't have the player knowledge or ISK to make use of e.g. an Assault Frigate even if they were given the SP for free (and they wouldn't really understand which skills to train to what level first to get maximum benefit anyway).
The time taken to train player skills serves 2 purposes, firstly the sense of progress and achievement and secondly it makes you learn how to make use of the new skills you've just gained whilst waiting. |
Horak Thor
Mutiny Ahoy The Periphery
243
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:26:57 -
[24] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Horak Thor wrote:
My point is in any other game you have to actively gain XP to progress, Eve on the face of it, has you waiting a specific amount of time with no effort needed to skill up. this doesn't engage people.
Look at it this way, Eve has you earning 80% roughly of your xp per day even when not logged in (assuming you play 5 hours per day). No need to grind, just learn how to use your new sills properly whilst more new skills are training. A genuinely new player wouldn't have the player knowledge or ISK to make use of e.g. an Assault Frigate even if they were given the SP for free (and they wouldn't really understand which skills to train to what level first to get maximum benefit anyway). The time taken to train player skills serves 2 purposes, firstly the sense of progress and achievement and secondly it makes you learn how to make use of the new skills you've just gained whilst waiting.
The primary point is about retention, not free skillpoints. Maybe i didn't make that point clear enough.
The free skill points just means people will actually follow the opportunities system.
Join a corp, get 10k SP, actually chat to some people = retention. Kill a player, get 10k SP, wow i like PVP = retention.
No other game out there is like eve or uses a system like eve. Thats why it struggles with retention. If you can apply an early tick list incentive that people will actually follow, you can retain more people, well hopefully.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1135
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:48:07 -
[25] - Quote
Horak Thor wrote: No other game out there is like eve or uses a system like eve. Thats why it struggles with retention. If you can apply an early tick list incentive that people will actually follow, you can retain more people, well hopefully.
I think that the retention issue is simply down to people liking or not liking the game, not the SP system itself. A player can effectively do any of the basic careers in rapid order with minimal training. The million SP split across all the careers would add very little to what a player can actually do in each career as it would still be a small increase across the board. Better to give the accelerant in this case, still effectively 'free' SP but the player has to make choices about where they go and can chose to spread bet them over many careers or focus on one or two to get into them more rapidly.
I really don't think that retention is down to the skill points mechanic. Or PvP, ganking,mining, missioning, etc etc. It is purely down to the basic gameplay and you either like spaceships/scifi settings that take some thought and planning or you don't |
Madd Adda
84
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:06:45 -
[26] - Quote
Horak Thor wrote:
The primary point is about retention, not free skillpoints. Maybe i didn't make that point clear enough.
The free skill points just means people will actually follow the opportunities system.
Join a corp, get 10k SP, actually chat to some people = retention. Kill a player, get 10k SP, wow i like PVP = retention.
No other game out there is like eve or uses a system like eve. Thats why it struggles with retention. If you can apply an early tick list incentive that people will actually follow, you can retain more people, well hopefully.
"The free skill points just means people will actually follow the opportunities system." yeah that's what we need, a skinner box style game mechanic that forces players to do it just for the reward, just like what other MMOs use to get their players to stay.
"No other game out there is like eve or uses a system like eve. Thats why it struggles with retention." that's not right, it's the amount of time needed to get over the infamous learning curve that Eve has. I have decent SP sunk in PVP but i still suck hard at it, i know that no amount of SP will change that until i practice in a ship.
also even if they were to give out SP it should only be 100-1000 units at a time rather than 10k
Carebear extraordinaire
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Horak Thor
Mutiny Ahoy The Periphery
243
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:12:28 -
[27] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Horak Thor wrote: No other game out there is like eve or uses a system like eve. Thats why it struggles with retention. If you can apply an early tick list incentive that people will actually follow, you can retain more people, well hopefully.
I think that the retention issue is simply down to people liking or not liking the game, not the SP system itself. A player can effectively do any of the basic careers in rapid order with minimal training. The million SP split across all the careers would add very little to what a player can actually do in each career as it would still be a small increase across the board. Better to give the accelerant in this case, still effectively 'free' SP but the player has to make choices about where they go and can chose to spread bet them over many careers or focus on one or two to get into them more rapidly. I really don't think that retention is down to the skill points mechanic. Or PvP, ganking,mining, missioning, etc etc. It is purely down to the basic gameplay and you either like spaceships/scifi settings that take some thought and planning or you don't
Everyone has a different experience when they play eve i guess. my personal experience when i first started, i quit rejoined, quit rejoined etc etc over 2 years until i finally joined a decent PVP corp which i found my complete luck. A system such as a "a skinner box style game mechanic that forces players to do it just for the reward" would have retained me personally, until i found my place.
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Madd Adda
84
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:24:59 -
[28] - Quote
Horak Thor wrote:
Everyone has a different experience when they play eve i guess. my personal experience when i first started, i quit rejoined, quit rejoined etc etc over 2 years until i finally joined a decent PVP corp which i found my complete luck. A system such as a "a skinner box style game mechanic that forces players to do it just for the reward" would have retained me personally, until i found my place.
you're retained now, you kept coming back despite quitting, i don't see the issue here.
Playing the game should be its own reward, the SP is just to have something to work towards, plus it it's a timesink.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
163
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:27:04 -
[29] - Quote
So current SP system got nothing to do with your past.bad luck in finding a good group of people you joined only 2 years after your day one. Actually you could start shooting other pilots in you rookie ship. But it's doubtfull that 1m given you after a week of grinding Opportunities makes you doing better. 1m SP is just an opportunity to be able to use mods and ships but got nothing to do with real knowledge of game mechanics. |
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
52
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:41:26 -
[30] - Quote
Horak Thor wrote: My point is in any other game you have to actively gain XP to progress, Eve on the face of it, has you waiting a specific amount of time with no effort needed to skill up. this doesn't engage people.
Yeah, I know... what a great game.
We don't have to play with people whom we don't wish to engage with.
(Frees up your time to actually explore and experience the unique wonders which are the EVE Universe.)
Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne
Déan gáire...Tiocfaidh ár lá
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