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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
664
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Posted - 2015.05.11 13:07:17 -
[91] - Quote
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:I understand that a speedy 10mn missile lobbing dessie would be overpowered, but 160 is beyond cruiser slow. Every cruiser in the game is literally faster than it by quite a bit and even 1 CBC (the Hurricane at 165m/s) is faster than it. Surely it doesn't need to be THAT slow. I mean this thing is about 50% slower than a Corax. What is its role/niche exactly? We already have POS missile turrets.
160 x 1.25 = 200m/s with Navigation V.
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Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc. Lasers Are Magic
24
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Posted - 2015.05.11 13:33:37 -
[92] - Quote
Please tell me that 160 base speed is a typo. The machariel base speed is faster than this ship. When you say this ship will handle like a slow cruiser out of prop mode I think you left out the prefix "battle". This ship should be able to reach interdictor speeds while in prop mode, which would be in the 2300 range for a microwarpdrive fit.
Six midslots is also ridiculous. We already know how silly the hawk is with 5 mid slots.
This ship will surely be a menace in any sort of 1v1 brawling scenario, but people will also know that and blob it like crazy as it has no real means of escaping from a fight. I feel that this ship is the exact opposite of what a t3 is supposed to be. It is not flexible at all. It is a dumb shield brick, with potential for fleet action due to a large shield buffer. I was honestly expecting something a little more innovative for this ship.
Like many people I am disappointed with this current proposal for this ship, but I am not surprised with the design. The development cycle is relatively predictable with strong ships followed by weak ones and vice versa. Just make sure to tone down that ridiculous triple tank bonus that you guys proposed for the hecate at fanfest before it comes out.
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Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
527
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:00:48 -
[93] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Guys.. its a missile a boat. It doesn't need to be as fast as a svipul or confessor. Have we not learned what fast ships and missiles do? Look at the garmur/orthrus, those 2 ships have been a cancer on PvP since their introduction.
It has no tracking to contend with. And it will have insane acceleration.. so if its fit with a 1mn MWD, it will still have the acceleration to slingshot most ships. Plus, a 66% bonus to missile velocity will mean even the kiters can't kite it when its fit with LML. Possible you could even get enough range for rockets to hit out to point range with a rig or 2.
Why do you think I want it to go faster? |
erg cz
Tribal Core
244
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:17:21 -
[94] - Quote
It is a perfect Caldari ship. CCP please do not buff it. Players please stop whine or they will buff it. 10 effective missile is must have and ship is so nice, that everyone and his grandma will fly it.
Now serios... I am very, very much afraid what CCP will do with Hecate now... :( |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1779
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:33:56 -
[95] - Quote
Any of you fitting brain can tell what it looks like if you take some logi support for granted since it seems to fall around the speed of logi frigs or maybe T1 cruisers? |
Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
528
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:36:07 -
[96] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Any of you fitting brain can tell what it looks like if you take some logi support for granted since it seems to fall around the speed of logi frigs or maybe T1 cruisers? Assuming the fitting space isn't as bad as I'm dreading it could be, the jackdaw would be hilarious with bantam backup. |
Edward Olmops
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
308
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:37:05 -
[97] - Quote
I don't think that the PG is too low. Slightly disencouraging 10MN ABs is certainly not bad. 5 LM launchers take just 35 MW, add a MWD for 15 and there is still room. Only if you want to fit a Medium Extender, a dual Prop or the 10MN AB you will run into trouble.
I think this ship is definitely promising. It just fills a slightly different role than the other 2 T3Ds. But that's what makes EVE interesting, isn't it?
And while we are at it: PLEASE buff the Corax (power grid, eventually damage). |
Soldarius
Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
1272
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Posted - 2015.05.11 15:00:56 -
[98] - Quote
Ao Kishuba wrote:Thank you for removing the kinetic damage lock shown on earlier stats.
Now just to remove it from the rest of the Caldari ships, and we'll be getting somewhere...
edit: seriously though please remove the kinetic lock. Caldari is the only of the four races with no selectable damage type for a main weapon.
Minmatar get both projectiles and missiles, with no damage locks on any.
Gallente get drones, which can do any type of damage.
Amarr also have bonused drone ships, and a few Khanid missile ships with no damage locks.
Caldari have... kinetic and thermal, for the most part, with only a few exceptions (mostly battleships and others which are rarely used, though I will concede the Caracal is popular. Gratz, Caldari have one popular missile boat). Why is it that the Caldari, the race who are supposed to be all about missiles, have the worst missile boats?
Rails are locked at 55% kinetic and 45% thermal. Blaster are locked at 55% Thermal and 45% kinetic. Lasers are mostly EM with some thermal. So that covers 50% of Caldari, 50% of Gallente, and most of Amarr ships.
Also, Caldari have the best missile boats. Its just that they are also shield ships. And shields generally are less desirable than armor for pvp. So we (TEST) see less of them.
That being said, I am also glad to see the Jackdaw is not locked into kinetic. I see the Jackdaw being used similarly to the Confessor, since it gets all its damage bonuses from the base hull bonuses and not from its modes. Meanwhile its modes grant either a useful range bonus or two useful tanking bonuses. This should make it a tough nugget at close range. With 6 mid slots, an HP bonus, a resist bonus, and a sig bonus, it should be an active tanking beast.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Solj RichPopolous
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
125
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Posted - 2015.05.11 15:36:49 -
[99] - Quote
Altrue wrote:The signature radius worries me, especially given that it won't be able to fit an oversized AB given both the low base speed and incredibly low PWG. So it will almost certainly be an MWD, which is rather sad given that an agility bonus really has an impact on 10mn ABs.
I will find a way to 10MN AB it or I won't have one simple as that. Fitting a MWD is just downright suicidal. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10939
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Posted - 2015.05.11 15:40:42 -
[100] - Quote
Ima gonna rat with it. |
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Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
90
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Posted - 2015.05.11 15:42:17 -
[101] - Quote
The base speed doesn't make any sense.
Jackdaw: 160 ms |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
543
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Posted - 2015.05.11 15:53:02 -
[102] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lev Ironwill wrote:afkalt wrote:If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.
I say this because it was mooted previously. This is what I would like to know as well, lasers and projectiles were both addressed with their respective T3D's so will missiles be getting a look with the Jackdaw? I would like to be exited for this new ship, I should be, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up about a missile ship being more than niche. No, because that might possibly mean that Caldari would get buffed. Pretty sure that it's in the rules somewhere that they aren't allowed to buff Caldari.
Recent excavations in Iceland revealed the existence of a small clay tablet, thought to date back to the first settlers on the island. Once it was translated, it was found to contain the following, cryptic, message.
Thou shalt not buff Caldari. Ever.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Lura Zara
Worlds Without Boundaries Special Forces
7
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Posted - 2015.05.11 16:01:14 -
[103] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ima gonna rat with it.
I actually was going to do the same, Its a gorgeous looking PVE ship, Despite everything in this thread being about PVP so far. I'm betting i could make mine as is run a Haven/Sanctum.
Maybe not the best isk/hour but it would be fun! |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
543
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Posted - 2015.05.11 16:05:40 -
[104] - Quote
I'm liking it.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Solj RichPopolous
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
125
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Posted - 2015.05.11 16:08:56 -
[105] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ima gonna rat with it.
Seems thats what it was made for honestly cause this:
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements
Too slow and limited for PVP use. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
296
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Posted - 2015.05.11 16:45:19 -
[106] - Quote
I'm seeing this as an even more tanky fleet-capable sniper. Shall be interesting to see if this will beat my fessor's 800:3 efficiency ratio |
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
151
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Posted - 2015.05.11 18:08:07 -
[107] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:I'm seeing this as an even more tanky fleet-capable sniper.
220dps with faction light missiles and a bcu is so much lower than the other two, and even lower than most t1 destroyers no speed to keep range so you won't be sniping for long delayed dps means much of your already low dps will be wasted big sig radius and low speed will make it easy for cruisers to hit
I know people will try to make this work because of the tank, but it will only work as a sniper doctrine if you can get a blob of t1 frigates to engage it.
For solo the only option is scram kiting but it sounds like it's too slow to control range against other brawlers even with dual webs, it's a sitting duck against kiters, and the other t3's will certainly wipe the floor with it especially with an oversize ab fitted.
I was hoping for a big hookbill, but looks more like a baby drake. |
Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
112
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Posted - 2015.05.11 19:08:44 -
[108] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:I'm seeing this as an even more tanky fleet-capable sniper. 220dps with faction light missiles and a bcu is so much lower than the other two, and even lower than most t1 destroyers no speed to keep range so you won't be sniping for long delayed dps means much of your already low dps will be wasted big sig radius and low speed will make it easy for cruisers to hit I know people will try to make this work because of the tank, but it will only work as a sniper doctrine if you can get a blob of t1 frigates to engage it. For solo the only option is scram kiting but it sounds like it's too slow to control range against other brawlers even with dual webs, it's a sitting duck against kiters, and the other t3's will certainly wipe the floor with it especially with an oversize ab fitted. I was hoping for a big hookbill, but looks more like a baby drake. EDIT: Actually it might be good for gangs gate camping. with fast lock fit and tank for gate guns
The LML build is unlikely to work due to fitting issues and lack of speed to maintain range.
The Rocket brawler is where this thing is going to live. Provided I can actually fit it with T2 RLs and suitable tank, this thing will probably be scary as a sponge/tank in small gangs. The main issue it will face is when it get's 1v1'd and kited by some shitfit frigate with long-point. |
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
10
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Posted - 2015.05.11 19:49:13 -
[109] - Quote
I like general concept of this ship. I like 6+6+2 layout slot, which to my mind opens much more interesting choices than 6+5+3. I can deal with tight PG and I understand reasons you want to prevent oversized AB fitting. As well as I understand jackdaw been designed as the slowest T3 dessie. However I don't understand this ricidulous 160 velocity (confessor 235, svipul 230). That's just terrible and seems to be a sad joke. |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.05.11 19:54:56 -
[110] - Quote
Jesus 90% of this thread is a bunch of whining. Either post constructive feedback so they can make positive changes or stfu with all the crying. |
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OHONA
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.05.11 19:56:03 -
[111] - Quote
this stupid t3 destroyers ruined all the t1 destroyers and all aslt frigs.. i dont understand what ccp actually wants .all these t3 are faster than aslt frigs and t1 destroyer.. why dont u just remove aslt frigs whats the point having them ??? |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.05.11 20:02:27 -
[112] - Quote
OHONA wrote:this stupid t3 destroyers ruined all the t1 destroyers and all aslt frigs.. i dont understand what ccp actually wants .all these t3 are faster than aslt frigs and t1 destroyer.. why dont u just remove aslt frigs whats the point having them ???
Exactly what I'm talking about |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1448
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Posted - 2015.05.11 20:46:55 -
[113] - Quote
The strong variance in mass seems like it's really throwing off base speeds at this point. This has half the mass of the confessor if I'm looking at the right numbers, meaning under prop mods it likely might be faster, but it gets rather difficult to compare when balanced like this. |
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
152
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Posted - 2015.05.11 20:57:25 -
[114] - Quote
double post |
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
152
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Posted - 2015.05.11 20:59:59 -
[115] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Here's a few of the inconsistencies:
Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.
This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high
Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw
The reversed propulsion bonuses: the other two can already fit oversized prop mods + more base speed and agility is there really any need to nerf the speed even more? I could be wrong but it looks like the jackdaw isn't even capable of controlling range against them in a brawl with an extra web fitted. So that a Jackdaw in prop mode with a T2 afterbuner +1 Scram +1 Nano +2 webs can't hold point on a svipul with an oversized AB even if the fight starts at zero ffs (that's 5 fitting slots used on range control and tackle vs two for the svipul, a prop mod and a long point).
More restricted fitting options means it's definitely going to be the most predictable of the three, so people will already have a good idea before the fight starts what your fit is, and it's the only one that can be kited to death by a shitfit condor with no hope of escape: a frigate doing 3500m/s at 18km orbit will outrun javelin rockets with ease even after the velocity bonus for missiles is counted.
A few other nerfs thrown in for good measure: slower lock time, less cap per second, and nearly double the sig radius.
This is by far the worst of the three so far, it's not even in the same class. It should have the best agility and base speed out of the three to make up for the fact that it doesn't get the huge speed boost from prop mode, and it should have the same high slot layout and bonuses as the others aswell.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1448
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Posted - 2015.05.11 21:04:44 -
[116] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Here's a few of the inconsistencies:
Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.
This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high
Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw This is not quite accurate. The Jackdaw gets an effective 10 launchers against the 9 effective turrets of the other 2 destroyers. It's also about in the middle ad far as speed is concerned under the effects of a prop mod due to having just over half the confessors mass and 2/3rds of the Svipul's. |
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
152
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Posted - 2015.05.11 21:11:57 -
[117] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:Here's a few of the inconsistencies:
Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.
This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high
Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw This is not quite accurate. The Jackdaw gets an effective 10 launchers against the 9 effective turrets of the other 2 destroyers. It's also about in the middle ad far as speed is concerned under the effects of a prop mod due to having just over half the confessors mass and 2/3rds of the Svipul's.
I could be wrong because I don't know how to work that out I'm just going on what other players have said so we'll see when it hits the test server, but if it's going to be a 70mil isk punisher he can shove it. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1448
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Posted - 2015.05.11 21:16:21 -
[118] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:Here's a few of the inconsistencies:
Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.
This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high
Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw This is not quite accurate. The Jackdaw gets an effective 10 launchers against the 9 effective turrets of the other 2 destroyers. It's also about in the middle ad far as speed is concerned under the effects of a prop mod due to having just over half the confessors mass and 2/3rds of the Svipul's. I could be wrong because I don't know how to work that out I'm just going on what other players have said so we'll see when it hits the test server, but if it's going to be a 70mil isk punisher he can shove it. Actually I had the math on the speed wrong, it's actually the slowest (assuming I didn't mess up again), but not by nearly what the base speed alone would suggest. |
Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2015.05.11 21:34:56 -
[119] - Quote
Okay it needs the 5 launchers because it can fit a max of 2 damage mods. Also, tight PG fitting, but I think it will work out okay, need to run some numbers of some fits. So that balances out. But the speed! Ouch.
A 1MN AB fit is gonna be slow. And a 1MN MWD fit with a 70 sig is gonna be fat. Can't be in defense mode and prop mode at the same time. So I don't see the slow base speed as working. I applaud the smaller velocity bonus from the prop mode, but the base speed is gonna really be a disadvantage for a brawler or a kiter. Please, please, please up the base speed. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
648
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Posted - 2015.05.11 23:04:27 -
[120] - Quote
The PG is a skosh lower than I would like to see. A buff of 2 PG lets you rock a full t2 setup like thus
Highs Light Missile launcher II Light Missile launcher II Light Missile launcher II Light Missile launcher II Light Missile launcher II
Mid slots Medium shield extender II 1MN Micro-warpdrive II Adaptive Invulnerability field II Stasis webifier II Warp Scrambler II Small shield extender II
Low slots Ballistic control system II Damage control II
Rig slots Ancillery Current Router I Em Screen reinforcer II Core defense field extender II
Without any implants, that should fit with all skills 5, with 1.5 PG and .5 CPU
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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