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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:37:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Clavius XIV
- As an average player I can buy get expanded cargo I much cheaper, and even build them myself on site deep in 0.0
- As an average player I now have a shot at inventing expanded cargo IIs come Kali since the T1 BPO is available
- As an average player I wouldn't have won the lotto for the T2 item even if it was relased through the lotto
[/b]
Seems like a win for the average player to me, and as an average player I am looking forward to it personally.
As an average player I lost years of work and effort cause CCP decided to ignore their own rules on this issue.
As an average player I'm disgusted with the wealth and monopolies in the billions and for the last year CCP still has refused to hear our cries on t2 prices.
As an average player I only hope one day my work and effort reward sme with a t2.
As an average player cargo Is were cheap and not a real impact on hauling expansions as the other named one were.
As an average player even if current t1 owners didnt upgrade to t2, i'd still have a chance to invent a t2 come Kali if t1 was put on maket and t2 in lottery like it was planned.
As an average player I'd rather see the lottery go to someone new than a current trillionaire...e ven if I dont win.
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Turkantho
Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:56:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Scoundrelus Also I'm really confused, how did the people with the T1 Expanded Cargo Hold BPO make billions of isk? When I joined 1.5 years ago they were like 45k each and they still are today. What am I missing here?
T1 BPo = copy is faster then prodding...
BPo full time in the lab doing copies and prod from the copies, this way you can produce alot more than from the BPo itself, iirc ~20times as much.
And if you sell an expander for 45k you make ~43k profit ________
Asgar[D]¦ |
Sophia Germain
Gallente Fluxion
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:59:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Sophia Germain on 10/11/2006 19:02:24
Lord Frost, same here. I've ran the daily R&D missions for 10+ agents several times a week (some of them every single day for over a year) to better my chances in the lottery, and now this farce takes place.
A good question is - Where does this "upgrade" place the new players in terms of obtaining an expanded cargohold II BPO or a shield amp II BPO? I'm talking about players who joined the game long after the original shield amp and cargo expander BPOs were obtainable from agents. With a lottery, they would have a slight chance of getting the T2 BPO, and that chance could be improved by running the daily R&D missions to boost the RP rewarded. With the upgrade of the BPOs, their chances were zero, none, impossible.
How is this fair on any scale?
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:00:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Scoundrelus WICKED! Now when I kill some dude hauling in 0.0 he'll have T2 Expanded which I can sell for like 120 mil each!
You won't find anyone moving around with them. They're too expensive to slap on to T1 haulers, and the T2 deep space transports come to a stop if using all T2's. Amusingly however, the Revelation would now have a negative speed almost as fast as its base speed(-55m/s vs. 65m/s). ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:13:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Grash Freedom
Originally by: Victor Vision
In fact you fail to see how capitalism and markets work in RL. I will give you a statement a used to be multi-millionaire gave in a pressconference in RL:
"The good news is there is one less capitalist. The bad news is this capitalist is me." (Quoted from the former owner of Moneytron.)
In real life companies rise and fall. Markets are evolution. Part of evolution is change. Change is essential for survival of the system.
Edit: Bringing this principle to the t2 industry in eve would be very healthy indeed. Upgrading the expcargo t1 to expcargo t2 is counterproductive.
RL capitalism works because there is competition, not "gods will"! A rich goes bankrupt cause of other that did a much better job
In our case, the gap poor/rich and the ability to counter each other was an option Its not anymore, thats the problem
evolution in RL markets come due to demand and supply, not the case in eve tho here we have CCP(Creator of the game, aka God of eve) interfere with the mappets( us )
RL=/EVE
Precisely
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Oolok
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:14:00 -
[156]
Thank you CCP. for telling me right away that i am an idiot. I started R&D 6 months ago, there was nothing to win in all the time. Just some hope maybe in the future ... and now you give out Tech II to people already involved in the "big business". Really the Production+Research system in Eve is a joke. Best is to forget about it, thats what I am gonna do.
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Ander
Gallente Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:17:00 -
[157]
Lets all have CCP give us back ships we lost in battle before they increased their stats. Maybe that 10 extra armor could've saved us! Thus we should get those ships back...
Right....
Or the other way around, If my ship gets nerfed I'd never ask CCP to upgrade it to a t2 ship or give me the amount of money inbetween that the average price on market dropped with.
I personally think it's quite unfair to give some people a boost of money once the normal market has stabilized. It's guaranteeing people free isk forever and ever. Which other part in this game has that advantage? Trade-goods traders? nope. Pvpers? nope.
All of us live with the risk that our assets may become useless... all except the t1->t2 bpo-owners who can happily follow the market flow. EVEN with isk-sellers causing inflation.
The bpo is the perfect gold-brick. Follows marketprice and rarily lose value due to greater availability.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
The Slayer
Caldari Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:21:00 -
[158]
The rich get richer.
Ive got a Thorax BPO CCP, wanna turn it into a deimos BPO please? KTHX Bye.
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Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:21:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Sophia Germain A good question is - Where does this "upgrade" place the new players in terms of obtaining an expanded cargohold II BPO or a shield amp II BPO? I'm talking about players who joined the game long after the original shield amp and cargo expander BPOs were obtainable from agents. With a lottery, they would have a slight chance of getting the T2 BPO, and that chance could be improved by running the daily R&D missions to boost the RP rewarded. With the upgrade of the BPOs, their chances were zero, none, impossible.
How is this fair on any scale?
I suppose its just as fair as with all the other BPOs that were released via the lottery before we started that we didn't have a shot at.
TBH would love to see them seed a new BPO every month or 2 through the lotto, perhaps based on how many people/how many folks were researching it.
The way it looks though, RPs are primarly going to be used for invention. T2 rigs will not be released through the lottery, probably as an experiment to see if all future t2 should be through invention.
Those with a lot of RPs will be the first folks able to cash in on invention.
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Skyy
Caldari Veni-Vidi-Vici
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:31:00 -
[160]
THREE AND A HALF YEARS... I'll say it again... 3 1/2 years I gave you my money CCP. I gave you hours of time, hard work, effort, my life into a game. How many people here can say they stood by this game through the good and bad for 3 1/2 years? AND, to then see how low you can finally sink by not only screwing over your whole membership, but also lying and misleading us to a point where enough is ENOUGH. I've had it CCP, this is a huge mistake on your part. The entire fabic of your company had been tarnished. Whether or not people get over this is their choice. I, for one, will never again trust anything you do ever.
In the end, it comes down to fixing your mistakes and taking responsibility to all of us, not just a few rich investors. This is far deeper than swapping t1 for t2 bpos. This is your game... your rules... and you broke them. You misled what we all thought you intended to do. No one knows exactly what the real details or facts on this issue are, becuase you have yet to come from under your bedsheets. You need to fess up and explain this... rationalize it... and if possible rectify the disgust many here have.
There's a trust we all play with in this game, we all assume we have you we can rely on CCP to be the ones NOT to scam us... and yet we may be mistaken. If there's anyone in the game we have to trust it is you... but so far in this case, its not.
We only stand by those that we can respect. I lost ALL respect for you.
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Ariel Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:35:00 -
[161]
I just had my Basic Damage Control BPO turn into a Damage Control I BPO. I am now a very confused newbie, if its not being seeded then it'll be worth a fair amount. If it is being seeded, I can still make some ISK by producing them and selling them to buy orders (as they cost next to nothing to make). But then again, maybe DCIs will turn into DCIIs (who knows! CCP is crazy), and producing them would prevent it from doing so.
What do I do?
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Machanara
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:38:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Driven
Originally by: Serpensis Terminus, if they converted the t1 BPOs into t2 for the EC, then they will probably seed the EC I BPO on the NPC market, or else it makes no sense.
There is no 'or else' about it, imho. It makes zero sense to have introduced tech 2 expanders and sba's into the game in this way. So naturally why not go all the way and seed the market with their tech 1 version bpos as well. But then this is CCP we're talking about, so don't count on it.
What a hack job of an introduction of new technology. These are significant items and its just done with no warning at all. People wake up one morning, log on, and the arbitrary 'hand of god' has magically transformed their tech 1 bpo into a tech 2 bpo. Except for those silly enough to have had their bpo in a factory. God forbid they actually have it in production. Then, it isn't magically transformed. Are they therefore screwed? Or do they petition and simply wait for 2 months for the magic wand to wave?
Either way it is a joke. I never knew magic was part of Kali, or its precursor. For CCP's next trick, why not introduce space mages that can cast spells, evil spectres that can take over ships and magic beans that can destroy planets. Makes just as much sense.
Or better yet just send in the clowns.
Why do we even bother with research agents anymore? Just shut them down and forget it. The research and development aspect of this game is a complete farce. And idiotic actions like this make this part of the game even more laughable. It is to R&D what PvP would be like if they changed PvP controls overnight to just put one fire button on each ship and whoever hits the button first blows up the other guy's ship.
Instead of agents, why not just have sensible ways to get advanced bpo's like scavenger hunts in 0.0 using Freighters. Makes just as much sense.
How do decisions like this get made anyways? Is it just left to some intern? The receptionist? The cat? Seriously. I am incredibly curious about the process, if it can even be called that.
This, and numerous other decisions of this kind over the last year, demonstrates such an utter lack of concern for players who are into production and R&D that it makes me question why I am playing this game.
WFT! CCP, you really F-ed this up big time. I guess you really haven't learned from your mistakes. Free T2 BPO's ....handing out T2 miners BPO to one corp.....the list goes on.. Guys...WAKE UP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!
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Mazza
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:44:00 -
[163]
yeah this is an utter disgrace.
i could live with not getting one on the lottery thats a fair (ish) system but just to upgrade them without giving anyone else a chance to drop a juicy bpo is shocking
like many others i aimed my research towards those bpo's amongst others
wots the F$%king point if ur just gonna hand em out to peeps who already have the previous bpo's
CCP ur a disgrace!
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Futuri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:47:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Futuri on 10/11/2006 19:47:25 Heh seems like the devs don't care... they ****** up people who worked hard and planned ahead, and now they don't even have the balls to come out of the hole and explain themselves.
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GreyMana
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:50:00 -
[165]
So CCP screwed all the people who spent their time in flying missions for their R&D agents. Great job CCP! Sometimes I'm really asking myself why those skills are in the game
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Draca Longen
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:00:00 -
[166]
Ok, so now all those points that I accumulated are just wasted? How is it fair that the existing monopoly gets an upgrade while the masses get no chance at the item that has been the carrot for the longest time. That was the one BPO that I wanted (besides Cap Power Relay II). Now I get no chance at it at all. I believe this is complete BS.
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Draca Longen
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:04:00 -
[167]
Yeah for some stupid reason this made me lose all respect as well. I dont know what it is about this one move that makes me so unbelievably upset. Its one stupid thing but I am now seriously considering shutting down my accounts and leaving. I could use my time back for other things in life anyway.
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SavageThrash
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:14:00 -
[168]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 10/11/2006 20:18:03
Originally by: Blind Man my sig probably explains my opinion on this
i agree,
un ******* beliveable in my opinion, and people wonder why i play WoW now
ontop of that no one has posted as to why this was done.
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo <-Woah
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Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:15:00 -
[169]
utter bollocks and to 120mil for a expanded cargohold II and an expanded cargohold I BPO going for 100mil ? - yeah this is supply and demand :/
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Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:36:00 -
[170]
I'm suddenly happy my foray into the T2 lottery only lasted a mere month, otherwise, I might be rightfully irate at this.
As it were, boo, now named expanders won't be the cash cow they once were.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
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Oolok
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:40:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Mikal Drey utter bollocks and to 120mil for a expanded cargohold II and an expanded cargohold I BPO going for 100mil ? - yeah this is supply and demand :/
'm so glad to hear that. You are right, BPO I's are going for cheap now. So the guys who got the Tech II BPO's as a gift don't have too much to spent to get a BPO I again, to make expander I's. So they can make instantly huge profits.
The whole thing upsets me more than I thought. And inbetween I agree, CCP announcements are not trustable. Only thing that explains it, is that CCP says, OK, don't care about those few people trying to get into some more interesting production. Just give the Tech II BPOs to some guys we already know.
If they would do something like that to Kill-Mission Runners, uhhh...
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:51:00 -
[172]
There are bad ideas and extremely bad ideas....
This is a colossaly bad idea!
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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:57:00 -
[173]
... still waiting for a dev response... they may be having a lawyer read over their statement to the public. LOL.
Truth is, they'd rather do nothing and risk losing a few members then agree to having made a huge mistake.
So I'll leave you with this... play this game as hardcore as you can. Never trust anyone, dec war on all noobs, steal, scam, and destroy everyone in your path. If you are a director, take everything your corp has... don't have any compassion for the little man... don't fear anything. One for one, and all for all. I call for all corp theives or anyone who ever thought about total rampage and ruining of the game for multiple players to step up and do your drastic measures! We will not go quietly into the night! We will not cower like those that claim to lead us! We will fight and we will rain down evil wrath amongst everyone!
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Laendra
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:10:00 -
[174]
tbfh, whoever decided on this should be ******* fired. ------------------- |
KingKenny
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:16:00 -
[175]
The responce from CCP says it all.
They don't give a F**K.
They must have known this was not going to be popular. I know a few folks in game who planned their research to have a chance of getting lucky on one of these BPO's.
I think you upset way more people than the lucky 40 or so folks with the BPO's.
Nice work.
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Grinkur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:40:00 -
[176]
They don't seem to care about the comunity anymore. They don't even see us as customers.
They don't understand that this is a game for us and things like this produce frustation and anger.
If they don't show respect for the comunity soon this thing is going to fall faster than SWG.
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Zhull
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:44:00 -
[177]
Game is still the second highest ranked game in MMORPG.com.
I suddendly feel the need to express my opininon
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2006.11.10 22:01:00 -
[178]
Aparently one guy had collected quite a few of those tech 1 cargo expander bpos. And got very lucky. I hope CCP will seed the other ones still to be seeded normally. So we still would have a ticket.
I really hope they will convert all the tech 1 cloak bpos to covert ops cloak 2 bpos and seed the tech 1 versions at kali Launch to market . that would rock. or at least make them drop via agent missions or cosmos spots. So slowly the cloak thing gets fixed up.
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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.11.10 22:18:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Glarion Garnier Aparently one guy had collected quite a few of those tech 1 cargo expander bpos.
I believe it. He's prolly the one guy that CCP saw and decided they had to upgrade him with all t2 because he already spent so much. He's prolly the one guy CCP decided to make more important than the other 100 thousand subscribers. He prolly the one guy that would whine if CCP did what they misled everyone else to believe they were doing... such as putting these t2 bpos in the lottery! ... where they belong!
Anyone knows that what you buy is a risk... they all knew they were buying rare t1 bpos. It doesnt matter how much they spent on them. It matters how much time everyone else put in hoping to get one! THAT is what is so ****** up about this. CCP values isk more than your time and effort. What a joke.
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Bermag
Point-Zero Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.10 22:22:00 -
[180]
I really don't understand why people are so upset about this. Except for those who has been buying expanded cargo I bpcs. The only thing you might have lost is the very small chance to have won a T2 Expander BPO in the future.
RP are npt lost. First of all they can be used for invention.
Then there is a chance to win other T2 BPOS which use the same research pool. Someone said (not sure it is true) in this thread that their basic damage control BPO turned into a Damage Control I BPO. Do you understand what that means? That DC I will be seeded on market and that DCU II BPO will probably be seeded in the T2 lottery.
And guess which research pool those are in?
We also have the T2 nanos and (lol) T2 bulkheads (if I ever win a T2 BPO I know which one it will be lol).
I expect T2 expanders/local hulls to drop a lot in price. They will not cost 30 mill in 2 months.
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