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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
42
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Posted - 2015.05.15 00:44:42 -
[61] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:If we are not talking about frigates, a properly flown ship can easily hit cruisers and BCs with large guns. I'm not trying hard, I am giving you solutions, if you choose to ignore them that is your choice. Again with the properly flown stuff. A properly flown (your ship here) will destroy any other ship. |
Capt Sephiroth
19
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Posted - 2015.05.15 00:45:12 -
[62] - Quote
another thing is that you are comparing t3 cruisers with t1 hulls, if you want to compare t2 cruisers then compare them to t2 battleships. I am sure that a t1 cruiser will have fun vs any of the t1 battleships.
And in one of your posts you said that a fleet of t3s would lose to a fleet of battleships which really isn't the case. Battleships outdps any t3, if both fleets were to go long range, battleships have the edge, if they go for short range, again battleships have the edge, except well torpedoes cause well application. If anything battleships have more meat on them so that logi would catch a bs when a cruiser hull would go boom. And here drones come into effect as well since most of the t3's cant even fly a set of drones while most battleships can field medium and some even heavy drones. Just some random imagining of brawling fleet of t3's entering a group of vindicators.
The reason that battleships aren't used in mass in null is ok for maneuverability but stronger reason is they are quite vulnerable to bomber fleets, and I feel from reading what many null players said in the past that that is the one of the main reasons cruiser hulls are used more.
One constant batter from OP side is that the time it takes for you to be able to properly fly a battleship is bigger than that of a cruiser hull. Many people have already said this that support skills are the same, difference being in only the battleship and large t2 weapons.
Just one more thing to add before I leave this to other more experienced players to try and show others how you are wrong. If anything you just said was true then on alliance tournaments you wouldn't see a single battleship seeing as they cost so many points and yet you did and some of them were one of the main reasons they won. (hull tanked typhoon ftw!!!!) |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
42
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Posted - 2015.05.15 00:46:37 -
[63] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:another thing is that you are comparing t3 cruisers with t1 hulls, if you want to compare t2 cruisers then compare them to t2 battleships. I am sure that a t1 cruiser will have fun vs any of the t1 battleships.
And in one of your posts you said that a fleet of t3s would lose to a fleet of battleships which really isn't the case. Battleships outdps any t3, if both fleets were to go long range, battleships have the edge, if they go for short range, again battleships have the edge, except well torpedoes cause well application. If anything battleships have more meat on them so that logi would catch a bs when a cruiser hull would go boom. And here drones come into effect as well since most of the t3's cant even fly a set of drones while most battleships can field medium and some even heavy drones. Just some random imagining of brawling fleet of t3's entering a group of vindicators.
The reason that battleships aren't used in mass in null is ok for maneuverability but stronger reason is they are quite vulnerable to bomber fleets, and I feel from reading what many null players said in the past that that is the one of the main reasons cruiser hulls are used more.
One constant batter from OP side is that the time it takes for you to be able to properly fly a battleship is bigger than that of a cruiser hull. Many people have already said this that support skills are the same, difference being in only the battleship and large t2 weapons.
Just one more thing to add before I leave this to other more experienced players to try and show others how you are wrong. If anything you just said was true then on alliance tournaments you wouldn't see a single battleship seeing as they cost so many points and yet you did and some of them were one of the main reasons they won. (hull tanked typhoon ftw!!!!) Actually I am comparing time/skill investment . Assume the people flying the T3s aren't dummies, there is no way a T3 fleet would lose to a battleship fleet. Go ahead Google it. |
Capt Sephiroth
19
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Posted - 2015.05.15 00:50:03 -
[64] - Quote
as many said and will say, well worth it cause they outclass smaller hulls in most ways except in maneuverability and being more vulnerable to bombers. |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
42
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Posted - 2015.05.15 00:52:48 -
[65] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:as many said and will say, well worth it cause they outclass smaller hulls in most ways except in maneuverability and being more vulnerable to bombers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqN2easmtGw
The battleships died first.... |
Paranoid Loyd
5145
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Posted - 2015.05.15 00:53:07 -
[66] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:If we are not talking about frigates, a properly flown ship can easily hit cruisers and BCs with large guns. I'm not trying hard, I am giving you solutions, if you choose to ignore them that is your choice. Again with the properly flown stuff. A properly flown (your ship here) will destroy any other ship. What I said is true, what you said is not true and after reviewing the loss that caused this post I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference of what I said and what you said.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Capt Sephiroth
19
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Posted - 2015.05.15 01:01:58 -
[67] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Capt Sephiroth wrote:as many said and will say, well worth it cause they outclass smaller hulls in most ways except in maneuverability and being more vulnerable to bombers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqN2easmtGw The battleships died first....
You do realize that the fleet members of the person that recorded a video brought in 3 dreads right to blap them, 2 revelations and a moros? |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
42
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Posted - 2015.05.15 01:03:07 -
[68] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:If we are not talking about frigates, a properly flown ship can easily hit cruisers and BCs with large guns. I'm not trying hard, I am giving you solutions, if you choose to ignore them that is your choice. Again with the properly flown stuff. A properly flown (your ship here) will destroy any other ship. What I said is true, what you said is not true and after reviewing the loss that caused this post I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference of what I said and what you said. I have more knowledge about the subject and you don't want to do the research.You have nothing to contribute. I understand. You should look at that video I linked. You might learn something. |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
42
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Posted - 2015.05.15 01:05:49 -
[69] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:Capt Sephiroth wrote:as many said and will say, well worth it cause they outclass smaller hulls in most ways except in maneuverability and being more vulnerable to bombers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqN2easmtGw The battleships died first.... You do realize that the fleet members of the person that recorded a video brought in 3 dreads right to blap them, 2 revelations and a moros? It desn't matter the OP said battleships suck against Caps and smaller ships. There was a fleet of battleships that could not kill the larger or smaller ships to save its life. If the battleships had been in something smaller, the caps would not have mattered. |
Capt Sephiroth
19
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Posted - 2015.05.15 01:13:08 -
[70] - Quote
I am sorry sir but you have no clue on how stuff works. It wasn't a fleet of battleships, but a combined fleet of t3, bs and an archon as a logi. They got baited out and the cameraman's fleet numbered 3x more than the opposing fleet and brought in 3 capitals that can hit cruisers as well as battleships, you notice how they cyno-ed them bit further away. And another thing rewatch that video cause the 1st thing that is shown to die is a loki, not a battleship. You have ALOT to learn and I will not indulge into further discussions in this thread cause the only person saying anything remotely to what you suggest is well you and you have been proven and told by many other FAR FAR more experienced and knowledgeable people that you are wrong and need to reconsider your views and learn how to play the game in general.
Best regards and hope you see reason
Capt Sephiroth |
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
42
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Posted - 2015.05.15 01:31:37 -
[71] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:I am sorry sir but you have no clue on how stuff works. It wasn't a fleet of battleships, but a combined fleet of t3, bs and an archon as a logi. They got baited out and the cameraman's fleet numbered 3x more than the opposing fleet and brought in 3 capitals that can hit cruisers as well as battleships, you notice how they cyno-ed them bit further away. And another thing rewatch that video cause the 1st thing that is shown to die is a loki, not a battleship. You have ALOT to learn and I will not indulge into further discussions in this thread cause the only person saying anything remotely to what you suggest is well you and you have been proven and told by many other FAR FAR more experienced and knowledgeable people that you are wrong and need to reconsider your views and learn how to play the game in general.
Best regards and hope you see reason
Capt Sephiroth
1.Say what you will dude. The battleships did not add anything beneficial. If battleships could handle swarms of ships, 3Xs the smaller ships should have been no problem.
2. Capitals can hit cruisers? Yeah better than battleships can huh?
3. Of course my mistake a loki was lost first. (bigger threat than a battleship huh?) |
Stitch Kaneland
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
245
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Posted - 2015.05.15 01:32:41 -
[72] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Termy Rockling wrote:All ships require support skills i really dont understand what makes battleships need "omg supportskills", maybe bit more drones than cruisers but thats pretty much it. However i do agree that atm battleships arent that dangerous, they should have secondary weaponbatteries of small weapons or something which wouldnt increase their long range capabilities but would make engaging smaller craft nearby easier. And no drones dont count. So you want a ship that can kill small and big things with no drawbacks? So instead of frigate/cruisers online, it will become Battleships online because they have nothing to counter them. Neuts, learn to use them. Whether big or small, a ship tends to not function when it has no cap. Yes, drones do count. BS can hit smaller targets when you fit for it and know how to fly. I just find it funny that t1 frigate can kill a battleship alone, the size difference alone should mean that the small guy cannot do so much. Also i know the "basics" of EVE so no need to play the broken record.
Yes, when the BS pilot is dumb and doesn't fit for application/utility, and instead focuses on max gank and or tank. Then a t1 frigate can solo a BS. But, that t1 frigate pilot has to be smart enough to shoot the BS drones immediately, and the BS pilot needs to be dumb enough to not know how to cycle drones. The BS pilot also needs to be dumb enough to not fit a neut, web, Rigors/TP/TE/TC's etc to be held down by a t1 frig.
These scenario's are from unexperienced BS pilots who think they know everything, and just assume that BS should be the best. They think all that dps and tank means they can't die, but they forget that they are using LARGE weapons, and between tracking and sig radius, they don't track small targets well for that very reason. Having a BS beat everything below it, means people would just fly BS all the time, since they can engage any target. And they know in a BS, they can kill anything, and flying anything but BS is foolish since if you come across a BS, you'll die.
You want proof, look at the ishtar, it is so flexible at killing any target, thats why its the 3rd most used ship in the game right now. Behind the Svipul (which is new) as its still pretty powerful for a destroyer, and sabre, which is the most popular null bubbler.
Quote:You didnt really read the post properly, just instantly started slinging standard replies You said dumb standard things, so you get the same standard replies when dumb things are spoken.
Quote:Also i know the "basics" of EVE so no need to play the broken record. Great, so you know how to approach, warp, and lock a target. EVE has more levels than "Basic". If you knew more than the "basics" then you wouldn't be asking "what makes BS require more support skills than all the other ships".
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Valkin Mordirc
977
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Posted - 2015.05.15 04:24:42 -
[73] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I have more knowledge about the subject .
https://beta.eve-kill.net/character/90226855/
Doubtful
#DeleteTheWeak
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
44
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Posted - 2015.05.15 05:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
Yes I lost a PVE fit battleship. It doesn't invalidate the OP. If this is all you have than you should go elsewhere before you violate the forum rules. |
Valkin Mordirc
977
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Posted - 2015.05.15 07:15:52 -
[75] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Yes I lost a PVE fit battleship. It doesn't invalidate the OP. If this is all you have than you should go elsewhere before you violate the forum rules.
Mhm, and you obviously have no idea on how to fly battleships.
And my link was your K/B showing that you don't know how to fly Battleships, Soooo if that is irrelevant, that means that your own personal experience is worthless? Making your OP a salty rage filled, nonsense of a person who wants CCP to make battleships the be all end of ships like he thought they were?
Good to know thanks.
#DeleteTheWeak
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
894
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Posted - 2015.05.15 11:36:18 -
[76] - Quote
This thread makes me giggle....
OP just an FYI fleets are usually made up of more than one ship... you say battleships cant hit cruisers or frigs.... add in a couple of webbing loki's (prob what died in that vid), bubbles, TP's... then watch as they steam roll whatevers on grid.
What you dont seem to realise is that the meta in this game changes. Fleets change to counter whatever fleet was the counter before them. Ishtars were the flavor of the month down to broken'ness, before that there was alpha fleet, tengu's, drake fleet, zealots.... each the counter to something else or whatever was happening in game at the time. Some brightspark might find that cruise ravens is the next big thing... who knows... but just because battleships arent used right now doesnt mean theyre broken...
No Worries
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
994
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Posted - 2015.05.15 15:37:02 -
[77] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:If we are not talking about frigates, a properly flown ship can easily hit cruisers and BCs with large guns. I'm not trying hard, I am giving you solutions, if you choose to ignore them that is your choice. Again with the properly flown stuff. A properly flown (your ship here) will destroy any other ship. What I said is true, what you said is not true and after reviewing the loss that caused this post I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference of what I said and what you said. I have more knowledge about the subject and you don't want to do the research.You have nothing to contribute. I understand. You should look at that video I linked. You might learn something.
I've looked at your kb. I'd say you basically have zero knowledge. Please show us your main or admit you don't KNOW what you're talking about. This is getting kind of rediculous. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1234
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Posted - 2015.05.15 16:16:19 -
[78] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Klaus Tylar wrote:Battleships can be useful as cheap structure bashing implements, particularly in situations where dreads are either inaccessible or undesirable. So a battleship is like using a shoe when a hammer is not around? The obvious instrument for bashing structures is the dread.
Your lack of understanding of game mechanics makes the proper replies required to be a small novel.
In short, Battleships are quite viable most well balanced fleets. If you don't think so, don't fly one.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
450
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Posted - 2015.05.15 17:13:10 -
[79] - Quote
A man who thinks battleships are worthless does not understand how to use battleships.
A man who thinks frigates are worthless does not understand how to use frigates.
Knowing what to fly, how to fly it, and when to fly it is important. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
354
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Posted - 2015.05.15 19:39:08 -
[80] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:A man who thinks battleships are worthless does not understand how to use battleships.
A man who thinks frigates are worthless does not understand how to use frigates.
Knowing what to fly, how to fly it, and when to fly it is important.
All ships have their uses. Someone are just less useful than others.
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
52
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Posted - 2015.05.15 20:14:06 -
[81] - Quote
With the exception of a few pilots most of you are missing the point and need to re read the OP. I could care less how you fit or fleet a battleship. I am saying: with all the other choices around, there is no good reason to use one. If battleships are your "love boat", that's fine. But don't pretend that you need one or that they play a significant role outside of PVE and structure bashing.
You can PVP in any combat ship, but there really is not a role that battleships do very well that another ship could do with less SP requirements and more efficiency.
EX: You wanna snipe? Use the large guns BC Tanking? Just outmaneuver them a la (T2/T3) Wanna clear out smaller ships? Use Amarr or Gallente crusier or frig You wanna kill other battleships? Use cap ships
The reasoning: If you scale the ships based on mass, you are at the top of the scale in the battleship (excluding superior cap ships). It doesn't have any of the advantages that speed and size give you (minimal advantage against a dreadnought). Your weapons systems are the least likeliest to hit for full damage in the game. Yet it has some of the highest skill point requirements. There really isn't a lot of value in the ship class.
I acknowledge that faction battleships have advantages, but for the cost and skill points, you are risking a lot when there are plenty of other choices.
I will say it again. A fleet of properly fit ships is always going to to be better than a solo poorly fit ship. A fleet of properly fit ships is not always better than a fleet of properly fit other ships. |
Titus Veridius
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
15
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Posted - 2015.05.15 20:25:15 -
[82] - Quote
THE EMPRESS NEEDS HER BOAT FINISHED TO DEFEAT THE DRIFTERS! - Petition to Finish the Aeon Model -
http://i.imgur.com/myo5mKg.jpg
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5748552#post5748552 |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
52
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:18:33 -
[83] - Quote
Tidy up a bit. |
big miker
Rifterlings The WeHurt Initiative
286
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Posted - 2015.05.15 22:43:33 -
[84] - Quote
With a **** ton of nano battleship experience I can say that a large bunch of battleships are fine. Apart from warp-speed, I still find that battleships should warp at aprox 2.5 au/s. Other than that there's a couple of battleship that need a small buff / tweaking. Mainly the Tempest.
They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily. Bombers in 0.0 might be a little bit too good at countering battleships though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFi_i8y84p8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTS7Lpt0WI
^ Proof of having experience ^
Latest video: Ferocious 5.0 sporting a nano Nightmare!!
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Paranoid Loyd
5164
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Posted - 2015.05.15 23:03:52 -
[85] - Quote
Wow, look at that, Big Miker hitting smaller ships with big guns, and OMG in the first clip they are unbonused! How is this possible?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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big miker
Rifterlings The WeHurt Initiative
286
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Posted - 2015.05.15 23:07:23 -
[86] - Quote
big miker wrote:
They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily.
Latest video: Ferocious 5.0 sporting a nano Nightmare!!
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Paranoid Loyd
5164
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Posted - 2015.05.15 23:11:39 -
[87] - Quote
big miker wrote:big miker wrote:
They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily.
Yeah, I was being sarcastic, in the first clip of the first video you used 2 of the 4 recommendations I stated yesterday that OP dismissed because he knows more than me.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
52
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Posted - 2015.05.16 00:11:26 -
[88] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:big miker wrote:big miker wrote:
They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily.
Yeah, I was being sarcastic, in the first clip of the first video you used 3 of the 5 recommendations I stated yesterday that OP dismissed because he knows more than me. You need to re read the thread. While I appreciate big miker's input, hitting smaller is only a small part of my discussion. Again, any ship can fit/drone/etc... to take on another ship. Just why would you use a battleship to do it ?
I really can't spell it out any easier for you than that. This is about battleships being one of the silliest ships to fly because, other smaller ships can do it better. You seem to be only focused on hitting smaller ships. Yes a battleship can specialize to hit a smaller ship, but it has to more than other ships in the game. |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
52
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Posted - 2015.05.16 00:17:24 -
[89] - Quote
big miker wrote:With a **** ton of nano battleship experience I can say that a large bunch of battleships are fine. Apart from warp-speed, I still find that battleships should warp at aprox 2.5 au/s. Other than that there's a couple of battleship that need a small buff / tweaking. Mainly the Tempest. They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily. Bombers in 0.0 might be a little bit too good at countering battleships though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFi_i8y84p8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTS7Lpt0WI^ Proof of having experience ^ I would love to discuss the tempest with you on another thread. Oh boy the things I have to say about that ship! |
Valkin Mordirc
981
|
Posted - 2015.05.16 02:56:06 -
[90] - Quote
Quote:EX: You wanna snipe? Use the large guns BC This is true, the Rokh is in a bad place as it doesn't fill it's intended role. Same with the Tornado and Oracle, however sometime you do need a BS sized tank, the RnK Golden Fleet is prime example for it.
Quote: Tanking? Just outmaneuver them a la (T2/T3)
When it comes to small gang and fleet fights, Webs from Loki's and Huggins negate this, any BS fleet will have these to support them. Just like any other fleet will have a support wing. BS'es still out DPS T3's and when a T3 is being painted webbed and scrammed full damage is applied fairly well.
Quote: Wanna clear out smaller ships? Use Amarr or Gallente crusier or frig
Actually The Cerb/Orthrus or dare I say it Barghest would be the best choice for taking out smaller ships, so medium blasters and Pulses can't track frigates with out web support, and if you need to kill cruisers the Barghest is king with RHML's and it's impressive speed.
Quote:You wanna kill other battleships? Use cap ships
Please tell me where you keep your combat fitted Dread in Highsec. Also Cap ships take longer to skill into then battleships so I don't understand why you are saying this.
#DeleteTheWeak
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