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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3541
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:35:24 -
[1] - Quote
(Media source: https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-goes-dark-company-financials)
As I already pointed in a couple of threads, CCP bought back the publicly traded bonds they had issued in 2012, and with that, they no longer have public stocks and are no longer obliged to release their financial informaiton. That has been followed by quickly removing that information from their website.
I used to think that those bonds were in the line of some 4.5 million $, but it turns they actually were 20 million $.
CCP Falcon already stated to TMC that there's nothing shady in it, CCP is no longer bound to publish that information and so they've decided to withhold it.
As subscription numbers.
As EVE economy reports.
As the little fact that "EVE Legion" and associated trademarks are exctinct in the USA, where they were registered.
Now everybody may start speculating, but I wan to point out somehting (already an old claim of mine): May 2015 is the latest date in which Oculus Rift can be greenlighted for production in order to be released for Xmas season. And without the Rift being sold massively, Valkyrie would become just a backburner project rather than a (potenital) rainfall of $ for CCP.
So...
...is the Rift going to be relased and make CCP rich, so they've cut their debt to cash in later? ...is the Rift being postponed and CCP will need to beat it until 2016 without that income?
Share your speculation!
I guess that this thread will either be locked before anyone posts or will be left to run for chuckles at CCP, but in the meanwhile...
EVE is not alive enough.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Vivien Meally
Des-Meisters-Lakaien Brothers of Tangra
14
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:39:35 -
[2] - Quote
eve is dying |
stoicfaux
5595
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:50:54 -
[3] - Quote
On the plus side, CCP is healthy enough to have 20 million to buy its bonds back? Either they had it in cash, or some bank thinks they're credit worthy enough for a loan?
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Dirk Magnum
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
443
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:50:55 -
[4] - Quote
I want to post in this thread just so I can say I did.
(CCP is the Icelandic Mafia #TruthIsOutThere)
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "LIVE FAST DIE."
- traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
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u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
184
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:52:01 -
[5] - Quote
Vivien Meally wrote:eve is dying
So it can rise from the ashes like a Phoenix! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8558
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:55:51 -
[6] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Anyone who says media source and TMC in the same sentence needs to rethink their worldview.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Dirk Magnum
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
443
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:04:01 -
[7] - Quote
Goons won Eve and 20 million was the prize. See you bitches in Cancun (I run drugs there because Mittens kept all the prize money.)
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "LIVE FAST DIE."
- traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
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stoicfaux
5596
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:09:39 -
[8] - Quote
Dirk Magnum wrote:Goons won Eve and 20 million was the prize. See you bitches in Cancun (I run drugs there because Mittens kept all the prize money.) Discussing real world politics and religion on the forums is against the ToS...
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
1112
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:14:27 -
[9] - Quote
It's good news. Nothing good has EVER come from a game developer with public stocks. They all either get bought up and have their IP's ruined, or the games get shut down completely. The stocks were likely a remnant of the bad times CCP had a few years ago and may have been the only thing keeping the company afloat in that time. Now they saw a chance to regain control and took it. It's a wise business decision. CCP can do much greater and riskier things without a horde of investors breathing over their shoulders.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3931
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:23:45 -
[10] - Quote
Possibile simple explanation:
. They found cheaper debt because low interest rates and/or better financial solidity . They repaid the bonds with the new debt . They removed financials because no company publishes them if they don't have to
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3541
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:28:55 -
[11] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:It's good news. Nothing good has EVER come from a game developer with public stocks. They all either get bought up and have their IP's ruined, or the games get shut down completely. The stocks were likely a remnant of the bad times CCP had a few years ago and may have been the only thing keeping the company afloat in that time. Now they saw a chance to regain control and took it. It's a wise business decision. CCP can do much greater and riskier things without a horde of investors breathing over their shoulders.
Huh... bonds are akin to loans. They give no voice to the holder.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4585
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:35:03 -
[12] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Out of Pod Experience.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
3326
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:42:50 -
[13] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Huh... bonds are akin to loans. They give no voice to the holder.
Please tell this to my Business Account Manager lol
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
8514
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:50:35 -
[14] - Quote
Hiding things does not sound good at all.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
8514
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:53:03 -
[15] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Possibile simple explanation:
. They found cheaper debt because low interest rates and/or better financial solidity . They repaid the bonds with the new debt . They removed financials because no company publishes them if they don't have to
Well, so why they did not said that?
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3936
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:13:34 -
[16] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Possibile simple explanation:
. They found cheaper debt because low interest rates and/or better financial solidity . They repaid the bonds with the new debt . They removed financials because no company publishes them if they don't have to Well, so why they did not said that? Huh?
That's exactly what they said:
Mr. Stefansson wrote:CCP hf. kt. 450697-3469 hefur +íkve+¦i+¦ a+¦ n++ta s+¬r r+¬tt til innk+¦llunar +í +¦llum skuldabr+¬fum +¡ flokki CCP 12 1; ISIN: IS0000021962 Innk+¦llunin tekur gildi ++ann 27. mars 2015. CCP hf. grei+¦ir skuldina +¡ samr+ªmi vi+¦ skilm+íla skuldabr+¬faflokksins. Samkv+ªmt skilm+ílum skuldabr+¬faflokksins hafa skuldabr+¬faeigendur 30 daga fr+í tilkynningu um innk+¦llun til a+¦ tilkynna CCP hf. hvort ++eir n++ti s+¬r breytir+¬tt skuldabr+¬faflokksins. V+¡sa+¦ er a+¦ +¦+¦ru leyti til skilm+íla skuldabr+¬faflokksins. Skuldabr+¬fin eru skr+í+¦ +¡ Nasdaq OMX Iceland hf. og ver+¦ur +¦ska+¦ eftir afskr+íningu ++eirra a+¦ lokinni innk+¦llun. Frekar uppl++singar veitir: Sigur+¦ur Stef+ínsson, fj+írm+ílastj+¦ri CCP hf Netfang: [email protected]
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16380
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:11:07 -
[17] - Quote
I'm sure the 3.5m per year these bonds were costing didn't factor into this decision at all.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1016
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:32:58 -
[18] - Quote
Typically, when an insider buys back ANY stock, it's a good sign. And if someone actually buys back ALL the stock, it's imo, a very good sign.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16380
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:40:34 -
[19] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Typically, when an insider buys back ANY stock, it's a good sign. And if someone actually buys back ALL the stock, it's imo, a very good sign.
No you see paying off a loan is a sure sign that a company is dying.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
8515
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:41:45 -
[20] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Possibile simple explanation:
. They found cheaper debt because low interest rates and/or better financial solidity . They repaid the bonds with the new debt . They removed financials because no company publishes them if they don't have to Well, so why they did not said that? Huh? That's exactly what they said: Mr. Stefansson wrote:CCP hf. kt. 450697-3469 hefur +íkve+¦i+¦ a+¦ n++ta s+¬r r+¬tt til innk+¦llunar +í +¦llum skuldabr+¬fum +¡ flokki CCP 12 1; ISIN: IS0000021962 Innk+¦llunin tekur gildi ++ann 27. mars 2015. CCP hf. grei+¦ir skuldina +¡ samr+ªmi vi+¦ skilm+íla skuldabr+¬faflokksins. Samkv+ªmt skilm+ílum skuldabr+¬faflokksins hafa skuldabr+¬faeigendur 30 daga fr+í tilkynningu um innk+¦llun til a+¦ tilkynna CCP hf. hvort ++eir n++ti s+¬r breytir+¬tt skuldabr+¬faflokksins. V+¡sa+¦ er a+¦ +¦+¦ru leyti til skilm+íla skuldabr+¬faflokksins. Skuldabr+¬fin eru skr+í+¦ +¡ Nasdaq OMX Iceland hf. og ver+¦ur +¦ska+¦ eftir afskr+íningu ++eirra a+¦ lokinni innk+¦llun. Frekar uppl++singar veitir: Sigur+¦ur Stef+ínsson, fj+írm+ílastj+¦ri CCP hf Netfang: [email protected] Oh yes, and this is about this cheaper debt? I see only information about buying out the bonds. But I suppose only fool would take debt that would make it harder to repay in future.
Nonetheless, it doesnt look good for EVE players because we know less about state of the company. Investing money in the game we play, by subscribing to it. What if they are doing it, because they don't want us to know the truth. Can't now exclude that, can you? Because you don't know.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
277
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:53:40 -
[21] - Quote
It is clear to me that CCP have to have some finance issues. Dust 514 was released two years ago and it is subscription fee free game. This means there should be large microtransaction system for Dust 514. Has anyone heard NES store for Dust 514? Now there is also Valkyrie project coming in and it is still not bringing money in. It just eats away money now. World of Darkness ended in disaster and created huge money loss. Project legion is planned also.
Sure just say everything is fine. I don't believe it.
Now when this money issue came up there were something strange in EVE fanfest money figures. They were released in fanfest and my first thought was that there's zero missing from those figures. They weren't even nearly right size.
Amount of money coming from fanfest: Amount of fanfest attendees x average amount of money they use for CCP services.
Profit is then completely different thing. There are expenses like salaries, taxes, rents and so on.
I still believe in EVE. With right development it could be so much more than it is now. There should be more possibilities for solo work and more possibilities for small corporations and PVP should aim to have more small and medium size fights. Large fights are hard since system has problem of handling them.
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2168
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Posted - 2015.05.16 19:17:37 -
[22] - Quote
WoD was written off several years ago Dust 514 is making CCP money. We have no idea what is happening with 'Legion'. Note, they may have decided to release under a different name so that anyone googling it won't get the Rage threads over Legion from the Fanfest release. Or it may not have even been given a green light at all. They were way early releasing any information about it at all. So.... All we know is they have two games making them money, and that they are developing a third.... sounds healthy to me. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3938
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Posted - 2015.05.16 21:56:41 -
[23] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Nonetheless, it doesnt look good for EVE players because we know less about state of the company. Investing money in the game we play, by subscribing to it. What if they are doing it, because they don't want us to know the truth. Can't now exclude that, can you? Because you don't know. Internet friend, if I was actually investing money in CCP I'd ask a couple of questions.
But I'm not, I pay 45 euros and get back 30 days of joyful playing and shitposting on 3 accounts, I expect no further return on my cash.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Robby Altair
171
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Posted - 2015.05.16 22:12:39 -
[24] - Quote
Congratulation to CCP Games coming through their first year after restructuring. Good Job.
Related link: Layoffs hit Eve Online studio CCP
Room 3420 Boelter Hall UCLA
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1096
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Posted - 2015.05.16 22:38:59 -
[25] - Quote
Some people are just desperate to see CCP fall; its most noticible amoungst advocates of features and gameplay styles that either were never realised, or got severely nerfed/reduced. Its because they have long ago stopped getting joy from the game, and dearly want EvE to collapse, so they can point to their lost feature and say "see, I told you all along not finishing this would destroy the game, vindication!"
You see this in every game that has lived long enough to see changes, or to not make changes people cried out for. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
131
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Posted - 2015.05.17 05:45:24 -
[26] - Quote
Its because they arent sticking to what they were good at; developing story and content for EvE.
Tidying it up and crushing bugs. Etc.
Marketing EvE in new venues to pull in more numbers.
The bad thing to do is to try to worry about retaining players. You need to let players come and go as they please, because there will always be more coming in and more leaving.
The blue donut is a thing because the players decided to make the game in nullsec boring for themselves rather than risk losing it all and getting beaten back to highsec. You can't fix people being intelligent enough to figure out how to negotiated peace treaties to protect their virtual valuables. Let them get bored and go, because its their own fault.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
278
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Posted - 2015.05.17 10:05:13 -
[27] - Quote
It seems that EVE store has been offline over month and half now. Another good example of taking care of business. I would expect to see notification in advance if service planned to be closed. Now people needed to find on their own that EVE store is closed. Weird! EVE store is store that sells physical goodies. It is not NES store that sells virtual goods.
Relevant links: EVE online store FYI Musterbrand EVE sale! Real Life EvE Apparels, where to get?!
edit: Added explanation about what is EVE store and EVE store link.
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
8526
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Posted - 2015.05.17 20:10:47 -
[28] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Some people are just desperate to see CCP fall; its most noticible amoungst advocates of features and gameplay styles that either were never realised, or got severely nerfed/reduced. Its because they have long ago stopped getting joy from the game, and dearly want EvE to collapse, so they can point to their lost feature and say "see, I told you all along not finishing this would destroy the game, vindication!"
You see this in every game that has lived long enough to see changes, or to not make changes people cried out for. Oh, and why would I subscribe for next two years? Because I did. If you would see my other posts, its all about making this game better, and you can't do that without shaking CCP sometimes. Amount of shaking should always come proportional to the CCP turtling up.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1520
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Posted - 2015.05.18 11:52:39 -
[29] - Quote
Dirk Magnum wrote:Goons won Eve and ... The 80% in High Sec, "What are Goons?"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3550
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Posted - 2015.05.18 13:42:04 -
[30] - Quote
Wel, the ball bounced up an down, and now there's a whole story with plenty of details and some interesting speculation, courtesy of Nosy Gamer:
http://nosygamer.blogspot.com.es/2015/05/bond-geddon-what-we-know.html
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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