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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma Stain Confederation
0
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:59:35 -
[1] - Quote
The Declassified Report
For the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you. |
Jili Tonari
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:20:46 -
[2] - Quote
This is fascinating!
Take readings of some of the New Eden systems, noting the relation to neighboring stars (preferably young, cooler ones with a long life-expectancy) such as distance, age and movement along the galactic plane then calculate their positions along a time-line accounting for galactic rotation, then all you have to do is go back to the matching Anoikis system, find those stars and you'll have your date and irrefutable proof! You can back that up with data on the estimated age and progression of the Eden/Anoikis stars. Check to see how much of reduction there is in the amount of say, hydrogen a younger star is burning, then go to the counterpart and see how much less there is and you'll be able to estimate the time differential!
Wait...does that mean we're the Drifters too?
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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
7593
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:14:11 -
[3] - Quote
If this is correct it has massive implications.
Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
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Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
437
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:18:09 -
[4] - Quote
Very very interesting. This matches a hypothesis I've had for years but didn't gather enough data to prove. The primary reason I discarded the theory was that none of the k space systems I was evaluating seemed to have a sufficient match although others did. Do you have matches for any of the previously known shattered systems (e.g. Seyllin)?
I'm also not sure I agree with your time travel conclusion - I would lean more toward a parallel or out of phase model.
Author of Interstellar Privateer
Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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Teinyhr
Ourumur
448
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:18:12 -
[5] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:If this is correct it has massive implications.
If this is correct, this is the understatement of the year. |
Rena Risalo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:19:05 -
[6] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:If this is correct it has massive implications.
Thats kind of an understatement.
If this is true, and from the information its likely it is, this will change the face of New Eden forever. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7022
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:56:47 -
[7] - Quote
Time travel.
Huh.
So-- if this is true, we should be able to identify parallels for 100% of W-Space systems in K-Space. Were you able to do this? If so, were you able to determine a pattern of drift based on your presumed theory of rapid cluster rotation? Mind, I'm still wondering why an unbound, non-homogeneous body would deform instead of simply scattering, but...
(edit: oh, right. No questions at this time. Welp.)
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Radical Divinity
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:57:43 -
[8] - Quote
It's clear. Currently we're living within a historical simulation designed to trace the events that lead to the current state of Anoikis. |
Lucas Raholan
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
137
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:01:40 -
[9] - Quote
Are we really suggesting time travel now, it seems people are abandoning reason and sense in pursuit of science and toward insanity and delusion.
I fear the A'J project has drifted far from what Dr Tukoss envisioned it to be, such a shame as it had such great promise only to now be staffed by fools and madmen
I'm secretly a unicorn that Sh**ts fairy dust and sings all day-á
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Berluth Luthian
Hoplite Brigade
203
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:05:43 -
[10] - Quote
Does this affect where statics spawn? |
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma Stain Confederation
5
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:13:06 -
[11] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Time travel.
Huh.
So-- if this is true, we should be able to identify parallels for 100% of W-Space systems in K-Space. Were you able to do this? If so, were you able to determine a pattern of drift based on your presumed theory of rapid cluster rotation? Mind, I'm still wondering why an unbound, non-homogeneous body would deform instead of simply scattering, but...
(edit: oh, right. No questions at this time. Welp.)
I'll make one exception here. That's as far as we were able to get on our own, and given the gravity of the situation before us and the fact that Anoikis appears to in fact be either an alternate New Eden or a future New Eden, the ultimate consensus was that it was best to lower our shroud enough for more eyes to look at it and see what the larger scientific community can figure out.
The reason I made the call of not accepting questions was to avoid getting bombarded and essentially denial-of-service attacked as a person given the nature of the implications. Where a valid concern or point exists that I notice, I'll try to duck out for a bit and address it. As for 100% of w-space systems, at the time, yes. Since the initial progress of Looking Glass however, the shattered systems showed up, and we don't have matches for those. Given that our script starts at the star and expands outwards attempting to locate a match, this presents a problem. I'm hoping the greater scientific community of New Eden can figure that one out. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7022
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:28:24 -
[12] - Quote
So. 100% of unshattered W-Space systems have a match in star type, and planet types sequentially, in known space? With maximum variation in orbit size of under... 5%? 8%? And other planetary factors such as size, escape velocity, etc, largely matching as well? In 100% of cases?
And completely understood on demurring on questions. The autopsy team did likewise, as they were subject to an apparent bombardment of both bitter recriminations and fandom.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma Stain Confederation
6
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:33:12 -
[13] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:So. 100% of unshattered W-Space systems have a match in star type, and planet types sequentially, in known space? With maximum variation in orbit size of under... 5%? 8%? And other planetary factors such as size, escape velocity, etc, largely matching as well? In 100% of cases?
And completely understood on demurring on questions. The autopsy team did likewise, as they were subject to an apparent bombardment of both bitter recriminations and fandom.
In 100% of cases, each Anoikis system has a New Eden perfect match, with only minor variations in changes of planet type, but just about everything else, including the star's attributes remaining identical. Exceptions only cropped up with the discovery of shattered systems. To demonstrate this, Appendix A gives a large chunk of the list, but deliberately leaves some of it off in order to encourage the larger community to develop their own systems to complete the list, and use these as a launching pad from which to attempt to discover that which we didn't in two years of kicking it around. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7022
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:40:12 -
[14] - Quote
100% of cases, perfect match, minor changes of planet type. One of these is not like the other. By minor variation of planet type, is this-- 5% of planet classes not matching? 20%? 50%? While planet order, size, and other composition including moon count remain the same?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma Stain Confederation
7
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:50:26 -
[15] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:100% of cases, perfect match, minor changes of planet type. One of these is not like the other. By minor variation of planet type, is this-- 5% of planet classes not matching? 20%? 50%? While planet order, size, and other composition including moon count remain the same?
Planet order and moon count are always the same, based on spot checks over time size and other attributes appear to remain the same but there's just too much data to manually pour over and doublecheck. I've never found a wrong match though on any of my spot checks. But if you look at the Dotlan celestial pages side by side, stars are identical, moon count per planet is identical, order is identical, but sometimes lava planets cool into barren planets, Storm planets become Temperate, etc. In one bizarre example we saw a gas giant either condense into an ice planet, or somehow eject its gas, leaving an icy core. We see this here:
J135304
LA2-KV
The last planet's moons are the same and it retains the same orbit period of 5716.6 days and the same orbital radius of 25.714 AU, even with the same somehow atmospheric pressure of 124.58 kPa and a radius of 19,760 km. But somehow it gained mass and is just ice now. We can't figure out what the hell could have caused this, but cannot deny that it appears to in fact be the same planet, following some major event. |
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.05.16 16:52:46 -
[16] - Quote
Time travel seems a very large leap, given our current understanding of physics. If we discount the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the result. To that end, the close similarity of the systems suggests a much more chilling, yet similarly monumental scale of revelation. J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.
Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed. But consider this. To launch an invasion, you begin by simulating your field of battle. Often on a simplified scale or dimension, hence a flattened galactic plane. Next, you send your troops to begin exercises in the field, learning the lay of the land, and how to use the environment to your advantage. There has been a sleeper presence, which I believe is VR, in J-space since their discovery. Using drones to simulate the soldiers on the field, either in battle or training is nothing new. Finally, once the commanders are confident in their battle plans, they begin establishing beachheads in preparation for a full out assault. This is the drifter presence we see now. And ties in with the video feed of the fleet of drifters.
I don't want to speculate what sort of mind would create a copy of new eden for the express purpose of using said copy as a training area, but if true, this planning has been going on for a very long time, long enough for minor perturbations to amplify over time, causing a difference in orbits and global environmental shifts, barren to temperate for example. |
Rena Risalo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:09:35 -
[17] - Quote
Rosal Milag wrote:Time travel seems a very large leap, given our current understanding of physics. If we discount the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the result. To that end, the close similarity of the systems suggests a much more chilling, yet similarly monumental scale of revelation. J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.
Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed. But consider this. To launch an invasion, you begin by simulating your field of battle. Often on a simplified scale or dimension, hence a flattened galactic plane. Next, you send your troops to begin exercises in the field, learning the lay of the land, and how to use the environment to your advantage. There has been a sleeper presence, which I believe is VR, in J-space since their discovery. Using drones to simulate the soldiers on the field, either in battle or training is nothing new. Finally, once the commanders are confident in their battle plans, they begin establishing beachheads in preparation for a full out assault. This is the drifter presence we see now. And ties in with the video feed of the fleet of drifters.
I don't want to speculate what sort of mind would create a copy of new eden for the express purpose of using said copy as a training area, but if true, this planning has been going on for a very long time, long enough for minor perturbations to amplify over time, causing a difference in orbits and global environmental shifts, barren to temperate for example.
Do you realize just how insane that sounds?
Time travel is a bridge too far but creating a full matter simulation of new eden is your theory? Lay off the boosters mate. |
Esteban Dragonovic
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
90
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:14:45 -
[18] - Quote
Rosal Milag wrote: J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.
Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed.
If you can create star systems, why would you need to invade new ones? Building them just to simulate invading them is simply not cost efficient. |
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:21:48 -
[19] - Quote
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:Rosal Milag wrote: J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.
Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed. If you can create star systems, why would you need to invade new ones? Building them just to simulate invading them is simply not cost efficient.
Cost effective for whom? Sacrificing a dread because it's too long to jump back isn't cost effective for a small corporation. But Black Legion did so in mass numbers. Look to our cluster for one simple resource. Humans. Where else are you going to find the trillions of human beings? |
Rena Risalo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:25:42 -
[20] - Quote
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:Rosal Milag wrote: J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.
Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed. If you can create star systems, why would you need to invade new ones? Building them just to simulate invading them is simply not cost efficient.
Exactly. What remains is however shocking, whatever the truth turns out to be. Wormholes to a galaxy that just happens to connect to systems that have almost exact matches to our own? Thats too much of a coincidence for me to discount time travel/parallel universe idea. Nothing else really explains it. One thing we could do is try to see where the shattered wormhole systems parallel to (im betting near carolines star) , and where in the j space the eve gate wound up. |
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Rena Risalo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:34:03 -
[21] - Quote
Rosal Milag wrote:Esteban Dragonovic wrote:Rosal Milag wrote: J-space was created by some entity for the purpose of planning a galactic invasion.
Yes, there is the massive costs and astronomical, no pun intended, scale of materials needed. If you can create star systems, why would you need to invade new ones? Building them just to simulate invading them is simply not cost efficient. Cost effective for whom? Sacrificing a dread because it's too long to jump back isn't cost effective for a small corporation. But Black Legion did so in mass numbers. Look to our cluster for one simple resource. Humans. Where else are you going to find the trillions of human beings?
Look, as i said lay off the boosters. If this were the case drifter ships would have a Sanshas Nation logo on the side. The nation makes incursions to get warm bodies all the time. You dont need such a complex staging ground for that. All the drifters would have to do is ally or work with the nation. Or take them over first. Its just too much effort to create all that space just for practice. If that had the power to manipulate matter and energy to that degree time travel wouldnt really be out of the question and would probably be simpler. |
joecuster
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
43
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:55:25 -
[22] - Quote
Will Gauss wrote:The Declassified ReportFor the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you.
never cringed so hard in my life |
Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems
137
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Posted - 2015.05.16 18:09:31 -
[23] - Quote
When I was in TS-F we reviewed several sleeper artifacts. One of which allowed for precise travel in 4 dimensions... This data seems to match up with a hairball theory we hatched at the time, but was stored on lacking data. However I would shy away from the thought that this is time travel and more a form of proof that at type of multiverse theory is accurate and that Anoikis is a copy of New Eden. The name that is cataloged for the region may be of some insite.
{Anoikis is a form of programmed cell death that is induced by anchorage-dependent cells detaching from the surrounding extracellular matrix (ECM). Usually cells stay close to the tissue to which they belong since the communication between proximal cells as well as between cells and ECM provide essential signals for growth or survival. When cells are detached from the ECM, there is a loss of normal cellGÇômatrix interactions, and they may undergo anoikis. However, metastatic tumor cells may escape from anoikis and invade other organs.} Copied from public data archives
Reviewing this its almost a one to one of what we are looking at. In this case the Drifters are a living metaphor for a cancer that is trying to spread from one organ to another. From their version of New Eden without an underlying matrix to ours with. According to this aped metaphor and the survey data gathered here Anoikis is undergoing 'cell death' a slow decay where a the structure holding together the systems are failing and will eventually lead the space to be officially dead.
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
526
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Posted - 2015.05.16 18:22:46 -
[24] - Quote
Will Gauss wrote:The Declassified ReportFor the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you.
Interesting. But what about that simple fact that New Eden is observable from Anoikis?
hehe
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma Stain Confederation
7
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Posted - 2015.05.16 18:25:02 -
[25] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:Will Gauss wrote:The Declassified ReportFor the safety of New Eden, I have approved the declassification of Project Looking Glass. Neither I nor any other TerminalDogma member will be taking questions at this time. Thank you. Interesting. But what about that simple fact that New Eden is observable from Anoikis? hehe
If you guys can figure out an explanation for that, I'd love to see it and I'm looking forward to seeing what the larger scientific community does with this information. |
Quattras Peione
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
96
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Posted - 2015.05.16 18:33:44 -
[26] - Quote
There are fascinating, if potentially terrible, implications to this.
I had considered the possibility that the wormholes we traverse connect disparate time as well as space. That said, I am not entirely convinced that Anoikis is a future instance of the New Eden cluster. First, as Project Compass discovered, the physical distance between the two clusters can be pretty definitively calculated.
Second, the name Usi - a system out of which I operated - stuck out, and I noted that there are two J-systems tagged as exact matches for it. I did not notice if this was the case for any others, but it only adds further questions.
Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione
No, I'm not that kind of doctor.
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma Stain Confederation
7
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Posted - 2015.05.16 18:40:28 -
[27] - Quote
Quattras Peione wrote:There are fascinating, if potentially terrible, implications to this.
I had considered the possibility that the wormholes we traverse connect disparate time as well as space. That said, I am not entirely convinced that Anoikis is a future instance of the New Eden cluster. First, as Project Compass discovered, the physical distance between the two clusters can be pretty definitively calculated.
Second, the name Usi - a system out of which I operated - stuck out, and I noted that there are two J-systems tagged as exact matches for it. I did not notice if this was the case for any others, but it only adds further questions.
You are correct. Looking at these two Anoikis systems, they appear to be mirrors of each other as well. In two years of looking at this we didn't notice that. In five hours of it being out in the public you did. This right here is why we just released what we had.
J145337
J161257 |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2169
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Posted - 2015.05.16 19:51:42 -
[28] - Quote
The Compass 2.5 findings also match within the bounds of the initial project Compass findings perfectly. So yea..... I'd suggest going back to the drawing board on this and instead considering that just like atoms, star systems will condense into known patterns regularly rather than infinite variation, simply because those patterns are stable. When we have known analogies with orbital models that form such patterns, why should we be surprised to see it replicated on a macro scale? |
Rena Risalo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.05.16 20:43:22 -
[29] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:The Compass 2.5 findings also match within the bounds of the initial project Compass findings perfectly. So yea..... I'd suggest going back to the drawing board on this and instead considering that just like atoms, star systems will condense into known patterns regularly rather than infinite variation, simply because those patterns are stable. When we have known analogies with orbital models that form such patterns, why should we be surprised to see it replicated on a macro scale?
Please learn astrophysics. And quantum physics. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2171
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Posted - 2015.05.16 20:58:50 -
[30] - Quote
Rena Risalo wrote: Please learn astrophysics. And quantum physics.
In that case please feel free to show exactly why it's impossible for star systems to form in common patterns. Along with a non time travelling explanation for the aforementioned similar star systems given the depth of project compasses mapping and positioning data using several different forms of verification all giving J space a real space location relative to the Eve cluster. |
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