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Reaver Lupus
Grey Reavers
0
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:23:47 -
[1] - Quote
Inspired by ancient myths of those days when the Navies of governments sailed the high seas rather than the desolate stretches of space, an idea which was long lost is being evaluated for Space Faring usage by the various factions of Eve.
Increasingly irritated by the grievous losses and damages inflicted upon their supply chains by roving gangs of pirates and marauders, ship builders are beginning to construct what would have been known as Q-ships in the distant past. These vessels bear outward resemblance to various industrial ships, most commonly freighters. However, this is merely a clever facade constructed around the design of a purely combat oriented ship. Highly advanced IFF's mimic those of their industrial cousins to avoid tipping off eager pirates who rely solely on their overviews, and cargo holds can be configured to appear to be holding valuable goods. These vessels are at home as advanced parties who travel ahead of convoys in order to preemptively spring any traps which may be set around gates, or mixed in with the convoy itself as wolves in sheep's clothing.
Their bulkheads conceal armaments rivaling those of battlecruisers and even battleships, and what they lose in maneuverability, they make up for in their ability to withstand blistering incoming fire, with the false exteriors and cargo bays of the ship providing buffer zones to critical systems. This comes at the cost of being unable to easily flee an engagement which proves to be too much of a challenge for their abilities, and the crews on board know it. Their sole purpose and duty is to either defeat those who would harm them or their merchant brethren, or at least to fight to the bitter end and perhaps allow their convoy to escape.
It is predicted that these ships, if adopted, will quickly become a mainstay for any merchants or governments wishing to move high value cargo through dangerous reaches of the void. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11024
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:26:58 -
[2] - Quote
This is such a new and never before seen Idea, I endorse it completely! And these ships totally wouldn't be OP and used in ways the creators didn't anticipate.
Happy Sarcasm day yall! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2176
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:30:56 -
[3] - Quote
Or.... We could take a page from the days of the spanish main. And stop insisting industrials must be flimsy targets fit only for ganking and cowering in fear. Instead we decide what size vessel they are equivalent to and give them base EHP and fittings to match up to and including unbonused turrets/launchers in the same number as standard for vessels of that size, and then sit back and watch all the emergent game play surrounding them emerge. Caveat on this to make it practical is Cargo extenders would need to get stacking penalties added so that 50% of the cargo isn't in the 6th extender you fit. |
Reaver Lupus
Grey Reavers
0
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:31:59 -
[4] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is such a new and never before seen Idea, I endorse it completely! And these ships totally wouldn't be OP and used in ways the creators didn't anticipate. Happy Sarcasm day yall! It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood.
it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2176
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:41:48 -
[5] - Quote
Reaver Lupus wrote: It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood.
it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents.
Except EVE mechanics would make such a nightmare since each ship class needs unique hull ID's and the like. Fixing the base Industrial ships to not be such stupid hulls would be a better fit. People should consider taking them along in larger fleets for resupply for example, they should be able to fit prop mods, tank, and even some guns/launchers appropriate to their size. Personally I'd take them as BC sized vessels, but cruiser would also be fine, or make the tanky hull one size and the squishy hull the other (Tanky cruiser, squishy BC but with same base EHP as the cruiser for the extra space). Suddenly they no longer are stupid, you can choose to fit them decently rather than not even having the fitting room for a sensible prop mod, you can even fit them as a bait Q ship if you want then.
So it becomes all about the way you fit them rather than hard baked uselessness. And then we can all laugh at the pure cargo fits trying to take Niarja on as foolish, since there will actually be viable options. And convoys of pure haulers all being productive will be able to fight back, without needing to have escorts 'just in case' since they are their own escorts (Think WWII bomber convoys when the fighters didn't have the range to stay with them to escort). |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
369
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:49:07 -
[6] - Quote
Wrong forum.
Just battle fit your hulk or venture like everyone else. |
Reaver Lupus
Grey Reavers
0
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:55:09 -
[7] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Wrong forum.
Just battle fit your hulk or venture like everyone else. I actually don't even fly industrial most of the time. And you have to admit that those fits arent nearly as effective as dedicated battleships or battlecruisers. The entire point of this is one that can hold its own in a fight and even come out on top if the odds aren't too stacked against it, while appearing to present a tempting target for gate camps. It's basically a way to hunt the hunters. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5493
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Posted - 2015.05.17 03:06:41 -
[8] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Zura Namee
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
32
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Posted - 2015.05.17 03:31:53 -
[9] - Quote
So what you're saying is that you want a bastion-mode Marauder with an industrial skin so you can die to slightly more ganking dessies once you realize you can't escape? |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
195
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Posted - 2015.05.17 04:08:58 -
[10] - Quote
Reaver Lupus wrote:Inspired by ancient myths of those days when the Navies of governments sailed the high seas rather than the desolate stretches of space, an idea which was long lost is being evaluated for Space Faring usage by the various factions of Eve.
Increasingly irritated by the grievous losses and damages inflicted upon their supply chains by roving gangs of pirates and marauders, ship builders are beginning to design what would have been known as Q-ships in the distant past. These vessels bear outward resemblance to various industrial ships, most commonly freighters. However, this is merely a clever facade constructed around the design of a purely combat oriented ship. Highly advanced IFF's mimic those of their industrial cousins to avoid tipping off eager pirates who rely solely on their overviews, and cargo holds can be configured to appear to be holding valuable goods. These vessels are at home as advanced parties who travel ahead of convoys in order to preemptively spring any traps which may be set around gates, or mixed in with the convoy itself as wolves in sheep's clothing.
Their bulkheads conceal armaments rivaling those of battlecruisers and even battleships, and what they lose in maneuverability, they make up for in their ability to withstand blistering incoming fire, with the false exteriors and cargo bays of the ship providing buffer zones to critical systems. This comes at the cost of being unable to easily flee an engagement which proves to be too much of a challenge for their abilities, and the crews on board know it. Their sole purpose and duty is to either defeat those who would harm them or their merchant brethren, or at least to fight to the bitter end and perhaps allow their convoy to escape.
It is predicted that these ships, if adopted, will quickly become a mainstay for any merchants or governments wishing to move high value cargo through dangerous reaches of the void.
Nice wording and shite, looking for detailed stats of suggested shite...ship. |
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Daerrol
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
160
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Posted - 2015.05.17 05:33:33 -
[11] - Quote
TL:DR give DST 4 turret slots and 5% bonus to racial weapons |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
393
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Posted - 2015.05.17 06:27:50 -
[12] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:TL:DR give DST 4 turret slots and 5% bonus to racial weapons
All I ever wanted is just one turret slot and enough PG to fit a 1400mm Howitzer II.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
964
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Posted - 2015.05.17 07:34:09 -
[13] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Or.... We could take a page from the days of the spanish main. And stop insisting industrials must be flimsy targets fit only for ganking and cowering in fear. Instead we decide what size vessel they are equivalent to and give them base EHP and fittings to match up to and including unbonused turrets/launchers in the same number as standard for vessels of that size, and then sit back and watch all the emergent game play surrounding them emerge. Caveat on this to make it practical is Cargo extenders would need to get stacking penalties added so that 50% of the cargo isn't in the 6th extender you fit.
Industrial ships that were designed more along the lines of a Spanish Galleon or Dutch East Indiamen would be a lot more interesting than the loot pinata designs we currently have in Eve.
As I see it, the Galleon type ships would hold more but be less combat capable than a T1 cruiser. The East Indiamen types would hold less, but be as combat capable as a T1 cruiser.
With that said, it is still of limited utility, since the best tank/gank combination would always be a scout. Most of the time if I am actually hauling something, I don't want to get caught. I want to evade as much as possible. If I do get caught in an industrial, it's because I royally screwed up, or I am bait.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
393
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Posted - 2015.05.17 07:36:02 -
[14] - Quote
The Gnosis has base 900 m3 cargobay.
Just staying.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
387
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Posted - 2015.05.17 08:48:05 -
[15] - Quote
Q ships would be hillarious i'd be SO GAME for freighters with scary broadside weapons bays... |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
287
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Posted - 2015.05.17 09:23:49 -
[16] - Quote
Could anyone explain his idea to me without all the lore talk? |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
197
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Posted - 2015.05.17 09:47:59 -
[17] - Quote
Sounds like another combat Orca. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1153
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Posted - 2015.05.17 09:48:31 -
[18] - Quote
Reaver Lupus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:This is such a new and never before seen Idea, I endorse it completely! And these ships totally wouldn't be OP and used in ways the creators didn't anticipate. Happy Sarcasm day yall! It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood. it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents.
Battle Nereus already exists and is comparably way more effective than Q ships ever were.
Q ships as you say were to kill subs which were relatively fragile and poor surface combat vssels. Some Q ships were also used as merchant raiders against unarmoured and poorly defended cargo ships. They were never really considered ships of the line. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
369
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Posted - 2015.05.17 10:15:09 -
[19] - Quote
Reaver Lupus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:This is such a new and never before seen Idea, I endorse it completely! And these ships totally wouldn't be OP and used in ways the creators didn't anticipate. Happy Sarcasm day yall! It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood. it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents.
You should also mention the use of Q ships wasn't very successful historically.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
637
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Posted - 2015.05.17 11:17:23 -
[20] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Could anyone explain his idea to me without all the lore talk?
they want a better battle badger.
A battle badger with apparently a BS level tank.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
395
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Posted - 2015.05.17 11:23:06 -
[21] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Celthric Kanerian wrote:Could anyone explain his idea to me without all the lore talk? they want a better battle badger. A battle badger with apparently a BS level tank.
PLS a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ Battle Badger a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2497
|
Posted - 2015.05.17 12:01:48 -
[22] - Quote
Avoiding fights is More practical than winning a fight when it comes to survival in eve. Which is why they gave you a quick and tanky hauler for each race.
If you REALLY want a Q-ship, then put cargo expanders on your rokh.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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The Boogieman
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2015.05.17 12:06:40 -
[23] - Quote
My feelings are its not a good idea, but I have no explanation why. The mega-alliances wont like it so we shouldn't. It hurts my heard to think about it, so it should be to hard to figure out. This idea may be realistic and useful but its still not a good one and thread should be locked because of reasons. I have feelings I wont like it, stop posting.
This qualifies as an afk and would be abused by bots. |
Ansharah Opium
The Opium Sisters
1
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Posted - 2015.05.17 12:25:07 -
[24] - Quote
Tasty idea is tasty.
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
353
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Posted - 2015.05.17 13:42:03 -
[25] - Quote
I am not buying this "indies don't have tank" line. My t2 indies can tank 2000DPS for a time. Or alternatively have large EHP buffers.
Add more tank and it changes only one thing. How many more ships do I need to use to gank it. Shooting back won't help either. Its a gank. They gank (we have) battleships.....
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Farlas Ibana
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.05.17 14:30:05 -
[26] - Quote
If we are going to go down this route - and i actually think it would both be an interesting game mechanic / play style AND a likely development by empire ship building corporations - it should be expanded to Exhumers as well as industrials.
It would make gameplay at the major 'pipes' of Uedama/Sivala and Niarja/Kaaputenan much more interesting for both haulers and gankers.
Not to mention finaly giving an option to combat the so far unhindered gank squads of CODE and the New Order.
A skiff with turret points, An Itty V / deep space transport with extra turret slots.
It would need to be an improvement of existing designs, so the exhumer would still be seen to be mining, and scanning the cargo bay would still show the industrial to be carrying cargo worth losing a gank ship for.
Perhaps time to share the tears back to those that currently gank miners and industrialsts with relative impunity.
As has been mentioned above, this would be a natural development in the ongoing battle of defence vs attack that has been driving ship design since the first ocean going armadas and applies as much in new eden as it did on ocean going vessels during the two world wars and as early as the 16th Century.
CCP, we hear you want the game to expand driven by player input - and ganking is a game-style. Anti-ganking development could also become a natural response to this and create an excellent new addition to game-style. Give us the tools we need to fight the like of CODE and new-order, and force them to adopt new tactics to counter a threat to their style. Currently, Ithink they are getting rather fat and lazy on the easy meat of Industrial and miners tears - they would enjoy the challenge.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
638
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Posted - 2015.05.17 15:15:11 -
[27] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:I am not buying this "indies don't have tank" line. My t2 indies can tank 2000DPS for a time. Or alternatively have large EHP buffers.
Add more tank and it changes only one thing. How many more ships do I need to use to gank it. Shooting back won't help either. Its a gank. They gank (we have) battleships.....
I am actually thinking some ulterior motives here tbh. I'd see gankers liking this ship more tbh. I see say 10 of the common suicide rides in undock/gate....I think that can't be good. 10 of these....its just a hauler, right? While not an offensive beast I have seen the work a good battle badger can do if a bad ganker meets a skilled pilot in battle badger. Give it some more ehp....guessing more guns with this...possibilities start to expand.
That and just not buying your average empire hauler just up and getting that bloodlust. Implies some pvp skill there. Which oddly enough if they had this...gettting ganked wouldn't be a problem as much. I fly empire with the same diligence I flew in 0.0. How did I kill that hauler in 0.0 becomes the basis for what I don't do when in a hauler to avoid making that mistake.
It won't be 0.0 using this in empire or out of it. In empire alt hauling is a means to an end. Get stuff to hub, sell it...back on main to have fun with the isk that makes. Don't need to burn a night baiting in a Q ship. NBSI gives ample stuff to shoot all night...no baiting for kill rights. Out of empire...camps that kill BS' not exactly rare. Why I have my crane fit that is fast as hell of gates...its how I moved crap in 0.0. Cleared camps in 0.0....does the same in empire.
5 on 1 wants a bs, its dead. Even t3 pilots know this. Why they buy bubble nullify subs lol. Sometimes the best way to not die...is to avoid the fight as best you can in the first place.
Low sec same thing....pirate/fw got better things to do than bait in q-ships.
WH's....same thing again. |
Reaver Lupus
Grey Reavers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.18 02:57:58 -
[28] - Quote
These definitely would still be vulnerable to hard hitting gate camps, but their key advantage would be in the surprise of facing unexpectedly heavy resistance from what appeared to be an unarmed and undefended convoy. They would either be able to make ganking more costly in lost ships, require larger ambush parties, or could just serve as sacrificial lambs that stay behind to slug it out until hull failure while the rest of the convoy makes their escape with the valuable goods, as often happened in real life.
These definitely would be a realistic development for the various ship builders, as there currently does exist a significant need for additional trade protections with Eve basically living in the Golden Age of Piracy. Eventually these developments would be countered by more heavily armed pirates or different tactics, but the need is there regardless. |
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
147
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Posted - 2015.05.18 04:28:46 -
[29] - Quote
TL;DR Bait Ship? |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
690
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Posted - 2015.05.18 04:43:01 -
[30] - Quote
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:TL;DR Bait Ship? Bait ship. Which show in overview as something they aren't, and the ability to bait without risking the modules used for bait. Oh, and BS level DPS and tank.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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