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Luka Terrlo
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Posted - 2006.11.13 00:37:00 -
[1]
For missions I am wondering whether to go passive shield tank or armour tank. At the moment since I can only use T1 modules i've seen people on passive tanks regenerate at least 50% faster than my current armour tanking skills can, for zero cap cost...
So I was just wondering what are some experts thoughts on passive tanking on a dominix vs. armour tanking? Which requires more skills to be effective/efficient? Does the high regeneration rate of a passive tank come at the cost of shield resistance, or involve any other sacrifices? Do you use a passive tank and if so what are some setups I could consider for a dominix?
Thanks in advance!
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Benglada
Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.13 00:58:00 -
[2]
active armor, use 5x cap rechargers in mids and you should be able to run 2 med reps forever (especially if your nossing) ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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Callistus
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:00:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Benglada active armor, use 5x cap rechargers in mids and you should be able to run 2 med reps forever (especially if your nossing)
You mean 2 large reps, right? --------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
June li
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: June li on 13/11/2006 01:30:22 I'm having trouble fitting two large rep'ers right now
The setup I was trying to pull off was: 6x Dual 250mm Railguns 5x cap rechargers 1x 1600mm tungsten plate 2x large armour repairers 1x cap relay 3x Active armour hardeners
But I come up about 260 powergrid too short with lv5 engineering. Replacing an armour repairer with another active hardener just doesn't cut it on a lot of missions with my current skills, so basically I end up having to lose a railgun and put something pointless there like a tractor, which just feels wasteful and leaves my gunnery feeling weak.
BTW sorry alt post.
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Futuri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: June li Edited by: June li on 13/11/2006 01:30:22 I'm having trouble fitting two large rep'ers right now
The setup I was trying to pull off was: 6x Dual 250mm Railguns 5x cap rechargers 1x 1600mm tungsten plate 2x large armour repairers 1x cap relay 3x Active armour hardeners
But I come up about 260 powergrid too short with lv5 engineering. Replacing an armour repairer with another active hardener just doesn't cut it on a lot of missions with my current skills, so basically I end up having to lose a railgun and put something pointless there like a tractor, which just feels wasteful and leaves my gunnery feeling weak.
BTW sorry alt post.
Maybe replace the 1600mm plate with another hardener or EANM? That will free up some PG and improve the tank, too.
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Demios Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Demios Khan on 13/11/2006 01:38:05 Im in a similar situation, kinda low on skills and just bought my Dominix. Presuming you have level 4 in the tanking skills for both shield and armor, and you want to tank against 2 types of damage, I havent found a passive tank that does as well as a armor tank.
Presuming that all lows/mids are used for tanking against kin/therm, setups with only unnamed tech I modules might look like this:
Armor tank 5x cap rechargers 1x cap power relay 1x LAR 2x kinetic hardener 2x thermal hardener 85% resists to kin/therm, regens 50 hp/second, enough to tank 333 DPS kin/therm forever
Passive shield tank 2x kinetic hardener 2x thermal hardener 1x large shield extender 7x shield power relay 83%/77% resists to kin/therm, regens 52 hp/second at peak, enough to tank 260 DPS kin/therm forever
The passive tank also totally destroys your cap regen, putting it at 1.86 cap/second at peak. Jumping around in such a ship isnt a whole lot of fun, 1h40min cap recharge time FTL. You would need NOS to feed the hardeners (or use passive hardening that would put it at tanking 150-200 DPS at peak).
Your friends regenning a lot at peak isnt something to be concerned about, a setup with 5x large extenders and 7x SPRs would put you at 106 hp/second regen, but without hardeners it would only be enough to tank 163 DPS at peak.
Edit: I tried making a setup with dual LAR, that runs forever, but it would only tank about 300 DPS and still needed some NOS to keep it going.
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Lightof God
Caldari Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:40:00 -
[7]
fecking alts gods eye is me
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Gods Eye
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:40:00 -
[8]
Do you have a skill called advanced weapons upgrades? If not and I suspect that you do not get it and train it you will find that allot of fittings that were impossible suddenly become possible
If you have that skill at lvl 5 then you are pretty out of luck then :(
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Tasa Blue
Crisis Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:41:00 -
[9]
My setup for NPCing with a Domi included a passive, dual LAR2 rep as follows: Highs: Basicly whatever, I used Some large NOS and a tractor beam. Mid: 5x Eutectic Cap Recharger Low: 2x LAR2, 2x Cap Relay, 2x EANM2, 1 Energized Reactive 2
This can pretty much tank anything, forever, assuming your energy skills are at V.
Take a look at the ships setups sticky about the Domi, there are some interesting setups in there with an active tank.
--- I'll be your huckleberry... |
Kussoth
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:42:00 -
[10]
Highs: Drone Augmentor *2, Tractor Beam, and a Small Laser, NOS (Pulls aggro, uses No ammo... I am that cheap) Mids: 5 Capacitor Rechargers Lows: 4 Hards (Rat Specific), Capacitor Power Relay, Large Armor Rep, Medium Armor Rep
Just swap in t2 wherever you can... I use t2 reps, and named items are in the rest.
Drones, I pack rat specific... 375 M3 is a lot of space, so make use of it.
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June li
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Posted - 2006.11.13 02:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gods Eye Do you have a skill called advanced weapons upgrades? If not and I suspect that you do not get it and train it you will find that allot of fittings that were impossible suddenly become possible
If you have that skill at lvl 5 then you are pretty out of luck then :(
Thankyou I had completely forgotten about that skill. The book has been sitting in my hangar for some time, but i've got so many skills on the priority list it's easy to forget
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Demios Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.13 02:15:00 -
[12]
Edited my earlier post to include the effects of using named modules and a a LAR+MAR setup. Passive shield tank seems vastly inferior to active armor tank for your Dominix.
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Alan Bell
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.13 03:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Alan Bell on 13/11/2006 03:58:10
Originally by: Demios Khan Edited by: Demios Khan on 13/11/2006 02:16:40 Edited by: Demios Khan on 13/11/2006 02:12:12 Edited by: Demios Khan on 13/11/2006 02:05:45 Im in a similar situation, kinda low on skills and just bought my Dominix. Presuming you have level 4 in the tanking skills for both shield and armor, and you want to tank against 2 types of damage, I havent found a passive tank that does as well as a armor tank.
Presuming that all lows/mids are used for tanking against kin/therm, setups with only unnamed tech I modules might look like this:
Armor tank 5x cap rechargers 1x cap power relay 1x LAR 2x kinetic hardener 2x thermal hardener 1x EANM 85% resists to kin/therm, regens 50 hp/second, enough to tank 333 DPS kin/therm forever. Removing the cap power relay puts cap usage only very slightly higher than peak regen, so you could probably replace it with a EANM letting it tank 390 DPS, or a MAR and feed it with named cap rechargers and some NOS to tank 500 DPS. With best named LAR/MAR it tanks 600 DPS, and only needs to make up for 11 cap/second with NOS.
Passive shield tank 2x kinetic hardener 2x thermal hardener 1x large shield extender 7x shield power relay 83%/77% resists to kin/therm, regens 52 hp/second at peak, enough to tank 260 DPS kin/therm forever. Replacing the extender with best named only moves the regen up to 55 hp/second, letting it tank 275 DPS.
The passive tank also totally destroys your cap regen, putting it at 1.86 cap/second at peak. Jumping around in such a ship isnt a whole lot of fun, 1h40min cap recharge time FTL. You would need NOS to feed the hardeners (or use passive hardening that would put it at tanking 150-200 DPS at peak).
Your friends regenning a lot at peak isnt something to be concerned about, a setup with 5x large extenders and 7x SPRs would put you at 106 hp/second regen, but without hardeners it would only be enough to tank 163 DPS at peak. Having 2.4x the hitpoint buffer doesnt mean much when every hit does 4.3x the damage (comparing with active armor tank).
Edit: I tried making a setup with dual LAR, that runs forever, but it would only tank about 300 DPS and still needed some NOS to keep it going.
i dont think that is a very good passive shield tank...
for against guristas, i can easily tank any triple spawns i please. to deal with distance, use sentries (kinetic damage).
highs: 3 425mm proto, 1 named nos, 2 drone augmentors mids: 4 t2 shield extenders, 1 kinetic hardner lows: 7 shield power relay
max regen 103 hp/s 0/60/73/20 resists
the resists are fine, because guristas use kinetic type missiles as a majority of their damage, and a very low amount of damage comes from thermal.
old sig |
Demios Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.13 05:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alan Bell Edited by: Alan Bell on 13/11/2006 03:58:10
i dont think that is a very good passive shield tank...
for against guristas, i can easily tank any triple spawns i please. to deal with distance, use sentries (kinetic damage).
highs: 3 425mm proto, 1 named nos, 2 drone augmentors mids: 4 t2 shield extenders, 1 kinetic hardner lows: 7 shield power relay
max regen 103 hp/s 0/60/73/20 resists
the resists are fine, because guristas use kinetic type missiles as a majority of their damage, and a very low amount of damage comes from thermal.
Well you made a tank that only works well against one type of damage, and used T2 mods. The one I posted was using T1 modules to tank two elements, kin/therm were just chosen as an example.
It is possible that belt rat Guristas use mostly kinetic, but from the NPC database, it looks like Guristas use a split between kinetic and thermal for missions (and OP wanted a mission setup). Check for example Worlds Collide on Eveinfo mission database: http://eveinfo.com/missions/242/eve-online-worlds-collide
Using only level 4 skills and named T1 modules, an armor tank with rechargers+LAR+MAR+CPR+hardeners can tank 800 DPS kinetic, your passive setup can tank 380 DPS kinetic, so I still think active armor tank is the way to go.
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aUTOKILL
Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.13 05:42:00 -
[15]
So, because you are going to be tanking a lot of stuff, go for active hardeners like the domi was ment to do as a Gallente ship.
High- Weapons/nos/tractor beam Med- 4x Cap rechargers, Heavy cap booster w/800 Low- 2x Large Accommidaion reps, rat specific hardeners Done Bay- Heavy and medium drones.
You should be able to run both reppers for as long as you need and use the Cap booster when you are going low on cap.
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Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.13 07:17:00 -
[16]
ôlows: 7 shield power relayö I recommend you donÆt do that. You need 1 perhaps 2 PDS modules in there otherwise cap becomes a real problem. You can just about get away with 7 really with passive hardeners and no turrets but with turrets you will run out of cap and be stuck drifting in space.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Benglada
Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.13 08:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Benglada active armor, use 5x cap rechargers in mids and you should be able to run 2 med reps forever (especially if your nossing)
You mean 2 large reps, right?
edited ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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Alan Bell
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.13 08:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pottsey “lows: 7 shield power relay” I recommend you don’t do that. You need 1 perhaps 2 PDS modules in there otherwise cap becomes a real problem. You can just about get away with 7 really with passive hardeners and no turrets but with turrets you will run out of cap and be stuck drifting in space.
actually i just hunt guristas in 0.0
so far, with 7 shield power relays, ive always been fine. very high drone skills are helpful, and i dont really need the guns except for the top triple BS spawns that can break my tank (kill 1 b4 past 30%, and im set) old sig |
June li
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Posted - 2006.11.13 08:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Benglada Edited by: Benglada on 13/11/2006 08:01:38 active armor, use 5x cap rechargers in mids and you should be able to run 2 large reps forever (especially if your nossing)
I'm having trouble running 2 large reps for very long. In fact, with 5 rechargers and a cap relay, I can't even cycle 1 large rep indefinately; it runs for a long time but eventually gets through my cap. And that's not firing weapons/using hardeners.
Just wondering what kind of level skills you need to get this working so I can just leave them to cycle so I can prioritise. And do any implants affect this stuff? Thanks
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 09:10:00 -
[20]
mathematically (using spread sheets and other wonderful nerdy tools), I've determined the best Domi passive shield tank to consist of 3x T2 large shield extenders, 2x T2 hardners (these will need to be passive hardners for a truely indefinate tank), as well as the 7x shield power relays in low.
With an appropriately fitted passive shield domi I can tank most angel BS spawns in 0.0 indefinately.
I even have a similarly fitted Ferox that can run a mining link indefinately while tanking most lower-level triple BS spawns.
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
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Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.13 09:22:00 -
[21]
ôactually i just hunt guristas in 0.0 so far, with 7 shield power relays, ive always been fine.ö I take it you use the Nos to bump up your cap here and there? Back when I used 7 relays Nos didnÆt work on NPCÆs so I forgot you can do that. Good idea you have.
Going to try and convert my Eos to fully passive tonight without active hardeners. A nos might be a good idea.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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