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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.20 05:16:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Korthan IF you've already posted this, then I probably missed it between all the 3000 word arguement posts some people have been having.
Mea culpa maxima.
Your wit makes me sorry we could not do business.
Still screwing the dictionary, baby. One long word at a time!
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Klasanov
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Posted - 2006.11.21 03:40:00 -
[62]
Would a business thats been around for 400 years have no need for loans?
Not always, neccessarily.
Is this a good analogy? No idea. Eve has a lot of similarities to business, however.
But, would the ISS outposts have gone through if every 3 year old player has access to a lot of funds? Maybe Shar has a lot of ISK tied up in assets. I know a guy worth billions, but says he has 300-700m ISK on hand in his wallet. People forget the billion dollar freighter is still an asset.
Anyway I trust Shar. I think. I haven't known him too long or talked to him recently but he does sound trust-worthy.
Would a business plan solve... anything? Enron had one. Look what happened with that.
All the same. You can't expect to go a bank and say "I just found an awesome business opportunity. I need a million dollars, but I'm not going to disclose what for." Of course, Shar realizes this and has said so, but believes for a reason not to disclose the plan.
Is this a scam? Well, I would say no. Call it intuition if you will. I haven't seen the business plan, so I have nothing other than that to back up my belief. Take that how you will.
Should you invest? Why even ask yourself this question? This is one you already know the answer to, because however much Shar says or does not say, you will either already trust him, or not. At least in this case.
He's already stated he's not divulging his business plan. I think his stance on this is rather solid. After all, you can't pry his teeth out with pliers...
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Elange4
Haven Industries Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 07:58:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Klasanov He's already stated he's not divulging his business plan. I think his stance on this is rather solid. After all, you can't pry his teeth out with pliers...
And, if we did, his tongue would have unfettered access to the outside world...
--Elange4
Haven Industries Business Plan HVID Blog: http://haven-industries.blogs |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.21 11:30:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/11/2006 11:30:21
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Bluespike This is the worst attempted scam i've ever seen. Anyone who invests in this is pathetic
And you are? I'd really like to know what you base this declaration on. This is not to mention calling alot of good people pathetic as well.
No, he's not. A lot of good people have said you are trustworthy. However, they are not "involved".
"And you are?"
I have never heard of you before this thread, so honestly, that is for you to answer, not the people posting in your thread.
Originally by: Shar Tegral You shame your alliance tag.
No, he doesn't.
People have every right to believe this is a scam. If someone wanted to cash in on their reputation, this would be one way to do it.
Odds are, its not a scam, but without suspicion, the EVE stock market would be dead. Insulting the skeptical is not going to get you any investors.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 11:48:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 21/11/2006 11:48:16
Originally by: Dark Shikari No, he's not. A lot of good people have said you are trustworthy. However, they are not "involved".
"And you are?"
I have never heard of you before this thread, so honestly, that is for you to answer, not the people posting in your thread.
Then youre a sucky forum ***** tbh. Shar used to run the Eve Guardian, a website with all sorts of interesting IC News. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.21 11:49:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/11/2006 11:49:26
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Dark Shikari No, he's not. A lot of good people have said you are trustworthy. However, they are not "involved".
"And you are?"
I have never heard of you before this thread, so honestly, that is for you to answer, not the people posting in your thread.
Then youre a sucky forum ***** tbh. Shar used to run the Eve Guardian.
Ohhhh... didn't remember the name.
Well I guess I do know Shar
But what I said still applies. Everyone has the right to be skeptical of an IPO, and in this case, with no public business plan, people have the right to call it a scam. Simply enough, they won't be investing, and others will be instead.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 11:53:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 21/11/2006 11:52:43
Originally by: Dark Shikari Well I guess I do know Shar
Youre just saying that because you dont want to be exiled from the 24 -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.21 13:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 21/11/2006 11:52:43
Originally by: Dark Shikari Well I guess I do know Shar
Youre just saying that because you dont want to be exiled from the 24
too late, the vote has begun ----------------------
[FTEK] Pwning Eve Carebear Style |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:39:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 21/11/2006 16:39:28
Calling me a fraud and a scammer is a level of statment that, as I said, I can not stop anyone from doing. However what I will challenge is flamebait disguised as insults to those around me. Neither creature is acceptable to me nor should it be acceptable anywhere. In particular such arrogant rudeness is unlike any Fix member I have ever known to date.
Of course times change, people change, and often enough many forget even where they came from let alone why they are here. For the Fix it is as much about how it came to be as how it has lived in it's time. The story goes back to Sept 2003 and stretches to this day. It is the first steps that we'll talk about today.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Harken ye back to years gone by. To a time where frigate, cruiser, battleship, and industrials where the complete sum of the game. Where skill training ceilings where being slammed into and 0.0 was a truly untamed place without POS's, Outposts, and/or Conquerable Stations. Where "game balance" were two words quietly whispered amongst the closest of friends, in secret, lest it reared it's ugly head up and dash you to your doom.
It was the time of the CFS.
The Coalition of Free Stars came into being back then. I had only recently been ostracized by TTI, for speaking to truth of all things, when a friend (Calladen Nimitz) invited me out to those western regions far from my former northern home. I declined having become a bit jaded (Ha!) from the TTI experience of politics and backstabbing. However like many I watched this dashing vibrant creature born. I watched in anticipation of seeing something good, something that brought peace and prosperity to the frontier, something that we all knew was doomed to die but many of us did not wish to face that truth. Many however embraced it so much that they were the instruments of its slow and lingering death.
From within as well as without.
Nothing has graced Eve, since that time, with the same sense of goodwill to its fellow man. In a time where corporate theft ran rampant, politics was nothing more than outright deceit without the velvet coverings, and when Jade Constantine overloaded everyone's patience with her excessive verbiage even in the simple "Hello", this alliance that had no alliance tools moved to some unclaimed space and made it available to anyone who wished to visit. Simple rules abounded for visitors mainly being nothing more intellectually challenging than not to defecate on our doorstep. Of course such simple manners are beyond the majority of this community.
As the months went by it became clearer and clearer that such cooperative democratic will could not stand against the forces of disorder. You can attribute much to game mechanics but also; the inherit greed of the CFS' neighbors (like the alliance formerly known as Fountain Alliance); rampant piracy by many now gone respectable; and the ego of CEO's who never understood the true depth of their own incompetence being so blinded by their own grand CEO-ness.
Finally it came to pass that everyone, even the leaders, could see that the CFS was doomed. It was dead just still going along from social inertia and diehard efforts from people loyal or foolish. However the founders of the Fix were not so blinded. They struck out on their own, they offered to some the chance to go along with them yet these clever few did not want the same spy corporations that were in the CFS nor did they want the leeches as well. No more of this be nice to everyone policy... NBSI was envogue and would be for time to come. (I wrote "The Fix is in" then documenting this break.)
The dream of Free Stars died then.
Still screwing the dictionary, baby. One long word at a time!
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:40:00 -
[70]
It is hard to say if such a dream ever had any place within Eve. Back then we had alot of scams going on, deciet and betrayal didn't just run through the game... it galloped. However there were still, for the most part, lines which had not been crossed. Levels of gameplay that quite simply just hadn't sunk to the depths of evil that has become such the benchmark standard of our current times. We lost much in the time that the CFS existed.
We lost our very own Camelot.
To this day it is rare for anyone to mention this great hope of Eve. You can't find anyone who doesn't remember them but it is like there are two groups of players. Those who are ashamed of having been so idealistic or those who rather not bring up their hand in destroying something better than they have been or will ever be.
In truth I don't weep for the CFS for they lived in their time by their own rules against all odds. There isn't a legendary name that did not try to mettle of the CFS and left with some respect. Don't let the egotistical rantings fool you, they were good... those CFS corporations that were active and true.
Weep instead for all of us. Weep for the fact that there are few things we can call good and just, weep for our loss of innocence and, most importantly, weep for the loss of hope.
Nothing like the CFS shall ever shine again in Eve.
Weep.
Still screwing the dictionary, baby. One long word at a time!
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.23 11:57:00 -
[71]
Well hopefully we can say settled on a few issues raised.
A: I am who I say I am.
I'm not exactly a great writer as many will happily flail about. However I do have a unique style of mixing blunt speech with more than a touch of melodramatics for effect. In this regard I am unique and the above story is as close to a confirmable signature as you can get.
B: I know something of Fix.
>Nothing needs to be said of this as I'm not offended in any regard tbh.<
Now I'm just waiting for some clever Eve researcher to honestly state that there has been no skeletons in my closet that they can find. And to allow for those who may wish to point out "that they can find" I do have one mar in my past that could be counted against me and its something I've never hidden.
I was once accused, quite loudly, of being a corp theif. And from that person's perspective I was. However facts and follow up activities proved to everyone that I was not a thief. Just a director who confiscated all corp equipment and funds before another director could go off the deep end.
Other than that... well after today's fun round of involuntary disclosures I'll just wait and see what anyone turns up.
And smile as the minutes and hours go by undisturbed.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
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Posted - 2006.11.23 22:04:00 -
[72]
Shar, I have one question. If an investor were to invest right now, what would be the estimated time until they would be "optioned out"?
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.24 12:11:00 -
[73]
Originally by: TheDevilsJury Shar, I have one question. If an investor were to invest right now, what would be the estimated time until they would be "optioned out"?
The first optioning outs, or the call option as the term should be more precisely, are planned to occur as soon as January 1. The desired, by me, rate of call options per month is place at the minimum of 4 options per month.
This of course is depending upon the size of each investor's stake. Those who have invested only 100M will be out at their first call option. Those who have invested 500M will live through 5 calls. Mind you that the order of precedence is to those who invested early... leaving them the option to stay in longer or get out earlier.
Also, my records (excel) does prorate the investment value as far as the monthly coupon rate is concerned. So investing today will get you less than 50% on this month's bond payments, to the investors, than if you had invested straight away on Nov 13th.
This pro-rating will also be applied to any call out. If your call option is exercised, voluntarily or involuntarily, the current portion of the monthly bond payment will be added to the call option amount of investment + 20%.
I.e. Call Option = ((Investment * Current Coupon Rate) * Elapsed Percentage of Month) + (Investment + (Investment * 20%)
I hope this answers your question.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Vix3n
Power Corrupts Trading Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:29:00 -
[74]
[[Shar Tegral for President]] That was truly an emotional speach Shar. /impressed.
Bumper sticker material if I'VE ever seen it:
Originally by: Shar Tegral Of course times change, people change, and often enough many forget even where they came from let alone why they are here.
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Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 14:51:00 -
[75]
Why does it have to be so complicated?
Somebody said that the business idea is not unique. So why the need for the unique RP stuff about FIX and the overly complicated method of cashing out? This is like Dr Evil investing and I feel like Scotie saying "why dont we just kill him right here and there instead of making some overly elaborate plan that allows him to escape."
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:03:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Rthor Why does it have to be so complicated?
It seems that you never get tired of trolling me. Did I upset you in a previous alt-life or something? But to answer your question here goes:
A - Because people like it when there is some level of fairness or equity in any situation they may find themselves.
B - Not having answers for these various concerns may appear like this has not be completely thought out.
C - Some enjoy the mental stimulation provided for by grade school algebra.
D - I feel like doing it this way and tough cookies for you.
Was there anymore you'd like to whine about mate? I wonder which will come up short, your ceaseless whines or my ability to respond to them.
Oh and thanks for the bump.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Calladen Nimitz
Caldari Sovereign Labs
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:25:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 25/11/2006 01:33:47
I have had the opportunity to talk to Shar about his business and his plans for the future. He told me the gist of what he is planning to do and how he will do it and I have agreed not to reveal his plans to anyone. I am also aware two others were told (his first two investors I believe).
I will be investing 200m isk in this plan and I do believe it is viable.
That is not to say I agree with Shars denial of information and his guarding his income stream as he is. Still it is being presented as is and knowing that going into it I'm still comfortable with it.
Most of my "trust" comes fron knowing Shar since Beta. Like I said back on Page 1 yes Shar can be a real xxx sometimes but in a way I like that better than I do the politician like speel of some people. With Shar you know where you stand and he isnt going to "flip-flop" around changing his position for whatever presents itself. Shar is Shar and I can accept that.
I will be investing and we'll see what happens. Like every investment it "could" be a scam but in this case I know the man well and I trust him myself. No one should take my word alone to make a decision for themselves. Do what you are comfortable with yourself. I am comfortable investing myself.
Calladen Nimitz
SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS |
Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.11.25 03:08:00 -
[78]
Seems like a nice guy... but I've only met him once... on sisi.
-NateÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click] |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:47:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Nate D Seems like a nice guy... but I've only met him once... on sisi.
LOLOL.
With greater exposure you may correct that to decentÖ and not so strong a position as niceÖ.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 05:44:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 27/11/2006 05:47:32
Due to the upcoming Kali release I have provide all coupon holders payment a few days in advance of the scheduled date. It is mostly a precautionary measure to avoid any server issues creating late payment on my part. Also due to the confusion surrounding Kali and its deployment I am closing the project to any interested investors on the 28th. Anyone who chooses to invest today, being the 27th, will be included in the scheduled coupon payment for the month of December. This will include any new investor as well as any that have expressed intent but have as of yet failed to commit. I have provided an intial report for public information. This will be where any updates will be listed in the future. This report location and/or any direct statements from me should be considered the sole source of any comments, statements, or implied contracts with any validity, substance, or obligation. In plainer words; If I don't say it it doesn't mean crap. Don't like it, tough. Edit Note: My link fu was weak, I am not worthy.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
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Armi Tage
Caldari Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:19:00 -
[81]
Shar, I will evemail you today, think I have enough cash lying around for that investment.
I know Shar from the alliance I'm still in, and know him als a thrustworthy albeit tartly person
fix Interbus Missions - don't remove them |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 15:04:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Armi Tage Shar, I will evemail you today, think I have enough cash lying around for that investment.
Look forward to it. I'll be online one last time to make last minute skill settings but that'll be it for me until TQ comes back post patch. So if you don't catch me, just drop the money in and shoot me an evemail.
I'll still see that you dropped it if you don't but it's nice to hear from an old friend.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.27 16:47:00 -
[83]
I'll throw 100 mil down the well and see if anything floats back up. I'll contact you to figure out a few details.
--P
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2006.11.27 17:01:00 -
[84]
The question I have is, what happens if something goes wrong? In my case, the investors know there's a chance the carrier can go *boom* while transporting company assets, and while I've done everything in my power to minimize that chance, they've nonetheless signed on knowing it exists. In your case, if the business collapses around you in the worst way imaginable (let's say everything the company owns loses inherent value due to a game mechanic change and/or everything the company owns gets blown up), you're covering the call with your personal isk. At which point, I'd be looking for proof--do you have (investment total * 1.05) isk available in your personal wallet? Or, are there some factors to lessen investor risk?
I can accept that I must trust you, as a person, in order to invest in this vehicle. But I do not understand what would happen if, in the course of executing a secret business plan with an unknown potential for risk to capital, Bad Things (tm) happen, and you are no longer physically have the capability to fulfill your commitments. Answers I can see include:
- Less than 100% of the capital is at risk during operations, and I have (xx%) personal isk on hand that I can use to compensate investors in the event the risked portion should be lost.
- There is a risk, but it is infintesimal (something along the lines of, "Well, the mods might ban my account for cursing in Local in Jita"), and I have the (0.05 * total capital raised) "gratuity" available in my personal wallet.
- I will mine Veldspar in Amarr(1) (or similar) to replace lost investor isk should it become necessary, and will make up for the subsequent delay in bond payments with [apologies||interest].
- There is an amount of risk, 0 < risk < 1.0, and I choose not to disclose it. Invest in me or don't.
MP
1: Of course, you'll have to fight Chribba for it.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.27 17:40:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet I will mine Veldspar in Amarr(1) (or similar) to replace lost investor isk should it become necessary, and will make up for the subsequent delay in bond payments with [apologies||interest].
MP
1: Of course, you'll have to fight Chribba for it.
ALL YOUR VELDSPAR ARE BELONG TO ME!
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 17:42:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet 1: Of course, you'll have to fight Chribba for it.
I've already reviewed this particular tactic and have realized that the fight would not be ideally worth it. So I'll have to say, in answer to your questions, a little of all of the above.
I have the skills, resources, and experience in this game to make good on the debt. Barring fraps of me logging in and showing off my wallet, assets, and skills my saying so is going to be just that... my saying so.
Of course there are many in this thread who can, and have, already verified that I'm good for the risk. Some I've worked with so they do know what I bring to the table and some who simply know me for so many years that they are character witnesses.
Of all the ipo's and loan programs going on do you not find it odd that they only complaint, that seem to come up, is all about the fact that I don't disclose my business dealings or plans. To the public that is.
The only marketable thing I have, without a very unhealthy level of intrusion into my own account, is my credibility. I absolutely never lie. Mostly becuase there ain't a single one of you out there worth the effort. It is simply much easier, all in all, to say what there is to say direct and bluntly and move on. I keep my credibility and I get to tell people exactly what I think of them at the same time.
Win - Win.
As for risk protection: If there was zero risk there'd be almost zero reward. The only zero risk thing here is if I'm going to run off with the money. I couldn't hope to replace my character with the money generated so far and I would never find a toon that I could buy that I'd have this level of credibility invested with. So, I'm not running off or away with the money.
Is there the potential for catastrophic disaster? Yup, an extermination level event may happen on Dec 24th there by interupting me from making any subsqeunt repayments. Of course my business policies have this covered and all principles involved can react accordingly. (Plan = Bend over completely backwards and kiss your *** goodbye.)
There is no complete plan. There is competence and trustworthiness. And each venture pushes the bar of success a bit higher and higher. This time around it's by including public investors into the mix.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:36:00 -
[87]
So in other words you protect your investors by not disclosing your business plans. But that admits that there is a risk to your investors if your plans were to be out in the open. Now what stops somebody from investing whatever the minimum that you require simply to find out your plans and screw your investors. What steps have you taken to protect your investors from this?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:49:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Rthor So in other words you protect your investors by not disclosing your business plans. But that admits that there is a risk to your investors if your plans were to be out in the open. Now what stops somebody from investing whatever the minimum that you require simply to find out your plans and screw your investors. What steps have you taken to protect your investors from this?
I await your deposit so that you may recieve an answer.
Otherwise, sod off troll.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:02:00 -
[89]
I find it odd that you claim to "never lie." I have never met a person who never lied. I am very nervous when I meet somebody who claims to never lie, because something tells me that they are just doing it right there and then.
As admirable as it is to never lie I find the reason why you dont lie (that none of us is worth it for you to start lying) somewhat, should I say, hostile, condescending and aggressive and in overall contrast to the angelic and innocent image of never-lying-Shar Tegral. Could you comment on this seeming contradiction so I can better judge your trustworthiness and credibility before I invest?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Rthor As admirable as it is to never lie I find the reason why you dont lie (that none of us is worth it for you to start lying) somewhat, should I say, hostile, condescending and aggressive and in overall contrast to the angelic and innocent image of never-lying-Shar Tegral.
There is no contradication, troll.
I'm an asswhipe of the biggest proportions and never once have I or anyone else tried to paint a loving picture of me. Or at least I thought I was the biggest. I have now met you.
Getting smacked once by the mods wasn't enough was it you have to keep trying again and again.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
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