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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2006.11.13 18:56:00 -
[31]
Two things would vitalize low sec.
Casinos.
Black market, all loot being marketable only in low sec systems.
And those two only in select locations to make people actually having to traverse some low sec space to get to them, not just pop in to get their fix and then back out again.
Something's rotten with the state of the servers. |
Kakk0 Warui
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:09:00 -
[32]
Maybe I just don't know enough about the game yet, but these "increase low sec population" threads all seem to amount to people set for PvP wanting more people set for mining and PvE (read: easy meat) as targets.
While I'm not against getting people to low sec (I want to go there myself someday). I don't think it should be what is percieved as a lambs to the slaughter afair.
Missions moved to lowsec should be fundamentally changed, in that the ship setup to be effective in a mission should be similar to a conventional PvP fit. This would take away the "If a pirate finds you you are essentially dead" mentallity. Which I believe is more the reason lowsec is sparsley populated.
Also, there should be an option for people to run the same mission together. so for Lowsec missions, rewards and bounties should be the same for all. Rather than having one bounty split between the number of people running the mission. So you have a feeling of safety in numbers.
Basically, I think the way to populate low sec is not to nerf highsec, but make lowsec seem safer without necessarily making it safer.
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:18:00 -
[33]
Alright, how about this option.
1. Boost NPC pirates. Let's make them worthwhile to fight, maybe even seeing the rare Battleships in .2
2. For miners, have special items that rarely appear after a full cycle of mining. These items will be used in constructions of item that can be used to modifiy modules, suck as increased tracking, faster RoF. This items would be kinda like rigs, except for modules, instead of ships, but have no drawbacks, other than having to be mining in .1-.4 for a while to obtain parts needed for them.
This would attract people to low sec, better NPC rewards, and items used to boost the strength of their equiment, making them better overall. Just have to make it so ONLY low sec, not 0.0 or .5+ can obtain the items, or else it's pointless.
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Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:24:00 -
[34]
♠♠♠♠♠♠ NEWS FLASH ♠♠♠♠♠♠
THE BEST AGENTS ARE ALREADY IN LOW SEC!
WELCOME TO YESTERDAYS NEWS!
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Donna Darko
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ingols There isn't enough negative reprecussions to piracy (like permanant security loss)...
Oh, please... What if your favorite action in the game "punished" you with permanent security loss? How long would you play?
Hell, even real life is more lenient than you. Stories. |
Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:28:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Detavi Kade on 13/11/2006 19:29:27 In-game ****, shown on those tv billboards, only in lowsec =)
That should do it.
-edit, dang it, filtered! ok..starts with a P, ends with N, has OR or RO in the middle. I sense a forum warning in my msg box soon.
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:39:00 -
[37]
Simple idea - move all level 3 and level 4 agents to lowsec. The rationale?
- Reality check! How would all those pirates maintain a foothold in CONCORD and navy patrolled space after over a year, especially with the level of missionrunners killing them? - Name one other highsec profession that can make even half the money level 4 grinders can.
Make risk vs. reward a reality, move ALL L3 and L4 missions to lowsec.
"Titans were never meant to be cost-effective, they're a huge ****" - Oveur |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:40:00 -
[38]
Easiest way to get mroe people into LoSec? Make the security ratings mean something.
As it is a lone player or small group is in more danger in a .4 system than in a 0.0 system. Two battleships running missions are in constant danger in a .4 system that is 2 hops from a 1.0 system. Two BSs shouldn't have to constantly watch over there shoulders in .4
The security ratings from .4 to .1 mean nothing, fix that and you will get more people into lower security areas.
As it is we have three security areas: Empire, Pirate and Alliance. --------------------------------------------------- MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... Play something different: EvE
LowSec != NoSec |
hobieone
Caldari Intergalactic Commerce Union
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:49:00 -
[39]
actually none of those reason is why no one goes to low sec!! this is basically beating a dead horse. the main reson people don't go to low sec and it been explained over and over again and again is the idiots that insist on gate camping to the point that it totally useless to even enter low sec becuase it become suicide to even remotely try with any ship configuration. and all moving level 4 or even level 3 mission to low will accomplish is to kill the mission wich willbe useless do to most mission runner s will quit becuse the gate camps will make it impossible to reach the npcs as usual. only solution is make gate camps impossible to do unless its a sec 0.0 zone. and leave pvp as it stands in lows sec
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: hobieone actually none of those reason is why no one goes to low sec!! this is basically beating a dead horse. the main reson people don't go to low sec and it been explained over and over again and again is the idiots that insist on gate camping to the point that it totally useless to even enter low sec becuase it become suicide to even remotely try with any ship configuration.
Its not the gate camps that keep people out. Its that once you get past the camps, you realize its not worth the effort to beat the camp. If you could make a lot of money in low sec compared with high sec, people would do it more.
Right now there is very little incentive to try to break those camps, because the difference in what you can make in high sec and low sec isnt that big.
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Jason Kildaro
Minmatar Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:04:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Jason Kildaro on 13/11/2006 21:12:37 Interesting problem. I think low sec does need to be more viable for players but not to the point where it would make alliances come snooping into low sec.
Level 4 agents - well we already have those but I think the difference needs to be bigger. Keep level 4's in high sec as they are but make the low sec agent payout much more LP and reward for the mission runners added risk. Cut the loot down in high sec missions and boost it in low sec. The introduction of modules should bolster the markets in low sec to the point where buying stuff makes a low sec shopping run worth it.
Ore - hmmm...I think we could see a boost in the 10% and 15% ores like "fiery kernite" stuff. More ice would boost this area as well.
Markets - station NPC's should buy the trade goods at awesome prices so traders have incentive to travel there. Buy low in Empire and sell high in low sec. Afterall these low sec NPC's should be hurting for some goods since the traffic is less dense anyway.
These changes are worthwhile to budding corps but not so profitable to 0.0 corps to warrant expanding into low sec. 0.0 alliances don't normally run missions and have no time to mine the mid grade ores, nor do they usually NPC trade much.
What do you think of these ideas?
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:24:00 -
[42]
welll if they are going to introduce those 0.0 sentry guns, might as well make lowsec more profitable. it's definitely more dangerous then a lot of alliance space atm.
though i think a much better system would be a more complex dynamic one that reduces and increases belt rat and ore quality based on how hard its been farmed recently, and keep the same concord in highsec, sentries in lowsec, and nothings in 0.0. it permanently ensures that the safest places are the least profitable and wherever it is most dangerous at the time, it is the most profitable, no matter what the current politics of the area are atm.
1000% awesome guide to logging out |
hobieone
Caldari Intergalactic Commerce Union
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:46:00 -
[43]
yes, i agree tho something definatly needs to be done to make it more worth while to enter low sec. my prob with gate camps is normaqlly if i go into low sec it mainly to peck a fight to break up the boredom of mission running. yes i admit i'm as mission runner primarily but do dabble in pvp from time to time and trying to fight through a gate camp isn't worth just going into low sec for some bounty hunting on some pirate or to get the drop on someone for an ocaasional pvp action.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Alekseyev Karrde
The Royal Guard
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:48:00 -
[44]
Could add CONCORDish bounties to gate camping pirates. And not just the pods, but ships to. There are alot of anti-pirate corps in EVE and coming from one of them, i can tell you:
Fun yes. Profitable no.
If there's incentive for the players to go out and organize+risk the rescources needed to break a pirate gatecamp, then low sec will be better. The pirates will still camp, but now at least there's incentive to fight them rather than wait till they get bored or give up all together, as many empire dwellers do.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:50:00 -
[45]
Perhaps more trade goods, to get people into low sec to haul it out. Perhaps even freightor sized goods, i.e 100,000m3 items, to get more freightors into low sec --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Perhaps even freightor sized goods, i.e 100,000m3 items, to get more freightors into low sec
Gooooooooooooooooood idea!
-------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
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Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.13 22:02:00 -
[47]
This is just responding to OP. The problem with the proposal is this: At first, lots of "carebears" would go into low sec because of the massive profitability. Soon after, lots of pirates will go into low sec because of the large numbers of "carebears" there. Soon after that, there will be so many pirates there that the "carebears" realize that despite the profitability of low sec, the risks just isnt worth it, and they will go back to high sec, returning us to the problem we have right now.
Alternatively, Daos and I have proposed an idea to repopulate low sec, just clicky on the link in my sig. We'd love to hear your thoughts on it, DS :)
Repopulate Low Security!
Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 22:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Serapis Aote Dont move all good agents to low sec. Dont force people to have to go there. Make it so they want to go there because it is worth it. It currently isnt worth it.
But if L4 agents *were* all moved to low-sec, don't you think it'd be worth it then?
/Ben
How to fix Eve |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.13 22:56:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/11/2006 22:56:52
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: Lord WarATron Perhaps even freightor sized goods, i.e 100,000m3 items, to get more freightors into low sec
Gooooooooooooooooood idea!
The more I think about it - the better it gets. Freightors pilots hiring pvp escorts in order to grab trading gear from a "stratigicly placed" station which has tradegoods worth something.
As for lvl4 mission runners, I think moving lvl4 agents to low sec will just nerf 0.0 officer loot, as people will just take t2 setups to run lvl4's insted. My suggestion is that low sec lvl4 agents need a big boost, to put them back to what they used to be bounty wise, then you will get people risking their ass. And I say this as a 0.0/low sec lvl4 runner myself :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.11.13 23:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/11/2006 16:51:57
Bear with me, this is just a crazy thought I had a minute ago.
Currently, people complain that there is no reason to go to low sec. There have been all sorts of radical ideas tossed around, like moving all level 4s to low sec and so on. Of course, the mission runners complain because honestly, low sec is more dangerous even than 0.0 in many cases.
So here's the crazy idea... make low sec more profitable than 0.0. It fits in perfectly with the risk vs reward concept and would revitalize piracy as a whole (even with 0km warp) because people would have reason to actually mine the belts or kill the NPCs: they wouldn't solely go to low sec because of autopilot.
Am I crazy? Or might this actually work?
Here is the thing why this prolly will never work and is one of eve pitfalls. The moment you make it truly worth the risk for the casual or solo player, is the moment it becomes OOODLES of easy money for an organized corp.
Problem is right now that low sec/empire is really just for solo/casual play/very small corp types, so it doesnt take alot to make it dangerous. to make it worth the risk of losing a 500mill ship you goto seriously jack the rewards up, because it is for more easy to loose a Mission or mining set up ship in low sec than it is in 0.0, primarily due to the fact you will have alot of people in the system in low sec where as people find empty systems in 0.0 and use local to alert to danger, in low sec msot systems have too many names to know when it is really safe.
So with a system actively pirated in low sec your can be sure to loose a ship every ten runs easily. What kinda reward you need to make ground on paying for a 200 mill BS set up every 10 runs? Heck i will wager more than every 10 to be honest.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.11.13 23:16:00 -
[51]
"Maybe I just don't know enough about the game yet, but these "increase low sec population" threads all seem to amount to people set for PvP wanting more people set for mining and PvE (read: easy meat) as targets."
LOL, yes that is the exact nature of the problem in eve. you got a set of players in pvp set up ships and gangs, wanting to have people in none pvp ships/gangs handed to them on a platter to be pk'd, instead of them actively hunting other people in pvp set ups.
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Jason Kildaro
Minmatar Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.14 01:32:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Maybe I just don't know enough about the game yet, but these "increase low sec population" threads all seem to amount to people set for PvP wanting more people set for mining and PvE (read: easy meat) as targets."
LOL, yes that is the exact nature of the problem in eve. you got a set of players in pvp set up ships and gangs, wanting to have people in none pvp ships/gangs handed to them on a platter to be pk'd, instead of them actively hunting other people in pvp set ups.
There is a misconception about low sec. Is it more dangerous than Empire....yes. Will you get ganked every 10 missions? No. I am not a pirate or gate camper and I have lived in low sec for a while now. It is not as bad as some of you make it out to be. Do I have to watch myself on travels to the gate....sure do. Do I have to check the map every once in a while to make sure I'm not running into a snipe fest...yes. But in general, I don't lose ships in missions. I don't have to run around with a gang either. Now my area of space is probably quieter than most so it may be an exception to the rule.
Not everybody is looking for a gank. Some of live out there because it is not sooo crowded and me personally, I like the sense of danger. I hate being in this MMO and not doing things with other players. I get more player interaction out here. What I am looking for is a market. I hate running to Empire and trying to sell stuff off at a hub with 500 other people. I have a dream of making MORE regional markets. I think most people will find there is good business to be built out here.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.11.14 01:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Instead, low sec empire should simply remain the intermediate risk place it is (intermediate on a group level, not neccesarily on an individual level), but be graced with some unique resources that are part of integrated production chains. Preferably resources that do not involve instances or semi-afk POS management to extract.
I would tend to agree, but low sec has no unique resources.
On the one hand it offers partial protection, through sentry guns, sec loss and incompatibility with warp bubbles and interdictor spheres. On the other hand, it reduces the flexibility of people wishing to fight defensively. So the intermediate security aspect is a double-edges sword which suits some people and not others. In this respect is is a perfect buffer between high sec Empire and 0.0.
But without offering anything to positively differentiate itself from Alliance 0.0 and high sec Empire, it becomes a no-man's land, a travel time sink, and gate sniper risk to most EVE players.
I think more thought needs to be given as to what it is for, and where it fits into the EVE economy.
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Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:00:00 -
[54]
I like the idea of adding higher ore quality to Lowsec... that would encourage specifically defenseless miners and pirates to hunt them. As it is now, its pointless to mine in lowsec near enough.
Fear is the mind-killer. |
Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:25:00 -
[55]
I agree.
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Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:32:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
Not everybody is looking for a gank. Some of live out there because it is not sooo crowded and me personally, I like the sense of danger. I hate being in this MMO and not doing things with other players. I get more player interaction out here. What I am looking for is a market. I hate running to Empire and trying to sell stuff off at a hub with 500 other people. I have a dream of making MORE regional markets. I think most people will find there is good business to be built out here.
You'd be surprised at how much YARRRRRRRBBQ'ers are willing to pay for gear in low sec, especially when they are outlaws. :) ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Valator Uel
Caldari Pax Minor Asylum Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.14 03:12:00 -
[57]
Low-sec is a typical catch-22 situation: - A player sees better isk can be made in low sec - Pirates see the player and gank him - Player decides low-sec isn't worth it and moves out - Pirate complains low-sec is empty
In a way I compare this to today's wildlife conservations efforts: you can either harvest a crop till nothing is left or leave enough to regrow for the next harvest. Yes ladies and gentlement, pirates should think like enviromentalists and oversee that their resource isn't hunted dry. If you have 20 pirate corps and alliances all fighting over a couple of systems then carebears will stay away. But if you have a pirate corp/alliance making sure that thier system is free of "other pirates" and thus considered safer (ie, inticing carebears to take more risks) then the population will start growing. Carebears don't pop out of nowhere, you have to make them want to come there.
As for moving agents to low-sec, imo that's a very shortsighted and selfish idea. All the tools to kill carebears in empire are there, you just need to want to spend a few for wars. Nothing is for free.
It's also selfish because not everyone wants to do full-time pvp. What makes EVE so unique is that there are so many ways it can be played. 24/7 players have time to plan things like POS's, get enough cash to pvp, take part in big alliance events etc etc. But remember that there are also those that play this game casually. A friend of mine for example only plays an hour or two per week, sometimes even less. He doesn't have time to make millions of isk, so pvp represents a heavy investment for him, and thus being ganked by 5 ships at a gate really spoils the game for him. Others like myself can invest a few more hours and buy a couple of T1 fitted cruisers, pvp a bit and then carebear till I got more isk.
To encourage people to go to low-sec don't remove all the benifits of high-sec. Instead of removing level 4 agents just make different missions for high-sec and better ones for low sec (Worlds Collide is a good example). Low-sec agents already give a considerable amount of extra pay and LP. Introduce better missions that don't exist in high-sec and people will start moving.
Bubbles in low-sec... bad idea if implemented "as-is". For haulers, bubbles mean certain death... and you want haulers in low sec. Carebears won't enter low-sec if they know there is a chance of certain death. Without going into a winding discussion, it all boils down to: give those who want to avoid fights the modules to do so, give pirates the tools to catch them, but neither of these should have a 100% chance of success. And don't give me the "get an alt scout" crap; I should be able to play this game with a single character. ----------------------------------------------- http://www.uozone.net/files/cic/val4_eve.jpg Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo |
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.11.14 03:14:00 -
[58]
ineffective bubbles in low sec perhaps 10% jamming chance
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Maximillian Pele
Caldari Jewel Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.11.14 05:17:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 14/11/2006 05:18:21 I was thinking about this issue the other night. Why does a corp go all the way to 0.0 to mine for zydrine when you can get it in low sec?
Why is mining in 0.0 safer than 0.4?
Answer - people.
The low sec PvP crowd - pirates, the odd anti-pirate, PvPers, etc - are really good at what they do. Without the hassle of maintaining POSes or Sovereignty in 0.0, and with the markets of hi-sec just a few jumps away, your low sec PvPer can concentrate on what they love - PvP.
So Just as certain alliances are the best at what they do, certain low sec PvP groups are the best at what they do.
Then add the security system. In 0.0 I can fire at anyone I want. In low sec - if I want to keep my sec rating high enough to go to high sec (without sending hours ratting while the corp waits) - I have to wait to be aggressed first. Hence unless I am in low sec to PvP, the deck is heavily stacked against me.
Now compare the relative rewards of high/low/no sec. With the exception of lone wolf or small gang PvPing low sec has the worst reward <> risk ratio in EvE if you are doing anything else.
NPCing - dead meat to a PvP ship + the rat bounties aren't high enough to make sharing worthwhile.
Mining - either ninja mine or don't bother. If you have the organisation to mine as a group with adequate cover to defend against pirate attack then you'll do it in 0.0 and make far more isk for the same efforts.
Hauling - escorts of limited use unless in large numbers. Best defence against snipers is scout alts and not hitting the camp.
Territorial defence - apart from a handful of systems there are always NPC stations so you can't really keep people out. Proactive ganking of non <4.9 threats ruins your sec rating and criminally flags you. A PvP force strong enough to secure a low sec system is again better used in 0.0.
So the problem always is the fact that anyone who can survive and prosper in low sec can do alot better in 0.0.
Note: Those high sec ice fields are actually diminishing - it's just that ice roids are so big and ice mining so slow they'll take years to all pop.
Note: missions are one of the major sources of funds for PvPers - so if you nerf missions you will hurt both pirates and PvPers who need another source of income to support their main activities.
The reason why low sec is such a loss and CCP seems little interested in fixing it is the fact that it is players who provide the risk/disincentives. Hence any adjustment to the risk is an adjustment to players.
All CCP can do is tweak the rewards, but if you make the rewards to great either the alliances move in or you get the ever present plague of isk farming.
It will be interesting to see the combined impacts of warp to 0 km, the 50% HP increase, the WCS nerf and the other changes that may be coming in Kali 1. Possibily this whole topic will become moot, maybe not.
In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite. |
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.14 07:17:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Siriyana
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
Not everybody is looking for a gank. Some of live out there because it is not sooo crowded and me personally, I like the sense of danger. I hate being in this MMO and not doing things with other players. I get more player interaction out here. What I am looking for is a market. I hate running to Empire and trying to sell stuff off at a hub with 500 other people. I have a dream of making MORE regional markets. I think most people will find there is good business to be built out here.
You'd be surprised at how much YARRRRRRRBBQ'ers are willing to pay for gear in low sec, especially when they are outlaws. :)
QFT, from experience - alt hauling sucks and wastes valuable YARRR time.
"Titans were never meant to be cost-effective, they're a huge ****" - Oveur |
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