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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
310
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Posted - 2015.05.22 21:10:22 -
[1] - Quote
As a person who makes his living in the revenge business, I'm curious why margin scamming is allowed to remain an anonymous activity? Doesn't EVE have consequences, even if they must be meted out by the players themselves?
I understand that the margin scams are conducted with meaningless alts, but there should be some record of the failed transaction with a name attached, so players can do what they will with the information.
In all honesty, if the SCC were a legitimate enforcement agency, margin calls would be made against these people and assets would be seized to satisfy the exchange. As that is not likely, the ability to identify the offending party and place a bounty or attempt to confiscate assets--that is, destroy assets--to settle the balance ourselves would be a welcome change.
CEO, Discreet Bounties
In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
420
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Posted - 2015.05.22 21:13:06 -
[2] - Quote
Sooooo... how much? |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2937
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Posted - 2015.05.22 21:18:32 -
[3] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:As a person who makes his living in the revenge business, I'm curious why margin scamming is allowed to remain an anonymous activity? Doesn't EVE have consequences, even if they must be meted out by the players themselves?
I understand that the margin scams are conducted with meaningless alts, but there should be some record of the failed transaction with a name attached, so players can do what they will with the information.
In all honesty, if the SCC were a legitimate enforcement agency, margin calls would be made against these people and assets would be seized to satisfy the exchange. As that is not likely, the ability to identify the offending party and place a bounty or attempt to confiscate assets--that is, destroy assets--to settle the balance ourselves would be a welcome change.
But it does , people fall victim to their greed wiithout looking at the price history tab and as such they must face the consequences of loosing their isk.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
310
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Posted - 2015.05.22 21:37:29 -
[4] - Quote
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:Sooooo... how much? A previous client inquired about placing a bounty on a margin scammer and asked if I knew of any way of identifying the guilty party. I asked around and found the consensus to be that this is indeed an anonymous crime.
I would like to place such bounties on such scoundrels, so I am somewhat saddened by CCP allowing a completely anonymous scam in the sandbox.
CEO, Discreet Bounties
In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2676
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Posted - 2015.05.22 22:00:20 -
[5] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote: Myself or someone I know got scammed
The general rule of thumb is that if it looks too good to be true, it IS too good to be true. Trust me, nobody is ever going to make a "drunken market mistake", and if they do, they sure wont be linking it in local.
Derek Quaid wrote: I would like to place such bounties on such scoundrels.
No, you wouldnt. Its pointless, and most scammers (or really anyone) wear bounties like a badge of honor. Bounties are totally useless in EVE.
Holeysheet1 is afraid of thunderdome matches.
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Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
310
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Posted - 2015.05.22 22:10:52 -
[6] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:No, you wouldnt. Its pointless, and most scammers (or really anyone) wear bounties like a badge of honor. Bounties are totally useless in EVE.
The purpose of placing bounties is to make ISK from them. When my clients place an anonymous bounty for free, they understand that any ISK refunded due to their target leaving the game is mine to keep. Because I'm here for the long haul, I don't mind the long turnaround on such payouts.
CEO, Discreet Bounties
In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
367
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Posted - 2015.05.22 22:17:19 -
[7] - Quote
Welcome to the game of alts. |
Paranoid Loyd
5337
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Posted - 2015.05.22 22:28:11 -
[8] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Leto Thule wrote:No, you wouldnt. Its pointless, and most scammers (or really anyone) wear bounties like a badge of honor. Bounties are totally useless in EVE.
The purpose of placing bounties is to make ISK from them. When my clients place an anonymous bounty for free, they understand that any ISK refunded due to their target leaving the game is mine to keep. Because I'm here for the long haul, I don't mind the long turnaround on such payouts. Margin scams orders would not be placed by mains, they would be placed by alts who most likely never undock and if they do it is in a shuttle, your bounty is wasted either way.
Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
311
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Posted - 2015.05.22 23:07:31 -
[9] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game. The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me.
Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)...
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.
CEO, Discreet Bounties
In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties
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Mag's
the united
19459
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Posted - 2015.05.22 23:20:09 -
[10] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:FFS, learn the mechanics of the game. Ironic.
You're here complaining about anonymity, yet anonymously place bounties for others?
But the other funny point is the whine about margin scamming. It relies upon some mug thinking they are about to get one over on another pilot and take them for some ISK. They then fail to check prices and dive straight in, only to be out PvP'd through the market.
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Paranoid Loyd
5340
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Posted - 2015.05.22 23:48:29 -
[11] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game. The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me. Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)... FFS, learn the mechanics of the game. So you're just a scammer, preying on the dumb just like other scammers, thanks for clearing that up.
I never said they are transferred on a kill by kill basis. Learn to read.
Either way, it still stands that you are doing nothing to the offending party by putting on a bounty on them. Bounties don't motivate anyone to kill others.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2678
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Posted - 2015.05.23 00:00:08 -
[12] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game. The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me. Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)... FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.
Blithering fool??
Wow.. That wasn't warranted at all.
Bounties are a useless mechanic, nobody bounty hunts. Please bounty me for several trillion isk. Nobody will ever care.
Holeysheet1 is afraid of thunderdome matches.
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
424
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Posted - 2015.05.23 04:12:19 -
[13] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.
FFS, learn the mechanics of the game. The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me. Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)... FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
424
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Posted - 2015.05.23 04:21:12 -
[14] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. That's actually a good service. I'd like to make use of it if you could?
I'd like to place a bounty on a dude I met on the forums, an out and out scammer. It would just be the minimum amount (100k I think?) because his scam is so bad he really isn't worth any attention above and beyond the bare minimum. It's basically a loan type scam where he takes people's money in exchange for promises he can't keep. Character name "Derek Quaid."
If you front me the money I'll give you 3x to play with (check API). Thanks. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5514
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Posted - 2015.05.23 05:40:47 -
[15] - Quote
Removed a redundant post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
136
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Posted - 2015.05.23 07:05:13 -
[16] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:Sooooo... how much? A previous client inquired about placing a bounty on a margin scammer and asked if I knew of any way of identifying the guilty party. I asked around and found the consensus to be that this is indeed an anonymous crime. I would like to place such bounties on such scoundrels, so I am somewhat saddened by CCP allowing a completely anonymous scam in the sandbox.
I don't know much about margin scamming, but shouldn't you be able to identify the person you bought the overpriced item from even if the resale was anonymus? |
Don Purple
Snuggle Society Snuggle Society.
1218
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Posted - 2015.05.23 07:51:49 -
[17] - Quote
I love me some loyd.
I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2940
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Posted - 2015.05.23 08:14:44 -
[18] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Removed a redundant post.
I think something went wrong , OP's post is still up ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2940
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Posted - 2015.05.23 08:20:38 -
[19] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote: Doesn't EVE have consequences, even if they must be meted out by the players themselves?
.
and then
Derek Quaid wrote: The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. .
So , you are complaining there are no consequences and at the same time you provide a service to dodge consequences.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2114
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Posted - 2015.05.23 08:36:28 -
[20] - Quote
I tend to agree with OP. I would like to see more market-induced PvP. Adding the name and corp to a market column would be a good start. Sure, it is mostly alts but those alts are often in corps which can be targeted.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
205
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Posted - 2015.05.23 08:48:39 -
[21] - Quote
Good luck taking revenge on someone who never leaves Jita 4-4. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2941
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Posted - 2015.05.23 09:41:41 -
[22] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I tend to agree with OP. I would like to see more market-induced PvP. Adding the name and corp to a market column would be a good start. Sure, it is mostly alts but those alts are often in corps which can be targeted.
The one you buy the overpriced items from to pull the margin scam off is the same person as the one with the 'fake order'.Not specifically the same character but at least the same person.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2941
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Posted - 2015.05.23 09:43:10 -
[23] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:Good luck taking revenge on someone who never leaves Jita 4-4.
Just like allmost every other scammer indeed.And even if they did , what would a bounty add to it?It never stopped me from undocking.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1069
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Posted - 2015.05.25 08:51:27 -
[24] - Quote
Wait a second!?! The OPs business model is to place bounties on other people? I hope this is a scam, because if it is no scam, this is probably the biggest fail "retaliation" model I have seen so far.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2694
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Posted - 2015.05.26 04:52:13 -
[25] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Wait a second!?! The OPs business model is to place bounties on other people? I hope this is a scam, because if it is no scam, this is probably the biggest fail "retaliation" model I have seen so far.
If it is actually his method of making isk, its really stupid, too.
So, the whole point of sending you isk is so you are the one to place it so its not coming from the "real" bounty placer, I just have to ask... Why couldn't I just make an alt and do it myself?
Are you good at dealing with customers so the engineers don't have to?
Holeysheet1 is afraid of thunderdome matches.
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Christopher Mabata
The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium
336
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Posted - 2015.05.28 16:20:13 -
[26] - Quote
This post assumes real world mechanics for a virtual market enforcement agency, which is generally not good practice to adopt here.
Besides Margin scams are laughably easy to spot, and the SEC has to Oversee trillions of people make trillions of exchanges every day across the 4 empires. Not just us, and im willing to be their underfunded too.
but that assumes real world mechanics too see the problem?
Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1191
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Posted - 2015.05.29 20:47:09 -
[27] - Quote
I'm personally all for something that adds the potential for PVP content to the game. Currently if you buy something from someone, you know who it is, whether you paid a reasonable sum, a ridiculous sum, or a laughable sum. If you paid the reasonable sum, maybe you can watch list them so you can adjust your own orders while they are offline. If you paid the ridiculous sum, you can swear revenge (only to realize they are a market alt and never leave 4-4 but oh well you tried). If you paid the laughable sum you can send them a mail to add insult to injury.
However in the current mechanics if you attempt to sell something to someone and fail, there is no record of who it was that 'wanted' to buy from you. I can see the benefit of having this information made available, however it would have to be available only upon the failure of the order, not simply listed with the market transaction for all to see.
Now, 999999/1000000 (is that the right amount of zeros? Screw it you get the point) times that information will be useless as it's a scamming alt who never leaves 4-4, but that doesn't mean that the information should be impossible to obtain.
Just my two cents.
And yeah, bounties are meaningless except as ways for criminals to pay each other compliments.
If you've found a way to long con people out of a bit of isk, I'm totally fine with that, good on you. |
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