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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
424
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Posted - 2015.05.23 15:07:18 -
[1] - Quote
Penalty being a 30% shield capacity reduction and Active Shield hardeners couldent be used.
Benefit being faster harvesting or larger yields at the expense of defenses. |
Iain Cariaba
1395
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Posted - 2015.05.23 15:34:14 -
[2] - Quote
Forums are constantly bombarded by people who fit their barges for yield over tank, then come here to cry about how a single catalyst did violence on their boats. This particular bad idea of yours will only do two things:
1: Cause more people to prioritize yield over tank, thus losing their ship and shiptoasting on forums about the "problem with ganking. 2: Cause more minerals to be available on market, thus driving the prices down further. This would have the effect of your income from mining remaining the same, and possibly dropping if enough people used the feature.
Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.
So, not supported by me. Should not be supported by any miner with a grasp on basic economics. If you want a long term reduction in your income through mining, then by all means keep supporting this bad idea.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
424
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Posted - 2015.05.23 15:39:09 -
[3] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Forums are constantly bombarded by people who fit their barges for yield over tank, then come here to cry about how a single catalyst did violence on their boats. This particular bad idea of yours will only do two things: 1: Cause more people to prioritize yield over tank, thus losing their ship and shiptoasting on forums about the "problem with ganking. 2: Cause more minerals to be available on market, thus driving the prices down further. This would have the effect of your income from mining remaining the same, and possibly dropping if enough people used the feature. Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money. So, not supported by me. Should not be supported by any miner with a grasp on basic economics. If you want a long term reduction in your income through mining, then by all means keep supporting this bad idea.
My idea gives miners the option of a risk reward element that they can determine themselves. EvE has always been about risk, increased risk to ganking is a gamble they take for more money. |
Hellen Killer
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.05.23 16:00:26 -
[4] - Quote
So another ship mode?
We have Siege, Triage, Defensive, Sharpshooter, ETC. Why not a Strip mode?
Tis the seaons for lots of modes. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective
744
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Posted - 2015.05.23 16:11:22 -
[5] - Quote
I support this stealth nerf to mining
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum BFFL of Mo
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Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2015.05.23 17:22:40 -
[6] - Quote
Hellen Killer wrote:So another ship mode?
We have Siege, Triage, Defensive, Sharpshooter, ETC. Why not a Strip mode?
Tis the seaons for lots of modes.
Do we really need strip mode? |
Jasmine Cheryu
Perkone Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.05.23 17:55:30 -
[7] - Quote
Specia1 K wrote:Hellen Killer wrote:So another ship mode?
We have Siege, Triage, Defensive, Sharpshooter, ETC. Why not a Strip mode?
Tis the seaons for lots of modes. Do we really need strip mode?
LOL, i almost spat my dinner all over my keyboard.. thanks
Ontop to OP's proposal I would like the following if overheating were possible for the material aquisition modules:
If we could overheat those mods: 1: they take heat damage like all other overheated mods... (and i believe you can repair those mods on the fly with repair paste?? correct me if i'm wrong) -- this should only REDUCE the spin time, and not the yield (there are reasons..) this means that people need to spend X amount of money on repair paste (or build themselves, but that doesnt mean its free..)... and it also gives players who actively mine an advantage over those who afk mine
2: whilst overheating those mods, cap for a single spin increases by X% and effectiveness of resistance modules is reduced by X%
I believe that would be a fair tradeoff.
Alternatively, leave mining as it is.... |
Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
45
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Posted - 2015.05.23 17:58:03 -
[8] - Quote
Or a strip mode that lock us in place and doesn't give any bonus to defense, only to cycle time
But seriously a overheating would need to be so good that it would compensate the price of the repairs of module or nanite paste at least.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
727
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Posted - 2015.05.23 18:18:17 -
[9] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote: Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.
True on a per unit basis. however, those who can take advantage of this effectively (thermo 5 skiff pilots) would vastly increase their market share and total units moved, leading to other issues.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
805
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Posted - 2015.05.23 18:48:58 -
[10] - Quote
The penalty for heating a module no matter what the temporary bonus gained is and should remain the eventual burn out of that module. It is the penalty for every other module in the game and I see no reason why it should not remain so nor do I see a compelling reason to make an exception in this case.
That aside I don't mind miners actually being able to overheat their strip miners or ice harvesters as long as burnout applies. Although I do have the feeling that any gains they make using heat would probably go straight into the pockets of nanite repair paste manufacturers.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
424
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Posted - 2015.05.23 18:51:46 -
[11] - Quote
It should have a reduction to heat damage as well.
Miners sit for longer periods of time and would probably require a break on heat damage as well. |
Iain Cariaba
1409
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Posted - 2015.05.23 19:48:53 -
[12] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote: Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.
True on a per unit basis. however, those who can take advantage of this effectively (thermo 5 skiff pilots) would vastly increase their market share and total units moved, leading to other issues. This would be true in the short term. However, in the long term, lower mineral prices will effect even the thermo 5 skiff pilot as more and more minerals are dumped on the market without an increased demand to give them a place to go.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
426
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Posted - 2015.05.23 20:22:14 -
[13] - Quote
This new feature would be advantages to miners and provide additional income at higher risk to their ships. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2458
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Posted - 2015.05.23 21:15:16 -
[14] - Quote
I like the idea of overheating mining lasers but it shouldn't affect your ship's defenses. You should be able to overheat them much longer than other modules can overheat, but still much shorter than a normal mining timeframe. The purpose of it could be to get a useful ore haul out before you're caught. Useless in highsec, as it should be. It could be a great way to use a venture or skiff.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
427
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Posted - 2015.05.24 01:54:39 -
[15] - Quote
A possible idea is to vary the affects depending on the harvester being used.
Longer range for ice harvesters.
Shorter cycle time for strip miners and modulated.
Higher yield for gas harvesting.
Higher yield for regular Miner modules. |
Panty Stocking
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.05.24 02:53:15 -
[16] - Quote
required for my support:
overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only
requires t2 strip miners
does 10x the amount of crystal damage and once the crystal is destroyed/removed, heat damage applies to strip miner module.
Reasoning: this would let miners keep mining when their non-overheated range is cleared out, while approaching the next group of asteroids. It is not meant to be used continuously, and affects yield not at all, nor resists. it also means a longer duration for overheating modules with t1 crystals. the choice of t1 vs t2 crystals is then one of yield vs overheat duration.
not as useful as op wants, but certainly less of a game changer than stupidly messing with yield/tank
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Iain Cariaba
1416
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Posted - 2015.05.24 04:18:11 -
[17] - Quote
Panty Stocking wrote:required for my support:
overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only
requires t2 strip miners
does 10x the amount of crystal damage and once the crystal is destroyed/removed, heat damage applies to strip miner module.
Reasoning: this would let miners keep mining when their non-overheated range is cleared out, while approaching the next group of asteroids. It is not meant to be used continuously, and affects yield not at all, nor resists. it also means a longer duration for overheating modules with t1 crystals. the choice of t1 vs t2 crystals is then one of yield vs overheat duration.
not as useful as op wants, but certainly less of a game changer than stupidly messing with yield/tank
An infinitesimal amount of planning and awareness of where the rocks you're mining are located in the belt makes extending the range through overheat totally unnecessary. If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2459
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Posted - 2015.05.24 05:45:26 -
[18] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Panty Stocking wrote:required for my support:
overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into. You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
427
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Posted - 2015.05.24 19:05:52 -
[19] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Panty Stocking wrote:required for my support:
overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into. You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it.
What do you suggest? |
Iain Cariaba
1422
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Posted - 2015.05.24 19:21:18 -
[20] - Quote
Deep Nine wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Panty Stocking wrote:required for my support:
overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into. You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it. What do you suggest? Suggest you learn more about how the game really works before you promote suggestions that, while you think are helpful, actually make things worse in the long run.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
428
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Posted - 2015.05.25 00:13:25 -
[21] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Deep Nine wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Panty Stocking wrote:required for my support:
overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into. You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it. What do you suggest? Suggest you learn more about how the game really works before you promote suggestions that, while you think are helpful, actually make things worse in the long run.
That wasent an answer. |
Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
428
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Posted - 2015.05.25 13:32:46 -
[22] - Quote
Overheating strip/ice/gas harvesters should and could be done via a a ship mode for Exhumers only, perhaps only macks and hulks A suggested penalty would be a reduction in shield capacity and deactivating shield hardeners. Benefits would be faster harvesting and/or larger yields at the expense to the defenses. The exhumers strip mode should include a reduction to heat damage, miners sit for long periods, requiring a break on heat damage.
This gives an added option of risk/reward. |
Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
46
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Posted - 2015.05.25 14:35:59 -
[23] - Quote
Deep Nine wrote:Overheating strip/ice/gas harvesters should and could be done via a a ship mode for Exhumers only, perhaps only macks and hulks A suggested penalty would be a reduction in shield capacity and deactivating shield hardeners. Benefits would be faster harvesting and/or larger yields at the expense to the defenses. The exhumers strip mode should include a reduction to heat damage, miners sit for long periods, requiring a break on heat damage.
This gives an added option of risk/reward.
This put miners so much at rish in highsec, besides the fact that hulk and mackinaw are pretty juicy targets by themselves, that I dont see how a mode that remove the pretty meh defenses we have on mackinaw and hulk (skiff is another story) would make miners want to do this at any given time. For remote and deep area of nullsec yes (if guarded against npc by combat ships that is), but these people have been recently already buffed with the ore anomalies tweaks.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
428
|
Posted - 2015.05.25 18:03:44 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:This put miners so much at rish in highsec, besides the fact that hulk and mackinaw are pretty juicy targets by themselves, that I dont see how a mode that remove the pretty meh defenses we have on mackinaw and hulk (skiff is another story) would make miners want to do this at any given time. For remote and deep area of nullsec yes (if guarded against npc by combat ships that is), but these people have been recently already buffed with the ore anomalies tweaks.
Why not make just a mode that lock us (exhumer only) in place for 5/10 minutes (with a 1/2 min unlock time for example) and give a big bonus (let's say half the size of a highsec semi-circular belt) to range (with not or very little bonus (5-10%) to cycle time) ? More range is not needed for mining fleet, because the orca give a big bonus to range already, but a solo/small team of miners could like this way more.
It's optional, not mandatory. It's a risk reward mechanic.
The locked mode was suggested, similar to what every mode in the game does. The Bonus' were already suggested.
You literally criticized the idea and then suggested the same thing with different specs. |
Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
46
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Posted - 2015.05.25 18:18:24 -
[25] - Quote
Deep Nine wrote:Quote:This put miners so much at rish in highsec, besides the fact that hulk and mackinaw are pretty juicy targets by themselves, that I dont see how a mode that remove the pretty meh defenses we have on mackinaw and hulk (skiff is another story) would make miners want to do this at any given time. For remote and deep area of nullsec yes (if guarded against npc by combat ships that is), but these people have been recently already buffed with the ore anomalies tweaks.
Why not make just a mode that lock us (exhumer only) in place for 5/10 minutes (with a 1/2 min unlock time for example) and give a big bonus (let's say half the size of a highsec semi-circular belt) to range (with not or very little bonus (5-10%) to cycle time) ? More range is not needed for mining fleet, because the orca give a big bonus to range already, but a solo/small team of miners could like this way more. It's optional, not mandatory. It's a risk reward mechanic. The locked mode was suggested, similar to what every mode in the game does. The Bonus' were already suggested. You literally criticized the idea and then suggested the same thing with different specs.
My mode doesn't negate defenses, nor the range bonus really boost the yield, only convience of moving around. And the fact that the initial idea is way to much of a risk against a too small reward still stands, a ganked exhumer cost 200M to replace, this is a lot of hours spend in a belt completely defenseless with the defenses nerf by overheat or mode.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Iain Cariaba
1433
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Posted - 2015.05.25 18:26:58 -
[26] - Quote
Deep Nine wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Deep Nine wrote:What do you suggest? Suggest you learn more about how the game really works before you promote suggestions that, while you think are helpful, actually make things worse in the long run. That wasent an answer. Actually, it was.
If you take all your ideas you've posted here in the last few days, and look at them collectively, it is glaringly obvious that you are totally unaware of how the economy in this game, or how economics in general, works. This has been explained to you already, by several different people. You have chosen to blissfully ignore these explanations, blindly going forth as if you know better than those who have spent years learning what you are trying to break.
You want to make more isk. I understand this. However, you are failing to realize that you are playing a game with thousands of other people. The suggestions you have made would certainly improve your income, if you were playing a single player game.
You think that increasing your yield by 30% would correlate to a 30% increase in your income. You need to realize that 30% increase in yield would not just apply to you, but to everyone who uses (insert feature). A 30% increase in ore sounds good to you, because you do not realize what 30% times 10,000 miners would do to the market prices of those ores.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
47
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Posted - 2015.05.25 19:00:49 -
[27] - Quote
I have a idea, that maybe would make everyone happy, something that doesn't really touch yield, nor demand a mode or a new thing, but I don't know if it's possible technically speaking :
- Strip miners can be overheat on exhumers in a short period of time, let's say 1 min maximum.
- When strip miners are overheated, they gain a range bonus, to mine up to 20km without links.
- If the players doesn't stop in the 1 min interval the overheat, the strip miners broke and need to be repaired in station like any overheated module.
- When the strip miners are not overheated, the heat bar slowly go down to 0% by itself in 5 min interval from 99% overheated.
With that, a careful player while moving in a belt can start catching roids when too far away until he gets close enough or finish a nearly depleted roid that start getting out of range.
Maybe this could have a even shorter overheat period, but give cycle boost instead of range, but as already said upping the yield even slightly could break the market enough to make mining viable only for multiboxers or nullsec players.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Iain Cariaba
1434
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Posted - 2015.05.25 20:36:35 -
[28] - Quote
Kiddoomer wrote:I have a idea, that maybe would make everyone happy, something that doesn't really touch yield, nor demand a mode or a new thing, but I don't know if it's possible technically speaking :
- Strip miners can be overheat on exhumers in a short period of time, let's say 1 min maximum.
- When strip miners are overheated, they gain a range bonus, to mine up to 20km without links.
- If the players doesn't stop in the 1 min interval the overheat, the strip miners broke and need to be repaired in station like any overheated module.
- When the strip miners are not overheated, the heat bar slowly go down to 0% by itself in 5 min interval from 99% overheated.
With that, a careful player while moving in a belt can start catching roids when too far away until he gets close enough or finish a nearly depleted roid that start getting out of range. Maybe this could have a even shorter overheat period, but give cycle boost instead of range, but as already said upping the yield even slightly could break the market enough to make mining viable only for multiboxers or nullsec players. The thing here is, as pointed out previously, unless you're multi-boxing a fleet of miners, you should hardly ever be out of range of the next rock.
Efficient mining is not sitting in one place while you mine out every asteroid with in range. It is knowing when the rock you're after is going to pop, and moving into range of the next one before it does. Unless they've drastically changed the way asteroids spawn in belts, you should have a couple 10% rocks with a few 5%s scattered around them in a couple locations in the belt, with the normal ones spread throughout the belt. This pretty much allows you to slowly move from one side of a belt to the other while mining one type of ore non-stop.
A little scouting, some planning, and a few well placed bookmarks are all you need to make this suggestion completely pointless.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
47
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Posted - 2015.05.25 20:54:39 -
[29] - Quote
Ok, I already prepare bookmarks for my belts to be able to warp/move and always stay and range and aligned to a celestial/safespot. But if that range is not a real bonus, I don't see any other way to make the OP idea viable without breaking the market. Guess it's not possible then to make overheat of mining modules a meaningfull choice.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Deep Nine
The Bank of Prometheus
428
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Posted - 2015.05.25 22:12:12 -
[30] - Quote
Kiddoomer wrote:Ok, I already prepare bookmarks for my belts to be able to warp/move and always stay and range and aligned to a celestial/safespot. But if that range is not a real bonus, I don't see any other way to make the OP idea viable without breaking the market. Guess it's not possible then to make overheat of mining modules a meaningfull choice.
It's possible. You misunderstood the entire thread. |
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