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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2015.05.26 00:53:58 -
[61] - Quote
This is like if I went to WoW forums and said "please allow me to start a raid already attuned because I don't want to grind it".
There's progression in games, otherwise theres not accomplishment or reward. How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
119
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Posted - 2015.05.26 01:19:05 -
[62] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:This is like if I went to WoW forums and said "please allow me to start a raid already attuned because I don't want to grind it".
There's progression in games, otherwise theres not accomplishment or reward. How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?
How long since you played? It has changed. |
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
119
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Posted - 2015.05.26 01:21:17 -
[63] - Quote
Endecroix wrote:I've worked hard to get my standings with all factions.
My suggestion would be rather than giving you a easy handin tags type method we find a way for someone like me to help out someone like you thereby creating content rather than dumbing down mechanisms.
Like if you assist someone on a storyline mission you get a part of the faction standings increase?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
37558
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Posted - 2015.05.26 01:21:30 -
[64] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth? How does shooting red crosses give anything more life? It drains it a lot.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
47
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Posted - 2015.05.26 01:58:45 -
[65] - Quote
This is the 1st PvE is hard thread I have seen.
PvE to stronk.
As Bjork sang... "I've seen it all" |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2439
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Posted - 2015.05.26 02:12:06 -
[66] - Quote
Endecroix wrote:I've worked hard to get my standings with all factions.
My suggestion would be rather than giving you a easy handin tags type method we find a way for someone like me to help out someone like you thereby creating content rather than dumbing down mechanisms. If only you could sell me something that I could use to increase my standings.
Like some kind of tags. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2135
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Posted - 2015.05.26 02:14:18 -
[67] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:This is like if I went to WoW forums and said "please allow me to start a raid already attuned because I don't want to grind it".
There's progression in games, otherwise theres not accomplishment or reward. How does allowing tags4standing improve the gameplay at all, or give it more life and depth?
I could argue that EVE is a fundamentally different game. But it is easier to let a dev do that for me:
CCP Soniclover wrote:...telling you that you cannot do a level four mission because you are not ready for it is not really GÇÿEVEGÇÖ. We allow people to fly into low sec and null sec on the first day. How much you risk is up to you. If you want to fly your destroyer into a level three mission why should we stop you? We should warn you that you may not be ready but it should be your decision.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2015.05.26 02:37:06 -
[68] - Quote
That CCP dev/rep/gm whatever they are, they are new blood to the game. They don't know what EvE is supposed to be.
The idea of disallowing L3 missions is for progression. Yes, you can fly into lowsec on day one, but you're not going to be able to do much there, because you have no DPS due to SKILL POINT PROGRESSION locking you out.
The faction things are "how much do I trust this person to give them a dangerous and important mission for my empire/corp"?
That is EvE. Trust. That CCP knows nothing.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2015.05.26 02:42:30 -
[69] - Quote
It doesn't make sense for a L4 NPC to give you a big assignment if you haven't proven yourself capable to take on small ****.
That'd be like goonswarm giving me a titan just because "I wanna try it". Not going to happen. It's about trust/reliability, and to completely wipe out this PvE/gameplay aspect in the name of expediency is exactly what turns EvE from a real living universe into a facebook game with explosions and excel sheets. I want depth to my gameplay. EvE doesn't need to be incongruent to in-game/in-universe logic simply because people want the game to be faster to play.
Load up cracks or hacks in a single player game if you want to get to high level content immediately.
That's what this particular CCP doesn't understand. Lowsec isn't high level content.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2015.05.26 02:43:21 -
[70] - Quote
The one thing CCP should be looking into fixing right now is the insane website problem. Posts over a certain length will not go through their system so they have to be broken up into separate posts.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
307
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Posted - 2015.05.26 06:37:24 -
[71] - Quote
I understand the objections to tags being able to instantly get good faction standings, but that's not how the Sec Status tags work, and it wouldn't be how these would work either; they could only get you back from -10 to 0. If you want locators, missions, or better station taxes, one would still have to earn them the old fashioned way, it just makes the bottomless hole of bad standings not so bottomless.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Endecroix
Royal Reidquat Airforce
20
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Posted - 2015.05.26 06:56:37 -
[72] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:[quote=Endecroix]If only you could sell me something that I could use to increase my standings.
Like some kind of tags.
The only way I could see that working would be say if CCP did the following, for example:
Player A: + 10 to Amarr Player B: + 4 to Amarr Player C: -10 to Amarr
Player A and B can buy Faction Tags from respective Amarr corps for LP (no differentiation for FW or bonus), player A can buy the Tier 1-5 tags due to their + 10 standing, Player B can only buy Tier 1 and 2 due to their + 4 standing.
Player C has to use Tier 5 to get them to -8, Tier 4 to get them to -6, and Tier 3 to get them to -4. Therefore, only Player A can supply the market with what they need. Player C can get to -2 using Tier 2 tags and back to 0 using Tier 1 tags both of which can be provided by Players A and B. There would be no tags that could raise faction standing over 0.
This would achieve a few things:
ISK sink using LP store Provide players with high standings a reason to have those high standings. Provide players with with low standings access to the board to gain further standings or to travel safely.
I think that would be agreeable for most tbh. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
307
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Posted - 2015.05.26 07:09:44 -
[73] - Quote
Endecroix wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:[quote=Endecroix]If only you could sell me something that I could use to increase my standings.
Like some kind of tags. The only way I could see that working would be say if CCP did the following, for example: Player A: + 10 to Amarr Player B: + 4 to Amarr Player C: -10 to Amarr Player A and B can buy Faction Tags from respective Amarr corps for LP (no differentiation for FW or bonus), player A can buy the Tier 1-5 tags due to their + 10 standing, Player B can only buy Tier 1 and 2 due to their + 4 standing. Player C has to use Tier 5 to get them to -8, Tier 4 to get them to -6, and Tier 3 to get them to -4. Therefore, only Player A can supply the market with what they need. Player C can get to -2 using Tier 2 tags and back to 0 using Tier 1 tags both of which can be provided by Players A and B. There would be no tags that could raise faction standing over 0. This would achieve a few things: ISK sink using LP store Provide players with high standings a reason to have those high standings. Provide players with with low standings access to the board to gain further standings or to travel safely. I think that would be agreeable for most tbh.
No. Absolutely not. LP is already far to valuable for a resource that can be infinitely farmed and created in the safety of High Sec. Tags for standing would be better served if they were similar to clone solider tags, such that Low/NPC null actually continue to develop unique resources, further differentiating and supporting them as unique areas.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
70
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Posted - 2015.05.26 09:52:34 -
[74] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Yes, I know data centers exist but these are not repeatable and don't give a high enough boost for Excellent faction standings.
I decided I wanted a character with >7 faction standings. I followed the Faction Standings Repair Plan (props to the author btw, excellent job). It took me three weeks of casual play to reach my goal. Now that I finally have the standings required for my original goal I feel burnt out and couldn't be bothered going through with my plan!
I hate highsec PvE. I don't enjoy grinding. I DON'T PLAY THIS GAME FOR THE MISSIONS! And I can guarantee that many other players would prefer me out there doing something risky instead of wasting time grinding in highsec.
CCP, please just let me pay a player who does enjoy this game play instead of grinding it myself. It is working for sec status - please just unlock repeats on data centers or introduce Tags4Standings. It shouldn't be easy to increase your standing with an ENTIRE faction in eve. You are wanting to become a hero to a massive empire in the space of a couple of days.
If you were talking about corporation standing that is possible to get above 7 quite easily, but faction standings are purposely meant to be a long term goal as they should be. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2135
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Posted - 2015.05.26 09:54:02 -
[75] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: It doesn't make sense for a L4 NPC to give you a big assignment if you haven't proven yourself capable to take on small ****.
That'd be like goonswarm giving me a titan just because "I wanna try it". Not going to happen. It's about trust/reliability, and to completely wipe out this PvE/gameplay aspect in the name of expediency is exactly what turns EvE from a real living universe into a facebook game with explosions and excel sheets. I want depth to my gameplay. EvE doesn't need to be incongruent to in-game/in-universe logic simply because people want the game to be faster to play.
Load up cracks or hacks in a single player game if you want to get to high level content immediately.
That's what this particular CCP doesn't understand. Lowsec isn't high level content. The point is that EVE is meant to be a player-driven sandbox rather than a NPC-driven one. If a noob wants to jump straight into a titan then good on them. They will lose it but they should be allowed to do it (and pretty much can within a few months). They will lose it, and so they should. But it should be their decision.
This should be the same for NPC interaction. If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
72
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:07:35 -
[76] - Quote
Zappity wrote:If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good. By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments. |
Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
25136
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:09:30 -
[77] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good. By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments.
You can if you pay enough ISK. Did you know how the Character Bazaar works?
All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
72
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:11:15 -
[78] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good. By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments. You can if you pay enough ISK. Did you know how the Character Bazaar works? Someone has still trained those skills. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:12:02 -
[79] - Quote
Yes, this has been a carefully crafted troll thread. Well done.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2135
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:14:21 -
[80] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:If I want to go and do a particular 'high level' thing that I'm not really ready for then it shouldn't be gated so I cannot. If I lose my ship then good. By this logic you should be able to fly any ship in the game from day one even though you haven't trained the skills. You are stepping far into special snowflake territory with these comments. Not at all. I never suggested that skill barriers should be lessened. Forced NPC interaction is a very different mechanic, and one that CCP seems to agree should be reduced.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
25138
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:17:34 -
[81] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Sibyyl wrote:
You can if you pay enough ISK. Did you know how the Character Bazaar works?
Someone has still trained those skills.
If you read any of Zappity's posts, the suggestion was for someone else to grind them and then be able to sell the standing for proceeds.
All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
72
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:31:09 -
[82] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Sibyyl wrote:
You can if you pay enough ISK. Did you know how the Character Bazaar works?
Someone has still trained those skills. If you read any of Zappity's posts, the suggestion was for someone else to grind them and then be able to sell the standing for proceeds.
Alright, if we are bringing the character bazaar into the equation then you already have the option to buy a character with a high faction standing.
Having a one day old character jumping into a titan, and having a new player buy a 10 year old titan pilot from the bazaar are two completely separate scenarios which you are conflating.
What you are arguing for is to circumvent the game progression mechanics because you feel entitled to access all the content from day one. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2135
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:39:23 -
[83] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:What you are arguing for is to circumvent the game progression mechanics... Yes. Because as the dev explained EVE shouldn't have them.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
72
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:56:28 -
[84] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Moac Tor wrote:What you are arguing for is to circumvent the game progression mechanics... Yes. Because as the dev explained EVE shouldn't have them. Hmmm, ok, eve shouldn't have progression mechanics.......
The same mechanics that have been a fundamental part of the game for the previous 12 years.
I think that comment reveals all about this particular thread and suggestion. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2135
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Posted - 2015.05.26 11:02:01 -
[85] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:Moac Tor wrote:What you are arguing for is to circumvent the game progression mechanics... Yes. Because as the dev explained EVE shouldn't have them. Hmmm, ok, eve shouldn't have progression mechanics....... The same mechanics that have been a fundamental part of the game for the previous 12 years. I think that comment reveals all about this particular thread and suggestion. Well my suggestion was not as severe as that. I wouldn't mind retaining the progression mechanics as long as someone else does the grind and I pay them for it. Win win.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Anthar Thebess
1044
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Posted - 2015.05.26 11:18:58 -
[86] - Quote
YES! PLS!
Caldari tags for gallente standings ( Correct? I don't do FW either ) Etc. Pirate Tags (overseer belongings ?) for Concord Standings!
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Anthar Thebess
1045
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Posted - 2015.05.26 11:27:13 -
[87] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Hum. If you can think of a system that'll work, feel free to post it to Features and Ideas and I'll try and pass it upwards.
Do it! Pls. Just make easier to lose those standings , and give players ability to buy standings for faction tags.
You will create new piece of economy and new player to player interaction.
How you can loose standings : - ganking in a faction space - becoming a suspect in space controlled by specific militia (exclude the kill right activation) - smuggling - fighting opposite FW - killing faction NPC
Gaining standings : Slow: - missions - COSMOS Fast (but costly): - using opposite faction tags
Concord Standings Gains : (the most costly) - by delivering (for no isk) Overseer belongings
In all those cases we also reducing the isk sink by not introducing new ISK from : - selling tags - selling overseer belongings
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
72
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Posted - 2015.05.26 11:34:43 -
[88] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:Moac Tor wrote:What you are arguing for is to circumvent the game progression mechanics... Yes. Because as the dev explained EVE shouldn't have them. Hmmm, ok, eve shouldn't have progression mechanics....... The same mechanics that have been a fundamental part of the game for the previous 12 years. I think that comment reveals all about this particular thread and suggestion. Well my suggestion was not as severe as that. I wouldn't mind retaining the progression mechanics as long as someone else does the grind and I pay them for it. Win win. And instead of trying to avoid and circumvent the grind because you feel entitled to access everything from day one, why not ask CCP to keep the progression, and recognise that having achievements and a sense of progression is a fundamental part of the game, but make that progression and grind a lot more interesting.
So instead of being a boring grind it is something fun which will have you running into low sec to fight real pirates, or procuring items to stock a factions market hub, and many other ideas that I haven't thought about. You'd probably get a lot more agreement with that line of argument. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2139
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Posted - 2015.05.26 12:43:52 -
[89] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:So instead of being a boring grind it is something fun which will have you running into low sec to fight real pirates, or procuring items to stock a factions market hub... See, these are activities that I do already. For fun and a sense of accomplishment. The problem with the current system is that in order to unlock certain content I need to STOP doing this and carry some stupid piece of paper across the region.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
8729
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Posted - 2015.05.26 13:55:23 -
[90] - Quote
AFAIK there is already a system in place that allows to you to "buy" standing with factions with tokens.
Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.
Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
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