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Anthar Thebess
1041
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Posted - 2015.05.25 08:50:32 -
[1] - Quote
What is the best way CCP can reimburse all current structures, all the towers, modules etc.
1. The worst way : Give ISK to corp wallets
Why this is the worst way? Because isk will stay in the system - every thing will skyrocket.
2. Much better way (my proposal): - put all normal structures at 100% reprocessing rate so people can recover all materials needed for a construction. - put all faction structures at 200% reprocessing rate, no extra materials where used to produce those , but yet just to give some credit to those who invested in them. ( this will still be under the current cost of those modules on current market) - give 1 BPC of "citadel upgrade/new structrure type" for each reprocessed pos module ( reaction/mining/specific production , etc)
For sure Towers will not disappear one day as all eve infrastructure base on them. Using 2nd approach people will have on place materials for new infrastructure , and will not problems to replace it. This will also ease the WH people as they will not have to bring tons of materials to replace dozens of towers we see in some systems.
If you have some idea what else CCP can do , please post it here.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
1782
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Posted - 2015.05.25 13:19:23 -
[2] - Quote
First they need to introduce all new strucutres that replace all the funcionalities if POS, Citadel is just first of them.
Then they will possibly remove the ability to produce new POSes and stuff for them by removing all BPOs(and giving ISK back) for them in game(or changing them to new structures depending how diffrent they will be).
Then they will wait and watch most of people move to the new structures and then wait a bit of time(few months maby)
And after that time they will remove whats left(and reimburse it somehow)
But i could be totaly wrong.
Akrasjel Lanate
Member of Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Citizen of Solitude
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Anthar Thebess
1041
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Posted - 2015.05.25 13:29:28 -
[3] - Quote
Like i stated the process will not be instant. The point is not to put tons of sinked isk ( BPO) and tons of tons of isk ( refunding current structures) into the system.
Materials are removed from system much easily than isk. If i can reprocess all towers to 100% materials , then i can use this to produce new structures.
What we also need is a way to upgrade some structure to new version. For example i have tower , that is not generating income it is just paying it bills , and it is running only because there is like 60-70 modules on it , that i don't want to move , as this takes time.
So if i could put some module on this tower , put there BPC for new structure , and press "UPGRADE" and all materials from those modules and tower will be used for creating this new structure , yes this could make me happy.
There are people that have 100's of towers ( this is not a joke ) putting 1 up takes around 1-2hours, similar time needed to pull it down.
Imagine what kind of workload this will be for whole eve.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1102
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:02:20 -
[4] - Quote
they will probable do the same thing they have in the past and put up npc buy orders
tbh i'm fine with no reimbursement they have given several years of notice
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
436
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:32:15 -
[5] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:they will probable do the same thing they have in the past and put up npc buy orders
Really? Has this happened before?
BPOs can be swapped 1 for 1, with faction towers/BPCs buy orders could work, though you BPCs can be traded on the regional market, unless :CCP:
Then again, it introduces more ISK into the system, though depending on their projected impact it could be negligible in the long run.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Christopher Mabata
The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium
325
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:35:12 -
[6] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:they will probable do the same thing they have in the past and put up npc buy orders
tbh i'm fine with no reimbursement they have given several years of notice
Same i have no qualms about 0 reimbursement, i have months technically to sell the stuff i have and call it break even, its the people who wait till the last second and cant get the full amount who would really want the reimbursement, and thats their own fault, not CCP's.
Now of course with sov structures thats a bit different, perhaps NPC buy orders above Current market value so some ISK is made just not a boatload of it.
Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
436
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:36:01 -
[7] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:they will probable do the same thing they have in the past and put up npc buy orders
tbh i'm fine with no reimbursement they have given several years of notice Same i have no qualms about 0 reimbursement, i have months technically to sell the stuff i have and call it break even, its the people who wait till the last second and cant get the full amount who would really want the reimbursement, and thats their own fault, not CCP's.
Where's the logic in that? If you sell now, someone will end up with the useless print.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Christopher Mabata
The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium
325
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:41:05 -
[8] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:they will probable do the same thing they have in the past and put up npc buy orders
tbh i'm fine with no reimbursement they have given several years of notice Same i have no qualms about 0 reimbursement, i have months technically to sell the stuff i have and call it break even, its the people who wait till the last second and cant get the full amount who would really want the reimbursement, and thats their own fault, not CCP's. Where's the logic in that? If you sell now, someone will still end up with the useless print/tower.
That's there prerogative for buying it despite proposed, well documented, specific, and known changes, the market does what it does. And people make bad purchase decisions all the time.
Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
436
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:43:15 -
[9] - Quote
You don't get it. Someone still ends up with a useless print.
Useless print.
Useless.
Zero utility.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Christopher Mabata
The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium
325
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:44:15 -
[10] - Quote
GankYou wrote:You don't get it. Someone still ends up with a useless print.
Useless print.
Useless.
Zero utility.
Consider it a collectible, its been done before with system scanning arrays
Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
436
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Posted - 2015.05.25 15:45:45 -
[11] - Quote
The scope of one module can not compare to a whole gameplay system like the Player Owned Control Towers and Modules with all the relevant blueprints.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Kashadin
Big Johnson's
68
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Posted - 2015.05.25 16:10:25 -
[12] - Quote
The point they are making is that if someone is dumb enough to buy the BPO/BPC with all the info that is currently out with no plan on what they are going to do with them then they deserve the loss of ISK that they will get on the back end.
That being said a "smart" person will realize that we prolly have a year to a year and a half untill these things are off the test server (my guess, I could be way wrong) and even longer before the POS system is removed all together. This could allow for a decent amount of profit off buying devalued blueprints, if you do things at the right time and with the right mindset.
And since they have not announced anything beyond "once the new system is all set up we will remove the old POS from game" we will see if the old stuff will become "relics" or if the people who invest in them now will win in the end. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
436
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Posted - 2015.05.25 16:18:08 -
[13] - Quote
Where is the "dumb"? Should people then abandon all POSes, stop all research, all moon mining, all production and dump it to the next "sucker" just because at some point in the future they will be made useless?
To even think that BPOs wouldn't be refunded or swapped is hilarious.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Kashadin
Big Johnson's
68
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Posted - 2015.05.25 16:49:52 -
[14] - Quote
Right this moment? No, they shouldn't. Like I said in the second part of my post, there is at least a year before the new system is even introduced in the live server, much less the POS system reduced or taken out.
My point was that if someone at this point (new system announced and in the late, overall, planning stages) decides to get into the POS making market to the point where they get BPOs for the POS and mods, and the devs have said nothing (that I am aware of) about if they are even going to give you a single ISK for the old BPOs/BPCs, then they deserve any potential loss that they take if the devs decide to not do anything with the old blueprints except make them relics.
I think it unlikely that they will do "trade ups" to the new system seeing as they are replacing POS mods (assembly arrays, ore compressors) with full blown new structures and AFAIK there is no "direct" parallel to the old POS sticks in the new system.
I could see the old guns/launchers/EWAR being turned into the new system fairly easy tho, and I think that would save a lot of people ISK/time in the end. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
66
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Posted - 2015.05.25 16:56:41 -
[15] - Quote
The structure changes are so far off, and so little is actually known discussion is rather pointless. They could do a buy back. They could allow full reprocessing. They could cause all sticks to become their equivalent. They could scrap the whole project. They could decide to leave towers intact as mobile bubbles in space for staging purposes. They could make them all explode in a magical space fireworks display. They could decide to make control towers the central component of citadels themselves.
Fact is, we don't know anything past what they've told us and that's not a hell of a lot. So speculation is fun, but it's just likely to cause drama at this point in time. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2957
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Posted - 2015.05.25 17:43:12 -
[16] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:What is the best way CCP can reimburse all current structures, all the towers, modules etc.
1. The worst way : Give ISK to corp wallets
Why this is the worst way? Because isk will stay in the system - every thing will skyrocket.
Care to substantiate or prove this point?
The rest of this topic loses credibility after point 1....
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8073
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Posted - 2015.05.25 18:14:41 -
[17] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Where is the "dumb"? Should people then abandon all POSes, stop all research, all moon mining, all production and dump it to the next "sucker" just because at some point in the future they will be made useless?
To even think that BPOs wouldn't be refunded or swapped is hilarious. Bear in mind that...
- when various ships/modules were nerfed... CCP did not reimburse any player. Despite the fact that some players had invested all their industry on said ships/modules... or how some ships/modules require months of resource harvesting and building to make.
- Certain players who focused on certain niche aspects of industry (e.g. datacores) were never reimbursed when the Faction Warfare changes came about... and flooded the market with cheap datacores (devaluing all the time and effort players had spent beforehand).
- When Faction Warfare was revamped... players who suddenly found themselves "locked out" from their HQ systems and unable to access any of their (because the system was owned by the "enemy") were not given a magic teleport function... nor were they reimbursed for all the time, effort, and money they spent moving everything.
- When the old "Dominion SOV" came online for the first time, CCP did not reimburse players (as far as I am aware) for the POSs they used to maintain SOV (as was required in the old system)... but they gave players a few months to adjust to the new system before making it mandatory.
- When POS Fuel Blocks were introduced... CCP gave players 2 or 3 months to switch all their fuel over to the blocks before making it mandatory. Players were not reimbursed for all the efforts they had to expend. Or the cost of making the new fuel type.
The list goes on.
Basically... CCP gives us a "grace period" when the new system comes online before deleting the old system... allowing players to make the conversion. Sometimes they put up NPC buy orders on the market... sometimes they do not.
Ultimately, CCP's stance is that everything is subject to change and no player is entitled to reimbursement (which only happens at their discretion).
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1103
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Posted - 2015.05.25 18:32:33 -
[18] - Quote
GankYou wrote:You don't get it. Someone still ends up with a useless print.
Useless print.
Useless.
Zero utility.
that they bought knowing it would become useless
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
436
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Posted - 2015.05.25 19:03:07 -
[19] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:GankYou wrote:You don't get it. Someone still ends up with a useless print.
Useless print.
Useless.
Zero utility. that they bought knowing it would become useless
You don't get it.
None of you do apparently.
Even if no more BPOs are bought from the NPC seeders, the ones in existence will stay in the system and someone will eventually end up holding the bag, and it isn't an insignificant sum, or research time investment either.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Anthar Thebess
1043
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Posted - 2015.05.26 09:00:51 -
[20] - Quote
BPO's for pos / modules owned by players go into billions ... per person sometimes. This is of course NPC price - ccp cannot inject this amount of isk back into the system.
NPC buying pos modules and towers? This is again isk generation, and tons of rework for every one.
I paid to bring towers and modules for my personal utility use , and why i need to do it again if all the materials needed to build new structures are in the old ones?
100% reprocessing rate is best solution for me.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
81
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Posted - 2015.05.26 09:33:29 -
[21] - Quote
I believe CCP stated due to the differences in the back end of the new system - current items will not convert.
And I think CCP will do what they are doing with SBU. Just refund players the BPO price and set something up to liquidate the old towers and such.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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Anthar Thebess
1043
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Posted - 2015.05.26 09:47:50 -
[22] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:I believe CCP stated due to the differences in the back end of the new system - current items will not convert.
And I think CCP will do what they are doing with SBU. Just refund players the BPO price and set something up to liquidate the old towers and such.
The whole point of this topic is to find the proper way to do it. Converting whole pos infrastructure into the ISK is very, very , very , yes VERY bad solution.
It is almost impossible to remove isk from the system.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
437
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Posted - 2015.05.26 11:02:40 -
[23] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:BPO's for pos / modules owned by players go into billions ... per person sometimes. This is of course NPC price - ccp cannot inject this amount of isk back into the system.
Well, they could refund the unresearched, or even researched prints at nominal value. This ISK shouldn't wander off elsewhere - the same people will reinvest into the new Citadels.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2015.06.11 16:38:11 -
[24] - Quote
i think that the best solution is to allow the existing structures to be fitted as modules to the new citadels. This will solve the problems of BPC/BPO and the problem of keeping the values of the faction versions. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
306
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Posted - 2015.06.11 19:35:21 -
[25] - Quote
Structure reimbursement is for wussies :) What I want to see just a few days before things like towers are removed from the game, is a huge fleet of drifter ships going through EVERY system in the game and reinforcing/destroying EVERY last tower with extreme prejudice. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
501
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:56:28 -
[26] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Structure reimbursement is for wussies :) What I want to see just a few days before things like towers are removed from the game, is a huge fleet of drifter ships going through EVERY system in the game and reinforcing/destroying EVERY last tower with extreme prejudice.
I like it.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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159Pinky
Under Heavy Fire Mordus Angels
20
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Posted - 2015.06.12 11:19:49 -
[27] - Quote
So how will giving you the minerals back solve the isk issue? People can just sell the materials and have the isk... |
Anthar Thebess
1074
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Posted - 2015.06.12 11:28:24 -
[28] - Quote
Why giving materials is better than isk?
If CCP decides that it will reimburse using isk then this isk will be created from "thin air" So prices will spike, as we are talking about Billiards of isk.
When CCP will give materials and someone will decide to sell this on the market then ISK will exchange hands between players. Lets not forget that most of the people will actually use reimbursed materials to create new infrastructure , as something needs to replace stuff that will be removed. There will be also much less hauling ( and i hate hauling ) required from people, as they will not need to import again materials to build something, but use materials they already hauled once.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
501
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Posted - 2015.06.12 11:29:59 -
[29] - Quote
159Pinky wrote:So how will giving you the minerals back solve the isk issue? People can just sell the materials and have the isk...
That would be no net ISK increase in the system.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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