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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:10:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Patch86 Drake was overpowered, and did need rebalancing.
I hope they havn't taken it too far, though.
But of course, thanks for Whining, and YES, THEY have taken it TOO far.. just as your whining...
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Aequitas Veritas
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:11:00 -
[212]
Im sure this will get changed again as it was way overdone.
The Drake wasnt that horrible either, it was just too good at ganking and tanking at the same time. So removing some powergrid so it couldnt fit extenders while fitting bcu's might have been sufficient. Or let it keep its tank and remove one launcher.
The kinetic damage only bonus no ship should suffer, its plain horrible for pvp... Caldari's actually do other things than PvE. Messing up this ship removed the only reason that true caldari spec'ed players had anything to look forward to in Kali. The Rokh is made for players flying Gallente ships not Caldari.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin |
Cyberus
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:19:00 -
[213]
I want my ROF back. period!!!!!!11
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:21:00 -
[214]
I think the major, major issue is that us Caldari are tired of ships with tank. We got lots of those. We want one ship that can gank in some way that isn't t2 or a Bs or ewar. We just want to ba able to fire a crap load of missles and **** the tank! ------------------
CEO of TKI
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:23:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Supernova 5000 im pure caldari and i can say it needed the nerf it was pretty boring not being brought down to armor fighting anything around my size. I want some exciting in life not... "ohh look its another BC that won't absolutly do jack to me let me press F1-F8 and go to the kitchen n get something to drink."
You want some excitement? go fight a T2 precise cruise Raven with a crow, or maybe this exciting new BC..
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Spiderweb
Caldari Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:26:00 -
[216]
I lost absolutely all excitement for Kali.
And to think that I convinced two of my friends to start playing because of Kali ... I feel like a liar.
The drake nerf isnt just a nerf of a BC. Its alot more, the least of all being insulting to the intelligence of any non-brain dead EVE caldari player.
So, we get a gallente ship, a Ferox MK II for noobs, and what else? ah right, nothing else ... -----------------------------------------------
"Light, in the Darkest of Hours..." |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:27:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Dixon I'd settle for a RoF bonus but remove the resist bonus for a flight time bonus so the ship can actually use HAMs.
Wait, you want a range bonus on the missile equivalent of blasters? What part of that seems sensible?
HAMs are meant to be close range weapons, so a range bonus wou;ld most deffinatly not tbe the direction to go.
No parts of your whiney posts seemed sensible to anyone but your whining got you stuff, let people whine here for a bit so at least the new BC for Caldari can be more than a collector's item for view in stations...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:29:00 -
[218]
This nerf is b/c of the stupid gallente, I say kill them all... and then get their stuff, and instead of selling it make minerals to make more caldari ships !!!
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Teego
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:29:00 -
[219]
"Of the meticulous craftsmanship the Caldari are renowned for, the Drake was born. It was found beneath such a ship to rely on anything other than the time-honoured combat tradition of missile fire, while the inclusion of sufficient CPU capabilities for decent electronic warfare goes without saying."
That really doesn't fit anymore.
So, if we aren't going to buff the ship attributes, can we at least continue the trend and give it a more accurate description?
How about:
"Caldari engineers opted to forego innovation in the development of their most recent lateral development, the Drake. Void of any features which would afford the Drake an opportunity to participate in fleet combat, its design is specific to the eradication of Guristas pirates within the Caldari State. The combination of mediocre damage capabilities and systems specialized toward the enhancement of kinetic missile damage require pilots looking for some versatility to look elsewhere for their battlecruiser needs."
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:33:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Teego "Of the meticulous craftsmanship the Caldari are renowned for, the Drake was born. It was found beneath such a ship to rely on anything other than the time-honoured combat tradition of missile fire, while the inclusion of sufficient CPU capabilities for decent electronic warfare goes without saying."
That really doesn't fit anymore.
So, if we aren't going to buff the ship attributes, can we at least continue the trend and give it a more accurate description?
How about:
"Caldari engineers opted to forego innovation in the development of their most recent lateral development, the Drake. Void of any features which would afford the Drake an opportunity to participate in fleet combat, its design is specific to the eradication of Guristas pirates within the Caldari State. The combination of mediocre damage capabilities and systems specialized toward the enhancement of kinetic missile damage require pilots looking for some versatility to look elsewhere for their battlecruiser needs."
Good one m8, maybe we can change the ship's info to now say:
Neither Ishukone nor Kaalakiota bothered with a crappy design of a ship this looked out to be, so instead they outsourced the project to random hacks... Come see the new freak of Caldari universe, the useless crippled wonder of the universe. Caldari BC bonus> price goes up by 5 mil every week. Special bonus> fun of owning this ship diminishes progressively as soon as you try to use it for anything but an ornament.
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Aequitas Veritas
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:33:00 -
[221]
Gallente seems to have gotten two battleships this round as well. A long range ship of Caldari design and a new blasterboat designed by themselves :p
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:36:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Gallente seems to have gotten two battleships this round as well. A long range ship of Caldari design and a new blasterboat designed by themselves :p
Can't be more right on this one. After all everyone (gallente) was bashing on this ship as being the oh so Caldari powerful and cool weapon using the pretext to nerf the new BC, when in fact they got that Battleship. In order for a caldari pilot to use it they have to retrain the whole line of gunnery skills, while a gallente pilot needs to simply train Caldari BC to lvl 3-4 to be max effective..
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Jaxtet
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:52:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Gallente seems to have gotten two battleships this round as well. A long range ship of Caldari design and a new blasterboat designed by themselves :p
Can't be more right on this one. After all everyone (gallente) was bashing on this ship as being the oh so Caldari powerful and cool weapon using the pretext to nerf the new BC, when in fact they got that Battleship. In order for a caldari pilot to use it they have to retrain the whole line of gunnery skills, while a gallente pilot needs to simply train Caldari BC to lvl 3-4 to be max effective..
You mean Caldari BS right? Not BC? I thought the Rohk was a BS. You are forgetting though that Caldari ships specialize in shield tanking. Gallente ships specialize in armor tanking. So its not quite that easy. To switch would mean Gallente would need to train up the whole line of shield tanking skills. Sorry but your point that its easy for a Gallente to switch is pretty much moot when you take into account the other skills needed. Sure they Gallente could fire the guns and fit the ship but that'd be about it :) - It's great to have a life outside of a video game, ain't it?«
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Aequitas Veritas
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.17 20:15:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Jaxtet
You mean Caldari BS right? Not BC? I thought the Rohk was a BS. You are forgetting though that Caldari ships specialize in shield tanking. Gallente ships specialize in armor tanking. So its not quite that easy. To switch would mean Gallente would need to train up the whole line of shield tanking skills. Sorry but your point that its easy for a Gallente to switch is pretty much moot when you take into account the other skills needed. Sure they Gallente could fire the guns and fit the ship but that'd be about it :)
Oh Boho... you need like what? a week to train up to use shield extenders and t2 hardeners?
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin |
Jaxtet
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.17 20:23:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Jaxtet on 17/11/2006 20:23:34 Thanks, that's my point exactly, you can't just jump into one.
- It's great to have a life outside of a video game, ain't it?«
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Dadanen1
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Posted - 2006.11.17 20:48:00 -
[226]
Aequitas, the rokh is a rail ship, and i for one am glad i have something better then the **** moa and ferox, However thats a bit off topic here. But i for one believe that ccp pretty much killed off the missle side of caldari, hell why not just remove missles from the game in its entirety,not like they are going to be any good for anything but pve, and if you keep nerfing the **** out of them even i will doubt that they would even be good for that
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.11.17 21:04:00 -
[227]
What is the DPS of the Drake with a full rack of T2 HAM's and T2 close range heavy assaults? ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Infar Dantenon
Tempt Fate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 21:11:00 -
[228]
i hate being Caldari
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 21:27:00 -
[229]
The Drake was a beautiful ship. On top of being the most attractive boat the Caldari have gotten in a long time, it finally did what the battlecruiser should have done from the beginning; served as a solid middle ground between the cruiser and tier one (or in the caldari's case, tier 2) battleship.
The Drake was amazingly powerful when it had heavy assault missiles, and packed quite a whollup with T2 heavy missiles as well. But now, with the current status of the Drake, it is exactly what other people consider it: A level 2 and easy level 3 mission man ship.
I agree the Drake was somewhat overpowered. However, removing BOTH the seventh heavy launcher and the rate of fire bonus reduced it to a merely tanking battlecruiser that dishes out only slightly more damage than a caracal.
Why cant the Caldari just have a PVP ship that doesnt suck, CCP? The Kinetic damage bonus is genuinely all but worthless outside of PVE
»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/
Its Cohort. with a C. |
Mirt T
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Posted - 2006.11.17 21:41:00 -
[230]
on the test server anyone could get the t2 ammo its not gonna be that common on tq. but lets ignore that, the 7 launchers might have been a bit over. However Caldari ships should have a missile rof bonus. The backstory clames that the Caldari have a higher tec level then the gallente and that the caldari are missile specialists. looking at this it would make sence that caldari ships have a rof bonus.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:06:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Gallente seems to have gotten two battleships this round as well. A long range ship of Caldari design and a new blasterboat designed by themselves :p
Can't be more right on this one. After all everyone (gallente) was bashing on this ship as being the oh so Caldari powerful and cool weapon using the pretext to nerf the new BC, when in fact they got that Battleship. In order for a caldari pilot to use it they have to retrain the whole line of gunnery skills, while a gallente pilot needs to simply train Caldari BC to lvl 3-4 to be max effective..
It's nobody's fault but your own that you never bothered to train your racial weapons. Do you see Gallente pilots only getting drone skillpoints? Nope. There's a reason the average Caldari pilot is looked at as an idiot.
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Protunia
Gallente Horadrim
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:17:00 -
[232]
As much smack talking as you guys do I'd nerf tyhe SOB's again just for the hell of it ;)
you'll never learn. good luck getting anything back btw. No diplomacy = no buffs. My Character Stats |
Dekein
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:39:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Dekein on 17/11/2006 22:42:07 The real problem, which the HP buff is magnifying, is how easy it is to fit oversized plate and extenders.
There needs to be some sanity injected into both modules so that the realistic sized ones are being mounted on the ships they are designed for.
Frigates/destroyers should not be mounting medium extenders or 400mm plates. Cruisers/BCs should not be mounting large extenders or 1600mm plates.
If some adjustments to the Hp values of the modules need to be done along with adding the restrictions for size, so be it. Until then, balance will be very hard to achieve as some setups/ships will allow tanks with 3-4 times the hitpoints of other ships, while not sacrificing 3-4 times the damage output.
They could look at the relative fitting costs of close and long range weapons too, but as long as the HP boosting modules were restricted, it wouldn't do you a whole ton of good to fit low grid weapons to try to overtank the ship.
I know someone will cry about versatility. But really, why on earth would you not sacrifice 20% DPS for 300% more tank? Outside of a fleet or pure gank squad, it would be so stupid not to that everyone with a clue would be doing it(is doing it).
Edit: Oh yeah, back to the current whine. Drop the kinetic bonusand give it a 4% per level ROF. Cerb will still slightly outdamage it with kinetics, but the Drake will have more damage flexibility, compared to the Cerbs overall better flexibility. _____________________
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Albrecht Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.18 06:07:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Albrecht Wassenar on 18/11/2006 06:09:29 I am so disappointed. For once there was a ship on the horizon that was going to be effective in PvP and be a strong Caldari ship for all the appropriate reasons according to the PF (thats prime fiction for you non-RPr's). While I can see why the Drake was overpowered compared to many of its comteporary BCs of other races, and while it needed to be toned down, this is too much by far. I have said it before and I will say it again. I think the concept of +5% Kin dmg bonus per level is beyond stupid. No other race is faced with such a problem. If 7 launchers and the RoF bonus are too much, then there are many other options to deal with this problem. For one there are at least four (4) other percentile in their you can play with for the RoF, or you can drop one (1) of the launcher hard points. If something is overpowered, tone it down a bit, and then if it is still overpowered continue until parity is achieved. I am 100% for a level playing field for everyone in this game. If that means taking a hit on the things I use, great, but what I am seeing is this game getting increasingly more and more out of balance in many, many ways (not just Drake). I seriously worry for the future of this game. I am seeing those who are loudest on the forums beginning to control the game instead of the devs, in an effort to get and keep new subscribers by placating them. I dont think its a good idea to let someone who has little to no experience be calling the shots. Not that new players cant think of creative ways to deal with problems too, but I really think that only players who have the best interests of the game in mind should be the one at the wheel. If a player can and repeatedly show objectivity in their opinions on aspects of the game as well as the ability to think more than 5 minuets into the future and beyond their own personal agenda, then their opinions should be weighted to reflect their objective reasoning. If you think I am full of it, go play World War II Online. That is what happens to a game when the developers only listen to what the general, and usually uneducated, masses have to say, which is a downright shame for a game with the unique scope like that (sound familiar). I want to see this game succeed as there is no other with as much unique potential as this one but if this is shape of things to come, we are all screwed. ------------------------------------- Join "TKI-net"/"Directivenet" for more information |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.18 07:06:00 -
[235]
How many of you doing the whining have actually flown the ship post-nerf? I have. I flew it tonight and wiped the floor with a hurricane, a brutix, a harbinger and a deimos. And I did it using only kinetic javelin assault missiles.
And yes, I scrambled my targets.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2006.11.18 07:48:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne How many of you doing the whining have actually flown the ship post-nerf? I have. I flew it tonight and wiped the floor with a hurricane, a brutix, a harbinger and a deimos. And I did it using only kinetic javelin assault missiles.
And yes, I scrambled my targets.
Obviously you vin againts folks witch were not smart enought to fit hardeners. This kind of post it totalu irellevant and annoying. Add skill and ship setups to make your post relevant.
PS. Im still convinced its HAM problem, try to make some testing with heavy missiles...
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.18 08:03:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Obviously you vin againts folks witch were not smart enought to fit hardeners. This kind of post it totalu irellevant and annoying. Add skill and ship setups to make your post relevant.
PS. Im still convinced its HAM problem, try to make some testing with heavy missiles...
How much have YOU flown it since the nerf? I bet not at all.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2006.11.18 08:18:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Obviously you vin againts folks witch were not smart enought to fit hardeners. This kind of post it totalu irellevant and annoying. Add skill and ship setups to make your post relevant.
PS. Im still convinced its HAM problem, try to make some testing with heavy missiles...
How much have YOU flown it since the nerf? I bet not at all.
0.5 flight hour with HAMS 1 flight hour with HM
Now its your turn, ship setups and skills of foes you defeated (im curious about their weapon spec skill..) please..
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.18 08:46:00 -
[239]
The problem is that the drakes tank was and still is rediciously strong.
And this isn't mainly because the resistance bonus. Thats only a 33% boost.
That the ferox can mount an good passive tank on TQ is no secret. On test the drake has 2.1 times the shield, but the same shield recharge rate. Which is compared to it an 110% boost.
If you want to increase the dps of the drake you have to nerf its shield recharge rate.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:04:00 -
[240]
I feel they shoulda kept the same number of launchers, and swapped the RoF for the Kinetic bonus.
That would make the most sense, because it's harder to resent a specialized ship.
The DPS loss, however, means a bow to the T2 community, which is still dumb in a grind-based game.
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