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Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 11:24:57 -
[211] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It means that they are profitable to gank with less isk in the hold. So not fitting a tank is a very big deal.
No, it just means they get chosen first. Would the majority fit tank then they'd be targeted, just with a few added Catalysts, and still be viable targets.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 11:28:03 -
[212] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: 'mission busting' and can flipping are baiting a fight and have nothing to do with attacking shipping.
That's weird. I do a lot of that, attacking ships, and I do it for profit. It's not like there's rules set in stone or something that there's just one type of piracy, it's more of a guideline really.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16032
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Posted - 2015.06.01 11:45:46 -
[213] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:
No, it just means they get chosen first. Would the majority fit tank then they'd be targeted, just with a few added Catalysts, and still be viable targets.
And wind up bankrupt because you are paying more than you are making. Not fitting a tank means you are profitable to gank with less in the hold. Its as simple as that.
Magnus Roden wrote:baltec1 wrote: 'mission busting' and can flipping are baiting a fight and have nothing to do with attacking shipping. That's weird. I do a lot of that, attacking ships, and I do it for profit. It's not like there's rules set in stone or something that there's just one type of piracy, it's more of a guideline really.
Your kill record: No Character/Corp/Alliance by that name could be found!
Given you utter lack of knowledge I simply don't believe you.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
187
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Posted - 2015.06.01 11:50:36 -
[214] - Quote
SamuraiJack wrote:I've got much better idea.
If you GCC. Concord Pods you. End of hyperdunking.
You are a criminal in highsec. They shouldnt just pop you. They should kill you. You broke the law. Have some ****ing concequences. Hows that for realism.
Just because thats how the American police operate doesn't mean it should be standard operating procedure for all police forces. |
Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 12:19:16 -
[215] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:And wind up bankrupt because you are paying more than you are making. Not fitting a tank means you are profitable to gank with less in the hold. Its as simple as that.
Apparently it's worthwhile to gank empty freighters or ones with just some 100 mil isk onboard, or at least it's not a big enough cost or nuisance to NOT do it meaning that with a few more catalysts it's worth it to gank a 2 bil cargo tanked one.
Quote: Your kill record: No Character/Corp/Alliance by that name could be found!
Given you utter lack of knowledge I simply don't believe you.
Just as you hide behind 40k "friends", whom you then won't have to fight, I hide behind posting alts. Nice try though.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16033
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Posted - 2015.06.01 12:41:31 -
[216] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:
Apparently it's worthwhile to gank empty freighters or ones with just some 100 mil isk onboard, or at least it's not a big enough cost or nuisance to NOT do it meaning that with a few more catalysts it's worth it to gank a 2 bil cargo tanked one.
As has been pointed out to you many times already these ganks are rare, not the norm and happen for other reasons such as us hitting enemy hauler alts.
Magnus Roden wrote: Just as you hide behind 40k "friends", whom you then won't have to fight, I hide behind posting alts. Nice try though.
Until you provide the proof you are just telling lies. The very fact you have zero idea what you are talking about is enough to show that. You are nothing but a highsec bear whining to remove the only threat haulers will ever face.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Amanda Chan
Error 404 Pod Not Found
8
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Posted - 2015.06.01 12:47:01 -
[217] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:SamuraiJack wrote:I've got much better idea.
If you GCC. Concord Pods you. End of hyperdunking.
You are a criminal in highsec. They shouldnt just pop you. They should kill you. You broke the law. Have some ****ing concequences. Hows that for realism. Just because thats how the American police operate doesn't mean it should be standard operating procedure for all police forces.
Hoooooooo shots fired, also it's not just the American police that operate that way.
That said, I'm all for Concord podding....along with deadspace rats, belt rats, every kind of rat. Since CCP is testing this new AI who knows, it may very well update these fuctions/classes to all rats. Imagine warping out of a mission. whew, what? Rats have followed me back to my station?! oh noes! Wait..now they're camping me in said station.....hurrr. *priceless*
Back to the topic at hand. Should people under GCC be allowed to refit? No, Concord is there to punish you. You removing modules to is a midigation/circumventing that punishment. It doesn't matter how large or small of an impact. Game mechanics need to be fixed or can lead to loop holes.
Off to the tangents:
Should high-sec ganking exist? Yes. EVE is built on the foundation of risk/reward. What shouldn't exist? Bumping. There is no risk and only reward for bumping, be it tears, setting up a gank, etc. Personally I think it's very silly that ships slam into one another at 1k+ m/s and just bounce off each other and get sent flying with no damage taken. If I wanna kamikaze a machariel screaming in at 2k+ m/s a second and slam into a freighter. You better believe that freighter should be get rek'd but at the same time should the machariel.
But wait?! How will we gank if we can't bump people while we form up/warp there. Be prepared? When advising people on how to avoid getting bumped and then ganked. You tell them scout ahead, don't travel alone, etc etc. But the same rules don't apply to the ganker who bumps somebody for 30+ minutes while batphoning in a posse.(p.s yes there are ways to save a freighter after getting bumped. although it is much harder without alts/friends)
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1844
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Posted - 2015.06.01 12:54:21 -
[218] - Quote
So beside the already too common rambling about ganking being good/bad/broken/fine/..., did anything come up as reasons for this change beside canning expensive items before you go pop? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16033
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Posted - 2015.06.01 13:02:50 -
[219] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:So beside the already too common rambling about ganking being good/bad/broken/fine/..., did anything come up as reasons for this change beside canning expensive items before you go pop?
Even the canning of the mods before you explode is grasping at straws.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 13:04:22 -
[220] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Magnus Roden wrote:
Apparently it's worthwhile to gank empty freighters or ones with just some 100 mil isk onboard, or at least it's not a big enough cost or nuisance to NOT do it meaning that with a few more catalysts it's worth it to gank a 2 bil cargo tanked one.
As has been pointed out to you many times already these ganks are rare, not the norm and happen for other reasons such as us hitting enemy hauler alts. Magnus Roden wrote: Just as you hide behind 40k "friends", whom you then won't have to fight, I hide behind posting alts. Nice try though.
Until you provide the proof you are just telling lies. The very fact you have zero idea what you are talking about is enough to show that. You are nothing but a highsec bear whining to remove the only threat haulers will ever face.
Yeah, they rarely happe.. oh wait, no.
And again, nice try. Btw, why are you so concerned with high sec, don't you have things to fight in 0.0?
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16034
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Posted - 2015.06.01 13:06:50 -
[221] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:
And again, nice try. Btw, why are you so concerned with high sec, don't you have things to fight in 0.0?
Unlike you I play in all areas of space.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 13:17:50 -
[222] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Magnus Roden wrote:
And again, nice try. Btw, why are you so concerned with high sec, don't you have things to fight in 0.0?
Unlike you I play in all areas of space.
Ah yes, so you friend everyone in 0.0 meaning you don't have to fight anyone of consequence and then you go to high sec to shoot people who don't shoot back.
Duly noted.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
181
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Posted - 2015.06.01 14:02:28 -
[223] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:All that happened is that solo miners, for the most part, stopped jetcanning and just fly back and forth with their increased oreholds. Mining OPs still use cans in many cases as they tend to feel safe these days (can flipping is "dead", remember) and increase their distance from the Orca. Warp in, position yourself between the Orca and Exhumer, watch the Orca frantically pulling in the ore, switch it as it passes you. Done. It's not very difficult if you know what you're doing. Increased defences on the mining ships don't help when it comes to combat but for a well prepared flipper this really isn't a problem.
People stopped can flipping because the engagement is now less controlled (not just corp only) and this scares a lot of people but they won't say that of course, instead they'll mutter some other excuses. Personally I'm not a fan of those crimewatch changes because there's even less need for miners to be in a corp but it doesn't really stop can flipping. Have more scouts, be a bit more careful about which systems you use and simply accept the increased risk.
And that, of course, is the main issue: increased risk. For all the huffing and puffing fierce pvpers and gankers (myself not excluded of course, although in a different manner) do they are no less risk averse than the truest carebear, that's why you hide in hilariously huge coalitions and that is why you create alts to shoot people who don't shoot back. Any other explanation, excuse or "for the betterment of the game" is just smoke and mirrors, perhaps even to yourself.
Can flipping still works fine, it's just less easy than it was before but on the other hand you also have less competition and less miners being used to it. So, you're wrong on that. AND you're wrong on ransoming as well, it still works if you do it right and pick the right targets. Yet again you are ignorant of game mechanics.
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed.
Dude seriously learn the game mechanics |
Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
25298
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Posted - 2015.06.01 14:34:29 -
[224] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:So beside the already too common rambling about ganking being good/bad/broken/fine/..., did anything come up as reasons for this change beside canning expensive items before you go pop?
stoicfaux explained to us that the change is likely meant to address a situation where a character on GCC uses a Citadel's invulnerability link/refitting services.
All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16047
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:04:37 -
[225] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:
Ah yes, so you friend everyone in 0.0 meaning you don't have to fight anyone of consequence and then you go to high sec to shoot people who don't shoot back.
Duly noted.
Tell me more about how the 95% of EVEs population we have as shoot on sight are "friends".
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
236
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:17:01 -
[226] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed.
Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag. |
Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:39:28 -
[227] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed.
Dude seriously learn the game mechanics
There's various ways to make that work.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
181
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:50:43 -
[228] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed.
Dude seriously learn the game mechanics There's various ways to make that work. You are so full of it and obviously have not flipped cans for years.
Please tell me how you take one alt and flip the exumer can MID TRACTOR PULL then have an alt take the blue can and put it in his own. If there is a mobile tractor unit itll take in the blue can immediately.
Please describe your "various ways"
Oh you cant cuz you dont know what you are talking about.
You understamd how fast a tractor pulls in a can?? Freaking fast dude
Its okay for you to have your opinion that gankers are bad but dont try to say you know what you are talking about from your experience.
Please describe "various ways" |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
181
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:53:46 -
[229] - Quote
Hell i have found just flipping the can and turninf it blue then just lol-popping it tends to make the bears angry enough to agress you mpre often then some double alt can hotswap in under 2seconds.
Just steal ore and lolpop the can and talk trash.
Yes there are ways, but yes theu have been severely restricted after crimewatch to save the bares |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
181
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:01:37 -
[230] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed. Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag. Bears cry to get game mechanics changed and nerfed. "Bad guys" just well damn, and then figure out new ways to make the nerfed mechanics work for them again.
Why can the bears just fogure out how to protect themselves and use mechanics for themselves like the "bad guys" always do?
Every time there is a nerf cuz bears cried, the bad guys adapt and overcome and still blow up the bears.
Guess the "bad guys" are just harder working and smarter |
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Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:09:41 -
[231] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:You understamd how fast a tractor pulls in a can?? Freaking fast dude
approach Orca from there approach to Exhumer(s) with cans out so that you move 3-4km away form orca drop Can open can window wait for the tractored can to get into grab range open it swipe to other window If not full and there's more cans on the way, repeat if full or no cans left, destroy your can
Nothing pisses a miner off more than a can of ore you destroyed. It's really not difficult.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1083
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:41:25 -
[232] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:You understamd how fast a tractor pulls in a can?? Freaking fast dude approach Orca from there approach to Exhumer(s) with cans out so that you move 3-4km away form orca drop Can open can window wait for the tractored can to get into grab range open it swipe to other window If not full and there's more cans on the way, repeat if full or no cans left, destroy your can Nothing pisses a miner off more than a can of ore you destroyed. It's really not difficult. Except if you then tell him to pay you 10mil for a mining permit and praise James, that really ticks them off.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Magnus Roden
10
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:50:07 -
[233] - Quote
Touch+¬
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
236
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:56:51 -
[234] - Quote
I can only think at this point that you deliberately derailed this thread in order to get it locked by ISD. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6244
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:58:58 -
[235] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Please tell me how you take one alt and flip the exumer can MID TRACTOR PULL then have an alt take the blue can and put it in his own. If there is a mobile tractor unit itll take in the blue can immediately. 1. Drop your own tractor 2. Flip all but 1 unit to your own can 3. Watch as your tractor pulls in the blue can while his pulls in the 1 last unit from his can.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11153
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Posted - 2015.06.01 18:20:43 -
[236] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed. Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag. Bears cry to get game mechanics changed and nerfed. "Bad guys" just well damn, and then figure out new ways to make the nerfed mechanics work for them again. Why can the bears just fogure out how to protect themselves and use mechanics for themselves like the "bad guys" always do? Every time there is a nerf cuz bears cried, the bad guys adapt and overcome and still blow up the bears. Guess the "bad guys" are just harder working and smarter
It's a matter of human natures clashing.
The "carebear" is the type of person who , when confronted with a situation, runs to someone else for a solution. You can see this behavior in kids when confronted by a bully, the ones who fight back don't get bullied anymore, the ones who run to a teacher to get the bully "in trouble" ends up getting it worse down the line (because he just signaled to everyone that he's not only a good bully target, he's a snitch as well, making himself even more enemies) than if he's just fought back and risked an ass whopping (for then at least he'd have gained the respect of a few people instead of making a bunch of enemies.
"Bad Guys" are people who look for an advantage, ANY advantage they can exploit, so it doesn't matter what rules or mechanics you change in game (or laws you change or prisons you build in real life), someone is always going to be trying to figure out the best way to get past that to get what they want. Carebears don't understand this because they don't think this way, so they keep thinking they are winning when CCP adds things like safeties and buffed exhumers and anchor rigs when in fact none of that stuff even helps, because the problem wasn't game mechanics, it was the basic natu8re of carebears than 'bad guys' love to exploit.
The 'cure' for bad guys isn't ccp intervention (that just makes it worse) is what 10s of thousands of us do every day and night in this game: understanding the bad guys and flying/acting in a way that discourages them from even trying us. in 8 years of playing EVE I've lost exactly 2 shuttles and 100 million isk to "bad guys" (the 2 shuttles were empty and I was afking, the 100 mil I lost to a scam where I bought a t1 hauler for the wrong price because of how I had my market window set, chalk it up to me being in a hurry and stupid).
Mix those two types (bad guys and carebears) together and you get...EVE Online lol. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1660
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Posted - 2015.06.01 18:35:14 -
[237] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue. Its free for anyone to take from at that point. So yes can flipping was killed. Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag. Bears cry to get game mechanics changed and nerfed. "Bad guys" just well damn, and then figure out new ways to make the nerfed mechanics work for them again. Why can the bears just fogure out how to protect themselves and use mechanics for themselves like the "bad guys" always do? Every time there is a nerf cuz bears cried, the bad guys adapt and overcome and still blow up the bears. Guess the "bad guys" are just harder working and smarter Don't Feyd and Kaarous hate you already? Why you offending them again?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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