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Nom X3
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:22:16 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
So i'm 6 months into the game and very new to these forums. I've been absolutely loving this game though, so I took the time to look into the dev blog for the upcoming sov changes. It looks like a great concept, and I get why things are being changed. However, there are a few things that feel very immersion breaking for me. This is concerning to me; as being immersed in a virtual reality of space is important to me when playing this game, and it's what keeps me around even though all my RL friends don't have the patience to play this game with me...
These are a few things I noticed:
I. Vulnerability Timers
I don't like this at all. Structures should be vulnerable at ALL times. I know they implemented this so that smaller alliances could own some space in nullsec without being pushed out by the larger alliances, but it's just too immersion breaking for me...I don't have the perfect answer to make this better, but I do know that this solution just feels far too artificial for me.
One thing I thought of was instead of "Vulnerability Windows" that scale with Activity Defense modifiers. It could be replaced by having strong NPC ships that defend your territory, which scale with Activity Defense Multipliers instead of having a Vulnerability Window at all.
II. Command Nodes
Again, very artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation for a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? I understand the point is to spread out pvp so that there is smaller gang action instead of giant Blobs, but again, very immersion breaking for me. I want smaller gang PvP too, but I don't think this is the way to do it... I have no ideas how to make this better, so maybe this really is the best solution. With all the great minds on Eve i imagine that someone has got to have a great idea out there.
Just My 2cents... This will probably will fall on deaf ears though since I'm such a new player, But I just wanted to throw out my personal opinion to anyone that may be listening.
Regards,
n0m_ |
Paranoid Loyd
5442
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:26:11 -
[2] - Quote
So it's not immersion breaking for you to get your ship blown up, get podded and then magically reappear ready to do it over again? It's a game, for it to be fun it can't be immersive in every way.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
197
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:32:30 -
[3] - Quote
I guess part of the answer is that more effort should be needed to destroy content that a player has created, than the effort that player took to create it.
Perhaps all that talk about asymmetry concerns that concept.
All I know is that if I built a base in EVE and then have it destroyed while I'm not playing, then I'd never build a base again.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6673
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:39:40 -
[4] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote:Hi,
So i'm 6 months into the game and very new to these forums. I've been absolutely loving this game though, so I took the time to look into the dev blog for the upcoming sov changes. It looks like a great concept, and I get why things are being changed. However, there are a few things that feel very immersion breaking for me. This is concerning to me; as being immersed in a virtual reality of space is important to me when playing this game, and it's what keeps me around even though all my RL friends don't have the patience to play this game with me...
These are a few things I noticed:
I. Vulnerability Timers
I don't like this at all. Structures should be vulnerable at ALL times. I know they implemented this so that smaller alliances could own some space in nullsec without being pushed out by the larger alliances, but it's just too immersion breaking for me...I don't have the perfect answer to make this better, but I do know that this solution just feels far too artificial for me.
One thing I thought of was instead of "Vulnerability Windows" that scale with Activity Defense modifiers. It could be replaced by having strong NPC ships that defend your territory, which scale with Activity Defense Multipliers instead of having a Vulnerability Window at all.
II. Command Nodes
Again, very artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation for a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? I understand the point is to spread out pvp so that there is smaller gang action instead of giant Blobs, but again, very immersion breaking for me. I want smaller gang PvP too, but I don't think this is the way to do it... I have no ideas how to make this better, so maybe this really is the best solution. With all the great minds on Eve i imagine that someone has got to have a great idea out there.
Just My 2cents... This will probably will fall on deaf ears though since I'm such a new player, But I just wanted to throw out my personal opinion to anyone that may be listening.
Regards,
n0m_
The old SOV changes were immersion breaking too, FYI.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
21538
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:40:48 -
[5] - Quote
Immersion Breaking.
People keep saying this term. I don't think it means what they think it means.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Solstice Punk
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
18
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:45:19 -
[6] - Quote
That's some high class trolling. Absolutely most will fall for it !
Straight 10/10 !
- All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25197
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:53:41 -
[7] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote:So i'm 6 months into the game and very new to these forums. That would explain why you think these non-additions would break immersion, when the game already has all the things you say you dislike, and have had them since roughly forever because it was proven very early on that not having them broke pretty much everything, including immersion.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Solstice Punk
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
18
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Posted - 2015.05.29 22:54:46 -
[8] - Quote
Yay Tippia ! ^_^
- All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
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Nom X3
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:04:58 -
[9] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Immersion Breaking.
People keep saying this term. I don't think it means what they think it means.
This is what I meant by immersion breaking...
I. Vulnerability Timers
Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them...
II. Command Nodes
artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting?
Quote:
That's some high class trolling. Absolutely most will fall for it !
Straight 10/10 !
Not my intent at all. This was just my honest opinion. I spent most of today reading all about the details CCP has posted regarding this sov change. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25200
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:24:24 -
[10] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote:I. Vulnerability Timers
Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them... Because it would create (and has created) awful gameplay if it such timers didn't exist.
Quote:II. Command Nodes
artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? Because it creates (and has created) awful gameplay if such a distribution of targets doesn't exist.
Is your immersion broken right now, when both of those are already in place? If not, what will change when they are still around after the patch? If it is, what will change when they are still around after the patch? More importantly, do you really want the game to have awful gameplay just so your immersion (most likely won't) increase?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3431
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:33:24 -
[11] - Quote
No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.
Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25202
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:38:17 -
[12] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.
Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both? They don't have to be, but they are. It's the experience of having systems that don't have those constraints that has led to our having them.
If you can think of a way to avoid ownership ping-pong and jamming a system to the point of bursting without the use of timers and incentives to spread out, then it would be interesting to hear. So far though, sov has been a constant topic since it was introduced and no workable solutions that have really emerged that fit all requirements.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Solstice Punk
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
20
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:40:37 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nom X3 wrote:I. Vulnerability Timers
Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them... Because it would create (and has created) awful gameplay if it such timers didn't exist. Quote:II. Command Nodes
artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? Because it creates (and has created) awful gameplay if such a distribution of targets doesn't exist. Is your immersion broken right now, when both of those are already in place? If not, what will change when they are still around after the patch? If it is, what will change when they are still around after the patch? More importantly, do you really want the game to have awful gameplay just so your immersion (most likely won't) increase?
Trivia.
Is he a roleplayer, or a sad escapist ? (for anyone else: see 'alof' thread)
- All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
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Nom X3
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:46:05 -
[14] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.
Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both?
This!! |
Solstice Punk
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
20
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:52:22 -
[15] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.
Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both? This!! No.
The real question is: Why do YOU need it any more immersive ?
- All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
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Seven Koskanaiken
Positive Failure Black Legion.
1519
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:52:53 -
[16] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote:Again, very artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation for a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? I understand the point is to spread out pvp so that there is smaller gang action instead of giant Blobs, but again, very immersion breaking for me.
Before the B-R there was a battle in HED-GP so bad that I managed to watch 2 James Bond movies before even exiting the warp tunnel.
Although really you are a year late in your objections, in the immediate aftermath any suggestion of spreading objective across systems was considering "breaking the sandbox", though apparently now implemented the fanbois are all in support of it, hey ho, I guess the pendulum swings. |
Zealous Miner
238
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:57:25 -
[17] - Quote
All of these Sov changes remind me of the Battle of Endor.
www.minerbumping.com
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Wendrika Hydreiga
373
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:05:25 -
[18] - Quote
The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.
It gets easier with time, I've been told! |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
21541
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:28:10 -
[19] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.
It gets easier with time, I've been told!
You couldn't do that. Itll be a valid argument way before we get hats.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Paranoid Loyd
5458
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:28:20 -
[20] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.
It gets easier with time, I've been told! Mmmm, hat
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6673
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Posted - 2015.05.30 08:10:32 -
[21] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.
It gets easier with time, I've been told! You couldn't do that. Itll be a valid argument way before we get hats.
I want a top hat so bad
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
961
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Posted - 2015.05.30 08:27:41 -
[22] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote:In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them... In a real war you would be on standby 24/7, ready to fight off any aggressors whenever and whereever need be.
Obviously there is this annoying thing called RL, which introduces time of day to a space game.
That said I do not find Entosis links very immersive myself, but yeah, it is just a game after all.
Remove insurance.
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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
230
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Posted - 2015.05.30 09:12:23 -
[23] - Quote
Nom X3 wrote: This is what I meant by immersion breaking...
I. Vulnerability Timers
Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them...
II. Command Nodes
artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting?.
I. Sure I can see it being less than ideal, but "realistically," there's not much else they can do with this one. It's either that or watch every system flip flop at the peak hours for various Alliances, day, after day, after day - No one would be able to hold anything... ever.
II. As for this one, I can see how this makes sense even when taking your "immersion" into consideration. Just take real world warfare as an example, you invade a country with a specific objective in mind, however in order to reach that objective you aren't just going to be driving your tanks into the capital bypassing the various military installation's and defences along the way.
On the contrary you are going to strike at the various defences, installations, etc. probably have skirmishes in various locations around the countryside, before eventually (if your campaign is going well,) making the final push for the main objective. Command Nodes are those "installations" or "defences" or whatever, that you need to capture, and presumably hold, on your way to final victory. |
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