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Kosmo destroyer ofsocks
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.05.30 15:42:44 -
[1] - Quote
I have not played EvE in almost 3 years so thought i would create a new character to re do the New Player Experience.
So the game has changed a lot.
Even knowing the basic controls I wasconfused but got it. The tutorials where well done and i manged through them. Although without any reward I feel like they are missing a lot.
The big thing that stuck out to me was skill books, I needed skill books to do many things such as manufacturing (industry 1) Scanning, hacking.
Their needs to be civilian modules for these that do not require skills. Let us build a noob ship with a 1x copy of it. Or rather than the old system of giving us a ship(old tutorial) let those down the industrial path build it with a civilian blue print that has no skill requirement.
A civilian scanner probe that takes no skills but can only find the most basic of signals (the others just don't show up so it makes it simpler)
A hacking module that does not require electronic upgrades 3. Yes they can be trained in a day...but there was nothing telling me what to train, and having to wait to do something is not fun.
That bring me to my next point, when a module does not fit, tell me what skill I need, maybe even have a tutorial of buying a skill book come up automatically earlier (their is one but it never showed up until i did it..)
Same for manufacturing, i simply didn't work when i tried to build a shuttle. If i didn't have previous experience to click the tiny "i" i would never now i needed industry 1. A tutorial on how to investigate an item may be helpful...give a new mod and have anew bro look at it, need a skill have him inject it and boom happy guy and he learned a lot.
Also new players need quick ways to get more isk as they play. giving 10,000 isk per achievement won't break anything (yes it's a faucet) but will keep them rewarded. Not that your isk is easy to see...this needs to be more prominent and give a sense of accomplishment. (full disclosure some guy gave me 10mil isk after a msged him for a tutorial that you enter a conversation, with out which i would not have had enough isk to do as much as i did).
I also feel very alone, i have prevouse experiance with fleets and corps so now how they work, but i still feel very alone. I see a few other new players in noob ships about in green (from my corp). Would be nice if new players where fleeted up and could discover eve together. The social connections are what make this game. Have all players with a similar age, in the same 3-4 systems, in the noob corp the option to join the fleet. If they move to far away prompt them if they want to leave.
This would bring a larger social aspect to new players and help them work together to discover eve.
Just some quick thoughts on what i have experienced so far. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
573
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:29:19 -
[2] - Quote
I see this from time to time when an old player returns to the game and starts a new character and then complains that skills are holding them back. I brand new player has so much to learn that having to train a level 3 skill while they do other stuff won't be an issue. There is so much stuff for them to do at that point that it is overwhelming.
I'm pretty sure you can re-do the tutorials on an old toon. I know on all of my toons I have had the opportunities icon sitting up in the upper left-hand corner of my screen since it released.
10k isk is not hard to make even for a new player. A rat that can be killed by an hours old player in a frigate with a 10K or higher bounty are not difficult to find. The key is for new players to find experienced players to hang out with and learn from. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
573
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 16:39:04 -
[3] - Quote
Something else that I wanted to add is that this game is not for everyone. It's targeted more towards adventurous types that like to play around with stuff and figure things out and more importantly figure out how they like to do it. It is no coincidence that a much larger percentage of coders play this game than exist amongst the average.
So if you are looking for an MMO that spells things out for you with step by step instructions and rewards you for every minor achievement along the prescribed, or maybe even only, path then this is not the game for you. Luckily,for players with those interests, pretty much every other MMO out there is so a player with those interests will be fine anywhere else but Eve. |
Kosmo destroyer ofsocks
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.05.30 17:12:39 -
[4] - Quote
Why should the game be needlessly hard for new players?
Eve benefits from new players and new victims. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8096
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Posted - 2015.05.30 18:12:25 -
[5] - Quote
Kosmo destroyer ofsocks wrote:Why should the game be needlessly hard for new players? Seriously?
Because...
- the game actually gets harder the more involved you get. (see: even you get to the "top of the food chain" it does not mean that people will stop trying to kill you... if anything, more people will. And staying "king" is a lot more complicated and tedious than most people think)
- the game becomes less "fair" the longer your play... or rather, you begin to SEE more and more "unfair" gameplay the more aware and experienced you become. (NOTE: the game is designed to be "unfair" for everyone... which, in a sense, makes everything "fair")
- the more you invest in something, the more at-risk you are of some major game change coming along and crushing your operation. And the DEVs do not reimburse you for speculation. Nor do they guarantee the viability of your gameplay. (NOTE: people lose BILLIONS of ISK in investments each time there is a nerf or buff)
- even as a veteran with tons of skillpoints and money... there are still MANY situations where you can be beaten by a bunch of players with a fraction of the skillpoints and ISK investment you put in.
- a nubbin can affect the world around him/her for better and worse. However that effect is small because the nubbin is "small." Get a bunch of nubbins together and the effect will become more significant (and potentially dangerous to veteran players). The real trick lies in leadership.
tldr; because EVE is a "rat race." You can never "win." The challenges you face merely change as your progress. Today, it could be lack of skills that hinder you. Tomorrow, it could be the lack of allies you have. The day after that it could be ISK that prevents you from doing something. And the day after that it could be the tactics you have trained to use. And then we come full circle back to skills. The only thing that can get you through all this and keep on going is a GOOD MENTALITY.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
574
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Posted - 2015.05.30 18:42:19 -
[6] - Quote
Kosmo destroyer ofsocks wrote:Why should the game be needlessly hard for new players?
Eve benefits from new players and new victims. I've been playing this game since 2009 and there is still a **** ton that I do not know and still can learn. Yet a brand new player can jump in a PvP fleet on day 1 and be productive.
The game is not needlessly hard. It is deep and engaging. The things that you are complaining about are the reasons that I play this game.
I feel like WoW has ruined the MMO genre or maybe we did by playing it. Regardless it seems like every other MMO is streamlined into a linear path that sets you in the storyline as some impossible hero with everyone worshiping at your feet and fluffing you off like some sort of demigod.
I feel like Eve is one of the few MMOs left that does not tell you exactly what to do and how to do it and when to do it and what gear you need to have and how to get to max level quickest etc... I think some people just don't even understand what play is anymore.
If CCP were to follow what you suggest here then Eve would become WoW and I'd have to stop playing it. Eve is not needless nor prohibitively hard. A brand new player can participate in pretty much every activity in game on day 1 in a productive emergent and engaging way while still able to be challenged by the game 6 years on. |
SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.01 16:40:37 -
[7] - Quote
I agree with OP.
As for civilian modules, they need to create BPOs for them, with a total mineral cost of something in the 500-1000 isk range, so people will sell modules on the market for cheap. They're only drops right now, which really sucks, because they don't even drop that often.
A civilian web or something, in amarr thats like 100-200k more money than a damn T1. The cost structure for current civilian stuff makes no sense when newbies who have no isk are the very people who need that stuff.
The whole situation is ass backwards. |
Ashlar Maidstone
Moonfyre Science and Research Inc.
186
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Posted - 2015.06.01 19:24:57 -
[8] - Quote
Pretty intimadating right? For the most BASIC ships and fittings for a new player, I like to see that there is a way for them to get used to doing even the most basic tutorials and then progress at a rate of understanding that they can learn at their own pace. What I am getting at here is we need to help them in every way that we can to get used to the way Eve works.
OP, you bring some very good valid points and I encourage you to even think of joining Eve-Uni or Brave Newbies as they have programs that will help you in the long run, I wished now I did but like a lot of older players I stumbled around trying to figure this and that and the other out.
Best of Luck! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9807
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:10:15 -
[9] - Quote
Kosmo destroyer ofsocks wrote:Why should the game be needlessly hard for new players?
Eve benefits from new players and new victims. Because eve is needlessly hard.
Best find out sooner rather than later.
=]|[=
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8120
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Posted - 2015.06.01 21:17:39 -
[10] - Quote
SpaceClap wrote:A civilian web or something, in amarr thats like 100-200k more money than a damn T1. The cost structure for current civilian stuff makes no sense when newbies who have no isk are the very people who need that stuff.
The whole situation is ass backwards. Welcome to the wonderful world of economics... where an item's market value may have absolutely nothing to do with its actual value. Examples: exotic dancers, Procurers, several PI goods, pretty much any and all faction ships/equipment.
The same can be said about usefulness.
Speaking as a veteran... sometimes I spent loads of money on things that make no sense. Because I can. And because I want to. Like having a collection of civilian modules. I will never actually use them. But they are rare. So I MUST have them.
In a seriousness though... right now, the first day you play EVE you are pretty much learning the interface and how to train skills. By the time you have reasonably worked everything out, you should be able to use pretty much any and all tech 1 modules. Because, yes, it takes that long. And no, the skills are really that short of a train.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
579
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Posted - 2015.06.01 22:30:50 -
[11] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:I agree with OP.
As for civilian modules, they need to create BPOs for them, with a total mineral cost of something in the 500-1000 isk range, so people will sell modules on the market for cheap. They're only drops right now, which really sucks, because they don't even drop that often.
A civilian web or something, in amarr thats like 100-200k more money than a damn T1. The cost structure for current civilian stuff makes no sense when newbies who have no isk are the very people who need that stuff.
The whole situation is ass backwards. The civilian modules are really just there for tutorial missions. They give you a mission that requires you to fit or use some module and so they give you a civilian module which has stats so crappy that it is nearly useless outside the mission that uses it and give it no fitting requirements so anyone can do the mission. If you actually need to use the module for what it's intended purpose is then train for the T1 low meta version. In almost all cases it takes literally minutes to train for. |
Ziela Mangeiri
Warp Nomads
5
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Posted - 2015.06.02 11:28:07 -
[12] - Quote
Hey man!
I know what you mean, eve has you running into walls a lot of the time. I run a small corporation, and most of my gameplay consists of organizing, and talking to people. There's really no easy way, even when you have people doing the work for you! ;) Knowledge is power though. Many older players make alts, and have them combat ready in a month or two (without training anything else). Focusing on a certain aspect of the game makes the skill training a bit more manageable.
Your best bet on a new character, by far, is to find an older (more experienced) player to assist you in the beginning, to help figure out what you should be spending your time on. Exploration, like you mentioned, is not a bad choice at all for a young character.
Hope you catch the bug! |
Anthonious Sarcuunni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 16:37:44 -
[13] - Quote
I thought the tutorial was almost non-existent, vague, and confusion more than anything else. One of the worst I've seen.
This game NEEDS a proper training system.
I tried this game years upon years ago, and vaguely recall rage quitting without ever having gotten out of the hangar. I put a little more time into it and was able to grasp a few things, however this tutorial is pretty bad.
I searched an agent and ended up jumping to one 45 points away, as a noob...died right as I got out of one of the final gates. Good thing I was only in the starter ship and not one of the uninsured ones from the packages I bought.
I really thought that there was a severe lack of explanation for a new player. For the length of time this game has been around, almost as long as Warcraft I think, this tutorial is, for a lack of a better word, garbage. |
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