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Rockbox
Amarr Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:24:00 -
[1]
Double you tee eff?
Yeah guys, these ships with blasters will pwn your AC boat in a second with void so stay away and use your falloff. Their Null is still a bit overpowered in a sense that it can out dps you in your Barrage range, yeah I know blasters are supposed to be extreme close range insane damage weapons....
O WAIT now barrage gets a tracking penalty....so! You enter void range and try to use hail....you die, ok lets try keeping range, omg! Tracking penalty ftl....
Many sad faces as Matari combat philosophy is gutted by ammo limitations.
Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Xoduse on 17/11/2006 01:35:43 Null got a tracking hit too - and a damage reduction. Besides, it's fall off doesnt touch what you Matari have with barrage.
BTW void took a hit to damage/range. ---------------------
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Rockbox
Amarr Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:37:00 -
[3]
Barrage was also damage nerfed all ammo was. Hits less and does less dmg ftl?
Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:39:00 -
[4]
guess we are all gonna have to go w/ pulse lasers now on our throns and pests.
.....
BWAHAHA!!! i couldn't keep a straight face. yeah, looks like ccp just wants us all to go back to tech I ammo? I mean, we could do that.
But wouldnt it be easier for ccp to say they have way screwed up w/ t2 ammo and take it out of the game entirely?
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Rockbox
Amarr Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:40:00 -
[5]
Just dosent make any sense.
Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
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Raste
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:59:00 -
[6]
This seems harsh. Barrage seemed like about the best thing AC's had going for them, and they still weren't that great. |
Witty Moniker
Caldari The Legion.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 02:14:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Witty Moniker on 17/11/2006 02:16:54 I can understand the tweak to long range ammo, and somewhat understand the tweak to close range ammo damage. However, reducing both damage and tracking seems a bit harsh. Barrage is the only think that could actually make AutoCannons cause any damage at all. Less hits, and less damage a hit, along with more Hitpoints, etc, really hurts.
As said above, it does seem like T1 ammo will be loaded in to the guns again, instead of the T2 counterpart. Which is a bit sad, and totally negates the purpose and usage of T2 weapons and ammo all together.
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Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.17 02:21:00 -
[8]
Well great t2 ammo has gone from useable with a couple types overpowered to competely useless for the most part/ It's great being Amarr ain't it?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 02:38:00 -
[9]
I think that the t2 ammo nerfs are just way over the top, especially in light of the HP increase. T2 guns need to have a large advantage over their T1 counterparts, especially the BS sized guns. Narrowing the gap between the two just cheapens the skillpoints required and ruins the design of particular styles of ships- chiefly blaster/laser ships with regard to DPS, and AC ships with respect to range and speed.
Because I said so...
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.11.17 04:06:00 -
[10]
at worst, tech II guns have 8% more dps than tech I protos
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Azanar
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Posted - 2006.11.17 04:42:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Azanar on 17/11/2006 04:43:06
Originally by: Audri Fisher at worst, tech II guns have 8% more dps than tech I protos
And the obvious ISK / Time cost spend on getting the items, ammo and skills, which would make T2 weaponary my second choice.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.17 05:25:00 -
[12]
Barrage nerf per se is fine, but in that case the T1 shortrange ammo (EMP/PP/Fusion) needs some falloff-loving (or alternatively base falloffs could be increased).
Otherwise ACs are a bit competitively challenged. Nothing to cry foul about, but just a ~30% range tweak off being more than just weaker blasters with easier fittings.
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Witty Moniker
Caldari The Legion.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 06:07:00 -
[13]
It would be a bit silly to nerf T2 ammo, and boost T1 ammo though. Might as well just leave the T2 alone.
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.17 07:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: MECTO on 17/11/2006 07:52:02 well, barrage was overpowered same as null - now they nerfed, adapt [not null s and m and barrage s ofc ]
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Boyakasha
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MECTO Edited by: MECTO on 17/11/2006 07:52:02 well, barrage was overpowered same as null - now they nerfed, adapt [not null s and m and barrage s ofc ]
By adapt are you implying sitting still in front of targets? Or do you mean fit a cargo expander to carry the extra amout of barrage you'll need to make up for the amount you miss with? Or, possibly, do you mean change your trained weapon type?
Personally im completely at a loss to why this change was made - unless there has been an increase in tracking to t2 ACs on the test server but then thats changing something for no overall change so...
Hopefully things are still up in the air and Tux is trying something out, although the 28th draws close.
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Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:01:00 -
[16]
Its a stupid change really, simply because no one will use Barrage anymore. It was just EMP dmg, with some extra range, and all kinetic, explosive dmg. Now people will just emp and say meh to the range.
-------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:17:00 -
[17]
So barrage and null got nerfed to the point where theyre borderline useless.
Javelin, gleam, quake got a further range nerf taking and a dmg nerf them from barely usefull to worthless.
Jav torps got over nerfed they should keep their orginal flightime.
Spike, Tremor, Aroura got a needed dmg nerf but should still keep 100% range bonus.
Rage torps lost dmg and range but are able to hit single painted bses for full/near full dmg.
Void, Conflag, Hail got a dmg decrease and I think they all got a tracking neft too.
So we went from having a mostly blaneced t2 ammo layout with jav torps and long range sniper ammo being on the overpowered side to having a mostly unuseable t2 ammo layout, and still they didn't fix most of the completely worthless ammo such as jav rockets.
It's great being Amarr ain't it?
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cpt Abestos So barrage and null got nerfed to the point where theyre borderline useless.
Javelin, gleam, quake got a further range nerf taking and a dmg nerf them from barely usefull to worthless.
Jav torps got over nerfed they should keep either low exp radius or high damage and lose some missile velocity.
Spike, Tremor, Aroura got a needed range nerf but should still keep their damage.
Rage torps lost dmg and range but are able to hit single painted slow moving bses for full/near full dmg.
Void, Conflag, Hail got a dmg decrease and I think they all got a tracking neft too.
So we went from having a mostly blaneced t2 ammo layout with jav torps and long range sniper ammo being on the overpowered side to having a mostly unuseable t2 ammo layout, and still they didn't fix most of the completely worthless ammo such as jav rockets.
Fixed it for you The saddest thing about all this nerfing is that now most of that nerfed T2 ammo isn't even worth its production cost, much less the real market cost needed for the BPO to amortize itself. Poor people who recently bought ammo BPOs... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:01:00 -
[19]
Thats right, keep killing any reasons for playing minmatar ccp.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:02:00 -
[20]
and Null still owns it...
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:33:00 -
[21]
Changes to close range T2 ammo were simply not needed.
The hitpoints increase serves its purpose in this respect. No need to make useable T2 worthless.
After all, think of the time investment to use large T2 guns. Frankly anyone who invests that time deserves an advantage.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:35:00 -
[22]
so i guess factional ammo now becomes a reasonable choice
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Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Cpt Abestos So barrage and null got nerfed to the point where theyre borderline useless.
Javelin, gleam, quake got a further range nerf taking and a dmg nerf them from barely usefull to worthless.
Jav torps got over nerfed they should keep either low exp radius or high damage and lose some missile velocity.
Spike, Tremor, Aroura got a needed range nerf but should still keep their damage.
Rage torps lost dmg and range but are able to hit single painted slow moving bses for full/near full dmg.
Void, Conflag, Hail got a dmg decrease and I think they all got a tracking neft too.
So we went from having a mostly blaneced t2 ammo layout with jav torps and long range sniper ammo being on the overpowered side to having a mostly unuseable t2 ammo layout, and still they didn't fix most of the completely worthless ammo such as jav rockets.
Fixed it for you The saddest thing about all this nerfing is that now most of that nerfed T2 ammo isn't even worth its production cost, much less the real market cost needed for the BPO to amortize itself. Poor people who recently bought ammo BPOs...
T2 long rage ammo needs to keep its range other wise youre looking at 180+falloff on megat vs 250opt on a rokh now if you keep the range its 200-220+optimal vs 250. The rokh shouldnt beable to out range other fleet bses that badly seeing as it doesn't have to fit hardly any tracking mods and can hit at 100km+ with am which is sexy enough. It's great being Amarr ain't it?
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Omatje
Minmatar Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:19:00 -
[24]
T2 projectile ammo is really a joke.
ok people might find high dammage ammo cool, because you might get on top of the killmail when you are flying in a gang.
But with all tracking penalty and either a huge speed or cap drain nerf i doubt i will ever use it again in solo/small engagements.
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:39:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Paigan on 17/11/2006 11:39:57
Originally by: murder one I think that the t2 ammo nerfs are just way over the top, especially in light of the HP increase. T2 guns need to have a large advantage over their T1 counterparts, especially the BS sized guns. Narrowing the gap between the two just cheapens the skillpoints required and ruins the design of particular styles of ships- chiefly blaster/laser ships with regard to DPS, and AC ships with respect to range and speed.
I can't get tired of saying:
T2 is (obviously) NOT meant to have a large gap to T1. No, it's not.
Look at other T2 stuff. It's 20% better in average. Some only 10% (Hardeners) Some 50% (DCU2)
T2 Turrets are 20% already With T2 ammo being better another ... don't have the exact sisi number right now... 20%-40% better, the guns still have an overall gap from 145% to 170% compared to T1. That's enough, maybe even still too good.
Yes you read right: maybe even still too good!
All other T2 items are supposed to be "a little better, if you can afford it". And not "T1 is total crap and useless in comparison"
I say go on nerfing them down to balance! -- This game is still in beta stage |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Paigan Edited by: Paigan on 17/11/2006 11:39:57
Originally by: murder one I think that the t2 ammo nerfs are just way over the top, especially in light of the HP increase. T2 guns need to have a large advantage over their T1 counterparts, especially the BS sized guns. Narrowing the gap between the two just cheapens the skillpoints required and ruins the design of particular styles of ships- chiefly blaster/laser ships with regard to DPS, and AC ships with respect to range and speed.
I can't get tired of saying:
T2 is (obviously) NOT meant to have a large gap to T1. No, it's not.
Look at other T2 stuff. It's 20% better in average. Some only 10% (Hardeners) Some 50% (DCU2)
T2 Turrets are 20% already With T2 ammo being better another ... don't have the exact sisi number right now... 20%-40% better, the guns still have an overall gap from 145% to 170% compared to T1. That's enough, maybe even still too good.
Yes you read right: maybe even still too good!
All other T2 items are supposed to be "a little better, if you can afford it". And not "T1 is total crap and useless in comparison"
I say go on nerfing them down to balance!
Ever heard of named items?
The best named weapons have an idential Damage Mod/Range to the T2 version. The only difference is they can't use T2 ammo.
Several months of training should be worthwhile. Not a waste of time.
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PSEWAR
Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Paigan Yes you read right: maybe even still too good!
All other T2 items are supposed to be "a little better, if you can afford it". And not "T1 is total crap and useless in comparison"
I say go on nerfing them down to balance!
You seem to completly forget that T2 Ammo has penalties. So e.G. a little increase in dmg is actually a loss in dmg due to the heavy penalities.
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Ysolde Xen
Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Miss Overlord so i guess factional ammo now becomes a reasonable choice
That's just it. Faction ammo 4tw. Quick! Farm those faction spawns/complexes to feed your guns! Oh hang on...
-----
It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong. |
Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:22:00 -
[29]
Hehe....to look at T1 guns with T1 ammo vs T2 guns with T2 ammo is wrong.....
You do know it is possible to use T2 guns with T1 ammo?
T2 guns with T1 ammo vs T2 guns with T2 ammo has a very litle difference in damage dealth...
This is why ppl say T1 ammo may be a better choise then T2 ammo.....
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Happster T2 guns with T1 ammo vs T2 guns with T2 ammo has a very litle difference in damage dealth...
All i see is that T1 longrange Turrets are virtually not existant compared to T2 longrange turrets' range AND damage. T1 130km with pathetic damage T2 220km with still good damage
And that T1 short range turrets die completely hopeless when fighting T2 short range turrets of the same kind, despite any penalties they have.
Both situations are not "a fair amount better" (like with shield boosters, reppers, hardeners, f.ex.) but more like "refine your T1 guns, even best named, and stay at home untill you have T2 guns"
This is nonsense.
No objections like "but they have penalties!" will change that. Only a fix changes that. -- This game is still in beta stage |
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