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The 800k SP Cost (and no it's not 2 weeks)

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Bareck Strongarm	Posted - 2006.11.22 10:53:00 - [121] The people whining over this increase in skill points remind me of children who have been told they must halve a candy bar. One of the children starts to cry and kick his feet and whine that his portion of the candybar is slightly smaller. It's just plain silly and childish.
Mentor Grange Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.22 11:27:00 - [122] Originally by: Viictoria So what do you want? Free SP to asign as you see fit? Don't just complain without offering any kind of solution. (and don't forget that whatever you want they'd have to give it to every single existing player) Yes, exactly. I have seen that put forth several times now. If putting it forth again is helpful, so be it. Here's my suggestion: if a new character is going to end up "better" then you then start yourself a brand new character right after Kali and reap the rewards youself. If not, then you have absolutely nothing to complain about. So... get over it (YES I SAID IT). Sure, they should just delete the character they've been working on. Thats fair. Pretty much final proof that the time spent on that character was wasted. Anyone who thinks that is fair just doesn't care about other people's issues...of course, why should anyone care? God, next thing you know people will demand SP refunds when something gets nerfed. That's just NOT the way it works, changes to the game ALWAYS affect existing players and benefit players who have not played before, THAT is how it works. If it was something drastic I could see some compensation given but this? Mountain, molehill, etc. Actually, maybe it should be. If the laws of the universe change, maybe you should get a respec. Different issue...but seems reasonable to me. Oh, by the way, it is drastic to folks who have played just a month or so...800K amounts to 100% of their skillpoints. It's just not drastic to you. Mentor
Mentor Grange Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.22 11:33:00 - [123] Originally by: Bareck Strongarm The people whining over this increase in skill points remind me of children who have been told they must halve a candy bar. One of the children starts to cry and kick his feet and whine that his portion of the candybar is slightly smaller. It's just plain silly and childish. It's not a good analogy, but here is a better one. A child has worked hard all day in return for a promised candybar. His brother has sat on his rump and done nothing. At the end of the day, Grandma gives the hard working boy a candybar. She gives the same thing to the brother who did nothing. In return for his service, the child who worked feels like a fool. Thats bad policy for a government, a grandmother, or a game company. Mentor
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.22 11:40:00 - [124] How exactly is "waiting" hard work?
Mentor Grange Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.22 11:56:00 - [125] Originally by: Illistar DeathWing Well, perhaps you could come up with ideas to fix this and actually help ccp? All you have done here is called them stupid for putting this in. If for exemple you came on and asked for pre-kali caracters to get double training speed untill 800k was reached that would be constructive. All you done was critisize them. He has given at least two, which were as a recap: 1) Give the 800K skillpoints to everyone (possibly tough to execute), or 2) Rework the creation process to not give lvl 5 skills. Mentor
Mentor Grange Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.22 12:02:00 - [126] Originally by: Aramendel How exactly is "waiting" hard work? It isn't. However, time is the most valuable commodity of all. The best idea may be to just not give the lvl 5 skills to kali-noobs. Almost all the problem numerically stems from that. Oh, by the way, is it really true that new players are starting with an 8.0 faction in Empire? That would take a lot of work to duplicate. I bet many 20M skillpoint players are nowhere near having that. Mentor.
Bareck Strongarm	Posted - 2006.11.22 12:12:00 - [127] Originally by: Mentor Grange Originally by: Bareck Strongarm The people whining over this increase in skill points remind me of children who have been told they must halve a candy bar. One of the children starts to cry and kick his feet and whine that his portion of the candybar is slightly smaller. It's just plain silly and childish. It's not a good analogy, but here is a better one. A child has worked hard all day in return for a promised candybar. His brother has sat on his rump and done nothing. At the end of the day, Grandma gives the hard working boy a candybar. She gives the same thing to the brother who did nothing. In return for his service, the child who worked feels like a fool. Thats bad policy for a government, a grandmother, or a game company. Mentor Bad policy for a company? Rediculas, making changes to attract and keep new players is good for the company. It's all about the money. If they gain 10 new player's for every one player they loose to change. They have done there job. And the players who stay through the change will prosper because the game will have a healthy influx of new players. Or they can do as some other games have done and cater to a few whining older players and watch there subs go down and end up with a stagnate game. There doing the right thing and if you mistakenly think for one minute there going to miss you they won't, because there going to have happy new customers to replace you with.
Dray Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.22 12:13:00 - [128] 3 acc's, 2 of which have over 50M sp's 1 acc with 5M. I've been playing since beta and when eve went live I started with around 35k sp's, spent the early days training mining skills to improve my yield to get more isk to buy more skills and better ships, didnt have time to train the learning skills untill later, if I knew then what I know now I'd have done things differently and probably had even more sp's but I didnt. Bottom line is you make your choices, you live with what you have. CCP didnt screw you over, that is the single most ridiculous selfish load of bollox I've ever heard, and after 3 years of these forums thats quite an achievement. Every improvement that comes along has to give starting players a better chance, the learning curve in eve isnt steep, its a vertical smooth cliff face, I could think of a lot of things to ask CCP for that older players missed out on, like the advanced learning skills not being available at start, I want more sp's given to me free to make up for the people who started the game when they were available, its only fair isnt it? Now I think about it can I have all my current sp's and a blank sheet to spread them on to make up for skills I dont use anymore. While your at it give me a couple of million sp's more to make up for not having friends or people in game willing to lend a nub some time to give helpful advice. F**k it lets go the whole hog and give me a billion isk to get those skills so I can train them as soon possible. You see where I'm going here, even though I have a massively skilled character, with a little help at the beginning I couldve done a whole lot more. Your problem as I see it is timing, and for some reason you see fit to blame CCP, no one is to blame not even you, its just circumstances. Bite the bullet and keep playing or quit, its that simple. If you quit you wont be missed, if you stay welcome to a wonderful game with limitless depth and possibilities. You paint the picture, CCP gives you the canvas, sometimes it might feel like they's slipped in a few extra brushes and colours for some people but its all good, give the new guys help and keep them coming I say.
Mentor Grange Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.22 14:31:00 - [129] Originally by: Dray 3 acc's, 2 of which have over 50M sp's 1 acc with 5M. I've been playing since beta and when eve went live I started with around 35k sp's, spent the early days training mining skills to improve my yield to get more isk to buy more skills and better ships, didnt have time to train the learning skills untill later, if I knew then what I know now I'd have done things differently and probably had even more sp's but I didnt. Bottom line is you make your choices, you live with what you have. CCP didnt screw you over, that is the single most ridiculous selfish load of bollox I've ever heard, and after 3 years of these forums thats quite an achievement. Every improvement that comes along has to give starting players a better chance, the learning curve in eve isnt steep, its a vertical smooth cliff face, I could think of a lot of things to ask CCP for that older players missed out on, like the advanced learning skills not being available at start, I want more sp's given to me free to make up for the people who started the game when they were available, its only fair isnt it? Now I think about it can I have all my current sp's and a blank sheet to spread them on to make up for skills I dont use anymore. While your at it give me a couple of million sp's more to make up for not having friends or people in game willing to lend a nub some time to give helpful advice. F**k it lets go the whole hog and give me a billion isk to get those skills so I can train them as soon possible. You see where I'm going here, even though I have a massively skilled character, with a little help at the beginning I couldve done a whole lot more. Your problem as I see it is timing, and for some reason you see fit to blame CCP, no one is to blame not even you, its just circumstances. Bite the bullet and keep playing or quit, its that simple. If you quit you wont be missed, if you stay welcome to a wonderful game with limitless depth and possibilities. You paint the picture, CCP gives you the canvas, sometimes it might feel like they's slipped in a few extra brushes and colours for some people but its all good, give the new guys help and keep them coming I say. All true. The choice I am making at the moment is to oppose an injustice I perceive to be avoidable. Once the injustice is in the world I will approach it as I always do--in a way designed to ensure I am among the parties advantaged by it. Mentor
Elfman The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.22 14:41:00 - [130] weird but characters on test tend to get given more Sp's than they have on live to be able to test. Aka I have logged onto test and had 5+mill more sp's than I had on live in the past. Would probably discount this extra SP's till there is a offical responce. And jees you have got a few months of playing an enjoing the game over someone who starts a new account after Kali. I have lost more skill points to forgeting to upgrade a clone and pvping than you are worrying about. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.

xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.22 17:22:00 - [131] I created my character in September and I sould not change a thing of what I did. I have crappy attributes, but I found a good corp and alliance who will help me make isk so that I can eventually buy an uber character. I'm fine with the Kali changes.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.11.22 17:36:00 - [132] Why is everyone screaming about this issue? I see no reason for anyone over three months to really say anything to be honest. Some of these new players could use t2 modules true, but where will they get the funding also how would they even know how to use them well? Af for players a month old or younger, get your learning skills to 3 each of them, that should take maybe four days or so then you could rank them up to level four, don't bother with level five for a while. Then you can start to branch out in skills to help you fit your skip aswell as gunnery and missile skills if your ship uses them. When kali comes out you will ahve more playing exsperience them them, more money then them, and if your learning skills are at 3+ or 4+ you should have more SP then them but in more focused and useful areas that you control so while their still woundering how everything even works your SP gain will be higher still for another two or more weeks. Everyone needs to calm down and look it over. This is just like real life, the younger generation starts off a bit better then the last generation. The 800k seems a tad high but looking into where they are put is justified. The level five skills eat up alot of that SP and barrly change anything and what's more they won't have the money to buy the t2 parts that they can use. For corporations this is a boost because they can take on players who can be simi-effective asap and not in three weeks, two weeks if they are told what is best to train. This would help players get more adicted to eve meaning more subscribers, this means more thens bought off the market so it help industrialists and miners. PvP it helps as it's more fodder aswell as they might be a bit smart and hunt in packs but are over confident. If you started say, one week befor Kali, you a bit screwed but all you do is, hand you things to a corp mate or in corp volt and make a kali char re join and get you things back, the time you lost was for learning how to play eve now you know so time wasn't really lost, if you have more then 500k sp then keep your char, your slearning skills will make that gap grow befor the kali chars realize what to do properly
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2006.11.22 18:31:00 - [133] Ok, I've gone through this trainwreck of a thread and I'm throwing in my two cents. My DoB in game is 10/13/2006, for my first character. At present, I've got 990k SP. But THAT doesn't matter. The number of skill points are irrelevant. Before I joined my corp, my skills were being spread out, because I was trying to do everything. Since I've been in a corp, my skills have focused more, specifically towards mining. Help me, help my corp. Now, I'm flying a retriever and working on astro 5. Yes, it could have been done a lot sooner, but as I've said before, I tried to do it all, and was completely unfocused. Now, I've got mining to 4 and industry to 5. That means I spent around 12 days training those skills. If a kali player starts with (as an example) mining 4 and industry 5, then (from a training perspective) I've lost 12 days. Yes, they will still have to train those learning skills (all of mine are at 4, except learning which is 3). However, based on what I've seen, they typically start with one learning skill at 4 as well, so that's another 2-3 days wasted. So, of my what, 39 days, I'll have essentially wasted 14-15. That's really not cool. For those saying "** you, then quit!": 1. I thought the idea of discussing things was to actually try to communicate, ascertain multiple perspectives and opinions, and then make a decision based on your beliefs held against the backdrop of those perspectives and opinions. "** you, quit!" is not only close-minded and meritless to conversation, it is inflammatory. 2. I won't quit this character. If I remained unfocused and had no significant skills advanced, then yes. But because I've got certain skills built to a certain point, I would merely be wasting MORE time. 3. I will be restarting my second account. Under a week old right now and gets MUCH better skills in Kali. As for people complaining about how they only got 20k SP to start with when they began Eve, I started in that same boat, have 100k so far, and it's almost all learning skills. Focusing completely on combat. As for resolutions to this: 1. Take the kali skillset for the character, and apply any skills / levels not learned by the current character. This isn't great, as it screws over everyone who's played long enough to get those skills already. 2. Patch everyone the avg difference between a kali character and a starting character of the current system, to be spent as wanted. Better, but keeping track of the spare SP would be a pain. 3. As someone in my corp suggested, have a day or two of accelerated learning before the Kali release. Yeah, this will actually benefit the older players more than the newer players. 4. On Kali release date, patch everyone that average (#2), applied only towards a skill that's actively being trained. Once that skill reaches 5 or the points run out, that's it. On a side note, when I was in Kali last night, I noticed that the advanced learning books only require level 4 learning skills. Anyone know if THAT is going to be implemented in the game? I mean, I'm at the optimal position to benefit from that (learning skills at 4) and I am not really liking that either. I'm hoping that's just done to let people learn new skills faster. On the flip side, I do like the new character creation screens. Very nice!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.22 19:06:00 - [134] Edited by: Aramendel on 22/11/2006 19:13:01 Originally by: Nezz Jaran when I was in Kali last night, I noticed that the advanced learning books only require level 4 learning skills. Confirmed. Great improvement IMO - and I "wasted" 3-4 months ago ~ 1mil SPs into the lvl 5 basic learning skills. And, no, you can cratch it being a temporary change to help players learning skills faster on test. If they need people to have certain skills (like the heavy assault missiles ones) they GIVE them to them.
VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.22 21:06:00 - [135] Edited by: VeniVici on 22/11/2006 21:12:11 Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 22/11/2006 19:13:01 Originally by: Nezz Jaran when I was in Kali last night, I noticed that the advanced learning books only require level 4 learning skills. Confirmed. Great improvement IMO - and I "wasted" 3-4 months ago ~ 1mil SPs into the lvl 5 basic learning skills. And, no, you can cratch it being a temporary change to help players learning skills faster on test. If they need people to have certain skills (like the heavy assault missiles ones) they GIVE them to them. What's sad is that this change compounded with the 800k, compounded with the fact that Kali builds often start with one learning skill at level 4 makes the shaft that much worse, especially for anyone who took the time to get a level 5 learning skill. If you can't see why let me paint a picture. The only reason to learn a level 5 learning skill in RMR is to get access to advanced learning skills. That means you're not just spending 4-5 days for 1 point of an attribute, but rather you are spending 7-9 days for 5 points of an attribute (advanced learning IV). Each point you spend in learning is a point that could have been spent elsewhere, but since you increase learning time you look to break even at some point. From what I've seen, each point in a primary attribute saves you about 3% of your training time, while each point in a secondary attribute saves you 2%. Now assuming 1/5th of your training time will have the attribute as primary and another 1/5th will have it as a secondary. That means the total time to break even can be calculated: RMR: Cost to gain 5 attribute points = 8 days Old training rate = 1 (breaking it down by proportions) New training rate = 3/5 + (1/5)(1-0.03)^5 + (1/5)(1-0.02)^5 = 0.6 + 0.17175 + 0.18078 = 0.95253 So by spending 8 days you have saved 4.747% of your total training time. So to make up for this you need to make back 8 days of your time with this savings (i.e. 8 days = 4.747%). That means you need to train: 8 * 1/0.04747 = 168.5 days to make up the difference (i.e. 5.5 months). If you do all of your attributes to level 4 advanced, this number starts going down. There are a lot of other considerations to make as well, but the number serves as a baseline. Now let us examine Kali: Cost to gain 4 attribute points = 3.5 days Old training rate = 1 New training rate = 3/5 + (1/5)(1-0.03)^4 + (1/5)(1-0.02)^4 = 0.6 + 0.17706 + 0.18447 = 0.96153 So 3.5days for 3.847% improved training speed Now here's the kicker. RMR spent 4.5 more days training for 0.96153 - 0.95253 = 0.009 = 0.9% more training time. Lets examine that: 4.5 * 1 / 0.009 = 500 days to break even on that cost when comparingto RMR. You can compare this to Kali who will be able to get the same benefit in less time due to having advanced skills learned already 4.0 * 1 / 0.009 = 444.4 days...hmm...a 55.6 days better. That's more than 10% sooner to break even. Needless to say that's just for 1 attribute. So frankly, yes I'm even more frustrated because I have been doing the learning route, which means that despite my earlier assumption that Kali and RMR will learn at the same rate after 44 days was false. This difference is more along the lines of 38 days. In addition this difference in time also means my break even point is pushed back relatively about 100 days compared to a Kali build...that means I need to play roughly 3 months longer than a Kali player just to break even This change compounded with this new information regarding learning skills essentially makes my character absolutely pointless. This means that the only things I have to show for 2 months of playing are: 40 mil in sellable assets 1 Caracal 1 Osprey 2 Bestowers 1 Cormorant 3 Condors 1 Merlin 1 Kestrel Plus my meager game experience that I didn't even need to pay for, and the modicum of fun I had grinding out level 1 and 2 missions. So please if you feel all this was worth the 2 months, would you pay 700 mil isk for my character
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2006.11.22 21:37:00 - [136] Originally by: Mentor Grange All true. The choice I am making at the moment is to oppose an injustice I perceive to be avoidable. Once the injustice is in the world I will approach it as I always do--in a way designed to ensure I am among the parties advantaged by it. Mentor Ok, I have 60M sp. I've played neraly 3.5 years longer than you. But you know what? I'm ALSO getting cheated for 800k sp. Just like you and EVERYBODY else in this game. We ALL started without this. We are in the EXACT same situation as you! Now just be course you will live to see the new n00bs be better that you dont mean that the rest of us didnt have the same injustice done to us. But know what? WE DON'T CARE! This is eve. It's harsh. It REALLY is. As CCP evils go, this is a minor one. You will see worse thatn this if you stay around. Trust me. Of course the smartest thing you could do, if you really think the new n00b chars are uber to your char, is just make a NEW char under Kali and tranfer all assets to it. Problem SOLVED! Yay! PS. Sorry if I said something someone else have said too. Got sick of this thread around page two. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Max Grief Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.11.22 21:39:00 - [137] Edited by: Max Grief on 22/11/2006 21:40:48 Ok Veni, This has been stated adnosium, You can either quit, re-roll your char, or keep on going. None of this is rocket science, what they are doing is helping new players into the game, which is a good thing. The only reason you are having a problem is cause you joined at a time where your SP is going to be roughly equivilant to a kali alt. So to sum it up. People out there will have more SP than you. People out there will have less SP than you. Eve isn't fair. Welcome to Eve, get used to it.
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:17:00 - [138] Edited by: Protunia on 22/11/2006 22:32:55 Lets Examine this.... (You Pay + Subscription)(Time^Fun)/(SP gainedExperience)+(Items*ISK) = What you had coming Knowing you paid to play??! Priceless!!! My Character Stats
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:37:00 - [139] Seems to me like its more a case of you doing the wrong things in EVE and perhaps playing the wrong race too, more than anything to do with the Kali char creation. (Personal opinion - I find Caldari and agent missions boring.) If you're using it as an excuse to quit then by all means.. I had opened up 2 accounts weeks before this was announced. Skill switches for 3 accounts are a pain in the arse and sure, I still feel a little sore about it. I'll simply reopen and reroll my characters once Kali hits and thats that.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2006.11.22 23:36:00 - [140] Originally by: VeniVici No I pay CCP to play a game, one of whose primary goals is the gain of SP. Again, if you disagree please stop training for 22 days and tell me you're happy about it. You will won't you? Praising all the isk and standing gains you're making? Let me know how it goes I'm very interested...heck you can even do it just until Kali is released and show us that your apathy on this change is well founded. And please if the argument is flawed, point out the falacies, show some facts, not just this ignorant assertion that there is no problem. At least present an argument, otherwise your point is nothing more than idle baseless commentary. It is flawed, in that you assume that its only you and other new players this affects. Its us all. We all didn't get those extra sp at creation. The only difference here is that we don't complain about it. You remind of the people that complains about not knowing that thier T1 cargo BPO would become a T2 BPO later, and thus they sold it for less profit than they would have done later on, had CCP told them they would eventually make then into T2 BPO's. Its just not how eve works. you take your chances. Hell, all those people with max missile skills cried for a long time when they suddenly got all nerfed and had to train a million new skills to be just remotely as good ast hey were before. In short CCP has done much "worse" things thatn this. At keast you dont get set back on your char. You just don't get the bonus that some others get. Be happy for them, or even join them. Sorry but your complaint really dont hold up here, however well you try to sell it. And this one is not going to hurt CCP any more than all the other nerfs and tweaks they have done, which is: Not much. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf

VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.23 00:02:00 - [141] Originally by: Qual [ Of course the smartest thing you could do, if you really think the new n00b chars are uber to your char, is just make a NEW char under Kali and tranfer all assets to it. Problem SOLVED! Yay! PS. Sorry if I said something someone else have said too. Got sick of this thread around page two. A shame you don't want to read the thread because if you did you would realize that your great idea isn't even feasible. Rerolling means I lose all but the sellable assets I have, to keep going means that I am literally no better than a kali new player. Anyways, since it seems there continue to be people who simply don't care about the cost (3 years playing...and you don't care whether 29 days of training is nullified by CCP... I'd never think that would be possible. What if CCP took away 2.5 years of your SP? would you care then?). I have gone and crunched numbers that include both the catchup gap between Kali and RMR, as well as the loss incurred for anyone who has trained the basic learning skills to level 5: 42 days after kali is released, the RMR character will be 92 days old. At this point the Kali character will have all skills the RMR did at release plus their bonus 800k. RMR will have had to spend 15 days learning the skills given to the Kali build. Also the RMR build would have trained Basic Level 5 learning skills to level V in 21.8 days, for a savings of 7.7 days every 4 months. Since Kali will not need to train these Level 5 skills they will miss out on this 7.7 day savings every 4 months. 92 (RMR total age) -21.8 (the learning skills that Kali doesn't need to train) +7.7 (4 month bonus in savings to RMR for training level V skills) -15 (days needed for RMR to catch up to Kali) ===== 62.9 (RMR effective age) That means RMR will have spent 92 - 62.9 = 29.1 days training skills for no purpose. This loss affects all characters who have the basic learning skills to level 5 no matter what their age. Understandably 3 year old players won't care because no matter what CCP does they'll still be subscribers so this issue really doesn't affect you. Yes the options are: a) Reroll at kali meaning you lose 20.9 days (plus however much/less old you are than the OP [50 days old at kali release]) of training and any implants and standing that you have b) Keep going, accepting that you've spent 29.1 days training skills that CCP has kindly eliminated the need for c) Leave, thumb your nose at CCP for not being open with their changes, or for ensuring their changes don't adversly affect existing users or especially new adopters Take you pick. They all look like very promising choices..no?
Ophrial	Posted - 2006.11.23 00:49:00 - [142] The way i see it...you have the ability to get lots of isk built up between now and the Kali release. Since you will be no where near the 900k sp you can make a new character and give it the skills that you want. Then trade that character the goods and isk that you have collected. Problem solved. A beefed up character, lots if isk and goods saved up all for the low low price of playing before Kali comes out.
VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.23 01:34:00 - [143] Originally by: Ophrial The way i see it...you have the ability to get lots of isk built up between now and the Kali release. Since you will be no where near the 900k sp you can make a new character and give it the skills that you want. Then trade that character the goods and isk that you have collected. Problem solved. A beefed up character, lots if isk and goods saved up all for the low low price of playing before Kali comes out. For people on trial accounts sure this works. For people who have paid for a month and are either a month or less old, then yes they paid $15 for the isk and standing they have accumulated, and a reroll is probably going to work. Anyone older than that tho is stuck in the cold, rerolling costing them as much as sticking with their current character up until they get over around 3 months old. So yes, the main people drastically affected are people who joined in the last 1-3 months. Older players are also affected but the proportion of their time playing vs. the training time lost is much smaller.
Garunt Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar	Posted - 2006.11.23 09:40:00 - [144] How about looking at it this way instead - Did you have fun and get your $20.00 a month worth of playtime.... if so I don't see a problem other than jealousy. New players getting a bit of boost to make them a bit more useful overall sounds like a great plan to me - More research bots ftw! _________________________________ If you aren't prepared to lose it - don't fly it.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2006.11.23 09:50:00 - [145] Originally by: VeniVici (3 years playing...and you don't care whether 29 days of training is nullified by CCP... I'd never think that would be possible. What if CCP took away 2.5 years of your SP? would you care then?) Let me very carefully express my answert to that: If they took away 2.5 years of training from me only: Angry! If they took away 2.5 years from everyone: Grumpy but not angry. If they gave 2.5 extra to someone else but not me: Slightly miffed but not grumpy and not in the slightest way angry. Its thier gain, not my loss. All this nonsense about relative loss I don't give credit. They don't take anything from you. THey just give extra stuff to others. Funny thing is here is that you want both. You want to be starting earlier and have your implants, bought skill & earned standings, and the extra sp's they will gain. You can't. You have to choose. I'll agree that your choice is harder than it is for me, but I wont agree that you have lost anything. You just haven't gained the bonus they will gain. Tough luck. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Sohn	Posted - 2006.11.23 11:07:00 - [146] First... Cant Take Away something you dont have. Second... The day and year I was born only some BS things happened, but years later something did, Guess what, I dont get credit or such for that because I was born before. There are alot of us that have been around for years in EVE and seen it all, all the people wanting more than they have, and the rest sitting back laughing at all of it shruging it off because the ONLY thing we carried out of it from the begining was our Characters....hmmm wait this means that subject will be brought out .....again....
VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.23 20:46:00 - [147] Originally by: Qual If they took away 2.5 years of training from me only: Angry! If they took away 2.5 years from everyone: Grumpy but not angry. If they gave 2.5 extra to someone else but not me: Slightly miffed but not grumpy and not in the slightest way angry. Its thier gain, not my loss. Then you are the most unselfish gamer in the world. Congratulations. Of course I'm still dubious of your sincerity, but I will have to take your word on it that all you'd be is slightly miffed. In either case we have developer confirmation of the 800k SP and a reiteration that Nov 28th is still the planned release date. In order to make an informed decision, I will be setting a nice 20+ day skill to train, anchoring all of my assets in some belt in some secure cans, and waiting to see the full effect of Kali on character progression. Looks like no matter who gets affected this is going through, and that's life. Good luck to all those rerolling and all those unable to.
IteVherokioEst	Posted - 2006.11.23 23:06:00 - [148] Yes I agree with Bareck Strongarm: Quote: The people whining over this increase in skill points remind me of children who have been told they must halve a candy bar. One of the children starts to cry and kick his feet and whine that his portion of the candybar is slightly smaller. It's just plain silly and childish. It is childish of CCP to whine about the giving of a larger piece of candy to the babies of EVE. CCP should just stop compaining about their market share and get on with business. And as Qual said: Quote: It is flawed, in that you assume that its only you and other new players this affects. Its us all. We all didn't get those extra sp at creation. The only difference here is that we don't complain about it. So CCP stop compaining about your status in life and "get over it." For me, I go pirate....SWG. (Oh wait, something here isn't quite right...)
James Omerand HUG Project	Posted - 2006.11.24 01:02:00 - [149] lets make tier 3 learning skills :) and realy let us gain skills fast.. yeh,,, they let the chinees on there surver train fast they should let us.... not.... has 3x characters with lvl 5 advanced learning skills and full sets of +3 implants :) so IF the above were to happen id emediatly skill up the tier three aswell Selling Battleships in the Lonetreck, Forge, and Citadel Regions.
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2006.11.24 01:12:00 - [150] I have to admit I don't like this idea mainly because it signals EvE's inevitable slide towards becoming World of EvE quest in the search for new subs, the irony being that the servers and the game code(if you can call the current mess we have code) cannot cope with the current amount of players let alone more. Another reason is all the macroers and farmers must be **ing theselves laughing at this change. Also I agree with the op and fell sorry for any poor ***** who has paid to be a month behind the curve especially those suckers who join in the nex few days. On the plus side if this goes through I will be one of the hundreds of players who rolls a insta pirate alt. In fact I predict a huge increase in hisec suicide gankings and lowe sec piracy. I could go on but it's not worth the energy



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