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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:43:18 -
[511] - Quote
CCP give me back my old icons,plenty of feedback has been brought to you that the current set of icons weren't any good.
-Certains objects didn't need a new icons to start with. -Form and shapes differ too much in the same category of ship size or usage. -Drones do not need an individual icons for each one of them but just a different size (L,M,HV) -Most of the icon set are too complex and counterintuitive.
CCP Surge has obviously ignored feedback and forced his opinion on the community ,despise several warnings that his icons set were disruptive and confusing.We told him repeatedly to do not bring them on TQ ,now deal with unsatisfied customers and the huge threadnaught to come.
Best regards |
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
9
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:43:45 -
[512] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote:OVERVIEW ICON FEEDBACK:
The immediate impression (not meant as "destructive" but honestly what went through my mind at first use):
Is it a stargate or a freighter? Wait, stargate is filled, or is that an oblonged planet symbol glitch?
...
Any change in the icons at all would cause the need of having to get used to the changes, this fact does not determine if the new icons are good or bad as even the best icons possible would have to undergo the same learning process from the players.
Regardless of they being good or bad, the icons did need change. Many icons were the same for multiple classes of ships, and they didn't have any connection with ship classes, in fact they had no creativity at all -- they were stupid squares.
Your feeling torwards changes is understandable, as you can see most players are having the same, but I'm sure you will get over it soon.
I personally didn't like some icons, like the Rookie Ship icon being so small, and the fact its smaller than the Drone's, but whatever.
What I know for a fact is that I've never seen a change that every single player agrees to be positive. Even if they made the game free there would be people complaining, which is precisely why its so hard to get CCP to hear anyone, because people just complain out of impulse and therefore their demands cannot be taken seriously.
So instead of throwing poop at things on first sight, lets be good reviewers and keep an open mind, give changes a chance, just to see how it works, and after some experience if we still agree its that bad, then I'm sure CCP will make the necessary adjusts.
Just as everyone else I too will have to get used to the changes, but I'm sure my IQ allows me to overcome this "challenge". That aside, I think the fact we now have distinct icons for each ship class, rats includeded, is pretty good news by itself.
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Sell Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:44:09 -
[513] - Quote
I appreciate the difficulty of designing new icons, but my god.. they're hideous.. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
46
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:46:13 -
[514] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I prefer to use the 90% setting since it gives more 'space' for various windows, scanning windows, chat tab box, etc. I don't do this due to small monitor size, I'm using a 32 inch 1080p flatpanel T.V. via it's HDMI port. When I'm in places I shouldn't be, solo, eating space rocks to reprocess and build from, I need all the space I can beg borrow and steal for D-Scan, Cargo Hold, Probe Scan, Places Tab to pop warp and leave if need be, and to just have a better view around my ship for paranoia checking. As I cannot scale many of those windows before they're unusable, it's 90% and text set to 11 as a compromise.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
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slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:49:05 -
[515] - Quote
hurrah!! I've just spend few minute today on EVE, my wife is so grateful for the big bug cake called EVE now... having major trouble with this game and patch... (oh, a new button!!! I'm going to resubscribe!!! gogogo! nahhh) too many freeze, problem etc....see ya in winter!!! (or not)
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Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence Mean Coalition
97
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:57:28 -
[516] - Quote
Captain Pada wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/
These icons were much better.
exactly... logged in and was asking myself hm ? didnt they look diffrent in presentation / blog ??
but hell yeah PacMan Icons \o/ lets downgrade to EvE for Dummies hooray
its not about learning new stuff or get used to it...its still the main question: DOES IT IMPROVE THE GAME ?
and all the talk bout blahblah EvE Brand typical look ... blah .. then why redesign every ship and make it look like anykind of SciFi Game/Movie ?
btw dont forget to hire more US Personal ...will help, sure
every Patch the Motivation to continue playing goes down and down and ....
"need to get used to" pfft no just need to stop paying |
Pryce Caesar
Evil Young Flesh
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:58:33 -
[517] - Quote
A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
381
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:00:21 -
[518] - Quote
Koba Kyogen wrote:Strip out the new icons. Wasn't broken, didn't need fixing.
Give us the option to at least disable them.
I blame Iceland. All of it.
And people were worried about the possibility of a strike - as I see it, the strike would have prevented them from breaking things for at least a little while
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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General Xenophon
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:02:48 -
[519] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Carnyx has been successfully deployed on June 2 during an extended downtime. Carnyx brings many new features to EVE Online, including fully revamped icons in space and in the overview, the first set of sovereignty changes, fantastic new graphic shaders, module rebalances, the Caldari Tech-3 destroyer "Jackdaw" and more. You can check out details of all these features on the new Updates webpage, here. The full details of all changes and improvements are available in the patch notes. For general discussion and feedback regarding Carnyx, please use this thread.Please report issues with the release on the PC in the Carnyx issues thread. For Mac users, there is, as always, a thread on the Macintosh forums for discussion of this release here.
Models for ships up close look great! Thanks!
What is with the Atari space invaders / Packman shapes for ships on the screen? Was there something wrong with what they were before? Is there an option to turn this back to the way it was? Its cool to see ship-type changed according to shapes, but not totally sold on this. |
eldeago
TalCorp Enterprises Care Factor
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:10:11 -
[520] - Quote
The reason I have enjoyed this game so much, was the realism of the graphics. Now this is like a cartoon game for children. The Icons totally suck. The targets you have painted on the stations, removes any reality of the game the rats are simply gay! Congrats on again totally screwing your player base! And yes I know I can quit anytime, and if I have to play a child's game I probably will. Good luck. |
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
383
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:11:11 -
[521] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading! There we have the "have patience, it takes a while" argument again. It was the same with the new UI icons. And guess what, I actually dislike them as much as on the day you introduced them. Sometimes I get the feeling that you tend to forget that most of us are adults and that some of us are quite capable to percieve problematic design decisions when they see them. Updating or modernizing the icons is perfectly ok in itself. Unfortunately your approach is fundamentally flawed in at least two ways. You seem to believe that a higher granularity improves the "at-a-glance awareness" and provides more information per se, so you conceived dozens of new icons. However, it seems you are oblivious to the fact, that information overload is a limiting factor in that regard. The threshold to information overload is affected by several factors, stress level and individual capability among them. The individual capability in turn is affected by various factors, too. With regard to EVE I'd include sleep and session time as variables. Basically this means, that you should focus on displaying important information while omitting less important information or at least make it optional. Too many of your icons give completely irrelevant information. If I had a say in this, I would axe several of the icons: Combat -1 (rookie ships are frigates), Industrial: - 3 (mining frigates are frigates and that leaves us with large and medium industrials), Drones: - 5 (1 icon for fighters/bombers, 1 icon for combat drones, 1 icon for non-combat drones). And that's conservative, you could remove far more icons and still have a working system. In addition your icons are seemingly designed with an artistic idea in mind (and are not even looking that good), partially forgetting that the icons are supposed to give tactical information in (space) combat situations. In combination with overview colors it's no longer easy to properly discern most of the icons. I'd suggest to look at military tactical icons for guidance. With regard to the general design I would suggest to replace the frigate triangle with an acute-angled triangle as in the capital letter "A" to give it a more dynamic, spaceship like look. For cruisers you could use a similar icon, a bit wider, perhaps with a flat top. At least redesign the cruiser icons so they don't look like monopoly houses anymore. Since I don't expect or believe that you will do anything to improve the mess you created with the news icons, it would be nice to make it optional to use them. Please give us the option to switch back to the old icons and let the players decide whether they want your new icons or not. P.S.: Btw, the link is broken.
This ^^^^ The failure with the icons is the same failure that is going on with the map - the idea that it has to be gee whiz neato to be any good. In reality for both the icons and map simplicity is more important then anything else. You should be able to look at the icons and the map and be able to tell from them at a glance what you need. However, as it is right now, simplicity is being sacrificed to make it look neat, resulting in the map and icons being so overly complex as to be useless. In my opinion the map is unfixable and should just be scraped. As for the icon - most of them need to be consolidated. All that is really needed is icons representing ships by size, capital, large, medium and small - and thats it. We dont need special icons for rookie ships or mining frigates. Hell the differences are so minimal and the icons so small as to make them nonsensical anyways.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Darkon Kagemamoru
Shattered Mists
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:15:59 -
[522] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours.
Intentional change.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=425475&find=unread&_ga=1.179079271.2142787165.1428906158 |
Zan- nah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:16:26 -
[523] - Quote
eldeago wrote:The reason I have enjoyed this game so much, was the realism of the graphics. Now this is like a cartoon game for children. The Icons totally suck. The targets you have painted on the stations, removes any reality of the game the rats are simply gay! Congrats on again totally screwing your player base! And yes I know I can quit anytime, and if I have to play a child's game I probably will. Good luck.
Can I have your stuff
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Total Newbie
Patriotic Tendencies Executive Outcomes
90
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:17:11 -
[524] - Quote
The saddest thing in all of this?
WE are the customer.
If any business treated customers with the disdain CCP does theirs, theyd be out of business..........
Am I being Ironic? |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
71
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:18:59 -
[525] - Quote
New icons look completely ********. Can't believe you guys went live with them after they have been proven to be crap on singularity (performance and coherent perception wise). Not like my feedback makes much of a difference, everyone knows that if u want something done u go on reddit.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Orion Audene
Royale Ventures Ltd.
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:20:23 -
[526] - Quote
I really miss the old Overview icons! The new icons look goofy & childish. Also, the game seems a bit more glitchy and noticeably lags during station undocking. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
730
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:21:39 -
[527] - Quote
ICONS.
Bottom line, after 30 pages of comments:
Turn that **** off, go back to old icons, assign a different artist team, and start again. |
loquacious7
Pawnstars INC The Obsidian Front
11
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:22:36 -
[528] - Quote
I think the game looks terrible with the icons on. *forgot to add constructive criticism other than BAD ICON at first. But OMG this is worse than captains quarters. :) |
Aiko Shinjiro
Mean Corp Mean Coalition
2
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:23:46 -
[529] - Quote
The only good thing bout the Icons and the Playstyle of beeing a lowsec Pirate: Just Ignore them -if the Icon is diffrent then that of station or gate: shoot it |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4947
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:24:22 -
[530] - Quote
Too many icons, that are too detailed for rapid recognition, and they render poorly at different resolutions and UI scalings.
As an exercise on visual recognition (I'm not recommending these as icons):
* Hollow triangle. * Hollow triangle with a single horizontal bar underneath. * Hollow triangle with a single dot above it.
* Filled triangle. * Filled triangle with a single horizontal bar underneath. * Filled triangle with a single dot above it.
Notice that none of the three elements can be mistaken for the other, even when rendered poorly.
The simple geometric shapes can also be easily described in text. |
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General Xenophon
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:34:15 -
[531] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:New icons look completely ********. Can't believe you guys went live with them after they have been proven to be crap on singularity (performance and coherent perception wise). Not like my feedback makes much of a difference, everyone knows that if u want something done u go on reddit.
BUT WAIT! People told me CCP listens if people PREVIEW the patch notes and give feedback BEFORE it comes out! OWAIT |
Pryce Caesar
Evil Young Flesh
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:48:45 -
[532] - Quote
Best place to sell them? Sounds like those who collected 50mm armour plates in missions can now make a profit off them.
P.S. In regards to the icon changes, I do not particularly care about it because I've only been playing for about a month, so I'm not particularly attached to the old system.
P.S II: So I take it the Hecate will be released in July? |
Circumstantial Evidence
183
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:49:00 -
[533] - Quote
Using Chribba's excellent forum research tool, I broke down the top 20 posters, on the icon topic. The data was snapped roughly an hour ago.
Conclusions: more people making posts here, expressed a negative opinion. Those who wrote a negative opinion, wrote more often. I was surprised that the total number of additional posts (votes?) by writing more of the same, didn't have a larger effect on the overall percentages, when just looking at post count.
Out of 20 unique characters:
12 - "don't like" (60%) 1 - "will get used to" ( 5%) 4 - "like" (20%) 3 - "no comment" (15%)
Out of 144 posts: Note: if a poster referred to icons in the majority of their posts, I counted all their posts as about icons, even if one was about another topic.
96 - don't like new icons (66.7%) 7 - I'll get used to them ( 4.9%) 24 - like new icons (16.7%) 17 - no posts about icons (11.8%)
Codes added in front, below:
0 - don't like new icons 1 - I'll get used to them 2 - like new icons 3 - no posts about icons Data used:
0 - epicurus ataraxia 12 (2,4%) 0 - Steijn 12 (2,4%) 0 - Joia Crenca 11 (2,2%) 0 - Natya Mebelle 10 (2,0%) 0 - Panterata 10 (2,0%) 1 - Jenn aSide 7 (1,4%) 2 - Ralph King-Griffin 7 (1,4%) 0 - Rivr Luzade 7 (1,4%) 0 - Sissy Fuzz 7 (1,4%) 2 - Trajan Unknown 7 (1,4%) 3 - Dominous Nolen 6 (1,2%) 0 - Koba Kyogen 6 (1,2%) 3 - Nemesis DCC 6 (1,2%) 0 - Spc One 6 (1,2%) 2 - Dradis Aulmais 5 (1,0%) 2 - Faruzen en Divalone 5 (1,0%) 0 - Lil' Brudder Too 5 (1,0%) 0 - Natascha Kerenski 5 (1,0%) 3 - Sexual White Chocolate 5 (1,0%) 0 - Tyr Dolorem 5 (1,0%) |
Andris Arickson
Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now.
5
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:54:02 -
[534] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.
< snip >
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
Eve is a very "busy" game, often needing a lot of different sized and shaped windows on the screen at any one time, local, 1-2 extra chat windows, D-Scan, Overview column, intel channel/s, probe scan (anom) window, drones, etc.
This means that on my laptop I can't easily play at anything other than 90% to fit in everything I need.
On my 24" screen I can fit everything in and read it but sometimes I need windows to be smaller than the minimum at 100% scaling in order to fit in what I need.
Assuming I were to transition to a 4K 30" screen I would likely easily be able to fit everything and more on my screen due to the real estate and resolution gains.
If there were more UI options around the minimum size of windows and or font sizes then perhaps I could scale all the windows I need without the use of 90% scaling, thus bypassing the problem.
Unlike many of the other instant UI experts here on the forums I will give the new icons a try and form an opinion after a little more experience than a snap judgement.
The new shaders are very nice indeed. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
237
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:56:29 -
[535] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes.
T1 entosis links are 40M each currently, those are pretty expensive rookie ships. Have you had fun popping them? |
W33b3l
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
14
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:06:59 -
[536] - Quote
OK now that Ive had some time to play with it.
The first priority needs to be fixing the 90% scaling issue before anything else. I have to disable scaling to even remotely tell what the icons are and that is a SEVERE issue for me. Ide rather the new icons where not released with this issue but since they where, please work on fixing this first so we can all at least get used to them as fast as possible.
I havnt came across a Cap ship like a carrier yet, curious what those icons look like, but from what I have seen, ship wise, I adapted to the new icons fairly quickly sitting outside a trade hub station watching things fly by. Im actually fairly fond of the new ship icons (but only the ship icons) although again.. please fix the scaling.
Its is very hard to tell the difference between an NPC and Player ship by the icons alone. I can see that the NPC icons are shaded but I have to look really close to tell. The shading needs to be much more prominent.
Wrecks are also confusing. Flipping the icon for the wreck is a nice touch but having the diamond overlay on the top (while easy to see) obscures the ships icon too much and using the old method of just shading in the wreck icon would be MUCH more preferred.
The icons for all the different types of drones really needs to be removed. We all know the drone names by heart and this level of variety on the overview Is just too much to take in and process at once. It would be much better to either use the old icons, or settle for something more simple that just shows the size of the drone instead. aka small, medium, large, and possibly sentry. All the other types of drones say what they do in the name anyway. This is a very common complaint.
The new icons for the different types of asteroids is a nice touch however the triangle for the belt was better then the 3 dots (another common complaint).
However besides that, most of the other icons in space (except for the sun and planets in system) are just too confusing, aka all the complaints about POS mods and such. The icons for mobile depots look like they should be ships also. If you could revert the large amount of icons for all the deployable structures (including gate guns and billboards) back to what they where and fix the few issues with the rest it would help out a lot while keeping the player base reasonably happy and still implementing the reasons for the changes in the first place.
I like where you're going with a lot of the new icons, you just WAY over did it to the point of making things too confusing. Which seems to be a common theme in this thread.
Thank you. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
263
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:18:34 -
[537] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Spc One wrote:Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes. T1 entosis links are 40M each currently, those are pretty expensive rookie ships. Have you had fun popping them? Nah i ignored them, let them have fun with services. Guy was on station taking services.
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Xert Trassien
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:19:38 -
[538] - Quote
Carnyx successfully deployed ?? you got to be shitting us right ?? The new overview brackets are just ... well they just stupid. CCP have you sacked all the old staff and employed a bunch of knitwits or monkeys even ??? Hell its like looking at space invaders 20yrs ago
Fail is FAIL |
Kenzen Han Taro
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:20:31 -
[539] - Quote
Good job CCP, looks awesome.
Note : drifter wh's look dangerous |
Xert Trassien
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:26:42 -
[540] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
THE ISSUES ARE WITH THE NEW ICONS. They suck a$$ dont you guys get it ????
God help us all
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