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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:45:39 -
[1] - Quote
Small railguns cost 31 mil each, so that'd be 93 mil to fit a merlin. I can't imagine losing that much money on a ship that costs 400k. Same with co-processor.
Is this supposed to be so expensive? Does anyone ever actually use these modules for anything? Maybe I could make money getting tags and selling them, but if no one uses the weapons, then there's no market for the tags? |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
582
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:50:53 -
[2] - Quote
There is market info tools to check and see what sells.
As far as does anyone use them yes they get used. Some faction mods are more popular than others.
If you are coming to Eve from WoW you need to get over the best in slot concept it has no place here and will make your eve life miserable if you can't get past it. Eve is frequently about doing more with less. |
Paranoid Loyd
5540
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:55:27 -
[3] - Quote
People use them, but only people that don't know what they are doing and it's usually large turrets on battleships. But yeah, you will find there are a lot of mods in this game that don't make any sense to use. There are other uses for them like scamming and/or manipulating markets.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
582
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:07:36 -
[4] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:People use them, but only people that don't know what they are doing and it's usually large turrets on battleships. But yeah, you will find there are a lot of mods in this game that don't make any sense to use. There are other uses for them like scamming and/or manipulating markets. I've seen some burner missions where faction small turrets would make a lot of sense but yes I agree with you that they don't see as much use as faction damage mods. |
SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 01:34:22 -
[5] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:There is market info tools to check and see what sells.
As far as does anyone use them yes they get used. Some faction mods are more popular than others.
If you are coming to Eve from WoW you need to get over the best in slot concept it has no place here and will make your eve life miserable if you can't get past it. Eve is frequently about doing more with less.
If no one uses small hybrid navy turrets, they are de facto useless. So why bother them being in at all, when CCP has a hard-on for removing a bunch of meta items from all classes to make the game "simpler"? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1155
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:06:48 -
[6] - Quote
in general t2 turrets are better, as they do more damage and allow for t2 ammo which can do even more damage. Faction is generally a newb item, although with the revamp to turret skills I would guess they get used even less.
with launchers faction offers a higher rate of fire, but t2 has t2 ammo and for the most part I'd rather have access to t2 ammo than slightly higher rof and capacity.
navy co-procs are useful as they usually go on link boats. Warfare links require a lot of CPU and most people try to cram as many one one ship as possible. Usually these ships sit somewhere where they are relatively safe, so paying a lot for fittings isn't usually too much of a worry.
imo the frigate level weapons are stupidly over priced in the LP stores, and have very few uses. the medium ones kinda go either way, say CN HML are a bit expensive for pvp, but for a blinged out pve tengu they seem cheap. large are still a bit over priced, but on a marauder or something like that they don't get too expensive as you only need 4.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Paranoid Loyd
5544
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:08:16 -
[7] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:There is market info tools to check and see what sells.
As far as does anyone use them yes they get used. Some faction mods are more popular than others.
If you are coming to Eve from WoW you need to get over the best in slot concept it has no place here and will make your eve life miserable if you can't get past it. Eve is frequently about doing more with less. If no one uses small hybrid navy turrets, they are de facto useless. So why bother them being in at all, when CCP has a hard-on for removing a bunch of meta items from all classes to make the game "simpler"? The price is driven by their components, the price of said components can fluctuate somewhat wildly as demand for those components are also driven by the "useful" items that use the same components. Fixing it seems simple on the surface but once you start to see the ripple effect of even small changes the results can be disastrous. While I do agree that it should be addressed it's not as simple as it seems and I disagree with the just scrap them mentality, as I mentioned they do have other uses.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8133
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:22:30 -
[8] - Quote
(reserving for wall of text)
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1157
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:The price is driven by their components, the price of said components can fluctuate somewhat wildly as demand for those components are also driven by the "useful" items that use the same components. Fixing it seems simple on the surface but once you start to see the ripple effect of even small changes the results can be disastrous. While I do agree that it should be addressed it's not as simple as it seems and I disagree with the just scrap them mentality, as I mentioned they do have other uses.
a small gun costs 18,000 LP, and 7,200,000 isk, plus ~300 tags. I don't even care what the tags costs that's too much.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9846
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:33:52 -
[10] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:(reserving for wall of text) Ooooh dis gon be guuuuud
For the op, there's plenty of ships where stupidly expensive faction gear makes a lot of sense, particularly when the ships bonuses and/or capabilities synergies with the module.
For instance the mordus legion,proteus and a couple of others have bonuses to range of warp scramblers/disruptors.
Throwing a faction point/scram on those and you start seeing significant boosts in range, adding a fleet booster in there and the numbers get silly, like really silly.
=]|[=
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:35:07 -
[11] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The price is driven by their components, the price of said components can fluctuate somewhat wildly as demand for those components are also driven by the "useful" items that use the same components. Fixing it seems simple on the surface but once you start to see the ripple effect of even small changes the results can be disastrous. While I do agree that it should be addressed it's not as simple as it seems and I disagree with the just scrap them mentality, as I mentioned they do have other uses. a small gun costs 18,000 LP, and 7,200,000 isk, plus ~300 tags. I don't even care what the tags costs that's too much.
Yeah its like 30 million for the tags, unless you farm them yourself (which means 30 million isk worth of work is imbued in that, but since it takes so many tags, you can make probably 60x as much isk in the same timeframe doing something else). Then its 18,000 x a generous 1000 isk/lp (since lots of stuff gives a lot more isk/lp, like hookbills), and then you have another 18 mil on top. 7.2m + 18m + 30m. 55.2 mil for a single turret means that a merlin requires ~150 mil just to fit faction turrets, which aren't even that good, since T2 is comparable for damage. Thats 150 mil vs 1.5 mil. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1158
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:44:50 -
[12] - Quote
for Caldari Navy frigate gear the price gets pushed up because caldari navy cloaks use the same tags. I don't know that the other races have that problem.
@ChainsawPlankto
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:58:11 -
[13] - Quote
I don't think its relative to the cloak, because the tags themselves have NPC buy orders looking for them at 20-30k a piece, and you need 100-200 of the tags, which means it costs more.
The tags could have no bottom value through NPC orders, and only require 10-20 of them for small hybrid turrets, then the cost isn't related to cloak anymore. The idea that its related to the cloak doesn't make sense when the prices of tags are artificially inflated universally by NPC sell orders, and the number of tags required his high for the modules. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8133
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:11:31 -
[14] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:I don't think its relative to the cloak, because the tags themselves have NPC buy orders looking for them at 20-30k a piece, and you need 100-200 of the tags, which means it costs more. Do note that tags are not the only "cost" that goes into things.
Loyalty Points that you gain from missions have value too.
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:The tags could have no bottom value through NPC orders Please note that unless an order has a 365 day "lifetime" attached to it... it is NOT an NPC buy/sell order.
In fact... I can comfortably say that outside of a few very special cases** the market and economics of EVE are driven almost entirely by players... not by NPCs.
**Exceptions include, but are not limited to... - most skill books - most Blueprint Originals for "Tech 1 stuff" - some Tech 3 components - some Planetary Goods
Outside of this... ores, minerals, ships, finished products, ammo, etc are all sourced from players and player activities.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Paranoid Loyd
5552
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:35:18 -
[15] - Quote
The tags have NPC buy orders.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:36:06 -
[16] - Quote
NPC are the only orders allowed to go above 3 months, and yes, tags are price capped at 30,000 isk for Fed Navy Serg Insig III, by NPC buy orders.
We know LP is required, but he said explicitly that the tags between cloak and small hybrid turrets are shared, so cloaks make small hybrid turrets more expensive, presumably because they compete with each other. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8133
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:12:37 -
[17] - Quote
Huh... the more you know...
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1159
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:52:12 -
[18] - Quote
npc buy orders are something of a floor for tags, that said people will sell them for less at some places for convenience
most tags drop at a ratio that makes no sense next to the LP store requirements, Enemies Abound drops the gallente BS tags in a 14:41 ratio as a result one costs ~2mil with an npc "value" of 500k, where the other trades right at its npc "value" of 750k. I forget the ratio of the minmatar tags, but it is also absurd, and with the introduction of the Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amp the value of the 500k tag is over 6mil, and the 750k tag is well 750k. given that the IN DDA is still the most affordable faction DDA
@ChainsawPlankto
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1458
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Posted - 2015.06.03 10:09:55 -
[19] - Quote
The tags and the LP push the price up
Whilst I run missions, I never get to see tags I don't accept missions against the main factions
After a while you get to the stage where you're like 'looting for 5 mins gets me 15m .... meh. it's not worth it"
So there's a small supply of tags, some have multiple uses If more people looted/ran missions against the main empires there would be a larger supply which in theory would bring the price on tags down which 'should' bring the price of faction items down
you want this to happen go mission and loot like a hoarder with OCD me .. I can't be arsed :D |
SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 14:10:48 -
[20] - Quote
Part of wants to say this is why to invite newbies along and tell them they get to salvage and loot the wrecks... but that's still charity work. There's no benefit to inviting someone to free look like you're some carebear, unless you have an altruistic interest in seeing people get tags to turn into LP rewards. It works, but it has very little reward. The alternative is not telling anyone and having newbies in FW who fly around stabbed looking for missions to "steal" loot from. |
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
731
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Posted - 2015.06.03 14:18:11 -
[21] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:Is this supposed to be so expensive? Does anyone ever actually use these modules for anything?
i use a few on my pvp vargurs...
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 14:47:48 -
[22] - Quote
I couldn't find Lun Wang on battleclinic or zkillboard. |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
731
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Posted - 2015.06.03 14:49:40 -
[23] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:I couldn't find Lun Wang on battleclinic or zkillboard.
Lan Wang is my name, you wont find it because i havent undocked it yet SoonGäó
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 15:14:41 -
[24] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:SpaceClap Uitra wrote:I couldn't find Lun Wang on battleclinic or zkillboard. Lan Wang is my name, you wont find it because i havent undocked it yet SoonGäó
But then doesn't that mean it hasn't been used in PvP? Its like saying there are no millionaires who play eve, then saying Im a millionaire, I just haven't put my plan into making money into action yet. |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
731
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Posted - 2015.06.03 15:18:33 -
[25] - Quote
not at all, ive just not found the right "fleet" to engage with it , its still a pvp vargur because its setup to pvp and not pve, the ship is in my hanger ready to go when the time is right to welp it
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 15:23:33 -
[26] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:not at all, ive just not found the right "fleet" to engage with it , its still a pvp vargur because its setup to pvp and not pve, the ship is in my hanger ready to go when the time is right to welp it
Quote:On a side note, can anyone share a kill within the last year on a frigate that has small hybrid navy turrets attached to it? |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
731
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Posted - 2015.06.03 15:25:31 -
[27] - Quote
my answer was to the "does anyone use these" faction co-processors are used on my vargur to fit the 3x xlasb's which is for my pvp fit
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
731
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Posted - 2015.06.03 15:37:25 -
[28] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:Lan Wang wrote:not at all, ive just not found the right "fleet" to engage with it , its still a pvp vargur because its setup to pvp and not pve, the ship is in my hanger ready to go when the time is right to welp it Quote:On a side note, can anyone share a kill within the last year on a frigate that has small hybrid navy turrets attached to it? if you'll forgive me for saying so, you say you use a few on your pvp vargurs, but since you haven't actually used the ship, how is it any different than saying I use a few deadspace mods because I set one up in EFT?
well i guess it would have saved me a few bil using eft but i intend to use it, being a pretty expensive ship you dont just fly it around lowsec aimlessly as you will just get dropped and then it was all pointless. plenty of people have ships which rarely/never get undocked till the right situation happens, i have alot of ships im yet to use.
as said the ship is in my hanger and gets spinned around and undocked for local dscan candy, its different to eft because i have all the mods fitted to the ship
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1159
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Posted - 2015.06.03 16:02:08 -
[29] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:NPC are the only orders allowed to go above 3 months, and yes, tags are price capped at 30,000 isk for Fed Navy Serg Insig III, by NPC buy orders.
We know LP is required, but he said explicitly that the tags between cloak and small hybrid turrets are shared, so cloaks make small hybrid turrets more expensive, presumably because they compete with each other.
On a side note, can anyone share a kill within the last year on a frigate that has small hybrid navy turrets attached to it?
tags are price floored by the npc buy orders, no cap exists. as for the I and II tag, yes they trade at npc value most of the time, and if the npc order wasn't there the value would probably fall. However the III tag must be in short supply as people pay 133/172k on buy/sell orders in jita.
as for the buy orders on tags, they exist to replace the bounty not earned by killing an opposing factions npc ships. the only isk you make running faction missions is from mission rewards, everything else you have to trade for isk. I feel that faction missions give better loot, and the tags tend to hold a lot of value. many people don't run them because they are afraid to "mess up" their standings. too bad for them it is rather easy to manage standings... the real problem imo is that looting just gets annoying, I completely stopped running faction missions because I don't want to loot them, even with access to marauders and a noctis bpo (funny thing about that, I don't think I've ever built a noctis with that).
@ChainsawPlankto
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 17:16:28 -
[30] - Quote
Well, a price cap isn't normally an 'always high' thing. Price ceilings and floors however... and yes the price is capped at the floor of 30k isk.
To sell for less, you'd have to be feeling altruistic.
If we reach a point where we can say that the price of tags is reasonable, then the number of tags required for the modules might be what is not reasonable. |
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