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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.06.04 01:25:32 -
[1] - Quote
I've seen players call me things like *** recently, and I want to know where the line is between acceptable insults of others from pirates and unacceptable. |
Paranoid Loyd
5574
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Posted - 2015.06.04 01:33:51 -
[2] - Quote
Your attitude is the reason you are being insulted.
Take a step back, understand your place and post accordingly.
Your idea is not without merit, your post about the tags is a nice observation. It's just your attitude.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.06.04 01:38:52 -
[3] - Quote
I really don't think that has anything to do with in game actions, and I don't think there's any attitude that people could have a problem with. What makes you think that? |
Paranoid Loyd
5574
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Posted - 2015.06.04 01:42:58 -
[4] - Quote
I read your posts and I can't imagine you act any differently in game.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9861
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Posted - 2015.06.04 01:44:49 -
[5] - Quote
varies dramatically , the forums are strictly moderated but ingame i have seen some fairly heinous things said (usually by pve players who have had internet space violence dun upon them) but i am admittedly biased somewhat there and will readily destroy weeks or months worth of work at the drop of a hat so its to be expected when playing the predator role, you tend to see the vitriol a lot more in people (particularly when you have them over a barrel so to speak)
that said for the most part its adult but fairly tame by my standards (im Irish though so bear this in mind).
nothing i wouldn't come to expect from working adults on their downtime.
its worth noting there is infact a word filter if you are worried about adult content ,ccp are aware a lot of us have kids and this feature is there for this reason
you can find it here on any of the chat box headers
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
583
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Posted - 2015.06.04 01:51:33 -
[6] - Quote
Did you by chance come to this game from WoW? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8141
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Posted - 2015.06.04 02:09:22 -
[7] - Quote
Technically...
- racism, sexism, pron, gay-bashing and things along those lines are not okay and should be reported.
- excessively foul language (or picture links) is not tolerated and should be reported.
- harassment is not tolerated and should be reported.
Realistically / in practice....
- Outside of obvious examples of racism, sexism, bigotry, etc (that are not part of some role playing thing) there is a "grey line" with what you can get away with saying. NOTE: the "grey line" is not really defined and DEVs/GMs reserve the right to make judgement calls. Use your best judgement and view things from the context of the situation rather than the word/phrasing itself.
- if kept within the context of the game or game-related activities (including role playing and forum posting) people are allowed to hurl "mild" insults and/or take action against you in the game.
- "harassment" is rather narrowly defined by CCP. Because this is a PvP game at its core, another player bothering you is not "harassment" by itself. To even have a "harassment" petition considered... ----- you have to make an effort to avoid those bothering you (moving one or two systems over is not enough... and running into the same gate/station camp repeatedly without taking precautions is considered your fault). ----- you have to show that it is the same people chasing you (randoms bothering you any "corner" you go to should probably make you consider if it is something YOU are doing). ----- the aggressors can't be getting some kind of tangible reward from bothering you (if you keep getting blown up or hunted because you pack your ships full of "shiny things"... you should not expect to left alone).
tldr 1; GM rulings are based more on the "spirit of the rules" rather than the "letter of the rules." tldr 2; you are going to grow some thicker skin. We are all adults here and a lot of us enjoy "stirring the pot" for "funsies"
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.06.04 02:12:28 -
[8] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:I read your posts and I can't imagine you act any differently in game.
Did I offend you somehow? Please let me know in a pm. |
Paranoid Loyd
5579
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Posted - 2015.06.04 02:34:09 -
[9] - Quote
No you don't offend me, but I have a thick skin and understand people don't necessarily come across as they desire when communication is taking place without being face to face so that tone, body language and facial expression can be included in understanding what is being said. I have been around for a little while now and have read a lot of posts, I was simply expressing my opinion about your posting style and how it can easily be misconstrued especially in game.
The game is all about conflict and in game as well as to a certain degree on the forums, people will try to find any reason to take offence at what you say. They will try to drive you to anger so that you do foolish things and they achieve their goal, that may be as simple as making you angry or more complex like relieving you of your assets. The line is outlined in the various documents but is only drawn by the GM that gets the ticket you file when you feel you have been wronged.
So to answer your OP directly the limit is what ever the GM says it is. If you feel the line has been crossed then file a petition and wait for a reply. Remember that anything that is posted on the forums is only opinions, only GMs can tell you concrete answers.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8141
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Posted - 2015.06.04 02:39:49 -
[10] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:I read your posts and I can't imagine you act any differently in game. Did I offend you somehow? Please let me know in a pm. There is a mentality here where we kind of expect nubbins to play for a fair bit of time (a few months to a year) and intimately understand the systems in EVE (both macro and micro) before making suggestions on how to "improve it."
Plus, the big problem that a lot of us veterans see is that many proposed "solutions" or "improvements" affect other systems without considering the ramifications to other playstyles, the markets, and (most importantly) how players WILL abuse it***
*** EVE is notorious for having players that can abuse and game certain systems and mechanics is subtle, but bonkers ways. Some examples:
- when Titans were introduced they were the "kings" of ships. So absurdly expensive that only a few alliances could build them. Fast forward a few years and players have constructed them by the dozens (I think the number is up the mid thousands range)... resulting in a number of nerfs (because players were beginning to use groups of them as "frontline" combat ships that were functionally immune to most subcapital configurations).
- when Faction Warfare was re-vamped... Loyalty Point rewards were given out based on the value of an enemy ship you killed. Some enterprising economic gurus took advantage of this. They used their ISK to buy out an entire market worth of cheap goods... sold half of it at hyper-inflated prices... loaded up the other half onto ships belonging to character in one faction... then blew them up said characters' ships with other characters on the opposing faction... got the massive amount of Loyalty Points... cashed out... and repeated the process. I think they got about 1 or 2 TRILLION isk from doing this... and then started to buy out 30-Day PLEXs (Pilot License Extensions)... sending those prices soaring. CCP had to step in to stabilize the market (almost unheard of) and remove all the ISK from the perpetrators. A few weeks later they reduced the LP gains from killing ships to a piddling amount to prevent further abuse.
I can list a bunch of other ones too if you want.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1163
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Posted - 2015.06.04 06:13:45 -
[11] - Quote
the only thing I've learned in my years of playing eve is that you can't call people idiots, or mistype swear words, as when you are really drunk and type a "v" instead of a "u" you are "evading the filter." Oh and I've heard bad things about RL threats. there was a long running joke of saying (in game) after sentences that involved violence.
these days I just try to be helpful and nice, although I still might try to blow you up (in game).
@ChainsawPlankto
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
584
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Posted - 2015.06.04 11:07:48 -
[12] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the only thing I've learned in my years of playing eve is that you can't call people idiots, or mistype swear words, as when you are really drunk and type a "v" instead of a "u" you are "evading the filter." Oh and I've heard bad things about RL threats. there was a long running joke of saying (in game) after sentences that involved violence.
these days I just try to be helpful and nice, although I still might try to blow you up (in game). I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about nor do I fully recall the situation but I have a vague recollection of an incident that I think happened around the The time of the Jita riots where a player said something at a Dev on the forums that I think was something like "go die in a fire" and action was taken against him because it was interpreted as a RL threat which to me is a joke.
That is like if you said to someone "I hope you get the clap so it burns when you pee". Clearly no one is threatening to hunt you down and force an affected prostitute to infect you with an STD. Nor was anyone threatening to burn anyone. Those are both wishing bad karma on someone. Not that I am saying that wishing ill happenings on someone is a good or acceptable thing but it is clearly distinguished from violent threats and when you intentionally muddy the line between the two then you take away some legitimacy from the more serious one in your attempts to make the less serious one seem more like it.
I think the thing to take away from this is that it depends on who you are and who the claim is against. Bullying is a huge part of this game as is virtual and emotional violence and the actual targeted destruction of real life assets as in when someone spends money to buy plex to pay for stuff in game and then has it stolen from him or destroyed with the intent to cause emotional trauma. So you'd have to have a pretty serious and clear cut case in order to get action unless it was against someone that works at CCP or is on the CSM. |
Dani Dusette
Isogen 5
7145
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Posted - 2015.06.04 11:55:15 -
[13] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Did you by chance come to this game from WoW?
HerrBert > Don't break the 4th wall
GÖÉ deep vengeance +¦-ò -é-+e da-àg-+-éer o-ô deep -ò+¦lence.
ISD Ezwal: "Might I inform you that I am as real as it gets?"
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Memphis Baas
434
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Posted - 2015.06.04 12:41:54 -
[14] - Quote
The rules say we can't be crudely insulting to others, period.
How much we get away with depends on when the forum moderators decide to lock the thread, delete posts, and/or give warnings.
Generally, the community will laugh at, and taunt even more, posts that show rage at something game-related; whether being podded, being scammed (in-game), etc. Because it's a "gritty" game. And also, because we don't care about keeping people playing no matter what; if the game doesn't suit you or isn't fun, we feel you shouldn't play.
If harassment or foul language are happening in-game, directed at you specifically, petition. If it's other people swearing at each other on public channels, turn on the profanity filter. |
SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.04 14:15:02 -
[15] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:The rules say we can't be crudely insulting to others, period.
Got it.
ergherhdfgh wrote:Did you by chance come to this game from WoW?
Then WoW and Eve have the same rules regarding foul language directed at others, if Memphis' understanding is accurate. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9870
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Posted - 2015.06.04 14:58:50 -
[16] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:The rules say we can't be crudely insulting to others, period.
Got it. ergherhdfgh wrote:Did you by chance come to this game from WoW? Then WoW and Eve have the same rules regarding foul language directed at others, if Memphis' understanding is accurate. Read the eula for yourself, there are key differences in how much agency we are afforded regarding "interaction" within the confines of the game.
Much of what would be considered griefing in other games is legitimate gameplay here, so assuming the rules are the same here as in another game could set you up for a rough experience with the community.
Seriously : do not assume the rules are the same way without having verified so yourself
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.04 15:36:13 -
[17] - Quote
Alright, but I was specific towards language used by other players. It would appear that any bad language is a no-no, if Memphis' account is accurate.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=52024
Quote:Hello [CCP Eris here] If it helps, we have a forum filter and bypassing that filter is against the forum rules. The moderators do their best to filter out any profanity or personal attacks. I believe that in game we have a similair policy, you can petition against harrassment.
This all has pretty much seem to have answered my question. |
Paranoid Loyd
5596
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Posted - 2015.06.04 15:55:54 -
[18] - Quote
Might want to check out rule 10 of the forum rules. Oh nevermind, didn't see that was a linked post.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4951
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Posted - 2015.06.04 18:25:48 -
[19] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:I've seen players call me things like *** recently, and I want to know where the line is between acceptable insults of others from pirates and unacceptable. I find the best response is to neither stoop to their level nor below.
Throwing gasoline on a fire is not an effective method of extinguishing a fire.
However, I have had lots of success dousing flames with:
* Agreement. * Compliments. * Humour. * Self-deprecating humour.
"You're right! I was a total moron. I don't know what I was thinking. Must have had my head up my *** to not see that coming. To help me maybe graduate from being a total idiot to perhaps just a partial idiot, do you have any suggestions?" |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
584
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Posted - 2015.06.04 18:33:30 -
[20] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:The rules say we can't be crudely insulting to others, period.
Got it. ergherhdfgh wrote:Did you by chance come to this game from WoW? Then WoW and Eve have the same rules regarding foul language directed at others, if Memphis' understanding is accurate. I came to this game from WoW. WoW is geared for 13 year olds and the GMs do a lot of babysitting in that game. That is not the case here. This is an adult game and you are not assumed to have the right to not be offended or pissed off. I can't say enough that Eve is not WoW especially with regards to this topic. If you want to play this game you will need to have a thick skin.
I agree with Paranoid Loyd on this one in that by your attitude I am going to guess that this game is not for you. If you want a babysitter to protect you form people making comments that offend you then I suggest that you seek out another game because Eve is not for you. |
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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
286
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Posted - 2015.06.04 19:28:14 -
[21] - Quote
I'm just going to post the links to rules and if you feel something someone has said to you violated these rules please file a support ticket.
The rules are located in the following places:
http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/
The two links above apply in-game and out of the game (forums)
The Forums have additional rules located here: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/forum-moderation-policy/
Chat Channel Rules are located here: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/chat-rules/
All policies can be located here: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/
If you have specific questions please file a support ticket asking a GM for clarification of the rules and policies.
ISD Athechu
Commander
STAR
EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources
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SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.04 19:54:17 -
[22] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos
Quote: You may not use any . . . offensive . . . or vulgar language.
Got it, thank you.
ergherhdfgh wrote:SpaceClap Uitra wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:The rules say we can't be crudely insulting to others, period.
Got it. ergherhdfgh wrote:Did you by chance come to this game from WoW? Then WoW and Eve have the same rules regarding foul language directed at others, if Memphis' understanding is accurate. I came to this game from WoW. WoW is geared for 13 year olds and the GMs do a lot of babysitting in that game. That is not the case here. This is an adult game and you are not assumed to have the right to not be offended or pissed off. . . . If you want a babysitter to protect you form people making comments that offend you then I suggest that you seek out another game because Eve is not for you.
Based on the ToS, this doesn't appear to be true. I was asking as much because of some prior incidents in chat channels in game, as well as due to the fact that other players seem to feel the same way, that there aren't many rules. Apparently there are. I brought it up to protect myself from infringing on these rules by accident through seeing others display it and following suit, as much as to protect others who thought it was within the rules. The ToS clearly states that offensive and vulgar language is not allowed. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9885
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Posted - 2015.06.04 20:27:47 -
[23] - Quote
This will end well.
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1103
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Posted - 2015.06.04 20:58:42 -
[24] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:The ToS clearly states that offensive and vulgar language is not allowed. CCP writes the TOS in such a way that they retain a lot of flexibility. Just because it says vulgar language is not allowed does not mean you will be punished for using it. Just that CCP retains the right to do so, which they usually reserve for excessive cases. Even then punishments are not usually permanent or even long-term.
CCP is like the school teacher on the playground. When some kid runs over crying about what you said they'll probably give you a slap on the wrist and say "bad boy". But what they are really thinking is "what a snotty little tattletale". And now the other kids on the playground despise him as well.
Whereas if you pushed a kid off the slide and he cracked open his head, then they would take real action.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Trevor Dalech
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
107
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Posted - 2015.06.04 21:09:07 -
[25] - Quote
Shoot and pod a Russian and throw the resulting EVE mail through google translate and you'll feel like you've just kicked over a steaming barrel filled with racist, sexist homophobic ****.
I blame Google. They must have said "good fight" but it got mangled.
Of course, if it did get translated well I could report it, but to be honest I've never bothered. They only make themselves look like idiots, occasionally I even get a good laugh out of it. The latest mail translated to "******* you".
Edit: that got filtered?!? The filter must be using a rhyming dictionary... |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Get Off My Lawn
194
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Posted - 2015.06.04 22:56:26 -
[26] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote:
Based on the ToS, this doesn't appear to be true. I was asking as much because of some prior incidents in chat channels in game, as well as due to the fact that other players seem to feel the same way, that there aren't many rules. Apparently there are. I brought it up to protect myself from infringing on these rules by accident through seeing others display it and following suit, as much as to protect others who thought it was within the rules. The ToS clearly states that offensive and vulgar language is not allowed.
Generally, it's frowned upon. But its not like CCP is actually going to act on every report they get of "OMG HE SAID THE F WORD TO ME!!!! BAN HIM!!!".
I mean, you could petition, but the chances that CCP will do anything is slim to none. Its just not worth enforcing for CCP.
Generally, its understood that EVE online has a more adult-oriented audience(Which is actually a fact when you take a look at the statistics), and therefore CCP understands that there will naturally be more swearing and adult content on EVE.
If this were enforced, we would lose over half the players overnight. And another half the following day.
Honestly, id just grow a thicker skin and learn to take or ignore it. Otherwise, again, maybe this game isnt for you. |
SpaceClap Uitra
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.05 00:04:49 -
[27] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:Shoot and pod a Russian and throw the resulting EVE mail through google translate and you'll feel like you've just kicked over a steaming barrel filled with racist, sexist homophobic ****.
I blame Google. They must have said "good fight" but it got mangled.
Of course, if it did get translated well I could report it, but to be honest I've never bothered. They only make themselves look like idiots, occasionally I even get a good laugh out of it. The latest mail translated to "******* you".
Edit: that got filtered?!? The filter must be using a rhyming dictionary...
Oh, actually a russian did that to me today. I'm not sure what the russian version for the "N-word' is, but google spelled it in translated english pretty explicitly. The funny part was that they used it off-handedly as a form of casual conversation when there hadn't even been any fighting involved yet. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9888
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Posted - 2015.06.05 00:10:14 -
[28] - Quote
Can we not start a Russian bashing conversation here lads.
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Paranoid Loyd
5627
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Posted - 2015.06.05 00:22:39 -
[29] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we not start a Russian bashing conversation here lads. Heh, they probably weren't even Russian. Just because the type Cyrillic characters does not mean they are Russian.
Further, IME with every Cyrillic typing player that has started cursing at me because I did bad stuff to them, once you speak to them calmly in their language they are actually quite nice and not any different than anyone else.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
585
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Posted - 2015.06.05 00:55:48 -
[30] - Quote
SpaceClap Uitra wrote: Based on the ToS, this doesn't appear to be true. I was asking as much because of some prior incidents in chat channels in game, as well as due to the fact that other players seem to feel the same way, that there aren't many rules. Apparently there are. I brought it up to protect myself from infringing on these rules by accident through seeing others display it and following suit, as much as to protect others who thought it was within the rules. The ToS clearly states that offensive and vulgar language is not allowed.
I'm letting you know how it actually plays out not what the rules say. I'm trying to save you and the rest of us a lot of discomfort. I can save you a lot of trouble. If you think that you are going to be the naughty language police and report people for using foul language your Eve experience will not be a good one and you won't last long. You can heed my warning or find out the hard way but my guess you'll find out one way or another.
Just in posing this question the way that you have has the potential to attract attention from the kind of people who get their kicks out of extracting tears from people who think that they will straiten out eve by reporting all the "bad people". CCP advertises this game on some ruthless and cut throat game play. Having people running around being the naughty language police does not fit into that genre well.
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