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Soldarius
Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
1299
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Posted - 2015.06.05 14:50:29 -
[31] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Unless this comes out paired with an active, scripted mid-slot module, I am against any kind of missile specific TD's. Why? Because Caldari ships do not typically have enough low slots to fit these in addition to Ballistic Controls which means that fitting one of these will inherently come at the expense of damage and missile speed. Allowing TD's to effect missiles on the basis of missiles FINALLY getting a specialized application mod would be a huge blunder and, I believe, a masked nerf to missile ships. In addition to losing damage and missile speed to fit one of these modules, missiles would still be vulnerable to firewalls as well as firing into a pre-repped ship due to flight time. For these reasons I am currently against TD's affecting missiles. Who's with me?
Also, hopefully this will come with missile tweaks that will fix some of the more... glorious of missile... features(?). *fingers crossed*
Since BCS are stacking penalized (as will be any misisle TE), the loss of dps needs to be more than offset by the increase in application. A small increase in range is not really going to be very useful in most cases.
I recall the last time CCP tried mucking about with missile stats via the modified tracking disruptor, aptly renamed Weapon Disruptor. It flatly did not work. I don't mean it was bad. It just didn't work. At all. Non-functional. Hopefully, someone finally figured out the relevant code.
The stats for range will have to be fairly strong for them to be useful. Like 33% increased range. Because 33% of 20km is not much. They can start by giving heavy missiles another 33% base range.
With application stats CCP will have to be more conservative.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
734
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Posted - 2015.06.05 15:50:25 -
[32] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:People have been asking for a pass on missiles (or at least certain ones, some more dire than others). This could be CCP's answer. Surely they are not just gonna introduce some TE for missiles and that's it, since that would not be the problem all missiles have, are they? Then again, we can only assume what it will do...we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it. Lets all wait for the nerf that mean any missile ship need 2-3 of these modules to get back to where they are now... That's exactly what I'm afraid of happening...and this is exactly what could do just that. Remember freighters? yes, tried to tell people befor the freighter changes that it would come with some serious nerf to "compensate" for the ability to fit module/rig If they can add tracking modules without gimping the base stats on missiles it would be a good change. Frig/Cruisers dont realy have the room or need for tracking module and battleship/dread need could use some help with application. Its not like battleships/phoenix are OP with missiles, everyone would be using them so trading tank/dps (low or med slot) for application cant be that OP either :P Except the freighter "nerf" didnt really happen. You can get almost same EHP and same cargo with the option to get a lot more of either.
And then there are virtually unkillable JFs with 1 mil ehp...
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins
114
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:09:51 -
[33] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Unless this comes out paired with an active, scripted mid-slot module, I am against any kind of missile specific TD's. Why? Because Caldari ships do not typically have enough low slots to fit these in addition to Ballistic Controls which means that fitting one of these will inherently come at the expense of damage and missile speed. Allowing TD's to effect missiles on the basis of missiles FINALLY getting a specialized application mod would be a huge blunder and, I believe, a masked nerf to missile ships. In addition to losing damage and missile speed to fit one of these modules, missiles would still be vulnerable to firewalls as well as firing into a pre-repped ship due to flight time. For these reasons I am currently against TD's affecting missiles. Who's with me?
Also, hopefully this will come with missile tweaks that will fix some of the more... glorious of missile... features(?). *fingers crossed* Since BCS are stacking penalized (as will be any misisle TE), the loss of dps needs to be more than offset by the increase in application. A small increase in range is not really going to be very useful in most cases. I recall the last time CCP tried mucking about with missile stats via the modified tracking disruptor, aptly renamed Weapon Disruptor. It flatly did not work. I don't mean it was bad. It just didn't work. At all. Non-functional. Hopefully, someone finally figured out the relevant code. The stats for range will have to be fairly strong for them to be useful. Like 33% increased range. Because 33% of 20km is not much. They can start by giving heavy missiles another 33% base range. With application stats CCP will have to be more conservative. 30% for one module is quite significant number 15% is more reasonable in my opinion. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1122
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:18:18 -
[34] - Quote
unidenify wrote: 30% for one module is quite significant number 15% is more reasonable in my opinion.
TEs are 10/20 TCs are 15/15
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
314
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:21:34 -
[35] - Quote
I hope they'll be midslot equipment inorder to make shield tankers sacrifice dps for tank, as we armor tankers got to.
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins
114
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:24:54 -
[36] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:I hope they'll be midslot equipment inorder to make shield tankers sacrifice dps for tank, as we armor tankers got to.
it will never happen
what will happen is that they will swap target painting out for said module
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1122
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:27:40 -
[37] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:I hope they'll be midslot equipment inorder to make shield tankers sacrifice dps for tank, as we armor tankers got to.
does that mean we can move some utility mods to the lows so you armor tankers have to give up tank for utility as we shield tankers do?
different tanks have different advantages and drawbacks that's what adds choice
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1347
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:48:01 -
[38] - Quote
Thank god all my missile ships have an abundance of low slots to play with to fit these.
Oh wait, they're all using BCUs to get a pisspoor paper DPS number....so now I'll be able to apply heehaw DPS. Fantastic. Like a cerberus with 2 BCUs and it's massive 379 Paper DPS.
Unless missiles get a DPS buff across the board. Likely. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
296
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:57:50 -
[39] - Quote
First.. yay for missile TE. 2nd.. missile nerfs incoming.
I am hoping the majority of the nerfs affect LM range/application. So as to bring their range down to 30ish km and MAYBE this will reduce some of the garm/orthrus and other kitey missile cancer that is so common nowadays. If garms want to orbit at 50km and missile spam, they will need the missile TE to get back up to prenerf range.
However if they nerf all missiles.. this will make missile ships even weaker. HAM ships for example have fairly low dps, and having to drop a BCU for MTE just to get back to the current normal stats is going to make them even weaker.
I dont think they could make heavies any worse.. but i wont rule it out completely. If they buff heavies, they will need to nerf RHML to compensate. Maybe lose a few missiles per clip if heavies get a damage/application buff.
Cruise might get a minor application nerf. Hopefully they tweak torps a bit and nerf bombers to compensate.
As to the kinetic lock.. you guys do realize that will never change in the t2 variations right? Maybe even some of the t1s. How would t2 gal resist profile look if caldari did omni damage? I for one am tired of gal being master race.. they dont need t2 omni resist profile too.
Gal do mainly therm/kinetic dmg, t2 caldari have resists in mainly therm and kinetic. Caldari do mainly kinetic and some thermal dmg and so gallente have high kinetic and slightly less thermal tank. If caldari suddenly do omni damage, then what do you think will happen to t2 gal resist profile?
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:02:36 -
[40] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:People have been asking for a pass on missiles (or at least certain ones, some more dire than others). This could be CCP's answer. Surely they are not just gonna introduce some TE for missiles and that's it, since that would not be the problem all missiles have, are they? Then again, we can only assume what it will do...we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it. Lets all wait for the nerf that mean any missile ship need 2-3 of these modules to get back to where they are now... That's exactly what I'm afraid of happening...and this is exactly what could do just that. Remember freighters? yes, tried to tell people befor the freighter changes that it would come with some serious nerf to "compensate" for the ability to fit module/rig If they can add tracking modules without gimping the base stats on missiles it would be a good change. Frig/Cruisers dont realy have the room or need for tracking module and battleship/dread need could use some help with application. Its not like battleships/phoenix are OP with missiles, everyone would be using them so trading tank/dps (low or med slot) for application cant be that OP either :P Except the freighter "nerf" didnt really happen. You can get almost same EHP and same cargo with the option to get a lot more of either. And then there are virtually unkillable JFs with 1 mil ehp...
Yout talkin deadspace fit slaved armor freighters can get same EHP and cargo? What about the natural shield tankers that have most of their EHP in shield or structure? A Charon need 3 Cargo Extenders to reach the same cargo space it had before (3 extenders = 200k more cargo, 2 extenders = 40k less) |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1347
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:04:39 -
[41] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Gal do mainly therm/kinetic dmg, t2 caldari have resists in mainly therm and kinetic. Caldari do mainly kinetic and some thermal dmg and so gallente have high kinetic and slightly less thermal tank. If caldari suddenly do omni damage, then what do you think will happen to t2 gal resist profile?
Nah because caldari still have hybrids and gallente have enough omnidamage i the shape of drone hulls the arguement could go both ways. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1122
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:11:24 -
[42] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Gal do mainly therm/kinetic dmg, t2 caldari have resists in mainly therm and kinetic. Caldari do mainly kinetic and some thermal dmg and so gallente have high kinetic and slightly less thermal tank. If caldari suddenly do omni damage, then what do you think will happen to t2 gal resist profile?
with your logic caldari should have omni resists do to the drones of gal ships
the kin lock is just bad and i'm glad CCP is slowly getting rid of it
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:19:27 -
[43] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Gal do mainly therm/kinetic dmg, t2 caldari have resists in mainly therm and kinetic. Caldari do mainly kinetic and some thermal dmg and so gallente have high kinetic and slightly less thermal tank. If caldari suddenly do omni damage, then what do you think will happen to t2 gal resist profile? with your logic caldari should have omni resists do to the drones of gal ships the kin lock is just bad and i'm glad CCP is slowly getting rid of it
This is true. Drones were buffed and made a primary weapon system later on in the game. So CCP still hasnt updated caldari resist profile. Course knowing CCPs hate of all things missile and caldari and love of all things gallente and drone, theyll probably buff galante resist profile and leave caldari alone /tinfoil
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1122
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:29:09 -
[44] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
This is true. Drones were buffed and made a primary weapon system later on in the game. So CCP still hasnt updated caldari resist profile. Course knowing CCPs hate of all things missile and caldari and love of all things gallente and drone, theyll probably buff galante resist profile and leave caldari alone /tinfoil
or more likely if they decide to remove the kin lock they will just leave resists alone since gameplay>lore
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:12:12 -
[45] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:
This is true. Drones were buffed and made a primary weapon system later on in the game. So CCP still hasnt updated caldari resist profile. Course knowing CCPs hate of all things missile and caldari and love of all things gallente and drone, theyll probably buff galante resist profile and leave caldari alone /tinfoil
or more likely if they decide to remove the kin lock they will just leave resists alone since gameplay>lore
Id like to see it happen. But looking at the most recent balance pass on recons, they initially made the rook RoF bonused, but then people wanted damage bonus instead for RLML. CCP tacked on kinetic damage bonus. So even fairly recently, they still havent shyed away from kinetic lock dmg bonuses.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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stoicfaux
5815
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:55:55 -
[46] - Quote
Any mid slot module would need to be as effective or more effective than a TP, i.e. 30% bonus for T2.
What I'm interested in is whether battleship missile boats can finally be free of the Tyranny that is Rigor/Flare rigs, thus opening up those rig slots for more interesting fits.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1125
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:59:02 -
[47] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Any mid slot module would need to be as effective or more effective than a TP, i.e. 30% bonus for T2.
What I'm interested in is whether battleship missile boats can finally be free of the Tyranny that is Rigor/Flare rigs, thus opening up those rig slots for more interesting fits.
no you will need to use Calefaction Catalyst to make up for the loss in DPS you have to take to fit the MGS needed to get your application back to what it was originally
evin if this does become a benefit to some BC/BB that have the lows to compensate its the frigs-cruisers that don't have many lows that are going to be hurt by this
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1348
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:59:07 -
[48] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Any mid slot module would need to be as effective or more effective than a TP, i.e. 30% bonus for T2.
What I'm interested in is whether battleship missile boats can finally be free of the Tyranny that is Rigor/Flare rigs, thus opening up those rig slots for more interesting fits.
If they have the lows so spare - so the typhoon, really. Maybe PvE ravens where the DC can be lost.
ed: And the bargy. I guess. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1859
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:01:12 -
[49] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Any mid slot module would need to be as effective or more effective than a TP, i.e. 30% bonus for T2.
What I'm interested in is whether battleship missile boats can finally be free of the Tyranny that is Rigor/Flare rigs, thus opening up those rig slots for more interesting fits.
How dare you expect to be able to use your rigs for something else than application? |
stoicfaux
5815
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:08:44 -
[50] - Quote
Guys, there are missile modules in both the TE and TC sections, so there will be a mid-slot item: TC - Missile Guidance Computer (Compact, T1, and T2.) TE - Missile Guidance Enhancer (Compact, T1, and T2.)
Also here's the description for the Missile TC: "By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the precision and range of missiles. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized."
and for the Missile TE: "Enhances the range and improves the precision of missiles. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized"
Again, none of them have stats yet.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1348
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:12:07 -
[51] - Quote
The one ship that will make hilariously abusive use of these is the RHML 'phoon. The rest....I feel like it is highly likely a case of robbing peter to pay paul. |
unidenify
Plundering Penguins
114
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:13:30 -
[52] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Guys, there are missile modules in both the TE and TC sections, so there will be a mid-slot item: TC - Missile Guidance Computer (Compact, T1, and T2.) TE - Missile Guidance Enhancer (Compact, T1, and T2.)
Also here's the description for the Missile TC: "By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the precision and range of missiles. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized."
and for the Missile TE: "Enhances the range and improves the precision of missiles. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized"
Again, none of them have stats yet.
I guess we can expect nerf on missiles then
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1125
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:16:03 -
[53] - Quote
unidenify wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Guys, there are missile modules in both the TE and TC sections, so there will be a mid-slot item: TC - Missile Guidance Computer (Compact, T1, and T2.) TE - Missile Guidance Enhancer (Compact, T1, and T2.)
Also here's the description for the Missile TC: "By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the precision and range of missiles. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized."
and for the Missile TE: "Enhances the range and improves the precision of missiles. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized"
Again, none of them have stats yet.
I guess we can expect nerf on missiles then
at this point we just have to hope its not to bad :/
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins
114
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:18:24 -
[54] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:unidenify wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Guys, there are missile modules in both the TE and TC sections, so there will be a mid-slot item: TC - Missile Guidance Computer (Compact, T1, and T2.) TE - Missile Guidance Enhancer (Compact, T1, and T2.)
Also here's the description for the Missile TC: "By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the precision and range of missiles. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized."
and for the Missile TE: "Enhances the range and improves the precision of missiles. Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized"
Again, none of them have stats yet.
I guess we can expect nerf on missiles then at this point we just have to hope its not to bad :/ best scenarios is heavy and torpedoes left alone while other 4 class get nerf. However, given that rhml exist, I will bet they nerf heavy further
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1125
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:21:57 -
[55] - Quote
unidenify wrote: best scenarios is heavy and torpedoes left alone while other 4 class get nerf. However, given that rhml exist, I will bet they nerf heavy further
aye i can't imagine heavies (at least RHML) will make it out of this w/o some bruises i'm also worried about HAMs they are already in an awkward place and i feel they may get their teeth kicked in
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract O X I D E
399
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Posted - 2015.06.05 19:26:41 -
[56] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Any mid slot module would need to be as effective or more effective than a TP, i.e. 30% bonus for T2.
What I'm interested in is whether battleship missile boats can finally be free of the Tyranny that is Rigor/Flare rigs, thus opening up those rig slots for more interesting fits.
How dare you expect to be able to use your rigs for something else than application? Wait.... I thought missile ships wouldn't allow you to fit anything except Anti-EM and Rigors/Flares. I think I tried that once and got an error message saying that if I wanted variety in fits I should fly one of Fozzie's favorite ships instead... |
stoicfaux
5815
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Posted - 2015.06.05 20:09:24 -
[57] - Quote
Also, for the sake of completeness, there are Missile Precision Scripts and Missile Range Scripts on sisi. No stats.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
322
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Posted - 2015.06.05 20:15:58 -
[58] - Quote
So. Please fact check me.
LMs are fired by frigates and destroyers, and have no issue destroying frigates and destroyers. Cruise Missiles are fired by Battleships, and have no issue destroying battleships. Heavy Assault Missiles and Heavies are fired by Cruisers and Battlecruisers, and have issues applying damage to cruisers.
Maybe its time they addressed the bigger issue of ultra-fast cruisers instead of band-aiding missiles into the next absurd meta-stagnating and dominating weapon system. The current meta is already frustrating for old and new player alike, this will only make it worse. Turrets are in terrible shape, with a few exceptions; fixing the current meta would fix this problem, and the issue that HAMS and heavies have.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins
114
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Posted - 2015.06.05 20:21:20 -
[59] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Also, for the sake of completeness, there are Missile Precision Scripts and Missile Range Scripts on sisi. No stats.
Missile Precision make me think as if it will affect explosive radius
if so, question would be that, what is ideal combo between Target Painting and said Modules when use on Golem.
2x TP 2x MGE? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1125
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Posted - 2015.06.05 20:35:18 -
[60] - Quote
unidenify wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Also, for the sake of completeness, there are Missile Precision Scripts and Missile Range Scripts on sisi. No stats.
Missile Precision make me think as if it will affect explosive radius if so, question would be that, what is ideal combo between Target Painting and said Modules when use on Golem. 2x TP 2x MGE?
no the question is how many lows/mids did i lose
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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