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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
476
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Posted - 2015.06.24 21:46:39 -
[31] - Quote
Myra Stark wrote:@Thanatos
Thanks for clarifying.... from my previous post "unconstrained smartbomb use is also problematic"
Have you guys looked at the impact the change would have on plex fights?
- Without the potential for standings hits, fitting up SBing Destroyers and Cruisers is easily done. Everyone sits their SBing ship 1500m off the beacon. Now we have Pipe Bombing Faction Warfare style.
Thoughts?
We've run pipebombs in plexes already. It isn't a great mechanic to defend a plex since most things can tank their way out of the SB range. |
Veratrix
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
22
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:42:21 -
[32] - Quote
It's already an option for anyone not in faction warfare in lowsec, and I haven't seen it done effectively yet. The range and damage on smalls isn't enough to effectively do it in those size plexes. The damage and range on mediums is pretty bad as well, one cycle of 6 tech 2 medium sb's (which you would have to gimp any t1 cruiser to fit) is 840 damage before resist. It's just not something I'm even remotely afraid of happening on any large scale. It can be done in larges but there is no guaranteed warp in point and no cynos, so not really feasible.
Again, this technique is already possible to people in the same corp and to pirates and has been for years. I have never seen it done successfully once. Have you? |
Myra Stark
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
0
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Posted - 2015.06.25 12:47:25 -
[33] - Quote
No I haven't tried using smartbombs inside a plex in a fight. My question and position was based on some EFT warrioring and thinking through potential plex tactics militia FCs might use if this change is made. We all know that EFT success can fail miserably in a fight. The facts and experience you guys shared are convincing. |
Esnaelc Sin'led
Lone.
10
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Posted - 2015.06.27 22:41:50 -
[34] - Quote
There're a couple of things to do regarding FW mechanics :
1. 2 factions vs 2 factions : Let FW be a 1v3 space. With this, no more awoxing possible from the other "allied" faction. Plus from a RolePlay point of view, alliance would still be possible, as long as you chose to cease fire with a said-corporation in that FW. Player relations would "really" matter, diplomacy as well, etcetera...
2. Faction standing hits : While hitting Militia allies in the same fleet, or destroying a wreck with a militia tag on it, or a pod being in that fleet. Would match point 1. as FCs would allowed people getting in their fleets carefully to avoid anykind of "gaming" that rule around. Like in RL, errors would still occure, that's a good thing !
3. SecStatus hits : It's been discussed already, and i think that's a great idea : getting timers on accelaration gate activation. But i was thinking about something more "radical", i admit it's not well thought yet : If a neutral chose to come and hunt for a militian he should therefore "suffer" from such a choice one way or the other. By getting a Faction standing hit ? Why not ? We are fighting for this very faction after all, right ? Just like one would take a hit by firing upon a Sansha NPC or Blood Raider NPC ? Limit that in complexes, otherwise it would kill fleet roams Neutral Fleets vs Faction Fleets.
4. Emphasising PvP over Farming complexes : Raise LP earned from KILLS / Lower LP earned by plexes alone. A lot of what is STILL annoying with farmers is not that they just flee combat with cloacks and WCSs but that they PUSH systems while farming and not taking care at all of the impacts to "true" militians. They farm as a militia of Faction A in a system of faction B to earn the best possible LP amount, but at the same time, they raise its vulnerability to the point where "true" militians of faction A come to take it over without any "push operation", just jumping onto the occasion. On the other side, faction B if well aware, has to farm back to stablise it, and that could be a pain to do this specially if there is no fight from the ennemy faction that would have pushed this system in purpose and for an ACTUAL conquest operation.
5. Emphasise the "faction" membership : In order to prettify (?) FW reputation it would be great if, let's say the number of systems earned by Faction A would give bonuses in each and every Faction A systems (even High Sec, specially High Sec) in a multiple kind of type PvE / Industry / Mining / Taxes / POS fuel consumption / .. i don't know. This way we might see some HUBs changing locations, or people engaging even for a month or 2 or 3 in FW just to get bonuses, so what ? That's good ! It's like engaging people for a War we need to win, till we have to fight again ! Bonuses in HS means more potential engagements in FW, more activity, more fights, more turn-over !
Excuse my french. Hope i was understandable. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
704
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Posted - 2015.06.27 23:05:46 -
[35] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:I don't do FW - but from reading this post and expanding on the point of standing and security - there might be a need for CCP to redress the whole system from the ground up (large scale task. Something they can do after SOV changes settle)
My understanding is 1: Standings only now effect what missions you get and your refining tax in HiSec (low enough standings make those empires shoot you) 2: Security Status seems to be worthless and easily fixed if you know what your doing.
What I feel could change 1: Standings need more merit for the grind - NPC support while running missions? Lower LP store cost? Cheaper repair cost? 2: Negetive security status should be a PITA to crawl out of - the lower it is the harder the climb back out (with this in mind - major security hits should come from players attacking Empire ships, and Capsulers allied to that Empire. Not so much maybe from POD kills as the Empires both hate and love Capsulers.).
Perhaps the best way would keep FW rules and then move up in strictness for HiSec and lower the hardness of the rules for Null (FW tends to be heavy LowSec)
(A) 1. This is relatively true. The CORPORATION standing is reflected this way, however - there is something to note with this. If you drop FW and get attacked by a player in the State Protectorate, The Scope or other NPC corps that accept people and you kill them - you will instantly take a massive corporation hit of about 10-50%. Causing you to go from 10 standing to -10 nearly instantly; even if a suspect timer, criminal timer or Pirate tag is on the player. Let me clarify however, this is not the result of AWOXING. This means that even though i've been loyal to FW for years and had a +10 standing. Because I became a pirate and killed some guy in an NPC corp I lost all my standings. (NOT in the same FW faction, as a neutral faction)
The other effect is the FACTION standing which represent every faction under the umbrella of that faction Caldari State, Gallente Federation, Amar Empire, Ore, Sisters of EvE, etc. This is the one that has an even major effect. If your standing drops too low individually, you will be unable to join the NPC corporation - if your total combined standing of corporate members falls too low then your corp will be kicked and cannot join. Furthermore, if it is even lower (it drops like crazy from friendly fire within FW factions) you will be barred from Highsec of that faction. The only way to repair it would be (Promotions [1 time]):(Cosmost[1 Time]):(Sisters of EvE Arc:[Every Few Months]) and Story Line Mission Spam.
(B) 1. This may be true, however - the total system needs a revamp before that happens. Otherwise you will have a situation where people are constantly screwed for playing the game; even when they aren't harassing people and engaging in mutually fun fights.
2. I disagree, I think there should be a cost and that in some way or another you should pay. But I disagree with the current system of locking people into FW factions due to standing losses being PITA etc. I don't think you should change willy nilly, but I believe it should be more dynamic and allow players who put a bit of effort into it to turn coat or repair their standings for their mistakes. With derivative standings, the only way is to do so now is play the story line balance game or farm sisters of eve end of arc missions (no derived standing, could hypothetically get +10 with all empire factions this way) |
Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
23
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Posted - 2015.06.29 01:58:42 -
[36] - Quote
Possible Ways to use AOE type weapon systems and if the person who uses it gets a standing hit, there should be a way a person can turn in tags to fix FW standings, similarly to the way Sec status is fixed via the tag system. And if people don't fix there standing then they are out of FW,
BLACK FOX is RECRUITING
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
479
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:09:58 -
[37] - Quote
Figuring out the "Santo Quandry" is hard (People Awoxing using AoE weapons to kill pods, still less of an issue than current allied militia). I'm still stuck on it, but if any brains out there can think up a good solution it would be nice.
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
868
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Posted - 2015.06.29 18:24:22 -
[38] - Quote
A proposal - link Faction Standings hits for aggressive actions to the Corp PvP flag.
In short, if your corporation has elected to allow pilot-on-pilot violence, then folks don't take standings hits for aggressive actions against you. If you have your "safety flag" set to prevent awoxing, then folks would still take standings hits.
This would allow similarly-minded FW groups to pursue riskier strategies involving AOE defenses, while keeping standings hits for those who are more carebear risk averse oriented. In addition, tying the mechanic to the corp PvP election makes intuitive sense, because you're in essence electing a higher risk strategy as a corporation.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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JetStream Drenard
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
63
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Posted - 2015.06.30 00:00:08 -
[39] - Quote
First. I am 100% behind the no faction standings loss for AOE weapons/bubbles in Null Sec and WH space, as these areas of space are lawless. This mechanic is almost completely locking militia out of enjoying other parts of the game. Sure, we could leave militia, but we do happen to identify with our militia's very strongly, and if we wanted to leave we would have.
Bottom line is, every other entity in Eve is free to roam wherever they wish and not worry about getting kicked out of their corp or loosing their organizational identity. I wish this could be changed when Fozzie Sov happens, so that we can use our skills to capture SOV as well as FW, without worrying about the need for everyone involved to be in the same corp.
However, I am on the fence about allowing the standings loss AOE free usage in Low Sec. My reason for not liking it is very simple, anyone can join at anytime and there is zero accountability for standings free loss issues if this idea were to go live. The awoxers would have a field day with little consequence. Militia's are a bit like a coalition, except with no central leadership to resolve awoxing incidents and other wrongs. We are all just running around in our own little circles and occasionally notice the other blues in local. I would fully support this idea if it would be available to anyone in a fleet or gang, as a fleetmember, to be able to use all the tools, so to speak. (I know, legacy code) |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
479
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 00:04:39 -
[40] - Quote
JetStream Drenard wrote: However, I am on the fence about allowing the standings loss AOE free usage in Low Sec. My reason for not liking it is very simple, anyone can join at anytime and there is zero accountability for standings free loss issues if this idea were to go live. The awoxers would have a field day with little consequence. Militia's are a bit like a coalition, except with no central leadership to resolve awoxing incidents and other wrongs. We are all just running around in our own little circles and occasionally notice the other blues in local. I would fully support this idea if it would be available to anyone in a fleet or gang, as a fleetmember, to be able to use all the tools, so to speak. (I know, legacy code)
yeah, this is what I refer to as "The Santo Quandry". It still isn't as bad as using the allied militia overview nonsense to kill people because that can be done with every single weapon system, but hopefully that will be going away. |
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Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
23
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Posted - 2015.07.02 07:35:27 -
[41] - Quote
hmm
BLACK FOX is RECRUITING
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George Gouillot
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
66
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Posted - 2015.07.07 09:07:31 -
[42] - Quote
To change AoE weapons might or might not be a coding / game mechanism issue. I think it would be more favorable to just get rid of alliance and corporation faction standing requirements for enlisting / staying in militia and should be simple enough to be coded as it would affect no other game mechanisms at all. I would keep the requirements for NPC milita corps as this will preven unconsequential Awoxing. Awoxers in player corps / awoxing corps should be handled by the players themselves with exisitng mechanisms (wardecs / corp standings and a nbsi doctrine)
I am skipping the RP/lore issue here as it is still easy to switch sides albeit with some (stupid) mission grinding involved.
@Sugar Kyle: this is by no means a "low-sec rule set" thing - we are talking FW standing mechanisms here. It would do you good to come back to this post and comment on the suggestions you asked for. People might otherwise think you are biased as your alliance would not like seing more AoE weapons around Rakapas other than Santo and his alts. (Who btw adds more content to this game than most other players - everyone knows and secretely likes the feeling of discomfort being in a non-empty pod and him in system). |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
482
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Posted - 2015.07.08 18:14:05 -
[43] - Quote
I think there are enough negatives to being in faction warfare that removing the blocks to use weapons available for warfare that are available to everyone else in lowsec and nullsec won't lead to everyone shouting that there aren't any negatives (Station lockouts, trashed faction standings, etc.).
Speaking of negatives to being in FW though, I think the faction navy rats could use a hefty upgrade so newbro's aren't constantly farmed in highsec. |
Esnaelc Sin'led
AdAstra. Beach Club
10
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Posted - 2015.07.11 18:19:28 -
[44] - Quote
Looks like we've been read : https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3cwj2v/suspect_timers_on_entering_fw_plexes_confirmed/ |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
482
|
Posted - 2015.07.12 00:45:09 -
[45] - Quote
Yeah, CCP Affinity dropped some knowledge yesterday for sure. New missions in the works, suspect flag on accel gates, and hopefully a split of the factions.
Hopefully we can get standings issues in nullsec and AoE weapons in low addressed as well. |
Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
23
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Posted - 2015.08.05 18:22:02 -
[46] - Quote
I hope so as well, as it will give us more options to the tools of the trade we can use.
BLACK FOX is RECRUITING
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