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Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.20 13:21:00 -
[1]
So I finally took the plunge and decided to put up my own POS for the purpose of production and research. I read up as much as I could before taking the plunge, and I finally did it last weekend. My problem is that after anchoring the Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array, I noticed that the material factor on it is 1.1 and not 1.0 like its normal counterparts. While the 75% time factor is nice, I thought that the POS structures would be as efficient with materials their station counterparts if not more efficient. I'm also annoyed that this little fact creeped up on me, and I was wondering if anyone could refer me to a thread or resource for POS t2 production. I don't want to make any more mistakes, as this one has proved costly.
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Erfnam
Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:16:00 -
[2]
Typically with t2 production, the biggest limiting factor is time to build, not efficiency. T2 markup should more than cover the 10% loss in minerals. You'll get a lower margin, but much higher volume.
The efficient manufacturing array used to give a bonus to mineral cost, but that turned in to an exploitable thing. (build + refine = profit).
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Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 20/11/2006 16:30:14 I don't believe that would be exploitable now. Look at what is listed on a bpo, and then make it at a station, when it gets a quote it will list a manufacturing waste factor and list the amount of waste materials and the amount of materials that actually go into the product. The sum of the two is equal to what is on the bpo (which is why it says it does not take into account the efficiency of a non-station facility). When you recycle the product, you do not get back what was in the manufacturing waste column. In a POS I was hoping what was in the waste material column would be less or the same, but in the case of this array its more.
As for absorbing the additional cost and being better off, that is not a reason to intentionally make these arrays need more materials. If I am making Prowlers and earning 25% on them (costs 16 and sells for 20), this additional 10% loss is cutting to the bone. Sure the 25% less production time is nice, but that is the pay off for the effort of putting up and maintaining a tower. Why the 10% penalty on raw materials?
I was hoping to make t1 cruisers as well, but to avoid this 10% surcharge I will have to get another array.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2006.11.20 21:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vladimir Titov Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 20/11/2006 16:30:14 I don't believe that would be exploitable now. Look at what is listed on a bpo, and then make it at a station, when it gets a quote it will list a manufacturing waste factor and list the amount of waste materials and the amount of materials that actually go into the product. The sum of the two is equal to what is on the bpo (which is why it says it does not take into account the efficiency of a non-station facility). When you recycle the product, you do not get back what was in the manufacturing waste column. In a POS I was hoping what was in the waste material column would be less or the same, but in the case of this array its more.
As for absorbing the additional cost and being better off, that is not a reason to intentionally make these arrays need more materials. If I am making Prowlers and earning 25% on them (costs 16 and sells for 20), this additional 10% loss is cutting to the bone. Sure the 25% less production time is nice, but that is the pay off for the effort of putting up and maintaining a tower. Why the 10% penalty on raw materials?
I was hoping to make t1 cruisers as well, but to avoid this 10% surcharge I will have to get another array.
The same manufacturing setup isn't always right for every last person. Most medium combat ships are in full production with high margins, so you'd have to be an idiot not to produce in a POS array since another few million in production costs is nothing compared to tens of millions in profit. In your case this may not be the way to go, but it does work for a lot of people.
* If you really want to go high-end, find an Amarr outpost. .7 time multiplier with only the 1.0 material multiplier ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.21 18:12:00 -
[5]
Thanks to everyone for their input. For the time being I am pressing ahead. I hate ordering excess materials from my suppliers, so I thought I would ask if someone who has done this before could say how the 1.1 waste is added.
For instance, if something takes 1 Wreathe to produce, that becomes 1.1 Wreath which is rounded down to 1 again. If you I try to make 10 units though, will it ask for 10 Wreathes or 11?
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Silmenel
Otaku Holdings Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2006.11.22 09:34:00 -
[6]
the 1.1 factor is only on the advanced arrays and on components arrays ... tech1 is not affected
i use a small ship assembly array - first time i put in material x1.1 and rounded up but as it didn't use all the materials i had calculated i assume it's not rounding up _______
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Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 13:52:00 Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 13:51:38 Thanks for that bit of info Silmenel. My guess is that it rounds up/down for 1 unit and then mutliplies that by the number of runs, as opposed to calculating the waste on all runs together.
One more slap in the face was that this array only has one manufacturing slot, where as the normal ship ones have 3, and other arrays can have as many as 5-8. I only have the one bpo, but using the odd bpc I have would have been nice. Talk about adding insult to injury.
I sincerely hope this serves warning to other t2 producers out there. If you are already contending with moderate to tight margins, it is not worth it.
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Psionist
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vladimir Titov Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 13:52:00 Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 13:51:38 Thanks for that bit of info Silmenel. My guess is that it rounds up/down for 1 unit and then mutliplies that by the number of runs, as opposed to calculating the waste on all runs together.
One more slap in the face was that this array only has one manufacturing slot, where as the normal ship ones have 3, and other arrays can have as many as 5-8. I only have the one bpo, but using the odd bpc I have would have been nice. Talk about adding insult to injury.
I sincerely hope this serves warning to other t2 producers out there. If you are already contending with moderate to tight margins, it is not worth it.
You mean it's not worth it *to you*. As already stated, many other people have favored the time savings over the extra material costs.
And especially if you're producing these ships deep in an area with no normal manufacturing facilities, this PoS component is invaluable.
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Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:01:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 15:29:33
Originally by: Psionist
Originally by: Vladimir Titov Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 13:52:00 Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 22/11/2006 13:51:38 Thanks for that bit of info Silmenel. My guess is that it rounds up/down for 1 unit and then mutliplies that by the number of runs, as opposed to calculating the waste on all runs together.
One more slap in the face was that this array only has one manufacturing slot, where as the normal ship ones have 3, and other arrays can have as many as 5-8. I only have the one bpo, but using the odd bpc I have would have been nice. Talk about adding insult to injury.
I sincerely hope this serves warning to other t2 producers out there. If you are already contending with moderate to tight margins, it is not worth it.
You mean it's not worth it *to you*. As already stated, many other people have favored the time savings over the extra material costs.
And especially if you're producing these ships deep in an area with no normal manufacturing facilities, this PoS component is invaluable.
Please take the effort to read the post before commenting. I said "If you are already contending with moderate to tight margins...". And this is true, if you are only making 20-25% off of ship, like a blockade runner or a logistics cruiser, then the extra 10% material cost will not be worth it because any time savings are moot, you will not move the product faster than an empire slot can produce. For ships that have higher margins are sell quick, it will be worth it. And even if it is worth, I think people would still appreciate a heads up rather than finding out about it by accident.
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Xerxes Ceasar
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:33:00 -
[10]
This is just another example of bad information from CCP. Instead of writing proper information in the item info, they force players to discover these nice little features by trial and error. It's not fun spending alot of isk and time on an item that don't match your expectations. If it would say somewhere that there is a 1.1 material factor, people would get the chance too decide if it's worth it or not. Xerxes
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