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Drusus Rensus
Gallente Klima Galactic
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 20/11/2006 17:39:01 Over the past couple of months we've been treated to quite a few threads from BoB that are some combination of:
a) Touting their successes in the war b) Ridiculing ASCN and ASCN command's failures in the war c) Ridiculing things that have been written on ASCN's private forums d) Telling ASCN membership that their leaders suck, and that defeat is inevitable, and that they should just give up and leave.
Whether you view these as organized, calculated "propaganda" or not, they are most certainly meant for public consumption (otherwise they'd be in eve-mails). So, my question is what, if any, effect have they had on your opinion of BoB?
Please reply with a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" or "don't care" and a brief explaination of why if you'd like. Obviously this thread is aimed at parties not directly involved in the conflict (i.e. not BoB, ASCN, or their allies). Of course, I can't keep involved parties from posting if they want to, but I'm more interested in what third parties are thinking of these posts.
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thoth foc
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus
d) Telling ASCN membership that their leaders suck, and that defeat is inevitable, and that they should just give up and leave.
I'm not sure this is the correct message you've perceived, ASCN are still over 4k memebers, they still have many rich players and corps.. they can still field 100+ fleets.. defeat is only inevitable if they continue to believe HC's "honestly everything will be alrite in the end" messages and dont shape up and start fighting back..
Originally by: Drusus Rensus
Obviously this thread is aimed at parties not directly involved in the conflict
If you want to restrict groups from answering, i suggest not naming them, and passing you own opinions are being theirs
>: ) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/11/2006 17:51:00
I'm saddened by the lack of "good fight" posts by BoB. While some other alliances are worse (see AAA's Evil Thug denounce "good fight" posts as stupid carebearing "flower picking"), they should at least some of the time post a simple, plain "good fight" like many other alliances do. Even AAA was quite friendly with us on the forums after our massive 28-hour battle in ED-L9T, both sides congratulating the other on a good fight. BoB seems to rarely do this, at least not with any sort of official announcement.
However, I think the primary purpose of the "propaganda" is out of sheer desperation. They want a good fight, and unfortunately due to ASCN's preferring hit-and-run to direct-fleet-combat, they have been unable to get one. This isn't working against them in the war--if anything it is helping them--but its probably boring them.
I don't think any of it has improved my opinion of BoB in any real way.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:49:00 -
[4]
Getting sick of them all tbh. D2 has conquered way more space than bob yet you dont see 50 threads for each war, ok theres usually one but thats about it, and that is never started by d2 high command with the intent of making the enemy look stupid, unlike most of the current ones in this section of the forums. Its not always bad, i do like to see pics/vids of the fights i wasnt near but the usual epeen waving and ridiculing is getting pretty tiresome for me, and the rest of eve id imagination.
*Thumbs down :( less epeen more piccys!!!
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All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:51:00 -
[5]
A lot of it is rubbish and quite easy to see if you ahve half a brain. But there is the odd quote or comment in those threads that really drives home how much ASCN suck. The thing with not using the titan until KALI, just defies belief. Cyvok's one hour rant/audio blog does not sound like someone capable of leading a 4k man alliance in this war.
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:57:00 -
[6]
As long as they keep up posts like:
Quote: As I'm sure you will enjoy my clammy hand up your lint covered innards, when I use you in my muppet themed re-enactment of this war next year.
I'm all cheerleading for em.
Seriously, propaganda or not, I keep getting myself drawn towards this forum to pick up little gems like that.
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maarud
Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:58:00 -
[7]
Most of what comes in here now days it pure and utter smack and it's quite depressing, just when we had got rid of the goons alt smacking, we have to now deal with this.
I'd love it if there we decient posts detailing detailing battles with the outcomes, but whats being posted generally boils down to "we pwn, you guys suck, omglol, go home, give us your stuffs".
maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Weebear
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:10:00 -
[8]
I'll put myself in the "Don't Care" category, sometimes the posts from BoB HC can be a fun read sometimes they are just pointless excuses to make a post. Some of their members can post sensibly, others can't. This is as true for BoB as it is for any other alliance out there.
The key is to recognise people who regularly post sense to the ones who don't, and ignore the ones who don't (or the other way round depending on what you are looking for out the forums!). Don't let one group of posters dictate what you think of any one alliance, make up your own mind. |
Erikel
Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:10:00 -
[9]
Thumbs down.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:14:00 -
[10]
its a clear attempt to demoralize ASCN the best thing other alliances can do is crowd out BOB with their own unrelated threads we need more smaller corps making annoucements - good to see BE making some noise tho
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:29:00 -
[11]
the problem bob has is that with all the posts and spamming almost everyone reading these forums know that 99.9% is just crap and nonsense. bob posts to much for anyone to actually take them seriously.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Ruato
Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:35:00 -
[12]
What i dont like about this 'BoB Propaganda' is that they are filling every ascn/bob thread with useless crap.
I'm not involved in this conflict at all, but i'm quite interested how things go in battlefield. And its impossible to get any reliable info from these forums because BoB's is filling every thread with self centered junk.
Basically signal/noise ratio is pretty **** poor in every thread because of bob players. --- Get rid of those *bleep*ing secure containers. *bleep*! |
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xendie the problem bob has is that with all the posts and spamming almost everyone reading these forums know that 99.9% is just crap and nonsense. bob posts to much for anyone to actually take them seriously.
There is always a limits to which games or the persona's within should be taken seriously.
>: ) |
maarud
Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:38:00 -
[14]
Personally I'd like seleene to be there for every big battle and she can post a seperate battle report, which I think most people would go straight to and skip the BoB propaganda post battle report.
Lets vote now!
maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Pepperami
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:40:00 -
[15]
I try not to read them, I enjoy reading entertaining smack, but most bob/ascn threads are pretty pathetic on that front, it keeps getting personal.
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Edheler
Quintessential Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I'm saddened by the lack of "good fight" posts by BoB.
Originally by: Dark Shikari [some others do, some call it names]
If these truths can be held as self evident:
1) There are basically two camps in EVE, those who say "it's just a game" and those who say "yes, but..." 2) Most combat in EVE is ganking or being ganked. Very little combat occurs between reasonably well matched gangs.
Respect can be earned when the situation isn't ridiculous for one side or another. The other times, the only thing that builds between the entities is resentment. Since EVE is "just a game" people might get ****ed because another group prevents them from achieving their goals. This is where the "yes, but..." folks come into play.
Try to balance the respect and resentment and what do you get? The huge disaster which is EVE 0.0 politics. It's very, very similar to the way that high school cliques worked if you take a few steps back and look at it objectively.
As to BoB, I think someone has to give them a good fight for them to actually respect it. I would guess that hasn't actually happened much in the ASCN war. Sometimes respect can be had after a war, as in "You fought with everything you had and really gave it your all." However that is a much different kind of respect from respecting a single fight.
Why does BoB win at what they do: teamwork. If you look closely it's what MC does right as well. Everyone works towards the same goals. Nearly all other alliances are just random conglomerations of corporations with different goals going in different directions: the ego is greater than the team. With BoB and MC they are enlightened enough to know: the team is greater than the ego. They prove it to EVE nearly every day, I really do wonder why most of EVE seems so blind to this. (P.S. It's also the reason why you have never seen a mass assault of BoB. Each individual entity wants to be the one who "took down BoB" and thus none will team up with others.)
I doubt that any entity in EVE will displace BoB short of a significant fraction of BoB deciding to quit EVE.
Edheler Quintessential CEO
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Edheler As to BoB, I think someone has to give them a good fight for them to actually respect it. I would guess that hasn't actually happened much in the ASCN war. Sometimes respect can be had after a war, as in "You fought with everything you had and really gave it your all." However that is a much different kind of respect from respecting a single fight.
I don't think a respectful "good fight" implies the fight was fair.
I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa. If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus have they had on your opinion of BoB?
Tarnished it somewhat.
In my image BoB (+MC) is the dominant alliance force in the game currently; I have quite deal of respect to those people who lead and/or made it such force.
I think both parties would have a more enjoyable war in the game if it was not, in part, spoiled by propaganda attempts at morale, spies and espionage in general.
That is, if they (BoB) can afford to keep the game more enjoyable for all parties, it would worth the effort.
-Lasse Who, consequently, has little respect to those who choose to join the 'top dogs' of the game
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Edheler
Quintessential Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa.
Good for you then, sadly I know very few pilots who act this way consistently though.
Originally by: Dark Shikari If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
Here is the crux of the difference between the "it's just a game" and "yes, but..." crowd. In that chess game how much would you have invested in the outcome? How would you feel if you bet a significant chunk of currency on it? How about if you had trained for months for the match? Or how about someone came into your "house" put down the chess board and said "win or get the heck out of my house." Game in the classical definition does not encompass EVE very well. Most players have too much invested.
The only comparisons I have come up with which seem to get the level of intensity right are "games" between professional sports teams.
Originally by: Dark Shikari I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
I am not sure that any mere words could really change most of EVE's position on BoB today.
Edheler Quintessential CEO
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Prodigy Z
ZiTek Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:18:00 -
[20]
Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that BOB is looking for a good fight. I personally donĘt think they are. I think they want only the fight where they can obliterate their opponent. If there was a BOB obliteration the propaganda machine would crank up and tell of horrible lag or how ASCN crashed the server. The bottom line is that I donĘt think that BOB can tell a fair and accurate story, every communication is meant to bolster their own personal image and nothing else.
Prodigy
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thoth foc
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't think a respectful "good fight" implies the fight was fair.
I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa. If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
If others wanted to do for PR sake, i wouldnt crtic them for it.. but personnally i prefer to say it only when i really mean it.. for me, it then shows proper respect when it's earned..
>: ) |
Nira Li
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Prodigy Z Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that BOB is looking for a good fight. I personally donĘt think they are. I think they want only the fight where they can obliterate their opponent. If there was a BOB obliteration the propaganda machine would crank up and tell of horrible lag or how ASCN crashed the server. The bottom line is that I donĘt think that BOB can tell a fair and accurate story, every communication is meant to bolster their own personal image and nothing else.
Prodigy
You suck and we are better then you.
Oh and you are wrong!
You Will Cry My Name
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EleKtra Ventura
Trading Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: EleKtra Ventura on 20/11/2006 19:43:52 Edited by: EleKtra Ventura on 20/11/2006 19:43:38 BoB have great leaders who post very little, Leaders win wars.
The more vocal group of BoB(i.e the guys you see/read on the forums....every single day) are the same to any eve player, They can point and click on there mouse when told too nothing else.
You shouldnt judge BoB on these guys, There leaders should gain great respect for keeping those ego's in check to achieve what many in eve cannot
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Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: EleKtra Ventura
BoB have great leaders who post very little..
Your being sarcastic right? ------------
All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:03:00 -
[25]
I don`t think he/she was... ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
INZi
coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:11:00 -
[26]
chest beating's 4tl. and that will become one certain alliances death one day.
humbleness's the key. gain and give respect.
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Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't think a respectful "good fight" implies the fight was fair.
I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa. If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
Your post is wrong on many different levels. First of all Bob always calls it "gf" when there actually was a good fight. Ascn so far hasnt brought it often enough, why lie ? Respect isnt born from lying in your opponents face to make him feel better but from a good competition and sportsmanship.
Then let us not forget what kind of ill feelings were born in this war where bob members have been called "names", were accused of exploits, rl crimes, beeing gms and insulted. You think that is a fertile ground for respect ?
Last but not least youre talking about "respect" alot, respect is something between 2 groups which develops on the battlefield not on the forums. You cant demand respect nor "would it be nice if they gave respect to X". If Bob has no respect for Ascn after this conflict its sad but the way life goes. I guess its partly the fault of ascn. However noone apart from the 2 involved parties can really stick their nose in and debate wheter or not respect needs to be given simply because he/she isnt involved and doesnt know all details, hasnt participated in all fights etc.
In short, most ppls view on BoB wont change after the fight because they will either still hate them or still praise them no matter if Ascn is in the end respected by bob or not.
Conclusion: This thread is a pure waste and only there for the naysayers venting abit anger because they couldnt or wont stick it to bob ingame and are dissappointed Ascn get the stick.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:13:00 -
[28]
My impression of BoB has gone down significantly since the start of the ASCN war.
They always had big points for being top quality PVPers, but they have lost even more points for smacking and being bad winners.
The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner. ~ ~ ~
Originally by: The Knight True, in fact...I think it was during the battle of the bulge when we first realized the Germans were using WCS. |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:17:00 -
[29]
Kcel, that`s all cool and all, but it`s not as the BoB members are saints and ASCN started it all by calling them names.
Aside of that issue, this thread is about a complete different thing (even though the OP should have left the ASCN and BoB names out of it) ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Synapse Archae My impression of BoB has gone down significantly since the start of the ASCN war.
They always had big points for being top quality PVPers, but they have lost even more points for smacking and being bad winners.
The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner.
Bob never claimed to be "everyones buddy". They like the villian and badarse image. So why would they try to be nice and all friendly ? Especially if it is most of the time just played friendlyness (like so many times best friends in eve were backstabbed, robbed or dropped in the appearance of a better deal). BoB have clear standings and pointed out multiple times that they shoot everyone who is neutral. Their posts/threads on this forum are just informative for whoever wants to read them (similar to any other post or thread started). They present bobs view and everyone but the most naiv person knows that everything said on these forums has to be taken with a grain of salt. Hence in theory PR on eve-o cannot work unless "the receiving person" allows it to work. As many other guys pointed out Eve is a game. In a game you can be a bad guy without remorse. For some ppl "beeing mr niceguy" means "look i can do that irl". However there have been in bobs fighting history many occasions they gave credit, be it to G, Iron, Fix, Kia, CA or in the GNW. That Ascn doesnt fit into that league might have many reasons, make up your own conclusions but i personally think "combatpower", "bad leadership" and "demonizing moralblogs" would be 3 reasons coming to my mind.
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