Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Drusus Rensus
Gallente Klima Galactic
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 20/11/2006 17:39:01 Over the past couple of months we've been treated to quite a few threads from BoB that are some combination of:
a) Touting their successes in the war b) Ridiculing ASCN and ASCN command's failures in the war c) Ridiculing things that have been written on ASCN's private forums d) Telling ASCN membership that their leaders suck, and that defeat is inevitable, and that they should just give up and leave.
Whether you view these as organized, calculated "propaganda" or not, they are most certainly meant for public consumption (otherwise they'd be in eve-mails). So, my question is what, if any, effect have they had on your opinion of BoB?
Please reply with a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" or "don't care" and a brief explaination of why if you'd like. Obviously this thread is aimed at parties not directly involved in the conflict (i.e. not BoB, ASCN, or their allies). Of course, I can't keep involved parties from posting if they want to, but I'm more interested in what third parties are thinking of these posts.
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus
d) Telling ASCN membership that their leaders suck, and that defeat is inevitable, and that they should just give up and leave.
I'm not sure this is the correct message you've perceived, ASCN are still over 4k memebers, they still have many rich players and corps.. they can still field 100+ fleets.. defeat is only inevitable if they continue to believe HC's "honestly everything will be alrite in the end" messages and dont shape up and start fighting back..
Originally by: Drusus Rensus
Obviously this thread is aimed at parties not directly involved in the conflict
If you want to restrict groups from answering, i suggest not naming them, and passing you own opinions are being theirs
>: ) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/11/2006 17:51:00
I'm saddened by the lack of "good fight" posts by BoB. While some other alliances are worse (see AAA's Evil Thug denounce "good fight" posts as stupid carebearing "flower picking"), they should at least some of the time post a simple, plain "good fight" like many other alliances do. Even AAA was quite friendly with us on the forums after our massive 28-hour battle in ED-L9T, both sides congratulating the other on a good fight. BoB seems to rarely do this, at least not with any sort of official announcement.
However, I think the primary purpose of the "propaganda" is out of sheer desperation. They want a good fight, and unfortunately due to ASCN's preferring hit-and-run to direct-fleet-combat, they have been unable to get one. This isn't working against them in the war--if anything it is helping them--but its probably boring them.
I don't think any of it has improved my opinion of BoB in any real way.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:49:00 -
[4]
Getting sick of them all tbh. D2 has conquered way more space than bob yet you dont see 50 threads for each war, ok theres usually one but thats about it, and that is never started by d2 high command with the intent of making the enemy look stupid, unlike most of the current ones in this section of the forums. Its not always bad, i do like to see pics/vids of the fights i wasnt near but the usual epeen waving and ridiculing is getting pretty tiresome for me, and the rest of eve id imagination.
*Thumbs down :( less epeen more piccys!!!
------------
All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:51:00 -
[5]
A lot of it is rubbish and quite easy to see if you ahve half a brain. But there is the odd quote or comment in those threads that really drives home how much ASCN suck. The thing with not using the titan until KALI, just defies belief. Cyvok's one hour rant/audio blog does not sound like someone capable of leading a 4k man alliance in this war.
|
Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:57:00 -
[6]
As long as they keep up posts like:
Quote: As I'm sure you will enjoy my clammy hand up your lint covered innards, when I use you in my muppet themed re-enactment of this war next year.
I'm all cheerleading for em.
Seriously, propaganda or not, I keep getting myself drawn towards this forum to pick up little gems like that.
|
maarud
Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:58:00 -
[7]
Most of what comes in here now days it pure and utter smack and it's quite depressing, just when we had got rid of the goons alt smacking, we have to now deal with this.
I'd love it if there we decient posts detailing detailing battles with the outcomes, but whats being posted generally boils down to "we pwn, you guys suck, omglol, go home, give us your stuffs".
maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Weebear
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:10:00 -
[8]
I'll put myself in the "Don't Care" category, sometimes the posts from BoB HC can be a fun read sometimes they are just pointless excuses to make a post. Some of their members can post sensibly, others can't. This is as true for BoB as it is for any other alliance out there.
The key is to recognise people who regularly post sense to the ones who don't, and ignore the ones who don't (or the other way round depending on what you are looking for out the forums!). Don't let one group of posters dictate what you think of any one alliance, make up your own mind. |
Erikel
Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:10:00 -
[9]
Thumbs down.
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:14:00 -
[10]
its a clear attempt to demoralize ASCN the best thing other alliances can do is crowd out BOB with their own unrelated threads we need more smaller corps making annoucements - good to see BE making some noise tho
|
|
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:29:00 -
[11]
the problem bob has is that with all the posts and spamming almost everyone reading these forums know that 99.9% is just crap and nonsense. bob posts to much for anyone to actually take them seriously.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Ruato
Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:35:00 -
[12]
What i dont like about this 'BoB Propaganda' is that they are filling every ascn/bob thread with useless crap.
I'm not involved in this conflict at all, but i'm quite interested how things go in battlefield. And its impossible to get any reliable info from these forums because BoB's is filling every thread with self centered junk.
Basically signal/noise ratio is pretty **** poor in every thread because of bob players. --- Get rid of those *bleep*ing secure containers. *bleep*! |
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xendie the problem bob has is that with all the posts and spamming almost everyone reading these forums know that 99.9% is just crap and nonsense. bob posts to much for anyone to actually take them seriously.
There is always a limits to which games or the persona's within should be taken seriously.
>: ) |
maarud
Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:38:00 -
[14]
Personally I'd like seleene to be there for every big battle and she can post a seperate battle report, which I think most people would go straight to and skip the BoB propaganda post battle report.
Lets vote now!
maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Pepperami
Art of War Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:40:00 -
[15]
I try not to read them, I enjoy reading entertaining smack, but most bob/ascn threads are pretty pathetic on that front, it keeps getting personal.
|
Edheler
Quintessential Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I'm saddened by the lack of "good fight" posts by BoB.
Originally by: Dark Shikari [some others do, some call it names]
If these truths can be held as self evident:
1) There are basically two camps in EVE, those who say "it's just a game" and those who say "yes, but..." 2) Most combat in EVE is ganking or being ganked. Very little combat occurs between reasonably well matched gangs.
Respect can be earned when the situation isn't ridiculous for one side or another. The other times, the only thing that builds between the entities is resentment. Since EVE is "just a game" people might get ****ed because another group prevents them from achieving their goals. This is where the "yes, but..." folks come into play.
Try to balance the respect and resentment and what do you get? The huge disaster which is EVE 0.0 politics. It's very, very similar to the way that high school cliques worked if you take a few steps back and look at it objectively.
As to BoB, I think someone has to give them a good fight for them to actually respect it. I would guess that hasn't actually happened much in the ASCN war. Sometimes respect can be had after a war, as in "You fought with everything you had and really gave it your all." However that is a much different kind of respect from respecting a single fight.
Why does BoB win at what they do: teamwork. If you look closely it's what MC does right as well. Everyone works towards the same goals. Nearly all other alliances are just random conglomerations of corporations with different goals going in different directions: the ego is greater than the team. With BoB and MC they are enlightened enough to know: the team is greater than the ego. They prove it to EVE nearly every day, I really do wonder why most of EVE seems so blind to this. (P.S. It's also the reason why you have never seen a mass assault of BoB. Each individual entity wants to be the one who "took down BoB" and thus none will team up with others.)
I doubt that any entity in EVE will displace BoB short of a significant fraction of BoB deciding to quit EVE.
Edheler Quintessential CEO
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Edheler As to BoB, I think someone has to give them a good fight for them to actually respect it. I would guess that hasn't actually happened much in the ASCN war. Sometimes respect can be had after a war, as in "You fought with everything you had and really gave it your all." However that is a much different kind of respect from respecting a single fight.
I don't think a respectful "good fight" implies the fight was fair.
I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa. If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus have they had on your opinion of BoB?
Tarnished it somewhat.
In my image BoB (+MC) is the dominant alliance force in the game currently; I have quite deal of respect to those people who lead and/or made it such force.
I think both parties would have a more enjoyable war in the game if it was not, in part, spoiled by propaganda attempts at morale, spies and espionage in general.
That is, if they (BoB) can afford to keep the game more enjoyable for all parties, it would worth the effort.
-Lasse Who, consequently, has little respect to those who choose to join the 'top dogs' of the game
|
Edheler
Quintessential Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa.
Good for you then, sadly I know very few pilots who act this way consistently though.
Originally by: Dark Shikari If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
Here is the crux of the difference between the "it's just a game" and "yes, but..." crowd. In that chess game how much would you have invested in the outcome? How would you feel if you bet a significant chunk of currency on it? How about if you had trained for months for the match? Or how about someone came into your "house" put down the chess board and said "win or get the heck out of my house." Game in the classical definition does not encompass EVE very well. Most players have too much invested.
The only comparisons I have come up with which seem to get the level of intensity right are "games" between professional sports teams.
Originally by: Dark Shikari I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
I am not sure that any mere words could really change most of EVE's position on BoB today.
Edheler Quintessential CEO
|
Prodigy Z
ZiTek Prime Orbital Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:18:00 -
[20]
Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that BOB is looking for a good fight. I personally donĘt think they are. I think they want only the fight where they can obliterate their opponent. If there was a BOB obliteration the propaganda machine would crank up and tell of horrible lag or how ASCN crashed the server. The bottom line is that I donĘt think that BOB can tell a fair and accurate story, every communication is meant to bolster their own personal image and nothing else.
Prodigy
|
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't think a respectful "good fight" implies the fight was fair.
I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa. If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
If others wanted to do for PR sake, i wouldnt crtic them for it.. but personnally i prefer to say it only when i really mean it.. for me, it then shows proper respect when it's earned..
>: ) |
Nira Li
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Prodigy Z Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that BOB is looking for a good fight. I personally donĘt think they are. I think they want only the fight where they can obliterate their opponent. If there was a BOB obliteration the propaganda machine would crank up and tell of horrible lag or how ASCN crashed the server. The bottom line is that I donĘt think that BOB can tell a fair and accurate story, every communication is meant to bolster their own personal image and nothing else.
Prodigy
You suck and we are better then you.
Oh and you are wrong!
You Will Cry My Name
|
EleKtra Ventura
Trading Solutions
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: EleKtra Ventura on 20/11/2006 19:43:52 Edited by: EleKtra Ventura on 20/11/2006 19:43:38 BoB have great leaders who post very little, Leaders win wars.
The more vocal group of BoB(i.e the guys you see/read on the forums....every single day) are the same to any eve player, They can point and click on there mouse when told too nothing else.
You shouldnt judge BoB on these guys, There leaders should gain great respect for keeping those ego's in check to achieve what many in eve cannot
|
Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: EleKtra Ventura
BoB have great leaders who post very little..
Your being sarcastic right? ------------
All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:03:00 -
[25]
I don`t think he/she was... ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
INZi
coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:11:00 -
[26]
chest beating's 4tl. and that will become one certain alliances death one day.
humbleness's the key. gain and give respect.
|
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't think a respectful "good fight" implies the fight was fair.
I've said "GF" even after being jumped by a blob, or vice versa. If I played a grandmaster in chess and got owned, I would still say "good game."
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
Your post is wrong on many different levels. First of all Bob always calls it "gf" when there actually was a good fight. Ascn so far hasnt brought it often enough, why lie ? Respect isnt born from lying in your opponents face to make him feel better but from a good competition and sportsmanship.
Then let us not forget what kind of ill feelings were born in this war where bob members have been called "names", were accused of exploits, rl crimes, beeing gms and insulted. You think that is a fertile ground for respect ?
Last but not least youre talking about "respect" alot, respect is something between 2 groups which develops on the battlefield not on the forums. You cant demand respect nor "would it be nice if they gave respect to X". If Bob has no respect for Ascn after this conflict its sad but the way life goes. I guess its partly the fault of ascn. However noone apart from the 2 involved parties can really stick their nose in and debate wheter or not respect needs to be given simply because he/she isnt involved and doesnt know all details, hasnt participated in all fights etc.
In short, most ppls view on BoB wont change after the fight because they will either still hate them or still praise them no matter if Ascn is in the end respected by bob or not.
Conclusion: This thread is a pure waste and only there for the naysayers venting abit anger because they couldnt or wont stick it to bob ingame and are dissappointed Ascn get the stick.
|
Synapse Archae
Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:13:00 -
[28]
My impression of BoB has gone down significantly since the start of the ASCN war.
They always had big points for being top quality PVPers, but they have lost even more points for smacking and being bad winners.
The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner. ~ ~ ~
Originally by: The Knight True, in fact...I think it was during the battle of the bulge when we first realized the Germans were using WCS. |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:17:00 -
[29]
Kcel, that`s all cool and all, but it`s not as the BoB members are saints and ASCN started it all by calling them names.
Aside of that issue, this thread is about a complete different thing (even though the OP should have left the ASCN and BoB names out of it) ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Synapse Archae My impression of BoB has gone down significantly since the start of the ASCN war.
They always had big points for being top quality PVPers, but they have lost even more points for smacking and being bad winners.
The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner.
Bob never claimed to be "everyones buddy". They like the villian and badarse image. So why would they try to be nice and all friendly ? Especially if it is most of the time just played friendlyness (like so many times best friends in eve were backstabbed, robbed or dropped in the appearance of a better deal). BoB have clear standings and pointed out multiple times that they shoot everyone who is neutral. Their posts/threads on this forum are just informative for whoever wants to read them (similar to any other post or thread started). They present bobs view and everyone but the most naiv person knows that everything said on these forums has to be taken with a grain of salt. Hence in theory PR on eve-o cannot work unless "the receiving person" allows it to work. As many other guys pointed out Eve is a game. In a game you can be a bad guy without remorse. For some ppl "beeing mr niceguy" means "look i can do that irl". However there have been in bobs fighting history many occasions they gave credit, be it to G, Iron, Fix, Kia, CA or in the GNW. That Ascn doesnt fit into that league might have many reasons, make up your own conclusions but i personally think "combatpower", "bad leadership" and "demonizing moralblogs" would be 3 reasons coming to my mind.
|
|
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rikeka Kcel, that`s all cool and all, but it`s not as the BoB members are saints and ASCN started it all by calling them names.
Aside of that issue, this thread is about a complete different thing (even though the OP should have left the ASCN and BoB names out of it)
If youre aiming at the Propaganda bit of the op, these boards are for announcements, press releases and chestbeating. They have always been, were in CA days, were in 5. days and were in the coalition vs RA war. Why should it be any different for Bob vs Ascn ? Every post not agreeing 100% with your own opinion can be seen as "hostile pr" because it gives food of thought no matter if its by objective results, baseless lies and accusations or some well written prose text. You really think Seleene does those Battlereports without thinking about the possible effect on future customers ? You really think BE do their threads without the desired effect to get into the spotlight by winding ppl up ? You really think Celest announces their Fountain plans without the hope to get isk and manpower out of it ? You really think Kiaeddz posts about teaming up or hiring mercs against BoB without having a business deal for Kia in his mind ? Every post on this forum is motivated. Some more obvious then others but in the end every post is in its own way "PR".
|
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:28:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Rikeka on 20/11/2006 20:28:09
Quote: Their posts/threads on this forum are just informative for whoever wants to read them (similar to any other post or thread started). They present bobs view and everyone but the most naiv person knows that everything said on these forums has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Guessing here, but I think that is what the OP was asking on the first place. The rest is of no need. ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
ProphetGuru
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:30:00 -
[33]
Our posts serve their purpose.
ASCN, like any alliance we turn our gaze towards, are merely puppets at the end of our strings, dancing to a tune of our devising.
To the masses, respect isin't earned or lost on the forums. Respect is a byproduct of power, and we have the power to make anyone have a miserable day, in any aspect of the game, at any time of our choosing.... and their really isin't a **** thing that you or anyone else can do about it.
Humbely,
PG
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:32:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Rikeka on 20/11/2006 20:33:07 A æmiserableæ day because of a game?
Kcel, what I ment is on my above post. ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
ProphetGuru
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rikeka A æmiserableæ day because of a game?
"miserable day, in any aspect of the game."
Reading 4tw?
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:37:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Rikeka on 20/11/2006 20:40:16 What I said still stands, I ment how can you make someone miserable?
[EDIT] In fact, if I were you, I would have first stated the where and when of the sentence and later the action/verbe, but I guess it looks nicer your way. ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Rikeka Edited by: Rikeka on 20/11/2006 20:33:07 A æmiserableæ day because of a game?
Kcel, what I ment is on my above post.
the op is asking for the typical bandwagoneering. 4 kind of ppl will reply. -Bob allies saying "bob are doing fine nps". -Ascn + allies saying "omg bob lost all my respect" -BoB fanbois saying "omg im shocked but it was to be exspected" -random "uninvolved" alt saying "i respected to soo much but now my world is in ruins and if i could i would help ascn but im neutral, honestly".
As i said ppls opinion is predetermined and even if a bunch of guys changed their mind (be it either way) i honestly doubt bob gives a **** since they play their game regardless of what ppl think of them.
|
Cedart
Gallente Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:41:00 -
[38]
Well, i respect what BoB have archieved in this game, and i dont really lose that respect simply because some of the members post smack on the forums or leaders post some not so well thought of propaganda posts. That said, i do find some of the posts frankly foolish, especially some of the weekly "war reports".
They would be (imo) a lot more effective if they concentrated more on facts (systems taken, battles fought, etc.) and less to gloating about statements or stated objectives of ASCN HC and how these objectives failed. Especially as these objectives are not posted here by ASCN.
I dont really have problem about BoB posting statements here from ASCN boards, but often when reading these posts i feel like the poster is insulting my intelligence. I can spot childish ravings of someone that really has no clue, or that takes the game too seriously just fine without someone gloatingly pointing that out word by word. If you really need to reject these claims(and most seem to be too stupid to actually need rejecting), simply point out why they are wrong, ridiculing or calling the claimant names doesn't really help.
|
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:43:00 -
[39]
Kcel, you got me wrong. I agree with what you said on your post (the 31). I even agree somewhat with your previous posts, but what I quoted from you before is I think what the OP was asking (to which I agree too) ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:46:00 -
[40]
"Bob never claimed to be "everyones buddy". They like the villian and badarse image. So why would they try to be nice and all friendly"
Badass image, ok i get that, but boring everyone to death with the same propoganda posts doesnt project this image does it? And yes your right, not just bob is guilty of it but 9/10 it is bob, sure be/kia/etc do similar but not for every single fleet movement that might have happened.
As 'for respect isnt won on the forums' i dont really agree with that either because as shown by this and many other posts; people are starting to lose respect because of the continual dribble displayed on here daily.
Power? maybe.. or maybe you just shout about it more than everyone else. In my humble opinion propoganda posts are worse than smack, at least pointless smack was amusing instead of horribly static and neverending. My two cents :P (insert omg ur wrong auto-flame below) ------------
All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
|
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ceratin "Bob never claimed to be "everyones buddy". They like the villian and badarse image. So why would they try to be nice and all friendly"
Badass image, ok i get that, but boring everyone to death with the same propoganda posts doesnt project this image does it? And yes your right, not just bob is guilty of it but 9/10 it is bob, sure be/kia/etc do similar but not for every single fleet movement that might have happened.
As 'for respect isnt won on the forums' i dont really agree with that either because as shown by this and many other posts; people are starting to lose respect because of the continual dribble displayed on here daily.
Power? maybe.. or maybe you just shout about it more than everyone else. In my humble opinion propoganda posts are worse than smack, at least pointless smack was amusing instead of horribly static and neverending. My two cents :P (insert omg ur wrong auto-flame below)
So 10 threads in 6 or 7 weeks is 9/10 ? Seems these forums are hugely dull then and i didnt see it yet ?
With regard to the respect thing, it comes from actually fighting and dying ingame not from reading a post by a person who usually plays no role in an alliance. CA and SA had their flamefests and still in the end earned respect. Votf and Atuk hated each other ingame and still formed an agreement etc etc. Politics are played in eve outside of the forums and by the topdogs. A grunt gets told who is "good" and who is "bad" in most major alliances. He can silently agree disagree or leave.
|
Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:52:00 -
[42]
Originally by: ProphetGuru ASCN, like any alliance we turn our gaze towards, are merely puppets at the end of our strings, dancing to a tune of our devising.
Demonstration why you, as an alliance, deserve a 'thumbs down'. Arrogant people are more than often ill-mannered immature idiots.
I first met BoB during the GNW and was litteraly appaled by the trash-talking. My first PvP experience coming from Ultima Online back in 1997, I've had my share of smacktards, but BoB brought it to unsuspected levels.
After that, I had to re-examine that opinion when fighting BNC who proved worthy opponents but also respectable pilots. RKK also has many respectable players, which doesn't always show in DBPreacher behavior.
TBH, fighting BoB is rarely fun. They should learn where to draw the line between a game and the illusory self accomplishment in a virtual game.
It is true there is more to be built in EVE than in any other game and that the immersion factor can be somewhat overwhelming, but boy... some are pushing it a bit hard ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the backpipe, but who does not. |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Rikeka on 20/11/2006 21:00:23 You are all wrong, in fact. This is a game, it has nothing to do with respect. Do I respect someone who has beaten me (or anyone) solely because he has more SP, a bigger ship, more numbers? There is no such thing as respect on this game. Respect to what? An avatar of 300 bytes? A logo?
(this goes to anyone/anything of virtual procedence)
It`s not fear, either. Fear of what? Losing ISK? Clones? SP? Err... space (****, I lost a region, that`s 3 cm of the F10 button!)
As long as one fully understands this is a game, a low priority on every day scheme of things (5th mine, after GF, work, soccer, and rugby)
[EDIT] My GF says EvE is her close 2nd priority (BF, EvE, work, POTBS beta, and her Spellsinger 76th lvl) ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:59:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kcel Chim With regard to the respect thing, it comes from actually fighting and dying ingame not from reading a post..
So basically your saying more respect comes from an imaginary space game than the written thoughts/attitudes of a real person? sounds abit silly when you think about it doesnt it?
------------
All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:03:00 -
[45]
Weirdest thing of all, I think quite the opposite thing: I give much more credit to someone that knows how to write a GOOD post. Even more credit when he does this on a different language of his own. ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ceratin
Originally by: Kcel Chim With regard to the respect thing, it comes from actually fighting and dying ingame not from reading a post..
So basically your saying more respect comes from an imaginary space game than the written thoughts/attitudes of a real person? sounds abit silly when you think about it doesnt it?
Stop dragging real life into it.
|
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ceratin
Originally by: Kcel Chim With regard to the respect thing, it comes from actually fighting and dying ingame not from reading a post..
So basically your saying more respect comes from an imaginary space game than the written thoughts/attitudes of a real person? sounds abit silly when you think about it doesnt it?
The ppl playing and competing in this imaginary space game are as real as the ppl writing their thoughts and attitudes.
If i play a pirate and act evil i can lead a christian social club irl without any affiliation. I can smack on the forums even if i want to. Welcome to the world of ---> Roleplaying <--- Games. Online earned respect is completely artificial and worth not even the seconds it takes to read it. Ingame it has a meaning but for me and for most other ppl playing this game im drawing a fine line between the avatar and the person behind it. In short even if i hate and despise your avatar to the deepest i personally dont know jack about you "irl" or your rl persona and to draw any conclusions from your online apperance usually leads to someone looking like a dumbass.
Reputation is important in eve but the reputation is linked to your avatar. Since most ppl dont play "themself" online but a pilot of a cooperation in an imaginatory online space game who pew pews stuff with his virtual spacecraft and "kills" other guys without ever commiting a rl crime. Wonderfull innit ?
|
Ghitza
Backup Squad
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:12:00 -
[48]
Propaganda is part of war. But sad ppl who cant use their own minds... Every propaganda thread is good comedy to read. Victory dosent need shouting on forums.
|
Spike Larosse
RSP Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Synapse Archae My impression of BoB has gone down significantly since the start of the ASCN war.
They always had big points for being top quality PVPers, but they have lost even more points for smacking and being bad winners.
The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner.
Have to agree here. I'm not particularly fond of forum wars and warriors, no matter who they belong to. ------------------------------------------------ -RSP- |
Ceratin
ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:21:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Ceratin on 20/11/2006 21:21:40
Quote: "Online earned respect is completely artificial and worth not even the seconds it takes to read it"
Well you said it, on this basis theres no more need for anymore of these posts im sure. Save the rest of eve from death via boredom; post some nice battle reports with piccys/vids but leave the retoric out because quite frankly no-one cares anymore ------------
All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
|
Fassin Zakalwe
Amarr BlueTuba
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:28:00 -
[51]
Aye, they could have let their battlefield successes speak for themselves, but instead they have bled respect for - as a previous poster said - being bad winners.
As an ATUK member in a past life I started off broadly positive, now I find myself scoffing when reading posts such as "BoB is the most respected alliance" by BoB members fawning over each other. - Ooooomph! |
Amon 'Chakai
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:30:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 20/11/2006 17:39:01 Over the past couple of months we've been treated to quite a few threads from BoB that are some combination of:
a) Touting their successes in the war b) Ridiculing ASCN and ASCN command's failures in the war c) Ridiculing things that have been written on ASCN's private forums d) Telling ASCN membership that their leaders suck, and that defeat is inevitable, and that they should just give up and leave.
Whether you view these as organized, calculated "propaganda" or not, they are most certainly meant for public consumption (otherwise they'd be in eve-mails). So, my question is what, if any, effect have they had on your opinion of BoB?
Please reply with a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" or "don't care" and a brief explaination of why if you'd like. Obviously this thread is aimed at parties not directly involved in the conflict (i.e. not BoB, ASCN, or their allies). Of course, I can't keep involved parties from posting if they want to, but I'm more interested in what third parties are thinking of these posts.
Been there, played the same propaganda game in other games..
It works thou bob's actions are bit too obvious but that's prolly because normal members like to spin the propaganda war aswell.. if it would be just leaders posting now and then it would be more efficient, now it's a tradition what bob's do always.. and only a complete *gues what* believes they'r just "facts" without the extra what gives the facts a certain meaning. ??====??====??====??====??====??====??====??====??==?? If eve even makes close up to 60-70k+ dollars per day as budget.. they could throw about 140k-300k easily to hardware upgrade once per year.
|
ponieus
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ghitza Propaganda is part of war. But sad ppl who cant use their own minds... Every propaganda thread is good comedy to read. Victory dosent need shouting on forums.
But its enteraining right?
Propaganda is what it is.
I for one thinks its good thing to have. Adds excitment and drama to a war that only 2 entites are fighting in. Propaganda is there to let all those Not involved whats going on, what has happend, and what will happen.
Take it for whats its worth.
Fact is BoB is giving this forum something it was crying for since the ALT ban. Drama. You know you love it. You know you love to hate it. We are simply giving you what you want. Just not how you want it. Its our decision on how we say it. Ohh yeah thats propaganda. ----------------------------------------------- ok ok
|
Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:37:00 -
[54]
Quote: You are all wrong, in fact. This is a game, it has nothing to do with respect. Do I respect someone who has beaten me (or anyone) solely because he has more SP, a bigger ship, more numbers? There is no such thing as respect on this game. Respect to what? An avatar of 300 bytes? A logo?
You must be fun to have you around playing a tabletop game or a sport-match. Do you respect the guy that just beat you at a game of chess or just scored the winning goal in a footy match? Hell no, just a game....
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:01:00 -
[55]
I can see why people think BoB abuse the forums, but I'm not sure the perception is more than a carefully crafted mirage.
You see, BoB trusts and respects its members. It doesn't feel the need to gag them, or to punish them from voicing their opinions. Each individual has the right to give their views, because whilst we all have common goals and interests, we are still all different people, and valued as such. With that freedom comes certain responsibility. We know that our posts can reflect on our alliance, and ourselves, and yet we are still able to express our honest thoughts and feelings. With that in mind, think about exactly what complaints are leveled against us.
We seem to speak with one voice, making the same points. Either it is an amazingly well put together campaign, or we are telling it as we see it. I know BoB are a conspiracy theorists ideal subject, but if you seriously think you could force some of Eve's biggest egos in to such a campaign, then I think you fail to understand exactly what the membership of BoB is really like.
What is written off as smack and propoganda is the truth. It is an uncomfortable truth for ASCN because HC does not want its lies and failures to be exposed to their general membership. It is easier for them to attack the sources and style of the posts against them than it is to refute the content.
Now, I am personally frustrated that any leadership can show such little respect to their members. Worse, many of those members want to believe the story they are spun, even though they know it isn't genuine, because they would rather die deluded than fight against despair. However, there are plenty of ASCN who are able to see through the propoganda that is inflicted upon them, not by BoB but by their own HC, and they really are the true hope for ASCN. If they can find courage and a voice then all is not lost for them.
So, where am I going with this?
Well, ASCN HC want you, dear reader, to ignore the content of our posts because they can't handle the truth, and they fear even more what their members would make of honesty. In order to assist with this defence mechanism, ASCN have focused very much on emotive and controversial side-aspects of those posts, hoping that people would not notice them avoiding to address the real issues.
What we get is: BoB hacked our forums. BoB hacked our TS BoB crash nodes BoB are GM's / Devs BoB cheat BoB are rubish because they have only deprived of one region..!
That is propoganda.
ASCN HC feel the need to manipiulate the opinion of the general public, and their own members, in order to maintain the illusion of control and ability.
Who exactly are BoB trying to manipulate with their posts? When does truth become propoganda?
Our truth may be uncomfortable, but surely it is more acceptable than ASCN's lies?
Currently the most successful propoganda on these forums is ASCN's anti-propoganda propoganda, and I am frankly surprised how many of you have been taken in by it.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
NeoTech
Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:15:00 -
[56]
so, after a pretty clean thread on page 2. BoB warriors finally take action? Putting yet ANOTHER HUGE post of ASCN HC Ranting into it.. ohh the irony!
Thank you BoB... there went my last respect for u down the drain.
<3 GL.
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: NeoTech so, after a pretty clean thread on page 2. BoB warriors finally take action? Putting yet ANOTHER HUGE post of ASCN HC Ranting into it.. ohh the irony!
Thank you BoB... there went my last respect for u down the drain.
<3 GL.
Thank you for so clearly making my point.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Ronja Mistysdottir
Norsk Gruvedrift
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:25:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ronja Mistysdottir on 20/11/2006 22:25:43 Posting anything from someones internal boards on Eve-Online breaks Copyright rules of atleast the United States and any country in the European Union.
CCP servers are in the UK, I think, and therefore, regulated via laws, that makes it illigal to make public, any copyrighted documents. (EC regulations of copyrighted materials.. (Pirate Bay anyone?)
I think CCP should do they're duty, and report copyright offenders. Spreading copyrighted material are a crime, and offenders should be punnished to the full extent of the law.
*bow*
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:26:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ronja Mistysdottir Posting anything from someones internal boards on Eve-Online breaks Copyright rules of atleast the United States and any country in the European Union.
CCP servers are in the UK, I think, and therefore, regulated via laws, that makes it illigal to make public, any copyrighted documents.
I think CCP should do they're duty, and report copyright offenders. Spreading copyrighted material are a crime, and offenders should be punnished to the full extent of the law.
*bow*
Interesting view, but sadly untrue.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Mirirar
Caldari Solstice Systems Development Concourse
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Shin Ra Cyvok's one hour rant/audio blog does not sound like someone capable of leading a 4k man alliance in this war.
Linkage? Please?
|
|
Emrod
Amarr Legion Du Lys Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:45:00 -
[61]
Propaganda its just a weapon like other in a war...
Its doesnt matter if its effective or not because the real place where a war its play its on the battlefield....The winner of this war gonna write its own history of the battle anyways, like in all human war!
ASCN stop trying to find if Bob are rigth or not to do those forum war...figth them in space! If your leader are REALLY not good to lead you...dont give up for that because if you really want to defend your region and you want stand against Bob to save ASCN ,then do it or surrender if not!
I respect Bob because they figth in your face and prove their strengh and their will to win...its time to you to stop crying and stop trying to find what is bad or not in their propaganda or other useless thing like that!
Win its the purpose in all war...do it or die!
|
Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:48:00 -
[62]
I was going to make a long-winded post, but then Dark Shikari said everything I wanted to say, only better. So I guess I'll just parrot him and note that this smack isn't really helping anything, just hurting it. BoB can be saints if they want to be, and I think we're all disappointed that instead they come off as trying to belittle so many people for their own desires.
Perhaps it's best if the rumors are true that BoB will be retiring soon. They would be missed as PvPers, but I doubt many would miss them as people. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Drusus Rensus
Gallente Klima Galactic
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:54:00 -
[63]
I appreciate the replys. More than anything else, I posted this out of my own curiosity about how the eve community in general viewed these posts. It gives me a better idea about who I'll be playing this game with.
For my own part, I'd have to put myself in a category I didn't list, which is "don't know", mostly because I've only been observing for a relatively short time. A lot of these posts strike me personally as just over-the-top arrogant and mean-spirited. I can't tell whether the posters are just playing over-the-top arrogant and mean-spirited, or whether they actually ARE over-the-top arrogant and mean-spirited. If it's the former, hey, cool, it's part of what makes roleplaying games fun. If it's the latter, they are, in my opinion, the kind of folks who make just about any game less fun than it could have been.
The above is my opinion just based on what I know of BoB from these forums. I'm not far enough into the game to have had much experience with them in-game. Whether what they posted is "the truth" or not, isn't particularly relevant to the question I asked, which was about how they are posting what they are posting (the tone of their posts) is effecting the opinions of others in the game about them.
For me the jury is still out. I'll just keep reading along.
|
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:55:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Nira Li
Originally by: Prodigy Z Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that BOB is looking for a good fight. I personally donĘt think they are. I think they want only the fight where they can obliterate their opponent. If there was a BOB obliteration the propaganda machine would crank up and tell of horrible lag or how ASCN crashed the server. The bottom line is that I donĘt think that BOB can tell a fair and accurate story, every communication is meant to bolster their own personal image and nothing else.
Prodigy
You suck and we are better then you.
Oh and you are wrong!
If you wanted good fights, you wouldn't use TS spies.
But you do, so that makes you a bunch of lamers looking for easy wins. What you do is like wallhacking in CS, but I guess you know all about that too
|
Banedon Runestar
Gallente Blue Star Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:01:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Banedon Runestar on 20/11/2006 23:04:35 To be honest I find the e-peen contests in the BoB/ASCN thread to be rather stupid. There is a difference between smack talk and just out and out being mean. Most, alright ALL, of the BoB/ASCN threads devolve into people screaming about who's lying, who's hacking, who's cheating, who sucks harder, who's being decieved, who's hopped up on goofballs, blah, blah, blah.
I don't give a ****. I've stopped reading more then the OP and the next two or three comments because it's just a flamewar after that. I take the OP with a grain of salt since everyone is trying to spin things but there is no reasoned counter argument, it's just torrents of diatribe and vitrol and bile. It's no fun to read.
If there were little war journals like say the Star Fraction vs. the Directive in Mito, that would be an outstanding read. I LOVE reading those little war journals. Maybe with operations on the scale that ASCN and BoB work on it's impractical to do it quite so much detail but they make good reading. ----- Now if only my ! would disappear, I might be impressed. Four months and counting... |
Nev Clavain
Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:11:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Avon
We seem to speak with one voice, making the same points.
You seem to give yourself too much credit methinks. Some of you post intelligently, and answer the points at hand; and some of you post like frustrated and irritating teenagers with chips on their shoulders. The message is not consistent, other than it is generally demeaning.
Originally by: Avon
So, where am I going with this?
Beyond that point Avon, you were going off topic. Just because the subject is BoB propaganda doesn't mean we need some live examples. We have plenty of examples to leaf through. The thread is not about ASCN leadership and its alleged flaws in any sense, but nice attempt at a derail. If you would like to make a thread about ASCN propaganda as you see it, perhaps you should start your own?
So to refer directly to the original post, My opinion of BoB has been lowered considerably by the forum antics of the past few weeks. However to balance my position, my opinion of ASCN has also been lowered by their part in it all.
I don't believe there is some huge orchestrated campaign of propaganda, but there are certain threads posted where seeds are deliberately sown by certain people.
On the issue of respect being discussed, this is my opinion: respect is a mutual thing, you get respect by showing respect and vice versa. It has nothing to do with how hard you can beat someone or how hard they can beat you. It is a question of how one conducts themselves. In this regard, I believe very few prolific posters on either side of this war deserve the respect of the other. So the resultant 6+ page flames are hardly surprising.
|
scabbsssjr
Gallente M'8'S
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:16:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 20/11/2006 17:39:01 Over the past couple of months we've been treated to quite a few threads from BoB that are some combination of:
a) Touting their successes in the war b) Ridiculing ASCN and ASCN command's failures in the war c) Ridiculing things that have been written on ASCN's private forums d) Telling ASCN membership that their leaders suck, and that defeat is inevitable, and that they should just give up and leave.
Whether you view these as organized, calculated "propaganda" or not, they are most certainly meant for public consumption (otherwise they'd be in eve-mails). So, my question is what, if any, effect have they had on your opinion of BoB?
Please reply with a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" or "don't care" and a brief explaination of why if you'd like. Obviously this thread is aimed at parties not directly involved in the conflict (i.e. not BoB, ASCN, or their allies). Of course, I can't keep involved parties from posting if they want to, but I'm more interested in what third parties are thinking of these posts.
Dude. You do know BOB is not the only one that uses propganda? ASCN HC has over an hour of propaganda recorded. ASCN posts propganda for their troops. Cyvok even posted a bit of propganda were he called the titan "useless", but a day or two latert a BOB titan appeared in AZN killing 1 bs and some support.
Think about it, BOB makes all this propganda public (from both sides, it does help the most though), so its not all bad. If BOB hadn't been taking stuff off ASCN forums to spreed how many of us would have read them?
Why shouldn't BOB ridicule ASCN's failures? If ASCN was taking Delve over they would be doing the same thing, and we both know that.
If BOB (current size is 1600ppl roughly) is kicking ASCN (about 4k) out of a region in a matter of a few weeks, while ASCN HC is saying that region didn't matter, you threw away your ships and stations for nothing, they should be touting their success. What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp. |
Acwron
Minmatar Cataclysm Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:47:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Acwron on 20/11/2006 23:48:26
tbh I don't think anybody how read the alliances forum for more than a year isn't reading their posts anymore (at least taking them serious). They are so full of propagenda and general chestbeating that the informational value is less than what you can gather from the killboards and the map.
When you write posts on the forum at least do it in a somewhat entertaining way like Seleene does.
I don't like reading a forum post from BoB everytime they undock. It's just boring. If they really think they need to post propagenda bs on the forums I feel for them... Quite a few alliances have proven that you don't need a new forum thread every couple of days to win a war and crush an enemy (be it D¦, G, Red, AAA or somebody else).
Ah and yes concerning are more recent propagenda BS which was repeated by quite a few BoB members (*cough* *cough* and on EVE TV) check out this intresting movie. It's mostly about other intresting stuff but you'll pick up the bit.
|
travelingsales
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Drusus Rensus
For my own part, I'd have to put myself in a category I didn't list, which is "don't know", mostly because I've only been observing for a relatively short time. A lot of these posts strike me personally as just over-the-top arrogant and mean-spirited. I can't tell whether the posters are just playing over-the-top arrogant and mean-spirited, or whether they actually ARE over-the-top arrogant and mean-spirited. If it's the former, hey, cool, it's part of what makes roleplaying games fun. If it's the latter, they are, in my opinion, the kind of folks who make just about any game less fun than it could have been.
My experience has been that the vast majority of BoB players, when they feel like breaking character, will tell you that it's the former. They enjoy playing the bad guy on the forums and if you really got to know them they are really a nice person who you'd enjoy having a beer with. I have no doubt this is true of many if not most BoB members. The few I know at all out of game are cool guys. So as far as that goes, in many cases I think it's RP.
It should also be noted that BoB contains around ~1600 characters, and of those I would guess less than 100 post here regularly, so trying to say what the average BoB member is like based on posts in this forum risks a significant sampling bias (same is true of any alliance for that matter).
With that said, some members of BoB clearly take such joy in belittling others, wallowing in their own arrogance, and generally being jerks that I can't see how it's "just RP", unless they are simply the most committed and talented RP'ers on the face of the earth. (tbh, their characters would probably tell you that this is exactly the case, seeing as they are the best at everything )
You pretty much have to form your own opinion. In general I think the smacktalking is pretty entertaining and write most of it off as being in-character, although as I said above some of it is just so vitriolic that I do wonder a bit about the person playing the character. So I don't know whether that's a thumbs up or thumbs down, sorry to complicate your thread
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: travelingsales unless they are simply the most committed and talented RP'ers on the face of the earth.
thanx
>: ) |
|
Manas
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:04:00 -
[71]
It would be nice if there was an information source on what was going on daily in the Eve Universe, that would have distilled info, and not take more than 5-10 minutes a day to read.
This forum sure isn't it. I'm interested in finding out what's happening out there, but threads with 10 pages of smack and chest pounding is making my eyes bleed.
TGRAD info & video here
|
Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:06:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 21/11/2006 00:08:53 From my point of view, as part of BoB, and even as a veteran pilot, public opinion matters only when it can do things that matter. Actually, the average pilot here, doesn't. And worse of all, it does not even dare to try.
In the end we will probably continue to post here our "propaganda". After all, the only thing you can do, is listen to us without trying to talk back. I really hope one day we will **** you off more than we scare you.
|
travelingsales
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:20:00 -
[73]
Originally by: thoth foc
Originally by: travelingsales unless they are simply the most committed and talented RP'ers on the face of the earth.
thanx
Hey, anything's possible!
|
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:27:00 -
[74]
As for why BoB uses TS spies and ASCN inside info/posts, it`s easy: To gain advantage.
If ASCN wants to win, they better do the same, no matter what (refering to the TS spies)
Back in topic, what worry us (the forumeers) is the liberty BoB takes that they can post whatever is on a private forum. If ASCN can, they should do the same. ------------------------------------ Have a sig you can sell me? Eve-mail me your work and we`ll talk business! ------------------------------------ |
Bluespike
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:32:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 21/11/2006 00:08:53 From my point of view, as part of BoB, and even as a veteran pilot, public opinion matters only when it can do things that matter. Actually, the average pilot here, doesn't. And worse of all, it does not even dare to try.
In the end we will probably continue to post here our "propaganda". After all, the only thing you can do, is listen to us without trying to talk back. I really hope one day we will **** you off more than we scare you.
Wow
|
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:32:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Rikeka As for why BoB uses TS spies and ASCN inside info/posts, it`s easy: To gain advantage.
If ASCN wants to win, they better do the same, no matter what (refering to the TS spies)
Back in topic, what worry us (the forumeers) is the liberty BoB takes that they can post whatever is on a private forum. If ASCN can, they should do the same.
Couldn't agree more. If people could actually sit themselves down and remove their "RL" implants and just play this as a GAME, and completely immerse themselves in this virtual world (which is what we do) they would find it alot less stressful and, imo, alot more fun.
Forget the RL, forget the law, forget copyright and privacy and all that rubbish, we're here to play a GAME, start playing it, 100%, who knows, you might like it?
|
Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:33:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 21/11/2006 00:34:17
hmmm.. well personally speaking in reference to the BoB vs ASCN threads.. (or if you will, particularly the threads started by BoB)... I am not directly involved, so the best way to describe my feelings towards them are mild amusement mixed with ambivolance, though sometimes things are said in them that really spark my interest for purely personal reasons.
I think the BoB posts are healthy for the game... they add spunk to an otherwise pretty sterile environment.
Could they be a little more humble in their choice of words? sure they could, but where is the fun in that.
The mere fact that there are threads guaging public opinion about said threads.. is a testament to their relevance.
The truth is that pretty much all readers of these forums are glued to the screen when it comes to certain threads, some view them as a bad soap, some view it as pure trash others as good entertainemnt.
But at the end of the day it *is* compulsive viewing.
And for those of us that enjoy perusing the forums threads like the BoB vs ASCN thread and other flame prone threads are our bread and butter.
So imo keep 'em comin'....
|
Rebellion
Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:36:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Rebellion on 21/11/2006 00:38:19 BoB didn't get to where it is by being liked by everyone.
I find it hard to see why we should live up to your expectations of what we ought to be. We have never changed how we play EVE, this is what we have always been since day 1. I think many of you were lulled into a false view of things by the long relative peace after the collapse of the PA and CA.
Think of what EVE is supposed to be. It is a ruthless game filled with treachery, plots, hostility, secrecy, and cold, bitter vendettas. And that's just talking about empire space. 0.0 is far more than that.
We should be able to tell each other "I hate you, and I am going to destroy you and your corporation. Then I am going to laugh as everything you have burns" and follow on with "Let's go have a beer" without skipping a beat.
If you want to see a more respectful kind of BoB, then stop doing disgraceful things like calling us cheaters because your inability makes the things we do seem like magic, calling us unproductive members of society, inventing things related to PoTBS and acting as if security lapses inside your own corporations are somehow our fault.
If you do not like BoB, then destroy BoB. Get spies into us, take our regions, take our stations, destroy our capital ships. Then when you stand on us as we lie beaten on the ground and laugh, we can go have a few beers as you gloat and as we think of how we will recover from the defeat.
However, if you protest too much because BoB is being mean to you, and is hurting your feelings, then we will be honor-bound to give you an atomic wedgie. With our tendrils.
Sherebellion
|
Dearwin
Gallente The Kennels
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:50:00 -
[79]
Simply put, I think I would rather have people posting on something than nothing. Regardless of their subject matter, quality or flame/smack content, many of us EvE players will read what ever is on the forums. Granted I do miss the days of the Northern War, when so much was going on, and there were so many good threads about it, you could read the boards all day and be reading something totally different than you had when you begin. Now it feels much more eating cabbage, its a quite boring, but you still need to eat.
So I think posting is better than no posting, so a reluctant thumbs up to the BoB posts.
|
Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:53:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Dearwin Now it feels much more eating cabbage, its a quite boring, but you still need to eat.
hehe.. that made me laugh.. funny analogy....
|
|
Rebellion
Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:00:00 -
[81]
First turnips, now cabbages.
Stop the vegan invasion of EVE. I think most of you need to eat more meat and salty foods to build aggression.
|
Alasse Cuthalion
TAOSP Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:05:00 -
[82]
Rebellion wins this thread, your complimentary Team Emo T-shirt is in the post!
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:10:00 -
[83]
My take on this issue is that the community is utterly schizophrenic regarding propaganda, attitude towards other players, the nature of Eve as a very PvP centric game and very specifically the content of this forum.
For starters Eve is a very PvP centric game, the very essence of Eve is the harsh death penalty and the competition between players in almost every aspect of the game. Eve is not a game where everyone reaches the same level cap, grinds for the same Sword Of A Thousand Truths and can all roleplay that they are the champion of the world and legitimately claim to be correct because they've been to the Castle of Ultimate Darkness and killed the ebil Warlock and his horde of minions (despite the fact that everyone else has). Eve by it's very nature has winners and losers.
This same community that gets it's knickers in a twist about aggressive forum posting will defend the rights of any one of us to go into a 0.3 system and repeatedly kill any poor pilot in his fourth week into the game as many times as we can pull it off because that's the nature of Eve. There are dozens of posts in the General section of this forum every week where the issue of Eve being full of griefers/ebil people/sociopaths is raised by someone relatively new to the game and a very significant proportion of the community always comes charging in to refute those claims and sing the praises of CCP for creating a game where true competition and meaningful PvP exists.
Yet whilst it's ok to reduce some tearful newbie to 1isk and a Bantam just for giggles in low sec it's not ok to wage war with words on another group of players in a different section of the same forum?
It's been clearly stated by the development team on more occasions than you can shake a stick at that Eve is a sandbox where anything goes, where players drive the real content and that to the Dev's collective amazement and joy we as a community continue to surprise them and take the game to new levels. New members of the community will regularly decry the lack of content within the game mechanics, code, back story etc. and every time they do many of the same people who read and write in this forum daily will go to great pains to point out the Dev's vision for the game and advise those new players to make their own content.
Why then in the context of Eve and it's community would we place artificial limits on the degree to which people take that sandbox idea to create player driven content? We know Eve is a harsh virtual world that we all inhabit, it says so on the box, the Dev's tell us it is and we all defend that fact to people who criticise Eve's model. We collectively, even those of us that play the 'white knights' within the game, can and indeed regularly do some pretty harsh things to each other in game. Not only can we do nasty things to each other but Eve is one of those games where achievement and success require a pretty significant investment of time, effort, cooperation with others and ultimately a degree therefore of emotional involvement so those nasty things hurt that little bit more. The Eve experience is to some degree like watching a horror movie, we all know what we're paying to watch, we all know that it's not real and we all know that it's going to frighten us and make us feel bad.... that's the reason we're there paying and watching.
Blog
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:11:00 -
[84]
As a small example of the degree of immersion and attachment Eve fosters I can think of numerous occasions where the advantages of two corporations merging are significant, that from a game play perspective would undoubtedly advance the experience for all their members and yet they can't give up the name of their corp, the reputation it has created for itself and the sense of investment and attachment associated with it. We all know this, in fact I am sure we all relish the fact that even for the most casual player Eve breeds those feelings.
Given that freedom of play style, the model of meaningful PvP and the indisputable fact that the very nature of Eve creates emotional involvement (which we all enjoy) why would any of us want to see a war between two of Eve's largest player factions occur in the game in a vacuum detached from those feelings of immersion when ever it is portrayed in all the other community media surrounding the game? I would suggest that we don't really want that, I would suggest that it would even be strange if it did occur.
I know that many people who do not participate in the rough and tumble of the CAOD forum and do not post the things they think or feel about their opponents and enemies in game still say and think all the same type of things that those of us who do actively participate in this forum post in here. I know they do because it's in their own forums, it's in their corporation or alliance chat channels and at times they'll even communicate it directly to you in game (hate mail anyone?). So who is the more honest, who is participating more in the spirit of the game and the community, those that pretend in here that such sentiments, thoughts and feelings are bad and shouldn't be communicated (yet do it anyway in other media) or those who just openly communicate in CAOD and share it with the wider audience?
The argument that wars and all the communication of thought and feeling surrounding them should be kept in private or in game and that these forums are not the place for it should ask themselves the question why these forums exist. Why is there an Events forum? To communicate about events in game, including associated roleplay and therefore make the experience more accessible and more involving. Why are there Roleplaying sections of the forum? To expand the roleplay experience from within the game out of the game and facilitate more opportunity for participation and involvement. Why therefore is there a section for discussion about the achievements, actions, announcements etc. of corporations, alliances and organisations? For exactly the same reasons of course, to widen the availability and therefore involvement in the actions of those same organisations. The forums exist specifically to broaden the scope of interaction beyond what happens in game.
Taking therefore the sandbox nature of Eve, the harsh realities of the game, the degree of time invested, the deep sense of immersion and attachment we all have for our characters, corporations, alliances and the achievements associated with them and then combining that with a media provided specifically to broaden the opportunities to participate in those things of course we will have propaganda in CAOD.
Blog
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:12:00 -
[85]
I can recall posting myself during the FIX war about how much I enjoyed fighting them and what good enemies they were to have. There were a lot of people posting in those threads the equivalent of a virtual vomit over the nicey nicey nature of the posts (they weren't that kiss ass either!). When there is a lot of aggressive forum posturing and propaganda going on in CAOD people complain about it, when there is a lot of nicey nicey posts people complain about it. This community is schizophrenic regarding it's response to the state of this area of the forum.
To lose this forum would deprive the game and the community of something special. To make this forum too nice and remove a lot of the vitriol would make the whole Eve experience much too depressingly clinical and PG in nature. In the main the majority of content on this forum is merely a reflection of the degree to which Eve succeeds in creating a free form environment where player driven content flourishes like no other game on the market.
I sincerely believe that only the tiniest minority of posters in here really are too emotionally involved and transpose their feelings for another player or group of players into real life dislike. The majority of us know what this forum is about and enjoy the colourful addition it brings to the in game experience. I would even go so far as to suggest that if there weren't posts in CAOD that people can complain about then they would miss the opportunity to complain!
When I meet people in real life who play on opposing factions in Eve we have a laugh about it, we all know that we're playing our parts in game, that someone has to be the knight in shining armour, someone has to be the clown, someone has to be the bad guy and all the other variations of style that bring such a diverse gaming experience to life. I've played the good guy and had as much fun doing that as I have playing the bad guy, the guy behind the keyboard hasn't changed. I have a very old friend in Eve from our days in NORAD who left BNC when we 'turned to the dark side' I'd still love to buy the guy a beer in real life and I still enjoy chatting to him when I bump into him in Eve, I am 100% certain he feels the same way. He's playing one style and I'm playing another, he's still a friend. When we fight in game I'll still post propaganda about his faction and I'll still expect them to do the same or at least refute mine, it doesn't really change our personal relationship or ability to chat about the conflict and say how much fun it was. Perspective is the key.
There will be a time when this current phase on the CAOD forums has ended and we go through another quiet spell, love or hate what is going on currently there will be posts by people on both sides of the coin who lament the lack of content we are currently experiencing, it's happened before and it will happen again.
If we have war in Eve without the surrounding drama, roleplay and polarising forum debates then Eve would still be fun to a degree but more along the lines of people playing Civ online building empires for the sake of building, playing the game for the fun it brings and enjoying the win.... but not with the same feeling of satisfaction and immersion we currently enjoy.
As far as BoB in particular is concerned I would just ask what fun would a film about the Wild West be without the Indians, what fun would the X-Men movies be without Magneto, what fun would Lord of the Rings be without Sauron etc etc...? Eve would be a lesser place without the bad guys believe me and as the current bad guys we wouldn't be nearly as hated (in the context of the game I sincerely hope!) without all the aspects that make us what we are and one of those aspects is the way we like to tell it like it is in the CAOD forum.
After all that ramble I should go on to talk about the fact that whether you like it or not propaganda works .. but I think I've said enough for now.
Blog
|
Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:30:00 -
[86]
That was a long but insightful post BL
... those that are complaining about the COAD threads that are accompanying the ASCN vs BoB war should take some time out, read BL's post, several times if necessary... and accept it for what it is.. the simple truth.
|
Trytonx
Syncore Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:47:00 -
[87]
Quote: ASCN, like any alliance we turn our gaze towards, are merely puppets at the end of our strings, dancing to a tune of our devising.
omg thats a keeper
|
Nev Clavain
Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:54:00 -
[88]
Well long post by Blacklight that I think misses the point entirely. I agree with alot of what BL says, but this thread is about how this player-driven forum content has affected the opinions of people towards the entity known as BoB.
Given some of the posts I've seen my opinion is honestly lowered, but I've already explained that position earlier. I am not suggesting this content should stop entirely, that is not why my opinion has been lowered. My opinion is lowered because I think the same effects could have been achieved with alot more panache, and without being so personally offensive in some cases.
However as many BoB have pointed out, my opinion of BoB is next to irrelevant right now. That is true, but it is still the topic.
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:03:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Blacklight on 21/11/2006 02:03:34
Originally by: Nev Clavain Well long post by Blacklight that I think misses the point entirely.
It would have been rather ridiculous of me just to post that I think our forum strategy is brilliant and deserves a big thumbs up though wouldn't it?
Equally, other BoB members have posted that what the Eve community at large thinks of us because of our forum strategy is irrelevant to us, so simply repeating that would be a waste of bandwidth.
I'm pretty sure I didn't miss the point, I just posted something more generalistic about the use of this forum which is related to how people perceive communications in here and how that can be intensely schizophrenic and often hypocritical in nature.
So my apologies if it appeared off topic
Blog
|
Major Stormer
Caldari Red Storm Vendetta
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:05:00 -
[90]
To be honest, everytime I see a post by a big alliance, nomatter who, it sends me to sleep. 1) becuase I know half it is at least bending the truth (unless its like 3rd birthday or something :P ), and 2) theres so freaking many of them, all saying the same thing (We rock, you can my suck my balls).
There are some nice exceptions to this. One being the awesome topic with AAA and FIX about the battle over FIX's outpost. THAT was a good topic, and we need more of them.
|
|
Nev Clavain
Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:07:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Nev Clavain on 21/11/2006 02:07:18
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Nev Clavain Well long post by Blacklight that I think misses the point entirely.
It would have been rather ridiculous of me just to post that I think our forum strategy is brilliant and deserves a big thumbs up though wouldn't it?
Hehe that is certainly a fair point you make and to be honest I agree with alot of what you said.
|
travelingsales
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:08:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Blacklight
pretty sweet post tbh
See Mr. OP, like I said, the BoB guys out-of-character seem pretty cool on the whole. Whether you think his post was on topic or not, the guy who plays Blacklight has clearly thought pretty deeply about the game, the community, and is a good writer to boot - that was a really good post. Not the first one either from "OOC Blacklight".
OTOH the "character" Blacklight (as opposed to the guy playing him) seems like a jerk most of the time
|
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:25:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 21/11/2006 02:26:15
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I think that saying "good fight" a bit more often, even when the fight wasn't that great, would go very far to improving the reputation of BoB.
Reminds me of someone saying 'Good fight !' to a poor guy, who had just jumped into a bubble camp and got popped with a volley. Guess someone has to be really evil for that.
cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
|
Asylum Seaker
Minmatar The Blackwater Brigade Blackwater Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:32:00 -
[94]
I've fought BoB as part of Huzzah, and even after facing their fleets in combat I don't presume to know their strength and capabilitys or the character of their members (if you want to make such a generalisation on so many people). Maybe I know a little better than the average, but not significantly. Trying to understand BoB or any alliance through what they post on the forums is ridiculous. Furthermore I've seen plenty of their members show well mannered and mild personalities in local, and on other areas of the forum. Memento Mori.
|
Shinjuro
Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:34:00 -
[95]
I would have to say in the middle.. Some posts made are quite constructive and informative. Other posts (the ones that give little or no new information on the war) are simply propaganda and TBFH are just plain boring. I did love the "Ok we had an engagement and this is what happened; war stories." But we don't get much of that anymore. Now all that it is: We rule, you suck, disband now or die, leave now or die, we still rule, you still suck... over and over and over and over and you get the point. It is old!
|
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:39:00 -
[96]
Our forum posting is no different to any war we have participated in to date.
We will tell the whole of eve exactly how this war is going.
We will back that up with every form of media we can lay our hands on.
We will tell our enemies exactly why they are losing backed up with that information.
However, it is the enemies that dictate our posting policies.
If they are gracious, we are 100% more so as seen in numerous wars we have had in the past.
But if they wrong us then I suggest the rest of eve steps back from our posts on the forums because we will drag those enemies to hell and back for the slur.
ASCN made that mistake early on through the postings by CYVOK and McCreedy who, as leaders of ASCN, speak directly for their alliance and have continued through uncountable others who dilute the good words of a few.
You may all hate us for doing this but you only have to look within to find the reasons for our fervor.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
|
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:39:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Gungankllr on 21/11/2006 02:41:05 Being an alliance diplomat, whenever I post I carry the burden of being "The official position" of the Ascendant Frontier. That being said, I'm going to step off the podium for a second, and speak to everyone not as the voice of my alliance, but rather as the person behind the avatar.
I've always thought that the best thing about this game is the free-form playability it has. Not because of the in-game tools, but because of the inherent ability of the human mind to shape and deliver prose and speech in entertaining ways. Words are the Keystone in what makes Eve, Eve. Going back to the beginning, there has always been those that could either inspire or infuriate based on those words. The Daakons, and the Daniel Jacksons.
The Jade Constantines and the Digital Communists.
The list of people I have drawn from in my Eve career is long and distinguished.
From every major conflict, to every corporation, it is the people whom I have had the pleasure to fly with that have made Eve worth every hour played, every dollar spent.
So now we stand on the edge of a new dawn in Eve, and looking back I can honestly say I am amazed at how far we have come.
In every aspect save one.
The one thing we haven't learned in all these years, is how to apply moderation to ourselves.
Granted, Eve Online would be another "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" if it wasn't for the men and women that provide the nemesis to your hero.
That being said, I believe there is a fine line between spicing up the game, and pepper spraying it.
Yes, Eve Online is a child's sandbox to make and destroy as you see fit. It doesn't mean it gives us carte blanche to act as children.
When I say that I mean on all sides.
Men and Women from Ascendant Frontier (Including a few that carry substantial weight in-game) have added to the fire by their words.
For the most part, this thread has been pretty rational, which is why I'll respond to what I know about the accusations of Lying within ASCN.
1. POS wars: All evidence CYVOK had at the time pointed to BoB ramping up for RA style POS wars, and it was his perception that the systems were going to be won in that manner. It didn't happen that way. Does that make him a liar? It all depends on your perception of the situation.
2. POTBS: The way I read that, a communication between CYVOK and some of you leadership happened, which is where that statement comes from. If every single member of your leadership is categorically denying that they and select members of BoB will not be leaving for Eve, then we will automatically be proven to be liars when POTBS is released. Patience is a virtue, my cup runneth over.
3. Moving of players by GM: As I'm sure that a member of CCP is reading this thread, I'd like to ask CCP to step in and resolve this one. I'd like to know if under some sort of "Stuck" resolution, members of the Band of Brothers alliance were moved from one system to another. There will be logs or notes by the GM staff tracking official action.
I know the official line is "We don't discuss GM actions" but if you look back over the last several years, there has been many reports made public about moving stuck players.
The alliances in Eve are the torches that players flock to when they are looking for their entertainment.
I give the Band of Brothers alliance credit for their military victories, but I cannot in good conscience sit idly by while their idea of "Roleplaying" crushes the sense of individuality we used to find in the CAOD forums.
Every thread doesn't have to revolve around BoB vs. ASCN.
Obviously every thread does not, but when I can look at the first page of 30 threads (including the stickies) and find 6 BoB vs. ASCN threads, there is something wrong.
It's gotten to the point where people that are entirely uninvolved are asking for it to stop.
So I come here to ask, as a reasonably intelligent person, for BoB to dial it down a notch.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
maGz
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:41:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Nev Clavain
Originally by: Avon
We seem to speak with one voice, making the same points.
You seem to give yourself too much credit methinks. Some of you post intelligently, and answer the points at hand; and some of you post like frustrated and irritating teenagers with chips on their shoulders. The message is not consistent, other than it is generally demeaning.
Originally by: Avon
So, where am I going with this?
Beyond that point Avon, you were going off topic. Just because the subject is BoB propaganda doesn't mean we need some live examples. We have plenty of examples to leaf through. The thread is not about ASCN leadership and its alleged flaws in any sense, but nice attempt at a derail. If you would like to make a thread about ASCN propaganda as you see it, perhaps you should start your own?
So to refer directly to the original post, My opinion of BoB has been lowered considerably by the forum antics of the past few weeks. However to balance my position, my opinion of ASCN has also been lowered by their part in it all.
I don't believe there is some huge orchestrated campaign of propaganda, but there are certain threads posted where seeds are deliberately sown by certain people.
On the issue of respect being discussed, this is my opinion: respect is a mutual thing, you get respect by showing respect and vice versa. It has nothing to do with how hard you can beat someone or how hard they can beat you. It is a question of how one conducts themselves. In this regard, I believe very few prolific posters on either side of this war deserve the respect of the other. So the resultant 6+ page flames are hardly surprising.
Quoting this because I think it's spot on...
PS. And @ Avon for trying to derail... ____________
The Priory Killboard |
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 02:55:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Blacklight on 21/11/2006 02:55:51
Originally by: Gungankllr Every thread doesn't have to revolve around BoB vs. ASCN.
Obviously every thread does not, but when I can look at the first page of 30 threads (including the stickies) and find 6 BoB vs. ASCN threads, there is something wrong.
It's gotten to the point where people that are entirely uninvolved are asking for it to stop.
So I come here to ask, as a reasonably intelligent person, for BoB to dial it down a notch.
There are eight threads in the last five pages on this forum that were started by BoB out of a total of approximately 150 (thirty per page), three of those were the weekly sunday updates that we post about the progress of the war (one post per week), one was a 'good fight in AZN' thread by Fitz and another was a fairly balanced battle report by Bizarre about the fighting around H8-. So three other threads that perhaps the forum could have lived without i.e. 2%, which compared to a lot of the other alty McAlt drivel posted in here despite the current alt ban is pretty low.
I could count the ASCN threads but I don't know all your pilots and it would take me ages, suffice to say there are two started by yourself and one by CYVOK.
There are two by Anue, no further comment required
The remainder are by other members of the community either genuinely curious or bob-hating attempts to score points.
So please tell me how when we apparently, based on that sample, start just over 5% of the threads in here are supposed to dial it down?
Seriously, we start a lot less of the crap in this forum than people sometimes believe, apparently yourself included.
Blog
|
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 03:50:00 -
[100]
Since the OP asked about how the uninvolved see these BoB posts. Personally I just try to extract the interesting information and get some insights, what's going on.
I filter all the propaganda and smack out. It's not that those things annoy me, it's more that I don't care in this case. Just want facts about the war. Currently I can have as much propaganda and smack as I like in our own war and caring about that is sometimes already exhausting enough, because it's a lot more difficult to ignore.
cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
|
|
BlackDog Rackh'am
Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 04:24:00 -
[101]
It has come to everyone's attention that ASCN has some terribly serious shortocomings as an alliance.
The fact that one of the best, if not the overall best until now, PvP alliance in the game feels the need to capitalise on those shortcomings for outside-the-battlefield consumption, public ridicule, propaganda (again, propaganda is not necessarily lying, it's in the way you say things...standard disclaimer), dividing the enemy from within and anything not directly related to shooty shooty can only mean a thumbs down.
And this is coming from a player who has had an axe to grind against ASCN for a very long time.
ASCN has achieved most of their goals because it aligned itself with the biggest bully in the block for way too long, it's only fitting and ironic that the same bully takes them down in the end. Nevertheless, it's bad taste in the extreme to badmouth and try to demoralise an enemy at every possible chance when you can already beat him senseless with one arm tied behind your back. It's a different story when there's an equal fight, propaganga has a place there. But when a war is as one-sided as this one, inability to remain a gracious victor only arouses suspicion of where one's true might lies...the pen or the sword.
|
Moonlight Express
Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 04:36:00 -
[102]
Maybe if others did not accuse BoB of exploits (GMĘs, node crashes etc), maybe if others did not disrespect BoB ( BoB lite, no lives, live in basements etc), maybe if others did not use lame tactics (Control-Q, BM bombs etc), BoB would not have to point that out and defend themselves here on the forums for all to see.
|
R0ot
InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 05:25:00 -
[103]
*thumbs up
Makes for great reading! ___________________________________________________________________
|
Callie Nefarious
The Legion.
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 05:48:00 -
[104]
GO BON forum warfare I say, its great to read, Nice and amusign with plenty of whit thrown in.
Nos if ASCn could math their replies to this flavour rather than the nitter stuff I seem to see it would be even more fun.
Now lets the war tales continue null |
pxmars
Caldari Dragon's Rage Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 07:46:00 -
[105]
Bob has my respect as a pvp alliance, and as people. The stuff said in this forum will not change that.I'am their enemy in this game, and they are mine. Taking a game too serious in a world filled with many ills is defeating the reason for playing in the first place.
|
Luna Liandri
PPN United
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 08:03:00 -
[106]
/me likes the forums. most of the time its good entertainment and sometimes one can find the gem, be it funny, witty, great or well written. as in RL surely this gems are under huge piles of junk, but thats life *shrug* for sure it would be easier to have a better signal-to-noise ratio, but anyone with enough time to study forums, usenet, chat, mailinglists should know by now that this style of communication has inherited limits and accept that.
Originally by: Drusus Rensus Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 20/11/2006 17:39:01 Over the past couple of months we've been treated to quite a few threads from BoB ...
there is no monopoly in childish behavior IMO. BoB has it, ASCN tries hard to be par and nearly every other entity has them in times of war and chaos.
sure, i could live without that but otoh its very insightful. for example one can see that despite all oral service for the RP-gods ("this is a internet-space-game", "WE can distinguish between RL and a game but YOU cant", "WE dont step over but YOU do") sometimes even the most brilliant writers fall out of their role(-play). for example just go back some pages and re-read some of the Goon vs. BoB threads in the current light, its funny - dont get me wrong, its just an example and BoB is not alone here. coherency is so hard to achieve in the internet-space-game.
just install a good spam-scanner in your wetware and scan for the gems. there are some good posters and they seldom fail - be it Seleene's posts, most of BL's, RB or DC etc etc etc
|
Sharcy
Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 08:31:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Dianabolic Forget the RL, forget the law, forget copyright and privacy and all that rubbish, we're here to play a GAME, start playing it, 100%, who knows, you might like it?
Even if I could get my head around the possibility that the average arrogant, obnoxious and demeaning BoB post is done as a form of roleplaying, well... Seriously, that's not how I would want to play any game. Sorry. --
|
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 09:14:00 -
[108]
Quote: Our forum posting is no different to any war we have participated in to date.
We will tell the whole of eve exactly how this war is going.
We will back that up with every form of media we can lay our hands on.
We will tell our enemies exactly why they are losing backed up with that information.
However, it is the enemies that dictate our posting policies.
If they are gracious, we are 100% more so as seen in numerous wars we have had in the past.
But if they wrong us then I suggest the rest of eve steps back from our posts on the forums because we will drag those enemies to hell and back for the slur.
ASCN made that mistake early on through the postings by CYVOK and McCreedy who, as leaders of ASCN, speak directly for their alliance and have continued through uncountable others who dilute the good words of a few.
You may all hate us for doing this but you only have to look within to find the reasons for our fervor.
dbp
Every day I am more impressed by the ability to "roleplay" a megalomaniac, chestbeating schoolboy with his gang.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 11:47:00 -
[109]
Well, it does come down to that you know. Roleplay.
Personally I consider tthis forum section roleplay too. Not in the sense that I'm roleplaying an immortal podpilot with a few city-sized starships in a hangar deep in lawless space, but in the sense that I immerse myself in this war and the full scoope of warfare that comes with it. And as we've alreayd discussed, I do consider your private forums as well as mine, or both our ts comms, as part of the greater Eve gameplay, and thus fair game in warfare.
So when I use these sources, I am still immersed in this roleplay of warfare. When I leave this forum section however, the switch goes off and I find myself posting in the general section, generally without even looking at the alliance ticker under your name when I reply to you.
What it coems down to is that for alot of BoB this is part of the game. Our war does in that respect continue on the forums.
But, in the same respect you should consider none of it personal, since all we say and do is about your actions when you are immersed in this warfare game like us. We mostly assume that you will switch that argumentative attitude off the minute you leave this forum section too, like us.
Only rarely do we get confronted with behaviour that is so clearly not part of the "immersed warfare" attitude of play that we will make things personal. That however has not happened to me in this war, altho some comments have been on or maybe already over that line where you can't speak of immersed argument anymore.
So, with regard to that and the original question, I am sorry to have to say that our shared attitude towards this forum section seems one that is slowly dissapearing within this community.
However, that doesn't meant that this forum section changes. This is exactly the section meant for this kind of thing, and if you don't share that ability to switch your personal attitude towards other posts from real to fictional as we do, then I suggest you stay out of here in total.
So far, i see way too mnay people here that simply can't make that distinction. And judging from what I read elsewhere that goes for quite a few of the people that I would prefer to share this wargame with (as enemies) as well.
Old blog |
Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 12:01:00 -
[110]
I take a look at CAOD, do my homework (as BL has done) and am astounded by lack of BoB-generated posts. Why is that? I think because
1) it bleeds over to many other posts, and 2) BoB/ASCN threads are usually the longest threads in CAOD
Seems like all one person has to do it mention something contrary to BoB, and the whole BoB team prison rapes them. I'm proud of my corp and my alliance. I personally feel that we have contributed much to this game and am happy to be a part of it. When some alt-asshat slags us anonymously with a BS comment, I want to beat him down verbally too. God forbid if it gets posted to the MC forums, then we come out of the woodwork to get a piece. No real difference in that case.
So I understand BoB's responses to ASCN and the hater-tribe. The FIX war was nowhere near this level of drama and posting. Why? Mutual respect, probably. It was the same when the MC (then just BDCI and Sharks, before alliances) fought CLS... parades of forum lemmings talking nonsense with fuzzy math and endless streams of excuses for losing terribly. We also fought people who respected us and said so on the forums. You know what? No 10-page threads of vitriol, and no bleed over.
So has my opinion of BoB gone down since the ASCN war? Not at all, because I've been there and completely understand how it is. Oh, and contradictions aren't propaganda, they're just stupid (explanations on request).
LM
Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
|
|
Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 12:03:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Latex Mistress on 21/11/2006 12:03:24 Dbl post 4tl... LM
Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
|
Baconjoe
Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 12:42:00 -
[112]
Originally by: ProphetGuru Our posts serve their purpose.
ASCN, like any alliance we turn our gaze towards, are merely puppets at the end of our strings, dancing to a tune of our devising.
To the masses, respect isin't earned or lost on the forums. Respect is a byproduct of power, and we have the power to make anyone have a miserable day, in any aspect of the game, at any time of our choosing.... and their really isin't a **** thing that you or anyone else can do about it.
Humbely,
PG
I think you sir, are what everyone despises in BOB.
We are cursed men
|
Darknesss
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 13:24:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Baconjoe
Originally by: ProphetGuru Our posts serve their purpose.
ASCN, like any alliance we turn our gaze towards, are merely puppets at the end of our strings, dancing to a tune of our devising.
To the masses, respect isin't earned or lost on the forums. Respect is a byproduct of power, and we have the power to make anyone have a miserable day, in any aspect of the game, at any time of our choosing.... and their really isin't a **** thing that you or anyone else can do about it.
Humbely,
PG
I think you sir, are what everyone despises in BOB.
signed. BoB cannot do anything to me or my alliance, sure, i respect the fleet capabilities of BoB, but on an individual level they fall just as easily as anyone else. A person in my position (no space, no solid target to hit) no one can threaten me or my alliance. And we always welcome war decs from anyone
|
Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 13:30:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Nev Clavain On the issue of respect being discussed, this is my opinion: respect is a mutual thing, you get respect by showing respect and vice versa. It has nothing to do with how hard you can beat someone or how hard they can beat you. It is a question of how one conducts themselves. In this regard, I believe very few prolific posters on either side of this war deserve the respect of the other. So the resultant 6+ page flames are hardly surprising.
This has to be the post I agree with the most. Very well said. IMO respect is there to be lost, I respect everyone in this game unless they give me a reason not to. You don't earn respect, you simply lose it.
[ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!] |
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 13:41:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Sharcy
Originally by: Dianabolic Forget the RL, forget the law, forget copyright and privacy and all that rubbish, we're here to play a GAME, start playing it, 100%, who knows, you might like it?
Even if I could get my head around the possibility that the average arrogant, obnoxious and demeaning BoB post is done as a form of roleplaying, well... Seriously, that's not how I would want to play any game. Sorry.
When you wrote this, did you consider that you were as much to blame for this as anyone else?
You consider the average BOB post: 1) arrogant - Well sofar Bob has proved better at this war than ASCN.. It might not be pleasant to accept, but your dislike for the facts wont change them. 2) demeaning - You dont like ppl pointing our your short comings.. well, shortcomings dont go away if you ignore them. You not likely others highlighting your faults, doesnt make them "evil" or wrong for highlighting them. As long as they are reasonible accurate. You have equal chance to refute their observations. 3) obnoxious - apparently you dont like ppl pointing out faults, so i'm not surprised you find posts objectionable.
You state you dont want to play like the above, which ofc is perfectly fine, no one forces you to do any other. But by the same token you cant force others to play as you decide. If you dont like this, ignore it, or leave it to others that do enjoy it.
Now i'd hazzard a guess your not going to like this post much either, and ofc i could have sugar coated the facts to make them more palatable.. but will you look to your own comrades to correct their distasteful comments about BOB? i doubt it..
>: ) |
BOldMan
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 13:51:00 -
[116]
Edited by: BOldMan on 21/11/2006 13:58:44
Originally by: Malachon Draco
If you wanted good fights, you wouldn't use TS spies.
1 - If there are TS spy, they are also ingame/chat/corp/alliance/gang/forums spy also. Is not like a spy is an outsider player/hacker. Is one of yours.
2 - If wanted only pew, pew maybe Eve is too much.
I like this game for all aspects. Even lag can be funny sometime. Don't say 'spying is bad and killing people in wars is honorable'.
|
Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 14:54:00 -
[117]
BoB havent made that many threads, they dont need to. trolling 3rd parties are as guilty as BoBbits for fueling the flames. Posts like this, this & this (couldnt find the paticular one i wanted but these will do) I find far worse then the posts started by BoB members. SirMolles few threads are interesting to read, thanks to the coded poe inspired language he uses. DBP weekly reports & longwinded responses are amusing, if at times uncomfortable to read. I dont like the hordes of bobbits who seem to reply to all & everything en mass. But the only real difference between them & the other members of this community who likewise reply to everything with nothing is they have Band of Brothers as their alliance tag.
But this isnt what the op is asking for. As PvPers the forum war has had no impact on my respect for BOB. Theyre very good at what they do, i dont need to read it again & again to know it. As an alliance i have lost some respect though. Theres only so many times someone can blow their own trumpet before i wanna just grab it & stick it up thier rear end.
So i guess it has to be a thumbs down from me. Some BoBbits seem to have come to the conclusion that their so awsome their image to the community doesnt matter, & in some ways their right. But such hubris is a dangerous thing to have. However, its the alt trolls & 3rd parties that are as guilty of fueling the flame as BOBbits are of being the flamers that really annoy me. Id rather have the surprisingly limited number of ASCN & BOB started threads where all the flame & spam is self contained; & get rid of the numerous "rise up against BOB" & "BOB roX0r ASCN suX0r" threads started by random 3rd parties for the sole purpose of continuing the cycle of spam.
Quote: Please reply with a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" or "don't care" and a brief explaination of why if you'd like. _________________________________________________________ i tried i really did
|
Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 14:57:00 -
[118]
BoB havent made that many threads, they dont need to. trolling 3rd parties are as guilty as BoBbits for fueling the flames. Posts like this, this & this (couldnt find the paticular one i wanted but these will do) I find far worse then the posts started by BoB members. SirMolles few threads are interesting to read, thanks to the coded poe inspired language he uses. DBP weekly reports & longwinded responses are amusing, if at times uncomfortable to read. I dont like the hordes of bobbits who seem to reply to all & everything en mass. But the only real difference between them & the other members of this community who likewise reply to everything with nothing is they have Band of Brothers as their alliance tag.
But this isnt what the op is asking for. As PvPers the forum war has had no impact on my respect for BOB. Theyre very good at what they do, i dont need to read it again & again to know it. As an alliance i have lost some respect though. Theres only so many times someone can blow their own trumpet before i wanna just grab it & stick it up thier rear end.
So i guess it has to be a thumbs down from me. Some BoBbits seem to have come to the conclusion that their so awsome their image to the community doesnt matter, & in some ways their right. But such hubris is a dangerous thing to have. However, its the alt trolls & 3rd parties that are as guilty of fueling the flame as BOBbits are of being the flamers that really annoy me. Id rather have the surprisingly limited number of ASCN & BOB started threads where all the flame & spam is self contained; & get rid of the numerous "rise up against BOB" & "BOB roX0r ASCN suX0r" threads started by random 3rd parties for the sole purpose of continuing the cycle of spam.
Quote: Please reply with a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" or "don't care" and a brief explaination of why if you'd like. _________________________________________________________ i tried i really did
|
Auman
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 14:59:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Gungankllr 1. POS wars: All evidence CYVOK had at the time pointed to BoB ramping up for RA style POS wars, and it was his perception that the systems were going to be won in that manner. It didn't happen that way. Does that make him a liar? It all depends on your perception of the situation.
Out of interest what evidence are you talking about there?
|
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 16:02:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Auman
Out of interest what evidence are you talking about there?
1. Spies within your alliance.
2. Monitoring empire market trends in the area around your space.
3. Monitoring Freighter and transport Movement into your space from empire areas.
4. Adding 2+2 and not getting 5.
All that being said, back then, it looked like that was the course of action you guys were going to take.
I'm not ashamed to be wrong on occasion, and in this case I was. Everything I saw at the time led me to the same conclusion.
Anyhow, if that makes me a liar, then I'm a big, fat, liar.
If you look up liar in the dictionary, then you'll see a picture of me hanging out in Jita in a Noobship.
Time to move on to something important yet? Or should we rehash this another three hundred times?
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
|
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 16:15:00 -
[121]
Amazing, how this has turned into a typical BoB/ASCN thread.
Both thumbs down. --
|
DarkFenix
Caldari Pilots From Honour
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 16:15:00 -
[122]
Edited by: DarkFenix on 21/11/2006 16:16:01 While I'm sick to death of a certain member of BoB I know blowing his own trumpet endlessly on TS, I have nothing but respect for BoB for their PvP abilities and their apparent endless insanity.
It's ASCN's propaganda that bugs me more, you know, the rubbish about BoB's morale being at breaking point and similar posts. It's comically pathetic. From the way I hear the war is going, it's ASCN that's on the rocks. I'm sure they're not being destroyed quickly, after all they're Xetic Mk2 and they've been mining away for quite a while down there. They do probably have nearly endless resources, shame about the people commanding them though . Out of curiosity, has ASCN's titan actually left its safespot to fight yet?
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 18:28:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Gungankllr
Originally by: Auman
Out of interest what evidence are you talking about there?
1. Spies within your alliance....
Spies who would have access to our forums and teamspeak? The very things you lambast us for using?
Can you even see the moral high-ground from there?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Tzrailasa
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 18:36:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Gungankllr
Originally by: Auman
Out of interest what evidence are you talking about there?
1. Spies within your alliance.
If this'd been football, we'd have had a contender for 'Worst OWN GOAL of the decade'
My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance. |
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 19:10:00 -
[125]
As I see the BoB forum squad warming up, let me just stop you all for a second to ponder something.
ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums.
Our opinion, is that private forums are a place where you should be able to talk to each other, about your common goals and interests, where the rest of Eve and especially the ISD moderators have no domain.
Private forums are where you can be yourself, and say just about anything that crosses your mind without fear of losing your posting privledges.
When I complain about spies, I complain about the spies that post our personal conversations here in the Eve forums.
If you look back not only in the entirety of the history of this conflict, but in the history of the Ascendant Frontier, I do not believe you will find a single incident of anything another entity posts in private being made public by us.
That's the difference.
Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing.
I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to.
You've known we had and have spies all along, which is why CYVOK knew in advance you guys were going to be attacking us.
Reread the blogs you obviously have access to, and you should see what I'm talking about.
As for Teamspeak servers, Ascendant Frontier has never in our history used the voice communications of an enemy against them.
I enjoy a good fight just as much as the next guy. I like the feeling when after a two hour chess match fur starts flying and ships start exploding and you come out on top.
I think that if we were to use BoB's teamspeak server, any victory we did get would feel cheap. We didn't really beat them, we just took advantage of knowing intimately what they were going to be doing, and I think it's cheap.
In my eyes it's the very same as using a logon trap, or logging off to avoid getting killed. In many ways it's actually worse, because it's not just one person doing it, it's an entire gang, or fleet.
If BoB has no qualms about doing that, then that's their right. But when they talk about how they love a good fight, they're being facetious.
If a good, honest, clean fight is what you wanted, then you wouldn't need all the little extras.
If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this:
ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted.
BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted.
BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted.
I digress, no matter how I explain it, nor how BoB rationalize it, we are going to be diametrically opposed on the issue.
Regardless if we win or lose this conflict, I hope that Eve will remember the way we tried to carry ourselves in this fight.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 19:37:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Avon on 21/11/2006 19:39:15
"I think that if we were to use BoB's teamspeak server, any victory we did get would feel cheap. We didn't really beat them, we just took advantage of knowing intimately what they were going to be doing, and I think it's cheap.
In my eyes it's the very same as using a logon trap, or logging off to avoid getting killed. In many ways it's actually worse, because it's not just one person doing it, it's an entire gang, or fleet. "
CTRL+Q teamspeak episode?
Seriously mate, you should just stop digging your hole.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 19:40:00 -
[127]
I'd just like to congratulate Gungan on the completion of his regression to the same level of gibbering lunacy that the rest of ASCN's leadership suffer from and for totally derailing what was until he stepped in a pretty good thread.
Well done, you have become what you profess to hate.
Blog
|
Boliknar
The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 19:46:00 -
[128]
Why is it everyone of these threads degenerates into a ****ing contest. With a my dad can beat up your dad overtones. Fer christ's sake people grow the **** up
-B-
|
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 19:47:00 -
[129]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 19:47:46
Originally by: Gungankllr ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums.
Ah well, since Gungan broke the thread anyway...
Considering what you just posted there, I guess you didn't have access to your secure forums when CYVOK was posting directly from access to TWD's forum account gained OOG were you?
Yeah, must be another incident you have to look up, will have to cover up or will simply call me a liar as usual ;)
/me shrugs
To the OP, perhaps you should run a thread along the same lines querying the public opinion of ASCN.
I'd love to see it that's for sure.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 19:48:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Boliknar Why is it everyone of these threads degenerates into a ****ing contest. With a my dad can beat up your dad overtones. Fer christ's sake people grow the **** up
-B-
Such language, a clear example of the sort of mature mind we should all strive to emulate.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
|
Herculite
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:01:00 -
[131]
I had a long drawn out post but it doesn't add much so I'd like to say while some BoB stuff has been over the top, its been very factual and informative as ASCN isn't in a hurry to give its side of the story, and the HC has made some posts which seemed of questionable value.
Plus the Star Wars sigs are the best things I've seen in EvE sig wise.
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:04:00 -
[132]
Apparently some of your comrade want to speak with you Gungankllr...
Originally by: Moghydin Ascendant Frontier I see no difference between TS or forum spying and DDOS attack on TS server or wiping out the db of enemy internal forums.
Originally by: Malachon Draco Ascendant Frontier Well, I could call using TS spies and forum spies equally lame, abusive and unwanted behaviour
Originally by: Joram McRory Ascendant Frontier So yes lieing to gain access to a corp for the purpose of spying is still morally wrong.
Quote:
[STK-S] Sku1ly
FAO [RKK] Galavet Do us all a favour and get hit by a bus you stupid immature, spying little *****.
Love Skully
xx
Originally by: NeoTech Macro mining uses out of game mechanics to further their ingame progress, so do TS spying and forum spying.
Originally by: Shardrael Ascendant Frontier
honestly I dont like spying period
Originally by: RogueWing Ascendant Frontier I always find it amazing that the people who beat their chest and proclaim how "uber" they are is the ones that have to resort to spying in order to win.
Originally by: Sionn Klorgh Ascendant Frontier
Why? Why do BOB, the almighty PVP force, need to use spies out of game to get advantages inside EVE? Fair fights not your thing perhaps?
Thus, I'm sorry if I'm cynical with the rest of ASCN about honest fair play in BOB.
>: ) |
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:16:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 21/11/2006 19:39:15
"I think that if we were to use BoB's teamspeak server, any victory we did get would feel cheap. We didn't really beat them, we just took advantage of knowing intimately what they were going to be doing, and I think it's cheap.
In my eyes it's the very same as using a logon trap, or logging off to avoid getting killed. In many ways it's actually worse, because it's not just one person doing it, it's an entire gang, or fleet. "
CTRL+Q teamspeak episode?
Seriously mate, you should just stop digging your hole.
One incident absolutely outweighs daily routine.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:18:00 -
[134]
Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 19:47:46
Originally by: Gungankllr ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums.
Ah well, since Gungan broke the thread anyway...
Considering what you just posted there, I guess you didn't have access to your secure forums when CYVOK was posting directly from access to TWD's forum account gained OOG were you?
Yeah, must be another incident you have to look up, will have to cover up or will simply call me a liar as usual ;)
/me shrugs
To the OP, perhaps you should run a thread along the same lines querying the public opinion of ASCN.
I'd love to see it that's for sure.
dbp
Evemail me what you're talking about.
Also, none of whatever you're speaking of made it on public forums, now did it? which is my point.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:19:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Blacklight I'd just like to congratulate Gungan on the completion of his regression to the same level of gibbering lunacy that the rest of ASCN's leadership suffer from and for totally derailing what was until he stepped in a pretty good thread.
Well done, you have become what you profess to hate.
I don't believe anything I've said was any less than the truth. Am I lying about anything I said there?
Or is it just simpler not to refute anything and just call me a gibbering lunatic?
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:21:00 -
[136]
Originally by: thoth foc Apparently some of your comrade want to speak with you Gungankllr...
Originally by: Moghydin Ascendant Frontier I see no difference between TS or forum spying and DDOS attack on TS server or wiping out the db of enemy internal forums.
Originally by: Malachon Draco Ascendant Frontier Well, I could call using TS spies and forum spies equally lame, abusive and unwanted behaviour
Originally by: Joram McRory Ascendant Frontier So yes lieing to gain access to a corp for the purpose of spying is still morally wrong.
Quote:
[STK-S] Sku1ly
FAO [RKK] Galavet Do us all a favour and get hit by a bus you stupid immature, spying little *****.
Love Skully
xx
Originally by: NeoTech Macro mining uses out of game mechanics to further their ingame progress, so do TS spying and forum spying.
Originally by: Shardrael Ascendant Frontier
honestly I dont like spying period
Originally by: RogueWing Ascendant Frontier I always find it amazing that the people who beat their chest and proclaim how "uber" they are is the ones that have to resort to spying in order to win.
Originally by: Sionn Klorgh Ascendant Frontier
Why? Why do BOB, the almighty PVP force, need to use spies out of game to get advantages inside EVE? Fair fights not your thing perhaps?
Thus, I'm sorry if I'm cynical with the rest of ASCN about honest fair play in BOB.
And I challenge you to personally speak to every one of those members and ask them if they are sick of spies, or sick of spies posting things from OOG to ingame, which is the difference.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
Metal Dude
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:22:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Gungankllr
... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing.
I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ...
Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatĘs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itĘs business as usual? How convenient.
The truth will set you free
|
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:28:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Gungankllr
... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing.
I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ...
Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatĘs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itĘs business as usual? How convenient.
And once again you're skipping the entire point, because it's convenient to not listen to what I'm saying.
It's a given in any large alliance that they will have players/alts in different alliances to provide intel.
I'm not disputing that, nor denying we do that.
In the context of what I've said, it all stemmed from being sick and tired of people from BoB posting our personal thoughts and feelings from a private area into a public one, which is something we have not and will not do to them.
Stop skipping over what I mean in an attempt to score points.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:41:00 -
[139]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 20:42:17
Originally by: Gungankllr
Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 19:47:46
Originally by: Gungankllr ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums.
Ah well, since Gungan broke the thread anyway...
Considering what you just posted there, I guess you didn't have access to your secure forums when CYVOK was posting directly from access to TWD's forum account gained OOG were you?
Yeah, must be another incident you have to look up, will have to cover up or will simply call me a liar as usual ;)
/me shrugs
To the OP, perhaps you should run a thread along the same lines querying the public opinion of ASCN.
I'd love to see it that's for sure.
dbp
Evemail me what you're talking about.
Also, none of whatever you're speaking of made it on public forums, now did it? which is my point.
Sorry, I'm not here to satisfy your ignorance about your alliance, I posted above exactly what I meant and if you can't understand that then.... /me shrugs
And whether you post on here or on your forums, there is absolutely no difference. It's still reposting of our forum material.
So keep your high and mighty attitude to yourself gungan because you have no footing morally, legally or anyotherly.
bye now.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
|
Metal Dude
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:42:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Gungankllr
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Gungankllr
... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing.
I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ...
Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatĘs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itĘs business as usual? How convenient.
And once again you're skipping the entire point, because it's convenient to not listen to what I'm saying.
It's a given in any large alliance that they will have players/alts in different alliances to provide intel.
I'm not disputing that, nor denying we do that.
In the context of what I've said, it all stemmed from being sick and tired of people from BoB posting our personal thoughts and feelings from a private area into a public one, which is something we have not and will not do to them.
Stop skipping over what I mean in an attempt to score points.
No. Members of your alliance have time after time ridiculed BoB for using spies. Period. Not because BoB let EVE community know what whiners and liars you really are.
ASCN should be grateful that BoB posted ASCN internal lies on public forum. At least we let you know about it and we donĘt hide that we have spies. ASCN talks morality, but behind the scenes; they do the very same thing that they are complaining about, there for the hypocrisy.
BoB posts your internal lies on the public forums, because quite frankly, where else can we dispute the lies that you feed your members? On your internal forums? Or maybe we should just let you keep spewing the lies about GMĘs, node crashes, POTCS etc. and donĘt defend ourselves? Not going to happen. Ever.
The truth will set you free
|
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 20:52:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Gungankllr And I challenge you to personally speak to every one of those members and ask them if they are sick of spies, or sick of spies posting things from OOG to ingame, which is the difference.
Unfortunately, since i dont recognise (personal opinion ofc) a difference between gaining the information for ASCN HC use only, and gaining the information for more general use, it's going to be kind of difficult for me to explain it to anyone else..
You decide to share whatever information you gain using spies with less ppl.. but you still gain it.. and share it.. and use it... after that i consider your excuses.. splitting hairs...
>: ) |
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 21:14:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Gungankllr on 21/11/2006 21:26:18 Nobody in ASCN disputes that spying is part of the game.
Like it or not, it's there.
The only reason anybody from ASCN even brings up spying, is because you guys feel the need to post our private messages in public.
You're welcome to post your opinions on anything you feel like on your private forums, you're safe there.
Say anything you want about ASCN, lies or not, because we aren't going to stoop to your level and copy your opinions and private thoughts for other people to see.
Show me anywhere that an ASCN HC or myself has denied we use spies.
Now use the correct context I'm speaking of.
I don't personally like spies. I like the unknown, I like the adrenalin rush of hearing there's an enemy fleet 4 jumps from your space and you've got less than 4 minutes to get a gang together and defend.
I like the random chance that a single pilot hanging out somewhere spots an enemy fleet you had no idea was there, or had any intention of attacking you.
I have never accepted an offer from a "defector" or a "spy", I'm not a big fan, never have been.
I've got 11 messages in my inbox right now from people wanting to defect/offering forum access/offering TS access.
I pass them along to somebody else, and I'm sure that any number of the alts that have contacted me can attest to that.
Look at every single post I have ever made, and you'll see that I've never said anything about us not using spies.
I've said I don't like them, in the context that BoB uses them to post our personal correspondence in the public arena.
Anything that has been posted about BoB on our forums was usually the opinion of the poster.
Does that automatically make it a lie?
Making a statement you believe to be true is not a lie.
A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
I haven't seen any of you prove without a shadow of a doubt that anything said was a lie, under the widely accepted definition of the word.
Anyway, I'm moving on.
You're right, I'm wrong.
I'm right, you're wrong.
We're both idiots for spending so much time of our lives arguing over such stupid points.
I'm done.
Call me when you have something new.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
Herculite
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 21:45:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Herculite on 21/11/2006 21:46:34 I liked the above reply before you edited out the 'retard' part.
Edit:Must be hard being a diplomat and not being able to express your true feelings eh?
|
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 21:51:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Gungankllr Nobody in ASCN disputes that spying is part of the game.
Yet people like skully wish those that publish material gained this way gets hit by a bus.
Nice, hey?
|
Dr Einkeisel
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 21:54:00 -
[145]
Actually if you do have accsess to our forums, It would be very interesting to see what you can dig up and post it here. But I doubt you would find anything since we have no reason to lie to members.
|
Hermia
HIVE
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 21:55:00 -
[146]
I for one thoroughly enjoy the drama, its corstic, its gritty and keeps COAD a daly routine for me (although i rarely post on it). Doesnt get better when someone comes here with sensationalist acusations leading to a rollercoster of clever exchange and manipulation of words. For time strapped people its basically "The game".
Oh and people think its bad now? Heh it was much worse (or much more fun depending how you view it) during a particular war some years ago, this place was seething red garnished with RL death threats i kid you not. Something had to be done and development stepped in, some good decisions some bad, most of it was protection aganst ourselves i think, ccp actually love us.
Without a shadow of doubt the best speaker on the Eve online forums was miss "Jade Constantine", the style was fabulous displays of high literacy and great stage setting. I feel sorry for people that missed it, i cant put in words how above-the-rest he really was. Digital communitist while being as clever with words is like a mechanical reproduction of jade, devastatingly efficient he can turn the most reasonable sounding post into utter rubbish, its fun to watch but too iron clad for me (hes still on my list of people to watch tho). i prefer the artfull dodgers in eve, charisma n all.
Please keep manufacturing the drama guys!
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 22:10:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Gungankllr Nobody in ASCN disputes that spying is part of the game.
Like it or not, it's there.
The only reason anybody from ASCN even brings up spying, is because you guys feel the need to post our private messages in public.
You're welcome to post your opinions on anything you feel like on your private forums, you're safe there.
Say anything you want about ASCN, lies or not, because we aren't going to stoop to your level and copy your opinions and private thoughts for other people to see.
Show me anywhere that an ASCN HC or myself has denied we use spies.
Now use the correct context I'm speaking of.
I don't personally like spies. I like the unknown, I like the adrenalin rush of hearing there's an enemy fleet 4 jumps from your space and you've got less than 4 minutes to get a gang together and defend.
I like the random chance that a single pilot hanging out somewhere spots an enemy fleet you had no idea was there, or had any intention of attacking you.
I have never accepted an offer from a "defector" or a "spy", I'm not a big fan, never have been.
I've got 11 messages in my inbox right now from people wanting to defect/offering forum access/offering TS access.
I pass them along to somebody else, and I'm sure that any number of the alts that have contacted me can attest to that.
Look at every single post I have ever made, and you'll see that I've never said anything about us not using spies.
I've said I don't like them, in the context that BoB uses them to post our personal correspondence in the public arena.
Anything that has been posted about BoB on our forums was usually the opinion of the poster.
Does that automatically make it a lie?
Making a statement you believe to be true is not a lie.
A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
I haven't seen any of you prove without a shadow of a doubt that anything said was a lie, under the widely accepted definition of the word.
Anyway, I'm moving on, because arguing with you guys is like wading in a river of blended retard.
Flame away.
I think the phrase your looking for is Lying by omission. The vast majority of posts i've seen from ASCN members neglected to differentiate which aspects of spying they approved of and which they found morally reprehensible..
so you should also add a reference for "Moving the goalposts"..
but since you've enlightened us, it's entertaining to now watch you cherry pick which aspects of spying ASCN have been involved in.. i'm eagerly awaiting the next addition of:
"Well we arent as high on the moral high ground as we might have let you think.. but we're still higher than BOB!!11!!"
(catchy title copyrighted to me)
>: ) |
Cyleth
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 00:30:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Gungankllr If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this:
ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted.
BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted.
BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted.
Gungan, I think it's pretty naive to think such a situation would happen because of TS spying and not 'cause of effective cloakers. If you don't understand why a hostile(I say hostile here since it can apply to more parties than just ascn and BoB) fleet would jump to 100, whether you had short or long range ammo fitted, is not my concern. And I'm not saying 100 would be the perfect range for that. I know Gyro would take D2 fleet to 50-60km... --
Nobody stays behind |
Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 02:55:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Prodigy Z Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck.
I give BoB a thumbs down. There are some very good decent Bob pilots. But overall I find their organization unpleasant. I find them arrogant and I don't like dealing with them. Despite the fact that I have more personal reasons for disliking ASCN BoB's relentless propaganda makes me want to root for anyone fighting them. From talking to people I know in BoB I get the feeling that they all feel if you're not in BoB you just don't rate. I don't know if that's a fair representation of their beliefs or not but it's the impression they give off.
I find BoB arrogant, I don't like dealing with them, I don't like fighting them. I always feel with dealing with them that they think this is their game and that we should be lucky that they let us play or haven't conquered us yet. I'd like to see less posts by BoB and less smack from them in local. Maybe then it wouldn't be such a chore to share this game with them.
|
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 09:30:00 -
[150]
Tbh, most of the time stuff has been lifted and put onto public forum's has been to prove that were not what ascn are lying about internally, Stop making up bs and it will stop appearing on forum's, simple no?
How exactly did you come to earn the space your currently inhabit?
BoB lite let them keep it when they surrendered to us and stabbed Xetic between the shoulderblades.
|
|
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 09:39:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Cyleth
Originally by: Gungankllr If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this:
ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted.
BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted.
BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted.
Gungan, I think it's pretty naive to think such a situation would happen because of TS spying and not 'cause of effective cloakers. If you don't understand why a hostile(I say hostile here since it can apply to more parties than just ascn and BoB) fleet would jump to 100, whether you had short or long range ammo fitted, is not my concern. And I'm not saying 100 would be the perfect range for that. I know Gyro would take D2 fleet to 50-60km...
Yes, because a cloaker will be with the fleet after it warps to a new safespot and can watch it align, and also know exactly where it is aligning to if two potential targets are in exactly the same direction. Oh wait...
Face it, You using TS spies in combat is like using a wallhack in Counterstrike.
Sure, you will beat the opponent, but don't call yourself skilled because of it. And any wallhack user will of course claim that he'd have won anyway, that's the nature of cheaters.
But from the responses in this thread its good to see that respect for BoB is dropping to an all-time low. People see you now for what you really are.
|
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 09:41:00 -
[152]
Quote: Sorry, I'm not here to satisfy your ignorance about your alliance, I posted above exactly what I meant and if you can't understand that then.... /me shrugs
Whether ASCN post on here or on ASCN forums, there is absolutely no difference. It's still reposting of our forum material. If you want to call semantics on it then go ahead but the hypocrisy is absolutely hilarious.
It hasn't been done recently because you have no access to our forums anymore due to the changing of passwords which stopped your OOG access.
Anyway, keep your high and mighty attitude to yourself gungan because you have no footing morally, legally or anyotherly.
bye now.
dbp
...and the winner in categorie best roleplay is....
...dbpreacher.....
....for his performance of being BoB in school teaching others moral lessons!
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 09:48:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Yes, because a cloaker will be with the fleet after it warps to a new safespot and can watch it align, and also know exactly where it is aligning to if two potential targets are in exactly the same direction. Oh wait...
Face it, You using TS spies in combat is like using a wallhack in Counterstrike.
Sure, you will beat the opponent, but don't call yourself skilled because of it. And any wallhack user will of course claim that he'd have won anyway, that's the nature of cheaters.
But from the responses in this thread its good to see that respect for BoB is dropping to an all-time low. People see you now for what you really are.
Dear Mr Stuck Whiney Record,
Your alliance is dying, we're killing it and evicting you from your regions.
Guess what?
No amount of crying is going to save you.
Guess what else?
We don't care whether people respect us for our tactics or not.
Yours
Ebil, Cheating, Nasty, Cellar Dwelling, Unproductive Member of Society.
On a slightly more serious note, are any of the shortcomings of your alliance actually the fault of someone within it or do you project all of your failures onto others?
Blog
|
Auman
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 09:55:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Cyleth
Originally by: Gungankllr If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this:
ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted.
BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted.
BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted.
Gungan, I think it's pretty naive to think such a situation would happen because of TS spying and not 'cause of effective cloakers. If you don't understand why a hostile(I say hostile here since it can apply to more parties than just ascn and BoB) fleet would jump to 100, whether you had short or long range ammo fitted, is not my concern. And I'm not saying 100 would be the perfect range for that. I know Gyro would take D2 fleet to 50-60km...
Yes, because a cloaker will be with the fleet after it warps to a new safespot and can watch it align, and also know exactly where it is aligning to if two potential targets are in exactly the same direction. Oh wait...
Face it, You using TS spies in combat is like using a wallhack in Counterstrike.
Sure, you will beat the opponent, but don't call yourself skilled because of it. And any wallhack user will of course claim that he'd have won anyway, that's the nature of cheaters.
But from the responses in this thread its good to see that respect for BoB is dropping to an all-time low. People see you now for what you really are.
So you don't find forum spying lame anymore?
|
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 10:00:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Yes, because a cloaker will be with the fleet after it warps to a new safespot and can watch it align, and also know exactly where it is aligning to if two potential targets are in exactly the same direction. Oh wait...
Face it, You using TS spies in combat is like using a wallhack in Counterstrike.
Sure, you will beat the opponent, but don't call yourself skilled because of it. And any wallhack user will of course claim that he'd have won anyway, that's the nature of cheaters.
But from the responses in this thread its good to see that respect for BoB is dropping to an all-time low. People see you now for what you really are.
Dear Mr Stuck Whiney Record,
Your alliance is dying, we're killing it and evicting you from your regions.
Guess what?
No amount of crying is going to save you.
Guess what else?
We don't care whether people respect us for our tactics or not.
Yours
Ebil, Cheating, Nasty, Cellar Dwelling, Unproductive Member of Society.
On a slightly more serious note, are any of the shortcomings of your alliance actually the fault of someone within it or do you project all of your failures onto others?
1. The fact you continue to reply indicates you care a hell of a lot more than you claim.
2. Apparently you don't have that many spies in our forums or you would know more about what I think about our internal issues. But I don't feel the need to elaborate on that in public TYVM. I'm sure that any internal problems BoB has, you prefer to keep internal as well.
3. This is as much a war on the forums as in game, as per your own claims. You intend to destroy us ingame, and I intend to (help) prevent that. I also intend to destroy your reputation on these forums, which has been extremely overrated anyway. Don't take it personal when I expose your lies and cheating, its just part of the war.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 11:14:00 -
[156]
Yes, so you swallow the bull**** your HC presents you with, let yourself be tuned to assume the worst about BoB and our tactics whenever you can, and then proceed to use all that rubbish your now wapred mind comes up with to excuse the use of for example logintraps.
Hey, whatever floats your boat. That just makes you one of Cyvok's succesfull little projects, which means you're not the one we're talking to here anyway
From what I see, you alliance does have a few people with some sense of reality left that do speak up here and there. Pity is that you lot that seems to do most of the talking and deciding for those sane members can't really grasp the scale of what's happening, still.
Denial is bliss.
Old blog |
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 12:17:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Yes, so you swallow the bull**** your HC presents you with, let yourself be tuned to assume the worst about BoB and our tactics whenever you can, and then proceed to use all that rubbish your now wapred mind comes up with to excuse the use of for example logintraps.
Hey, whatever floats your boat. That just makes you one of Cyvok's succesfull little projects, which means you're not the one we're talking to here anyway
From what I see, you alliance does have a few people with some sense of reality left that do speak up here and there. Pity is that you lot that seems to do most of the talking and deciding for those sane members can't really grasp the scale of what's happening, still.
Denial is bliss.
Hey....no reason of being impolite....he is only roleplaying.....reality has nothing to do with it, pls go to dbpreacher....he should be able to teach you the basic concept of roleplaying....
..oh wait....aaaahhh gotcha....youre also roleplaying someone, who do not understand the concept of roleplaying, to have a reason to be impolite to someone other and make him looking stupid....
WOW....thats phantastic.
|
Cyleth
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 12:42:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Cyleth on 22/11/2006 12:42:46
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Cyleth
Originally by: Gungankllr If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this:
ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted.
BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted.
BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted.
Gungan, I think it's pretty naive to think such a situation would happen because of TS spying and not 'cause of effective cloakers. If you don't understand why a hostile(I say hostile here since it can apply to more parties than just ascn and BoB) fleet would jump to 100, whether you had short or long range ammo fitted, is not my concern. And I'm not saying 100 would be the perfect range for that. I know Gyro would take D2 fleet to 50-60km...
Yes, because a cloaker will be with the fleet after it warps to a new safespot and can watch it align, and also know exactly where it is aligning to if two potential targets are in exactly the same direction. Oh wait...
Face it, You using TS spies in combat is like using a wallhack in Counterstrike.
Sure, you will beat the opponent, but don't call yourself skilled because of it. And any wallhack user will of course claim that he'd have won anyway, that's the nature of cheaters.
But from the responses in this thread its good to see that respect for BoB is dropping to an all-time low. People see you now for what you really are.
There. Two words being bold for you. Since you don't even know the difference between planet and safespot, I'm not surpriced you are getting your asses handed to you on silverplate.
Ps. Tell me how to turn off my headshot wallhack macro, mkay? --
Nobody stays behind |
King Fury
Caldari New Justice
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 12:46:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Gungankllr
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Gungankllr
... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing.
I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ...
Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatĘs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itĘs business as usual? How convenient.
And once again you're skipping the entire point, because it's convenient to not listen to what I'm saying.
It's a given in any large alliance that they will have players/alts in different alliances to provide intel.
I'm not disputing that, nor denying we do that.
In the context of what I've said, it all stemmed from being sick and tired of people from BoB posting our personal thoughts and feelings from a private area into a public one, which is something we have not and will not do to them.
Stop skipping over what I mean in an attempt to score points.
No. Members of your alliance have time after time ridiculed BoB for using spies. Period. Not because BoB let EVE community know what whiners and liars you really are.
ASCN should be grateful that BoB posted ASCN internal lies on public forum. At least we let you know about it and we donĘt hide that we have spies. ASCN talks morality, but behind the scenes; they do the very same thing that they are complaining about, there for the hypocrisy.
BoB posts your internal lies on the public forums, because quite frankly, where else can we dispute the lies that you feed your members? On your internal forums? Or maybe we should just let you keep spewing the lies about GMĘs, node crashes, POTCS etc. and donĘt defend ourselves? Not going to happen. Ever.
nullnull
The more posts you guys make detracts from your victories on the field. At the moment BoB are coming across as whiners and liars and not ASCN.
If you made less threads and more constructive posts would be a start.
Also trying to dis-credit Gungkllr who has a thankless job responding to your cheap jibes and taunts doesnt make you look any better.
|
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 12:47:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Yes, so you swallow the bull**** your HC presents you with, let yourself be tuned to assume the worst about BoB and our tactics whenever you can, and then proceed to use all that rubbish your now wapred mind comes up with to excuse the use of for example logintraps.
Hey, whatever floats your boat. That just makes you one of Cyvok's succesfull little projects, which means you're not the one we're talking to here anyway
From what I see, you alliance does have a few people with some sense of reality left that do speak up here and there. Pity is that you lot that seems to do most of the talking and deciding for those sane members can't really grasp the scale of what's happening, still.
Denial is bliss.
I can assure you I don't swallow bull**** from anyone.
Only difference is that any bull**** I see or might not see from my own side I deal with on a private forum, and any bull**** I see from your side I will address right here and its called a forum propaganda war.
Does that make ANY SENSE to you or am I talking to a brick wall?
|
|
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 12:52:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Cyleth Edited by: Cyleth on 22/11/2006 12:42:46
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Cyleth
Originally by: Gungankllr If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this:
ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted.
BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted.
BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted.
Gungan, I think it's pretty naive to think such a situation would happen because of TS spying and not 'cause of effective cloakers. If you don't understand why a hostile(I say hostile here since it can apply to more parties than just ascn and BoB) fleet would jump to 100, whether you had short or long range ammo fitted, is not my concern. And I'm not saying 100 would be the perfect range for that. I know Gyro would take D2 fleet to 50-60km...
Yes, because a cloaker will be with the fleet after it warps to a new safespot and can watch it align, and also know exactly where it is aligning to if two potential targets are in exactly the same direction. Oh wait...
Face it, You using TS spies in combat is like using a wallhack in Counterstrike.
Sure, you will beat the opponent, but don't call yourself skilled because of it. And any wallhack user will of course claim that he'd have won anyway, that's the nature of cheaters.
But from the responses in this thread its good to see that respect for BoB is dropping to an all-time low. People see you now for what you really are.
There. Two words being bold for you. Since you don't even know the difference between planet and safespot, I'm not surpriced you are getting your asses handed to you on silverplate.
Ps. Tell me how to turn off my headshot wallhack macro, mkay?
You are incorrect.
Gungan was referring to somewhere the fleet is WARPING TO, i.e. a planet.
You say that doesn't matter since a cloaker can see where our fleet is aligning to, but for that the cloaker must be at the point the fleet is WARPING FROM.
I was arguing that your cloaker often would not be able to see alignment of our fleet since the fleet would be WARPING FROM a safespot.
If we warp from a known POS, sure, your cloakers can see a lot.
But only with a TS spy you can follow certain movements from safespots.
Clear enough?
|
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 12:59:00 -
[162]
I don't think Miso and j0sephine could have taken this post off-topic as well as you guys have.
Kinda funny considering the OP.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
|
Cyleth
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:02:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Malachon Draco You are incorrect.
Gungan was referring to somewhere the fleet is WARPING TO, i.e. a planet.
You say that doesn't matter since a cloaker can see where our fleet is aligning to, but for that the cloaker must be at the point the fleet is WARPING FROM.
I was arguing that your cloaker often would not be able to see alignment of our fleet since the fleet would be WARPING FROM a safespot.
If we warp from a known POS, sure, your cloakers can see a lot.
But only with a TS spy you can follow certain movements from safespots.
Clear enough?
I didnt say the cloaker can see your fleet. I said it's naive to think only such a scenario would happen 'cause of TS spying. But hey ho, come up with your excuses everytime you get owned. That's what you are good at anyway. Clear enough?
So, can you tell me now how I can turn off my headshotwhatever hack. I really dont know since im an unproductive member of society. --
Nobody stays behind |
Stockarian
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:10:00 -
[164]
Play nice boys and girls. To the OP, don't care. Most people know these boards of full of **** and vingar anyway. The fact that bob or any other alliance try to use "psychological" warfare in a VR game is humorous. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I read these boards for a laugh, nothing more. The seriousness on these forums of many people is almost beyond belief. It's still a game folks, have fun.
To save time, why don't you avoid the facts and get right to the spin.
|
Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:13:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Needer
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Yes, so you swallow the bull**** your HC presents you with, let yourself be tuned to assume the worst about BoB and our tactics whenever you can, and then proceed to use all that rubbish your now wapred mind comes up with to excuse the use of for example logintraps.
Hey, whatever floats your boat. That just makes you one of Cyvok's succesfull little projects, which means you're not the one we're talking to here anyway
From what I see, you alliance does have a few people with some sense of reality left that do speak up here and there. Pity is that you lot that seems to do most of the talking and deciding for those sane members can't really grasp the scale of what's happening, still.
Denial is bliss.
Hey....no reason of being impolite....he is only roleplaying.....reality has nothing to do with it, pls go to dbpreacher....he should be able to teach you the basic concept of roleplaying....
..oh wait....aaaahhh gotcha....youre also roleplaying someone, who do not understand the concept of roleplaying, to have a reason to be impolite to someone other and make him looking stupid....
WOW....thats phantastic.
oh he got ya.
[ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!] |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:13:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Malachon Draco Only difference is that any bull**** I see or might not see from my own side I deal with on a private forum,
Yes, so I've heard/seen, hence my post.
Anyway, this is off-topic for this thread. We can continue this banter fine in the next thread that comes along. Untill then please give it a rest ok ?
Old blog |
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:14:00 -
[167]
Originally by: DB Preacher I don't think Miso and j0sephine could have taken this post off-topic as well as you guys have.
Kinda funny considering the OP.
dbp
...let me try...let me try.....you are......
...roleplaying someone...who is ignorant enough, not seeing that he is also part of the problem, which is boring a lot of people to death here.
...hmmm...hope I got it! ....this all seems so real for me...
|
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:15:00 -
[168]
Without wanting to risk watering down your certainly very important points, can't you guys from ASCN and BOB go and hijack another thread instead of this one, where as far as I remember (actually I had to re-read the OP) the question originally was whether everybody else was enjoying the verbal abuse?
On second thought, I guess I'm a bit late and the point is moot after some 4 pages of more gratuituos samples of more material for everyone to judge. --
|
Tzrailasa
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 13:51:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Smagd Without wanting to risk watering down your certainly very important points, can't you guys from ASCN and BOB go and hijack another thread instead of this one, where as far as I remember (actually I had to re-read the OP) the question originally was whether everybody else was enjoying the verbal abuse?
On second thought, I guess I'm a bit late and the point is moot after some 4 pages of more gratuituos samples of more material for everyone to judge.
TBH, there was never any chance for this thread to end otherwise, as I'm quite certain the OP knew. Since the starting post was heavily biased against BoB, all it took was the right trigger.
That trigger was Gungan starting his anti-BoB harrangue, with the same old accusations and excuses. Up until then, the ASCN vs. BoB stuff had been present in the thread, but kept under reasonable control, and the thread had progressed decently (for a COAD thread) until that point. After that point, there really was no way of saving the thread...
My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance. |
Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:04:00 -
[170]
Originally by: DB Preacher I don't think Miso and j0sephine could have taken this post off-topic as well as you guys have.
Kinda funny considering the OP.
dbp
Does j0 still play?
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
|
|
Gungankllr
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:08:00 -
[171]
You'll have to forgive me.
I saw the rational nature of the people posting in here, along with the posts's subject matter, and while in the middle of my post I thought it would be a good place to answer a few questions that had been posed to me without having to resort to starting yet another ASCN vs. BoB thread.
If I derailed the op's original intent for the post, I appologize.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie. |
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:19:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: DB Preacher I don't think Miso and j0sephine could have taken this post off-topic as well as you guys have.
Kinda funny considering the OP.
dbp
Does j0 still play?
Comes and goes.
Was here for most of the early part of the year but hasn't been seen since late summer.
No doubt j0 will be back again next year. Too much whoring to be done ;)
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
|
Tzrailasa
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:24:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Tzrailasa on 22/11/2006 14:30:41
Originally by: Gungankllr You'll have to forgive me.
I saw the rational nature of the people posting in here, along with the posts's subject matter, and while in the middle of my post I thought it would be a good place to answer a few questions that had been posed to me without having to resort to starting yet another ASCN vs. BoB thread.
If I derailed the op's original intent for the post, I appologize.
I'm fairly certain the thread was set up by the OP the devolve into an ASCN vs. BoB thread. Classic flamebait. Thus I don't think you derailed his intent, but helped it
If you start off a thread by purely focusing on 'Don't you think this party is doing ebil stuff', you'll never get a good thread going.
If the OP instead had posted something along the lines of: 'These forums has seen a lot of different posts and posting styles from a vide number of alliances, corps and individuals. I'd like a discussion about how different forum styles work compared to each other.'
THAT would have had the chance of actually being a civil and (for a CAOD post) relatively productive thread, but if you start off a thread heavily biased from the start, it'll derail quickly. I'm actually surprised this one lasted as long as it did before it happened.
My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance. |
Kar'Dargo
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:38:00 -
[174]
Obviously everyone here who is commenting spends the time in the alliance forums reading this 'propaganda'. The forums are part of the game, no doubt about it. BoB does a much better job as indicated by the following perceptions that I think are mostly accepted by the Eve Community (some of ASCN excluded):
1.McCreedy's public image (he began his rants only after being provoked by the losing effort on the propaganda front), topped off by his now infamous comments to and for the Eve Tribune.
2. The perception of ASCNĘs high command. First letĘs look at the facts and the flames that BoB are fanningąASCN is getting beat, clear and simple, and it seems that much of it is due to getting ęout doneĘ tactically in battles and in overall strategy. BoB leverages this and makes it even bigger than it likely is, who among us right now thinks that ASCN HC or FC are doing a good job?
3.Everyone hates a winner. BoB wins and then they are not carebear-ish about it, after the fact. People hate that and hence these threads are born.
4.ASCN is afraid to lose their Titan while BoB/Evol took theirs straight into battle. If you have a Titan and then refuse to lose it while your enemy, in fact just one corp within your enemyĘs alliance built their own and immediately take it out and use it as often as they can, what message is that sending? I mean it does not take much forum fanning to get the obvious message here to be evident.
5.ASCN HC is faltering. 90 minute audio blobą
Some of that is BoB propaganda, some of it they let happen without doing or saying muchą
Due to the uniguely brillian content of this signature, I am afraid we must not display it.
Also, while I didn't attend the funeral, I did send a nice letter saying that I approved of it. |
Farham
Gallente AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:39:00 -
[175]
I get the distinct impression that the more an entity, any entity, resorts to propaganda the more you know something "behind the scenes" is less that it appears.
The stronger that propaganda gets, the more you know something is up.
If you watch current events you can see how the use of propaganda has ebbs and flows.
Just think, Wizard of OZ.
|
Tzrailasa
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 14:51:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Tzrailasa on 22/11/2006 14:51:54
Originally by: Farham I get the distinct impression that the more an entity, any entity, resorts to propaganda the more you know something "behind the scenes" is less that it appears.
The stronger that propaganda gets, the more you know something is up.
If you watch current events you can see how the use of propaganda has ebbs and flows and absolutely tells the good and bad for BOTH sides.
I just know as a peon, if I come to the eve-o boards and see rabid propaganda with aggressive attempts to drown out opposition voices, I feel much better about how things are going.
Just think, Wizard of OZ.
Heh, I think you're overrating that
I see mainly three things affecting the amount of posts from people. 1. More posts are made while people are at work. 2. More posts are made while people are in-game but have no targets to pew-pew. 3. More posts are made if the opposition posts.
Work would be a much duller place without this forum, though
My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance. |
BlackDog Rackh'am
Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 15:38:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Tzrailasa Edited by: Tzrailasa on 22/11/2006 14:30:41
Originally by: Gungankllr You'll have to forgive me.
I saw the rational nature of the people posting in here, along with the posts's subject matter, and while in the middle of my post I thought it would be a good place to answer a few questions that had been posed to me without having to resort to starting yet another ASCN vs. BoB thread.
If I derailed the op's original intent for the post, I appologize.
I'm fairly certain the thread was set up by the OP the devolve into an ASCN vs. BoB thread. Classic flamebait. Thus I don't think you derailed his intent, but helped it
If you start off a thread by purely focusing on 'Don't you think this party is doing ebil stuff', you'll never get a good thread going.
If the OP instead had posted something along the lines of: 'These forums has seen a lot of different posts and posting styles from a vide number of alliances, corps and individuals. I'd like a discussion about how different forum styles work compared to each other.'
THAT would have had the chance of actually being a civil and (for a CAOD post) relatively productive thread, but if you start off a thread heavily biased from the start, it'll derail quickly. I'm actually surprised this one lasted as long as it did before it happened.
Actually i find the OP didn't set anything up. It presents a 3rd person point of view but it doesn't say if it's good or bad. What it does is ask for the public opinion on that.
I think the wording might be a little aggresive on his part, but his description for the most part fits the tone of the BoB announcements and attitude on the forums as perceived by the non-involved parties.
For most spectators two things are obvious in this war: 1) ASCN is horribly outclassed. 2) BoB can't make a point of the above in a civil manner.
Ofc someone will pop in here and say that being courteousness has no bearing in a war and BoB doesn't care what the non-involved parties think and i'm fine with that.
However,the rest of us can freely express a negative opinion in regards to any side of the conflict and for whatever reason we wish, since this is a public communication avenue, much in the same way that BoB and ASCN are having a go at each other on these boards.
And this is just what this post is about in my humble opinion, a place for the spectators to voice their opinion without hijacking the threads of those directly involved. Please respect the fact that this thread is created so as not to hijack your topics and don't hijack this in return
P.S. I agree with the comments below though, i'm @ work right now
Originally by: Tzrailasa Edited by: Tzrailasa on 22/11/2006 14:51:54 I see mainly three things affecting the amount of posts from people. 1. More posts are made while people are at work. 2. More posts are made while people are in-game but have no targets to pew-pew. 3. More posts are made if the opposition posts.
Work would be a much duller place without this forum, though
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 17:42:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Farham Edited by: Farham on 22/11/2006 14:42:29
I get the distinct impression that the more an entity, any entity, resorts to propaganda the more you know something "behind the scenes" is less that it appears.
The stronger that propaganda gets, the more you know something is up.
If you watch current events you can see how the use of propaganda has ebbs and flows and absolutely tells the good and bad for BOTH sides.
I just know as a peon, if I come to the eve-o boards and see rabid propaganda with aggressive attempts to drown out opposition voices, I feel much better about how things are going.
Just think, Wizard of OZ.
Oh, it was a dig at BoB. For a moment I thought it was an insightful post as to the reasons for your HC's need to subject the general ASCN membership to outlandish propoganda.
The Wizard of Oz reference is probably quite valid. Thing is, it isn't Molle behind the curtain desperately pulling levers to maintain a facade of power, is it?
What enrages ASCN HC is that BoB "propoganda" twitches at that curtain, giving the community at large, and the general ASCN membership in particular, a glimpse of the truth it seeks to conceal.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:09:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Blacklight
Dear Mr Stuck Whiney Record,
Your alliance is dying, we're killing it and evicting you from your regions.
Guess what?
No amount of crying is going to save you.
Guess what else?
We don't care whether people respect us for our tactics or not.
Yours
Ebil, Cheating, Nasty, Cellar Dwelling, Unproductive Member of Society.
Honestly posts like this are what the OP was talking about I think. This sort of unpleasantness is why i don't like dealing with BoB. Yes BoB is a pvp powerhouse. Yes BoB has many storied accomplishments under their belt. Yes BoB walks on water and they shoot lightning bolts out of their rear ends. Doesn't matter when you act like such s--ts about it.
I think that unless the situation changes BoB will prevail over ASCN. If that's the case then kudos to you. It'll be a hard won victory. I just hope you're not even nastier to deal with after that.
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:21:00 -
[180]
I think the humour of BLs post was possibly a litte too subtle...
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
|
Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:37:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Avon I think the humour of BLs post was possibly a litte too subtle...
No it was too over the top. He was trying to make a joke about what he perceives is whining and played to the stereotype of Bob flaming on the forums. i just don't find attempt funny or helpful.
|
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:49:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Avon I think the humour of BLs post was possibly a litte too subtle...
wow, nowaday Bob is also claiming to be funny. This is real propaganda.
I like this roleplay thingy!
|
Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 20:24:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Needer
Originally by: Avon I think the humour of BLs post was possibly a litte too subtle...
wow, nowaday Bob is also claiming to be funny. This is real propaganda.
I like this roleplay thingy!
Roleplay am good!
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 20:51:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Liet Traep
Originally by: Avon I think the humour of BLs post was possibly a litte too subtle...
No it was too over the top. He was trying to make a joke about what he perceives is whining and played to the stereotype of Bob flaming on the forums. i just don't find attempt funny or helpful.
Oh give it a rest, you had my real thoughts on the matter on page three, which were pretty much ignored by the BoB haters, yet as soon as I post something that was as much a humorous dig at us playing the bad guy as it was anyone else you're all over it.
Go back to page three and comment on that post if you want to have a debate about this nonsense rather than just playing the holier than thou card.
Blog
|
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 21:01:00 -
[185]
Oh wait....
here is the roleplaying answer quoting one of your members from Page 1
Originally by: Nira Li
You suck and we are better then you.
Oh and you are wrong!
|
Amy Smart
Caldari moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 21:43:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Needer Oh wait....
here is the roleplaying answer quoting one of your members from Page 1
Originally by: Nira Li
You suck and we are better then you.
Oh and you are wrong!
court the HIGHCOMMANDER! and clap the hands! bend down lil fairy wish is a wish!
-------------------------------------------------- - moon7empler :: Dusk and Dawn - - Madam Adminstrator of Venal - |
dodo dedere
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 22:33:00 -
[187]
Edited by: dodo dedere on 22/11/2006 22:40:33 I've just read you're post on page three Blacklight.
Well thank you for taking that time to write you're own feelings, i have to say that vast majority of it I agree with, that is I agree with your assesment of what EVE is compared to other games and why thats good.
A few things though:
I disagree with you're statement that the people who do not 'roleplay' nastiness in the forums always communicate it through different methods such as eve mail...
In fact there are plenty of people who just don't communicate nastiness in anyway to their opposition... at all. I don't particularly and I know plenty of people who do even less than me. They aren't role-playing they are just being themselves.
Compare the role playing done between Amaar loyalists and Minmatar loyalist corporations, thats different to what you do. They want the other guy to scream "Amarr pig" back at them... It is my belief that what you do is non consensual, you 'role play' the nasty guy belittling the opposition without the opposition particularly role playing or wanting to role play back. You're role play is designed to stop the opposition from logging on and fighting you, the other is designed to get a fight, to make EVE for fun for both sides.
I don't think there is a place for one over the other in EVE, both have their place but that doesn't mean I like them both equally. It also doesn't mean I'm not gonna complain when I believe you take it too far.
In the end I think it comes down to. "I want ASCN's space... whats the quickest way to do that? aha, demoralise them. Hmmm... whats the quickest way to do that? Point out every failure however small and twist every succes into a failure"
That is Propaganda, and that why you should be ignored, but thats why you never will.
Dodo
|
Itzena
Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 23:15:00 -
[188]
What I don't understand is people saying things like "I used to like BoB but zomg they were mean to ASCN so I don't like them any more"
BoB's recent behaviour is nothing new - in fact, I'd say it's their standard modus operandi: 1) Declare war. 2) Start smear campaign on forums to try and turn the rest of EVE against their latest victim(s). 3) At some point, declare victory and leave. Whether BoB's original goals were achieved is immaterial - their pet forum warriors will spin whatever the end result was into a resounding success. 4) Fill up stockpiles with spares again, then find someone else to pick on. Go to step one. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be. |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 23:53:00 -
[189]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 23/11/2006 00:11:27 Where I come from respect is garnered through friendship and positive action.
This has been said many times before but its very true, pretty much every entity in Eve-Online has its fair share of halfwits.
It's just that in my experience the entity in question seem to harbour a disproportionately large number of nasty people who take their attitude too far even on the internet.
Of course you can just dismiss my bias opinion as I happen to be part of an group that has a particuarly rocky history with said entity. Thing is I think a rather large number of sensible people from all walks of 'Eve life' share my view.
In fact said entity, its got as far as a point where you need to ask yourselves, "Is it because they're jealous of my own and my organisations 'internet gaming skills' or is there some truth to their ramblings?"
The single thing that annoys me most is that the many civil and intelligent people in said entity appear to condone the actions of these few morons and even go as far as to support their borderline psychotic ramblings.
I'm pretty **** sure the reasonable types in said entity know that I'm right.
As this is the internet you have to take much of what is said with a rather large pinch of salt. Despite this there are decent ways to act regardless of whether this is the internet or not, some people just push it too far.
This post will come across as particuarly scathing, because it is. Sorry.
edited.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
Drusus Rensus
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 00:22:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 23/11/2006 00:27:41 Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 23/11/2006 00:23:54
Quote: I'm fairly certain the thread was set up by the OP the devolve into an ASCN vs. BoB thread. Classic flamebait. Thus I don't think you derailed his intent, but helped it.
FWIW, it really wasn't. That's why I stressed that I would have preferred if uninterested 3rd parties (i.e. Not BoB and ASCN) responded. Yeah, I named names in the post, but I didn't state anywhere in the original post that I thought it was "ebil". If I had posted that same thing without mentioning BoB by name, is there anyone here, really, who wouldn't have known exactly who I was talking about? Nah. It wouldn't have been three posts before someone said "well, of course your're talking about BoB", and the end result would have been the same.
I really was interested in what those (not ASCN and BoB) reading along thought of these posts, since, because they're posted here, the "Eve public" is obviously part of the intended audience for them. So, calling this thread flame-bait is kind of like calling cheddar cheese fish bait. It probably only looks that way if you were a fish to begin with.
|
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 00:39:00 -
[191]
Unfortunately your wording of the OP gives the impression that "propoganda" is the exclusive domain of BoB. Different, more careful, wording may have resulted in a far more constructive thread.
I tend to aim my posts at the level of the thread, and I am sorry to say that this particular one didn't really encourage me to engage much in the way of higher cerebral function, sorry.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
BlackDog Rackh'am
Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 02:59:00 -
[192]
Actually, i think it's quite a nice one...now all you ASCN and BoB guys go and have at it in your own threads, this is were the rest of us get to play the weird neighbours looking through your windows with a telescope, calling each other on the phone and talking gossip about you
Seriously now, it would be a shame if this gets past the maximum allowed flame treshold and get's locked. If anyone in ASCN or BoB wants to know what the community thinks of them, they should let this roll without intervention on their part, this will give the most accurate results on public opinion.
If any of these two parties interferes to steer the conversation where it suits them or get it locked,then it can only mean they can't stand people having a different opinion than their own and they also want to shut them up for fear of more onlookers thinking the same. I'm sure that despite all the vitriol and drama, since everyone claims roleplay reasons for their behaviour here, they are mostly decent people and they will let us go on without meddling on their part. After all, it's not like they don't have material for themselves, there's an ASCNvsBoB thread for them every other day.
It is a public forum after all and people on the outside have as much right to discuss the situation, the only thing that grants posting privileges here is an active account and a characer in a non-NPC corp, not the actual contents of someone's corp ticker
|
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 05:38:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Avon Unfortunately your wording of the OP gives the impression that "propoganda" is the exclusive domain of BoB. Different, more careful, wording may have resulted in a far more constructive thread.
I tend to aim my posts at the level of the thread, and I am sorry to say that this particular one didn't really encourage me to engage much in the way of higher cerebral function, sorry.
If you need higher cerebral function to understand, that a question to the community regarding BOB shoudn¦t be answered from BOB, you may have a bigger problem!
|
Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 06:48:00 -
[194]
Quote: If anyone in ASCN or BoB wants to know what the community thinks of them, they should let this roll without intervention on their part, this will give the most accurate results on public opinion.
I don't belive that for a second. People who have the incentive to write here are either bored senseless, or have a hidden agenda. The community at large does not post, and a few pages of banter between the usual suspects is not representative of any statistical truth.
-
If these forums were ever printed and published for mass consumption, it would have to be sold with tins of lard to accurately depict the transparency some of you seem to possess.
Its one thing to have opinions. Its another to go around preaching in every thread, hoping to convert unbelievers with this senseless gospel. Yet, entitlement of opinion continues to be mistaken for some divine power of judgement. As if your own alliance were the pinnacle of success, and its holy radiance has bestowed upon you the forum omnipotence needed to explain just how screwed up the Band of Brothers really are.
Forgive me for crashing this fragile fantasy, but that is a calculated and deliberate assault. Nothing more than the propaganda spiels you all claim to denounce in this unscrupulous display of forum pandering. Once again, the vast majority of our enemies would rather sit on their ergonomic weight-adjusted ass retainers focusing energy towards image fluffing.
Frankly it doesn't matter if we are seen as priests or pariahs, the end result is always the same.
|
Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 07:50:00 -
[195]
Quote: In fact said entity, its got as far as a point where you need to ask yourselves, "Is it because they're jealous of my own and my organisations 'internet gaming skills' or is there some truth to their ramblings?"
No thanks.
If you want us to eat the humble pies, avoid insulting our intelligence at every opportunity. Until then, I nor anyone else will submit to the ridiculous belief that our enemies have BoB's best interests at heart. Even when they're not whining about our mythical cheats or seething with jealousy.
Yeah BoB we all know you're great, BUUUUT..
We very much appreciate your concern, your advice and most of all, your endless baiting. Without these devices it would be very hard to guage just how uncomfortable we make the competition feel. The very same competition taking notes on how we play is offended we're not "gracious winners" and merely "bullying" the enemy.
Well class is in session, so pay attention:
- If you're going to mail us love notes on how much you respect BoB when its fighting your enemies, then scream bloody murder when we invade you - we might think you're hypocritical twofaced liars.
- Hiring a forum junkie to PR-mask this abhorrent stupidity from the public only serves to reinforce this belief. It may even encourage us to share these contradictory public/private personas of your alliance with the community.
Better yet, take your own advice.
Originally by: Metacannibal can you guys give it a rest already? there will always be spies in alliance of this size. given the moronic behaviour of some people in this alliance, there will always be someone mocking these people, and most of the time rightfully so.
|
Needer
moon7empler Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 08:42:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
Its one thing to have opinions. Its another to go around preaching in every thread, hoping to convert unbelievers with this senseless gospel. Yet, entitlement of opinion continues to be mistaken for some divine power of judgement. As if your own alliance were the pinnacle of success, and its holy radiance has bestowed upon you the forum omnipotence needed to explain just how screwed up the Band of Brothers really are.
I think you are the best proof, that you didnt understand your own roleplaying concept where the name Dbpreacher is the only content!
|
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 09:24:00 -
[197]
someone said "there is only 5 threads about bob and ascn" guys most the threads are highjacked by one of the two parties.
And about the posts of bob, my guess is most of the ppl are bitter about bob or have joined bob, not cause there are such great roleplayers but they are i win button and ppl tend to allign with the best or most present one - take pick out of the two.
About the post in general - we all know ascn has probally the lowest pvp ability of the big alliances in the game so why chestbeat about it.
|
Darcuese
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 09:45:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
About the post in general - we all know ascn has probally the lowest pvp ability of the big alliances in the game so why chestbeat about it.
Becouse our chests give us good rytham for dancing. We are proud of our chests. at least I am on mine
Darth Solo=McCready...in different package |
Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 10:59:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
About the post in general - we all know ascn has probally the lowest pvp ability of the big alliances in the game so why chestbeat about it.
ASCN has great pvp ability due to its numbers, its pilots and its wealth. How that ability is put into practice is a different matter.
I dont think they are weak, just inexperienced. Regional warfare is very different from roaming with the hope to catch and destroy some lone ship. That kind of experience can be only earned while fighting with claws and teeth to keep or conquer a region. It seems trivial but experience is the oil that makes the machine work smoothly.
|
thoth foc
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 11:10:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
ASCN has great pvp ability due to its numbers, its pilots and its wealth. How that ability is put into practice is a different matter.
The word your looking for is potential
>: ) |
|
MacDuncan
Minmatar Unknown Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 11:23:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Kin Hanyerec
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
About the post in general - we all know ascn has probally the lowest pvp ability of the big alliances in the game so why chestbeat about it.
ASCN has great pvp ability due to its numbers, its pilots and its wealth. How that ability is put into practice is a different matter.
I dont think they are weak, just inexperienced. Regional warfare is very different from roaming with the hope to catch and destroy some lone ship. That kind of experience can be only earned while fighting with claws and teeth to keep or conquer a region. It seems trivial but experience is the oil that makes the machine work smoothly.
You are CYVOKS alt in BoB....??
Honestly..if they didn't learned it by now or app. 6 months before now, i personal don't see any potential at all. It's not, that they had no chance to practice before and still lacking the very same department as app. 1 year before. --
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: [one page] |