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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
43
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:43:42 -
[1801] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.
Ahhhh... the good old days.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16284
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:44:44 -
[1802] - Quote
A55 Burger wrote:baltec1 wrote:
It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.
Ahhhh... the good old days.
This show what exactly with regards to the way fleets worked back then?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16284
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:46:56 -
[1803] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:
More effective at pissing everyone off and one line of code less.
You being irritated at a change is no basis on the effectiveness of a change. I bet you also kicked up a stick with the warp speed changes and lots of people went off the deep end with the nano nerf. This change is needed, it is far too easy to control a fleet with one person in one ship.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
43
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:48:03 -
[1804] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:A55 Burger wrote:baltec1 wrote:
It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.
Ahhhh... the good old days. This show what exactly with regards to the way fleets worked back then?
I don't think I'm debating how fleets worked back then. I'm pointing out that if you want to improve a game, regression isn't the way to do it, regardless of what people think due to nostalgia.
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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
1666
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:12:04 -
[1805] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:That can be accomplished with a much less disruptive change: disallow fleet warping to probe results and bookmarks less than one minute old (bookmark age is already in the database).
That preserves near-instant on-grid warping, which leaves entire classes of doctrines confined to history and forgotten hangars, and entire weapons systems--cruise missiles, large beams--confined to PVE.
Just incidentally, they're all doctrines which could effectively counter sentry Ishtars and Domis and also Petes (well, maybe not cruise missiles...).
If the problem is that ad hoc multi-corp fleets of -10s are going to take a hard nerf in high sec, maybe backing Jayne Fillon's idea of extra-corporate player organizations is a good idea.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Naglerr
Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle
46
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:47:30 -
[1806] - Quote
Wow, 91 pages. It would be nice if CCP could come around and provide a status update on this subject. I remember something about them offering an updated status by the end of last week... |
Dermeisen
20
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:51:46 -
[1807] - Quote
A55 Burger wrote:baltec1 wrote:A55 Burger wrote:baltec1 wrote:
It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.
Ahhhh... the good old days. This show what exactly with regards to the way fleets worked back then? I don't think I'm debating how fleets worked back then. I'm pointing out that if you want to improve a game, regression isn't the way to do it, regardless of what people think due to nostalgia.
Why not, are you relying of an approach to the history of eve that presents only an inevitable progression towards a better game, or can good things be lost only to be rediscovered with the benefit of hindsight?
"Not the Boreworms!"
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Lamhoofd Hashur
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
27
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:52:32 -
[1808] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:Wow, 91 pages. It would be nice if CCP could come around and provide a status update on this subject. I remember something about them offering an updated status by the end of last week...
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/fleet-warp-changes-coming-in-august-release/ |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:55:53 -
[1809] - Quote
Yup. Pushed back a release. I am pleasantly surprised. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1144
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:58:37 -
[1810] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Yup. Pushed back a release. I am pleasantly surprised.
They still won't implement a system that is actually significantly better.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
44
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Posted - 2015.06.24 18:03:17 -
[1811] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote: After feedback and discussion, weGÇÖve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To:
Mission locations Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable) Fleet members Along with all existing broadcastable items
Thank you, Larrikin and Co.
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Dermeisen
20
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Posted - 2015.06.24 18:12:38 -
[1812] - Quote
A partially satisfactory outcome.
I don't think it will have much impact on bombers which is a shame! But code was obviously a consideration.
"Not the Boreworms!"
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James Zimmer
Furtherance.
37
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Posted - 2015.06.24 19:39:56 -
[1813] - Quote
This takes the worst out of it. Now it's just a nerf to combat probing, which isn't a terrible thing in my opinion. Thanks CCP for listening! |
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
53
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Posted - 2015.06.24 19:51:48 -
[1814] - Quote
James Zimmer wrote:This takes the worst out of it. Now it's just a nerf to combat probing, which isn't a terrible thing in my opinion. Thanks CCP for listening!
Its already hard enough to catch someone in a sig, why make it harder |
Naglerr
Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle
47
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:18:23 -
[1815] - Quote
I guess this thread was too long for CCP so they made another one where it will be easier to steer the narrative. My comments are here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5843635#post5843635 |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2015.06.24 23:09:00 -
[1816] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: You being irritated at a change is no basis on the effectiveness of a change. I bet you also kicked up a stick with the warp speed changes and lots of people went off the deep end with the nano nerf. This change is needed, it is far too easy to control a fleet with one person in one ship.
How is one person in two ships any better? More tedious for the one person, more time wasted sitting on one's hands for the rest of the fleet..
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2015.06.24 23:11:23 -
[1817] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: The point of this change is to force FCs to stop doing the scouting in their FC ship and use more than one ship for this job and thus more people. Can the FC use an alt? Sure. Can the FC use said alt as effectively as a dedicated player? No. The attrition rate for FC alt cov-ops is abysmal. Dedicated scanner alts will be needed with this change so the goals of this change will be met.
FCs do this all the time. Why would they change their behavior now? |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2015.06.24 23:19:52 -
[1818] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.
That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better. |
Naglerr
Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle
50
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:09:29 -
[1819] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:baltec1 wrote:Troll words. That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better.
Baltec1 has been trolling this tread for almost every individual page of all the 91 pages that this thread is. I'm both really impressed with his dedication and surprised that people are still replying to his posts. |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
105
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:22:57 -
[1820] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:baltec1 wrote:Troll words. That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better. Baltec1 has been trolling this tread for almost every individual page of all the 91 pages that this thread is. I'm both really impressed with his dedication and surprised that people are still replying to his posts.
And he does it so well too! It's an easy way to keep harping on how bad the changes are though.. so hard to let them pass by.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1742
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:04:06 -
[1821] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Brother Mercury wrote:What you're changing doesn't accomplish the stated goal your'e seeking, rather, it just creates tedium and circumstances that make it harder to get fleet engagements.
So its working as intended. The point of this change is to force FCs ... The result of the change is that FCs are less likely fight at all and more likely to stay +2 systems or more away.
I told you guys not to give CCP ideas for compromising. Now look; they are doing that broadcast bookmarks nonsense.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Shuckstar
Taking Inc
325
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:47:37 -
[1822] - Quote
Like these new changes, go the whole hog and remove the anchoring ability, still hate the icons tho
CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16287
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Posted - 2015.06.25 04:31:25 -
[1823] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:Naglerr wrote:Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:baltec1 wrote:Troll words. That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better. Baltec1 has been trolling this tread for almost every individual page of all the 91 pages that this thread is. I'm both really impressed with his dedication and surprised that people are still replying to his posts. And he does it so well too! It's an easy way to keep harping on how bad the changes are though.. so hard to let them pass by.
The pair of you have no idea what the current fleet doctrines are, the tactics used or that FC ships fit probe launchers on them. Notice that by far the bulk of the whining about this change is coming from NPC alts and pve players and not FCs. The very idea that you think getting the fleet members to do more is "tedious" just goes to show how lazy some people have become. You are literally arguing that you should not have to play EVE while you play EVE.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2015.06.25 05:22:27 -
[1824] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The pair of you have no idea what the current fleet doctrines are, the tactics used or that FC ships fit probe launchers on them. Notice that by far the bulk of the whining about this change is coming from NPC alts and pve players and not FCs. The very idea that you think getting the fleet members to do more is "tedious" just goes to show how lazy some people have become. You are literally arguing that you should not have to play EVE while you play EVE.
Red herring dead, so let's mischaracterize, shall we? I said it would make the FC's job more tedious. And the grunts' job more boring as they wait. Please, learn to read.
Feel free to assume whatever you need to to feel good; sadly most of it is not consistent with reality. |
Nuvia
Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy..
0
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Posted - 2015.06.25 05:49:19 -
[1825] - Quote
The last update with the relaxation of what can be warped to sounds more effective - but CCP I argue you miss the point of an MMO it's for people to have fun with other people creating a bench mark where you have to be 'good' or 'participate' creates barriers to entry / limits enjoyment if people want to fly and operate F1 - let them |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1150
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Posted - 2015.06.25 07:53:32 -
[1826] - Quote
Nuvia wrote:The last update with the relaxation of what can be warped to sounds more effective - but CCP I argue you miss the point of an MMO it's for people to have fun with other people creating a bench mark where you have to be 'good' or 'participate' creates barriers to entry / limits enjoyment if people want to fly and operate F1 - let them
You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. The people who simply want to join a fleet, be told where to go and what to do, are still Eve players. They still have subscriptions. They still provide content. There is ample opportunity for those people to volunteer for more active roles in fleets - in fact, every successful community encourages people to step up and be more active. Especially Imperium.
Making fleet operations take longer to get from Point A to Point B will not improve the game experience. Making each fleet member prepare more bookmarks ahead of a fight will not improve the game experience. Those things make Eve more tedious. More of a chore.
I do not want to be part of an Eve where there are 15K people online, but they are the most masochistic, bitter, and elitist pricks on the planet. I want to be part of an Eve where there are 50-100K people online, and they are fun-loving folks with whom I enjoy hanging out. Raising the barrier to fun will not accomplish this goal.
The challenges in Eve need to come primarily from the other players, secondarily from the complex and engaging environment, but NEVER from the interface and controls available to the player.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
142
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Posted - 2015.06.25 10:48:17 -
[1827] - Quote
Hi All,
Please see the new devblog. Please post your feedback in the new feedback thread.
Cheers, CCP Larrikin |
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