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trianna Ekanon
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.12.06 18:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Stop selling it at a loss. Seriously L2Math
If you're producing it from the ground up in high sec you'd be better off just selling your mechanical parts, chiral structures, and toxic metals without bothering with consumer electronics and robo.
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KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
95
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Posted - 2011.12.06 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Buy and relist, make profit? I see no problem here. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
2
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Posted - 2011.12.06 20:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Their loss is somebody else's gain. Might as well be mine. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.12.06 22:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
if they are using old product that was made and hoarded before the expansion, they are still selling at a profit, albert not as great as they could be, but they are still making profit. |
trianna Ekanon
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.12.06 22:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Then they're still losing money by running their factories, as in they could be making more not using their factories |
Shar Tegral
14
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Posted - 2011.12.06 23:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
trianna Ekanon wrote:Then they're still losing money by running their factories, as in they could be making more not using their factories You've no idea what they are doing. Just because someone else's actions make no sense to you does not mean it does not make sense. Coming to the forums and complaining about it just shows how limited your thinking, and options, are.
Like it has been said, if you think the market is under-valued: Buy.
Put your money where your mouth is and just stop whining. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
1
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Posted - 2011.12.06 23:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shar Tegral wrote:
Like it has been said, if you think the market is under-valued: Buy.
Put your money where your mouth is and just stop whining.
I agree with this person.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
111
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Posted - 2011.12.06 23:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
What you make in PI is free, sell it to me and I will make sure to give it a good home on the market. |
DrRuby
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.12.07 01:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
trianna Ekanon wrote:Then they're still losing money by running their factories, as in they could be making more not using their factories
Also consider some people use PI as passive income, which tends to use methods that require the least amount of effort which disregards efficiency. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2011.12.07 07:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Normal market lag, people selling stockpiles they had built pre-tax.
Obvious buy-and-hold trade opportunity is obvious.
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Callduron
18
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Posted - 2011.12.07 08:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
The number used for tax calculations (arguably the floor) for P3 is 70K. According to Eve Central the cheapest Jita sell order in the last 24 hours is 75899.
Possibly a bit rubbish but not quite justifying a learn2math.
I'd guess it's just short term speculators cashing in. Robotics were around 40k not that long ago. |
Uppsy Daisy
Deteis Industries
24
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Posted - 2011.12.07 09:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shar Tegral wrote:trianna Ekanon wrote:Then they're still losing money by running their factories, as in they could be making more not using their factories You've no idea what they are doing. Just because someone else's actions make no sense to you does not mean it does not make sense. Coming to the forums and complaining about it just shows how limited your thinking, and options, are. Like it has been said, if you think the market is under-valued: Buy. Put your money where your mouth is and just stop whining.
I hope Shar is coming back for Crucible.
I have missed him on the forums.
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Alexander Wellspring
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.07 11:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
lot of people has quit robotics manufacturing for lack of profit they need money for new type of investment guys cash out their stockpile other guys look at dropping price this guys **** their pant and sell too price drop more then lot more people quit robotics manufacturing for lack of profit and they need money for new type of investment too other guys cash out their stockpile other other guys look at dropping price this guys **** their pant even more and sell too price drop more we are here repeat until the offer will be less and price will rize again |
Fraa Bjorn
Cell 317
19
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Posted - 2011.12.07 11:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Callduron wrote:The number used for tax calculations (arguably the floor) for P3 is 70K.
Yes, and default is that you pay 10% of those 70k i export tax, isn't it? All games have QQ, but only Eve has Q.Q |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
242
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Posted - 2011.12.07 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alexander Wellspring wrote:lot of people try to cash out putting sell orders of 0.1 isk higher then buy orders, good guys who try to not mess with the market, it kinda work I think you'll find that the sell orders which are 0.01 above buy orders are the result of someone selling more units to buy orders than number of units the buy order was for, i.e. I have a buy order of 10000 units, someone dumps 12000 into me, 2000 is left on the market as a sell order. |
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
22
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Posted - 2011.12.07 15:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
If it means you can get cheap robotics buy as much as you can and wait |
Callduron
18
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Posted - 2011.12.07 16:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fraa Bjorn wrote:Callduron wrote:The number used for tax calculations (arguably the floor) for P3 is 70K. Yes, and default is that you pay 10% of those 70k i export tax, isn't it?
In High sec it's more than a default it's a constant. (I think the word default normally applies where a setting is adjustable). 7k to export one unit of P3. And Robotics can be produced from a single planet although it would be a horribly inefficient way to do PI. (A more realistic set up might include importing P2s, 20 P2s per 3 Robotics).
In other words if you don't care about your time or the efficiency of your PI setup it's possible to produce Robotics so that you spend 7k on High sec tax and take 63k as profit.
Player-owned customs office have a default setting of 5% but very few people will use that. I set mine to 7.5%. Free is also possible and of course in my case paying tax simply moves money from one of my personal wallet to the corp wallet (from which I can take it back out again). |
Callduron
18
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Posted - 2011.12.07 16:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Alexander Wellspring wrote:lot of people try to cash out putting sell orders of 0.1 isk higher then buy orders, good guys who try to not mess with the market, it kinda work I think you'll find that the sell orders which are 0.01 above buy orders are the result of someone selling more units to buy orders than number of units the buy order was for, i.e. I have a buy order of 10000 units, someone dumps 12000 into me, 2000 is left on the market as a sell order.
Does it really work like that? Genuine question, I thought you just sold enough to fill the order but I'm always finding out new things about this game. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
447
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Posted - 2011.12.07 16:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Callduron wrote:The number used for tax calculations (arguably the floor) for P3 is 70K. According to Eve Central the cheapest Jita sell order in the last 24 hours is 75899.
Smart producers will make P3 from P1, because it's often about 10-15% cheaper then making it from P2 due to the new tariffs. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
447
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Posted - 2011.12.07 16:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
P3 profit calculations:
Robotics = 78.4k ISK/u
1) Making it from P2
((P2a price + 450) + (P2b price + 450)) * 10 = input cost (P3 market price - 7000) * 3 = output net value
Mech Parts = 11.1k ISK/u Cons Elec = 9.5k ISK/u
((11100 + 450) + (9500 + 450)) * 10 = 215000 (78400 - 7000) * 3 = 214200 Margin = -0.38%
2) Making it from P1, without exporting/importing the P2 intermediate
((P1a price + 25) + (P1b price + 25) + (P1c price + 25) + (P1d price + 25)) * 10 * (40/5) = input cost (P3 market price - 7000) * 3 = output net value
Chiral Struct = 688 Precious Metals = 607 React Metals = 369 Toxic Metals = 431
((688+607+369+431)+(4*25)) * 10 * (40/5) = 175600 (78400 - 7000) * 3 = 214200 Margin: +22.0% |
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enterprisePSI
Unimatrix 0.1
38
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Posted - 2011.12.07 20:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
wat The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one.
-«enterprise-psi |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
244
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Posted - 2011.12.07 21:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Does it really work like that? Genuine question, I thought you just sold enough to fill the order but I'm always finding out new things about this game. I've been in that situation plenty of times where I've set out to sell to a buy order, and someone else has sold to it while I fatfingered the price in. So yes. |
Chaotic Cannon
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.08 13:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:P3 profit calculations:
Robotics = 78.4k ISK/u
1) Making it from P2
((P2a price + 450) + (P2b price + 450)) * 10 = input cost (P3 market price - 7000) * 3 = output net value
Mech Parts = 11.1k ISK/u Cons Elec = 9.5k ISK/u
((11100 + 450) + (9500 + 450)) * 10 = 215000 (78400 - 7000) * 3 = 214200 Margin = -0.38%
2) Making it from P1, without exporting/importing the P2 intermediate
((P1a price + 25) + (P1b price + 25) + (P1c price + 25) + (P1d price + 25)) * 10 * (40/5) = input cost (P3 market price - 7000) * 3 = output net value
Chiral Struct = 688 Precious Metals = 607 React Metals = 369 Toxic Metals = 431
((688+607+369+431)+(4*25)) * 10 * (40/5) = 175600 (78400 - 7000) * 3 = 214200 Margin: +22.0%
Hi All,
Consider me completely new to PI and even though I am smart guy, PI is so new that I have not learned the ins and outs of everything yet.
Can someone explain a bit more about the calculation above? I am guessing the P1 + X and the P2 + x means that X is some sort of relative cost incurred when making that item? Why is P3 market price have a 7000 subtracted and then all multiplied by 3?
I dont mean to be noobish, but everyone has to learn somewhere and it is my turn to learn.
Thanks
I am just getting into PI and producing some P2 materials for sale, and I am just about to expand into a 1 planet P3 to produce and sell.
If I can get a proper understanding of the whole situation then I would be appreciative.
For example, as Command center costs about 85K on the market. Then it cost me (give or take) just over 10 Mil to get the other structures and upgrades (extractors, processors, CC upgrades, links, and storage).
So next is the tax understanding of moving stuff about (or not in the case of a 1 plant P2 or 1 planet P3)
Thanks everyone. |
Srioghal moDhream
B and T Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.12.08 14:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
You are forgetting brokers fee on both the purchase and the sale and the sales tax.
They add up. :)
Your equation should be using the following
b= broker's fee s=sales tax q1=qty input 1 q2=qty input 2 q3=qty export 1 i=import cost (assuming importing from the same tier) e=export cost x=import 1 cost y=import 2 cost z=export 1 sell value
Expense side =(x*q1)+(i*q1)+(x*q1*b)+(y*q2)+(y*q2)+(y*q2*b)
Revenue side
=(z*q3)-(e*q3)-(e*(b+s))
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
449
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Chaotic Cannon wrote: Can someone explain a bit more about the calculation above? I am guessing the P1 + X and the P2 + x means that X is some sort of relative cost incurred when making that item? Why is P3 market price have a 7000 subtracted and then all multiplied by 3?
Import/export tariffs are what those magic numbers of 25 & 7000 are.
The other numbers are the ratio of how many P1/P2 it takes to make P3s.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Commodities |
Callduron
18
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Posted - 2011.12.09 03:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Callduron wrote:Does it really work like that? Genuine question, I thought you just sold enough to fill the order but I'm always finding out new things about this game. I've been in that situation plenty of times where I've set out to sell to a buy order, and someone else has sold to it while I fatfingered the price in. So yes.
Thanks. |
trianna Ekanon
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:P3 profit calculations:
Robotics = 78.4k ISK/u
1) Making it from P2
((P2a price + 450) + (P2b price + 450)) * 10 = input cost (P3 market price - 7000) * 3 = output net value
Mech Parts = 11.1k ISK/u Cons Elec = 9.5k ISK/u
((11100 + 450) + (9500 + 450)) * 10 = 215000 (78400 - 7000) * 3 = 214200 Margin = -0.38%
2) Making it from P1, without exporting/importing the P2 intermediate
((P1a price + 25) + (P1b price + 25) + (P1c price + 25) + (P1d price + 25)) * 10 * (40/5) = input cost (P3 market price - 7000) * 3 = output net value
Chiral Struct = 688 Precious Metals = 607 React Metals = 369 Toxic Metals = 431
((688+607+369+431)+(4*25)) * 10 * (40/5) = 175600 (78400 - 7000) * 3 = 214200 Margin: +22.0%
While I enjoy your work. The OP still seems to fly over your head. It doesn't matter where you start the process. It was at least at the time of writing the original post that the selling price for Mech Parts+Chiral+Toxic in the same amount that you would need to make 1 robotics was still more more expensive than the one robotics. Your actual profit there just came from making the mechanical parts.
Then again it does says eve university by your name |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
191
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Posted - 2011.12.10 04:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
hi i bought hundreds of thousands of consumer electronics and mechanical parts and robotics themselves pre expansion for like 300 each its profit either way, maybe i been making robotics since the expansion came out and decided to unload? |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
32
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Posted - 2011.12.10 08:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:hi i bought hundreds of thousands of consumer electronics and mechanical parts and robotics themselves pre expansion for like 300 each its profit either way, maybe i been making robotics since the expansion came out and decided to unload?
Why are you telling people what I'm doing? And it's few hundred mil of cons e, and mech parts Need Researched BPO's? Be it drones, ammo, charges, you name it, visit my forum store now! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
35
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Posted - 2011.12.12 02:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alexander Wellspring wrote:lot of people has quit robotics manufacturing for lack of profit they need money for new type of investment guys cash out their stockpile other guys look at dropping price this guys **** their pant and sell too price drop more then lot more people quit robotics manufacturing for lack of profit and they need money for new type of investment too other guys cash out their stockpile other other guys look at dropping price this guys **** their pant even more and sell too price drop more we are here repeat until the offer will be less and price will rize again, or some smart guys put giant buy order
lot of people try to cash out putting sell orders of 0.1 isk higher then buy orders, good guys who try to not mess with the market, it kinda work
And then there are thoughs guys that hold it all till market comes up to were it needs to be one way or the other. It depends. Here are some numbers.
To buy P0 and import it run it though every thing and export it and sale it at zero profit in High sec cost per Robitic right now is at 118,736 cost just to make. Thats no profit just braking even.
The reason no one is buying it up is that P0 could drop in price lowering how much it cost to P0-P3 stuff but in true P0 sets alot of things and not just P3.
Or and this is the big Or Every thing above P0 is going to have to raise alot. P1 to 900-1,000 isk per P2 16,000-20,000 P3 120,000-140,000. Thats over base cost to make in High sec only with some profit placed in there on a my best guess at what would at least make it worth at least myself starting the old factory plants back up.
P4 I dont know I don't make/buy or sell it.
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