Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rovain Sess
Obsidian Cadre
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 16:23:54 -
[1] - Quote
So I not going to rant about a legal game mechanic - use off grid boosters all one wants. All I would like to see is that they (off Grid boosts) incur the same characteristics as the use of logistics on a friend in a fight. They should receive a suspect timer. It's a little crazy when you have identified a booster alt sitting on station or gate and it's giving ones foe a nice competitive advantage, and if you shoot it - you take station guns.
Whilst not an exploit and they are obviously working as the current mechanic allow - I think the subject of receiving suspect status needs to be seriously considered for future inclusion into the game especially since the - "they will have to be on the actual combat grid" idea seems to have died.
Just a thought,
Rovie |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1449
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 17:43:48 -
[2] - Quote
Rovain Sess wrote:So I not going to rant about a legal game mechanic - use off grid boosters all one wants. All I would like to see is that they (off Grid boosts) incur the same characteristics as the use of logistics on a friend in a fight. They should receive a suspect timer. It's a little crazy when you have identified a booster alt sitting on station or gate and it's giving ones foe a nice competitive advantage, and if you shoot it - you take station guns.
Whilst not an exploit and they are obviously working as the current mechanic allow - I think the subject of receiving suspect status needs to be seriously considered for future inclusion into the game especially since the - "they will have to be on the actual combat grid" idea seems to have died.
Just a thought,
Rovie
Suspect timer + add entry on killmail. |
Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
164
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 22:25:54 -
[3] - Quote
Not suspect timer but weapons timer |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
258
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 01:27:53 -
[4] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:Not suspect timer but weapons timer
^This.
You don't want them to have a suspect timer because that means even a frig can shoot them freely.....everywhere. Giving them a 1 minute weapons timer that they have to 'deaggress' from means ganking on station and gates is now very possible. Which means you can still keep them relatively safely on a station/gate but you also have risk when encountering a prepared person who wants to gank your booster.
--------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::-------
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1449
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 08:18:26 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah i meant weapons timer. Though susect timer is fine since the overall goal is to get them off gates and stations into riskier safe spots. |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
147
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 14:52:38 -
[6] - Quote
If CCP is ever going to face the abominably broken game mechanic that is off-grid boosting, it would be a ridiculous waste of programmers' time to implement a half-measure like the one proposed here. They'll either change it so that boosters must be on-grid, or they'll leave it broken. I predict they'll get around to it by 2020 or so. |
Rovain Sess
Obsidian Cadre
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 15:37:34 -
[7] - Quote
Weapons timer - sounds better and I see the value of it - prevents docking. So I'm gunna bump this idea to the top. Yeah change may take a bit of time, but some changes are worth effort. Thanks for the feedback thus far. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
468
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:59:57 -
[8] - Quote
They should also cut the bonus of every single boost, except mining, by an arbitrary and large number. Start at 40% and then tweak from there. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
635
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:43:34 -
[9] - Quote
Suspect timer is better. It will make booster identification in local easier, and anyone can engage them without being fired on by staion/gate guns. If you make it a weapons timer, then you will only see boost alts hugging a POS shield or using fits that make it extremely hard to scan them down. Meaning you will need a highly skilled combat prober on hand.
Weapons timer means you would:
a) need the available gank dps to kill it in under a minute b) know where it is c) will have to tank gate/station guns d) combat prober to scan down boosting alt in a rolling safe.
Could also lead to a meta where people hide the boosting alts off-grid in a FW plex. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1451
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 18:55:12 -
[10] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:They should also cut the bonus of every single boost, except mining, by an arbitrary and large number. Start at 40% and then tweak from there.
I disagree, they should cut all the boosts, apart from the skirmish ones and sensor integrity, because thats the one i use. |
|
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
638
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 20:19:31 -
[11] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:They should also cut the bonus of every single boost, except mining, by an arbitrary and large number. Start at 40% and then tweak from there. I disagree, they should cut all the boosts, apart from the skirmish ones and sensor integrity, because thats the one i use.
I see what you did there. |
Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 00:34:13 -
[12] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:If CCP is ever going to face the abominably broken game mechanic that is off-grid boosting, it would be a ridiculous waste of programmers' time to implement a half-measure like the one proposed here. They'll either change it so that boosters must be on-grid, or they'll leave it broken. I predict they'll get around to it by 2020 or so.
They started testing the first brain-in-a-box-thingy/feautures that eventually supposedly allow for ongrid boosting ealier this year on singularity. Even a dedicated masstest was happening. Contrary to popular belief, they're progressing from the sound of it. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
682
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 02:11:06 -
[13] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:Not suspect timer but weapons timer
Woudn't people just setup POSes everywhere and have their boosts on the edge of the shields? But hey at least it'll turn off the casual boosters and not the hardcore ones.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
|
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
83
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 08:40:27 -
[14] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Degnar Oskold wrote:Not suspect timer but weapons timer Woudn't people just setup POSes everywhere and have their boosts on the edge of the shields? But hey at least it'll turn off the casual boosters and not the hardcore ones.
While yes you can do this its actually quite expensive. So unless your talking major fleet fight style engagements(The thing CCP is trying to destroy) It really doesnt justify dropping about a billion to have a safe spot to boost from per system. (500m ish for pos and guns another 400m for fuel per month)
|
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
697
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 08:43:38 -
[15] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yeah i meant weapons timer. Though susect timer is fine since the overall goal is to get them off gates and stations into riskier safe spots.
Would be careful with suspect timer - Opens up a lot of easy ways to gank PVE links. You could argue that is a good thing though. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
682
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 09:19:40 -
[16] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Yang Aurilen wrote:Degnar Oskold wrote:Not suspect timer but weapons timer Woudn't people just setup POSes everywhere and have their boosts on the edge of the shields? But hey at least it'll turn off the casual boosters and not the hardcore ones. While yes you can do this its actually quite expensive. So unless your talking major fleet fight style engagements(The thing CCP is trying to destroy) It really doesnt justify dropping about a billion to have a safe spot to boost from per system. (500m ish for pos and guns another 400m for fuel per month)
A small pos costs 500 mil? I'm not familiar with POS stuff but in FW I'm sure even a small online POS without any mods wouldn't cost that much. That and it would be such a pain to bash a pos when you can just online another pos in a different moon.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
|
Marlin Spikes
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
198
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 12:40:58 -
[17] - Quote
Too much credit is given to boosting alts. Although they add an edge to the fight, either side can use them. My opinion is that good pilots generally have boosting alts and bad pilots don't. If you want to level the playing field, get another account and train up a boosting alt. Problem fixed.
Bombers Rule!!!
|
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1112
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 13:07:41 -
[18] - Quote
Marlin Spikes wrote:Too much credit is given to boosting alts. Although they add an edge to the fight, either side can use them. My opinion is that good pilots generally have boosting alts and bad pilots don't. If you want to level the playing field, get another account and train up a boosting alt. Problem fixed.
Or put two skirmish links on your 720-sleipnir and have enemies go wtf how an apparently unlinked sleip+jackdaw combo is pulling 3km/s. Flying links into battle is a bit meh due to ccp giving them crazy activation costs, but maybe they'll fix that eventually when links are truly intended to not be used on an OGB-linkalt.
Currently though, even CCP wants you to use offgrid links the way the mods themselves work. |
Rovain Sess
Obsidian Cadre
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 16:02:13 -
[19] - Quote
I don't have a problem with people using links - but I think that there should be more consistency in aiding a hostile. If I use a logistic ship I get a timer, and I think that links have a similar impact on a fight. In addition, there are times when I know that said Loki sitting on the low sec station is boosting a dude flying at ungodly speeds, and that if I attack it I'm gunna tank station guns, he just docks and the cycle continues.
The whole crime watch or whatever it's called is about actions have consequences it seems. So yes use links, but there should be more risk when doing so.
Finally, good to hear their making progress on the "on grid" front. Maybe the winds of change have been continuing to blow behind the scenes.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
447
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 19:22:48 -
[20] - Quote
Marlin Spikes wrote:Too much credit is given to boosting alts. Although they add an edge to the fight, either side can use them. My opinion is that good pilots generally have boosting alts and bad pilots don't. If you want to level the playing field, get another account and train up a boosting alt. Problem fixed.
No.
Links are a HUGE edge in solo and small gang; accepting them as a requirement for competition in those arenas has a chilling effect on 1v1 and small gang encounters and establishes yet another barrier of entry for newer players wanting to do something other than blob warfare. If they are going to remain part of the game they need to appear on killboards and have a risk level appropriate to their rewards, especially if someone makes a habit of dragging their T3 win button all over hostile space.
|
|
Portmanteau
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 06:08:27 -
[21] - Quote
suspect timer/weapons timer as appropriate and remove links from T3s, risk averse solo pilots are less likely to tow around a comand ship with them while pvping in their breacher |
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
162
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:03:57 -
[22] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:No.
Links are a HUGE edge in solo and small gang; accepting them as a requirement for competition in those arenas has a chilling effect on 1v1 and small gang encounters and establishes yet another barrier of entry for newer players wanting to do something other than blob warfare. If they are going to remain part of the game they need to appear on killboards and have a risk level appropriate to their rewards, especially if someone makes a habit of dragging their T3 win button all over hostile space.
meh. this paradigm doesn't change without links because newbs will still need to know how to distinguish between a fight they can take and a fight they can't take. bottom line is links are pretty damn easy to spot, either by the character in local or seeing them on dscan. handicapping links to make the loser feel better for not being able to spot them doesn't improve anything. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1453
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:25:05 -
[23] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:No.
Links are a HUGE edge in solo and small gang; accepting them as a requirement for competition in those arenas has a chilling effect on 1v1 and small gang encounters and establishes yet another barrier of entry for newer players wanting to do something other than blob warfare. If they are going to remain part of the game they need to appear on killboards and have a risk level appropriate to their rewards, especially if someone makes a habit of dragging their T3 win button all over hostile space.
meh. this paradigm doesn't change without links because newbs will still need to know how to distinguish between a fight they can take and a fight they can't take. bottom line is links are pretty damn easy to spot, either by the character in local or seeing them on dscan. handicapping links to make the loser feel better for not being able to spot them doesn't improve anything.
I think the point is that people would like to be more effective while remaining lazy. People who put more effort and time into the game should not have any advantage over those that dont. |
Ares Desideratus
RANDOM STARSHIP GUILD
266
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:16:41 -
[24] - Quote
It actually doesn't take that long to create a new character and get him into a fleet boosting T1 battlecruiser. So it is not so much that it puts new players at a heavy disadvantage, because new players are already put at a heavy disadvantage by the fact that they are new; their skill points are far from optimized, as is their knowledge of the game's mechanics and meta, and often they do not understand the difference between what looks good aesthetically, on paper, and what actually works well in the game. These factors often lead to new players skill-hopping from one ship to the next, without realizing that it is important to be specialized in what you're flying, in order to increase your success ratio with it. It is not simply a matter of being able to fly more ships, in other words.
I think a suspect timer for an off grid booster is unfair. A logistics ship getting a suspect timer is understandable because they are technically activating modules against the target ship. It's the same as activating a weapon against someone's ship, only the effect is reversed; instead of damaging or disrupting the target ship in some way, the logistics ship is healing or strengthening the target ship in some way.
It's different from a fleet booster in the sense that a fleet booster is strengthening basic attributes of all fleet members, from a remote area in the same system.
Therefore, I think that giving the fleet booster the same penalties as a logistics ship would be quite unfair.
Having said all of that, I am not against the idea of limiting off grid boosters in some way. But I think caution must be exercised in regards to this issue, otherwise we might as well just get rid of fleet bonuses all at once and be done with it. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
452
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:06:42 -
[25] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Plato Forko wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:No.
Links are a HUGE edge in solo and small gang; accepting them as a requirement for competition in those arenas has a chilling effect on 1v1 and small gang encounters and establishes yet another barrier of entry for newer players wanting to do something other than blob warfare. If they are going to remain part of the game they need to appear on killboards and have a risk level appropriate to their rewards, especially if someone makes a habit of dragging their T3 win button all over hostile space.
meh. this paradigm doesn't change without links because newbs will still need to know how to distinguish between a fight they can take and a fight they can't take. bottom line is links are pretty damn easy to spot, either by the character in local or seeing them on dscan. handicapping links to make the loser feel better for not being able to spot them doesn't improve anything. I think the point is that people would like to be more effective while remaining lazy. People who put more effort and time into the game should not have any advantage over those that dont.
I don't understand if you are agreeing with me or not. More effort should confer some advantage, more time/money already confers great advantagr and I think there are problems with taking a pay 2 win approach to extremes.
Boosters are like - Have a PC that can multibox comfortably, drop $ on a booster alt or pay for 6 months training of an alt, be far more effective at solo PvP.
There should be some reward for time and effort but if I have the same knowledge of the game and pilot skill as someone yet I can't fight them without dropping $ on a booster, that is a bit lousy.
Making this game an arms race of alts and multiboxing turns off people that can't or don't want to devote that level of resources.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
452
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:13:33 -
[26] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:No.
Links are a HUGE edge in solo and small gang; accepting them as a requirement for competition in those arenas has a chilling effect on 1v1 and small gang encounters and establishes yet another barrier of entry for newer players wanting to do something other than blob warfare. If they are going to remain part of the game they need to appear on killboards and have a risk level appropriate to their rewards, especially if someone makes a habit of dragging their T3 win button all over hostile space.
meh. this paradigm doesn't change without links because newbs will still need to know how to distinguish between a fight they can take and a fight they can't take. bottom line is links are pretty damn easy to spot, either by the character in local or seeing them on dscan. handicapping links to make the loser feel better for not being able to spot them doesn't improve anything.
You understand what a huge chilling effect that has on fights right? As it stands now I won't take fights with a command ship on D-scan or in home systems of known link users, or even with suspicious NPC corp toons hanging out in local. Basically if there's anything on dscan or in local that is a potential booster, I move on. Many players take the same approach.
I have no problem avoiding links by simply adopting an extremely risk averse approach to choosing engagements. The more players that adopt a similar approach, the less solo and small gang content we'll see.
|
Rovain Sess
Obsidian Cadre
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 12:32:41 -
[27] - Quote
So it seems that some trends are developing here
One, to deal with boosted pilots become boosted yourself. That assumes that one wants to invest in two accounts. I don't see this as a reasonable solution - although from a "ccp wants to make more money" standpoint could be what is intended. However, I won't ascribe intent.
Two - boosters don't make that much of a difference. I disagree, they can make a big difference. Watch the Svipal is Op video in this strand. But I also agree that pilot skill does play a large role, but it's still a sizable advantage.
Three - it's not the same as on - field logistics. I think it is, and a boosted ship is targeted in a sense. Even taking boosters (drugs) has some serious possible side effects. Again, I am not against boosters, but I do feel that the boosting party should have to work a bit harder than the current meta requires.
As far as taking fights, it does discourage them. Whereas I know I can go after a boosting ship, then it provides a sense that I have more control over the possible outcome. Currently I don't mind undocking a battleship and forcing my opponent to dock his booster, but the booster doesn't incur any additional risk, however I do (I loose sec status, get a lockout timer, go suspect). The booster just docks or jumps through a gate. Seems a bit one sided.
To me Eve is similar to real life because of the element of risk and the inclusion of trade-offs. I think that boosters should be in the game, should affect what a pilot can do, but the trade off is that while boosted that the booster can't sit in near impunity from repercussions.
|
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
475
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 14:49:23 -
[28] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:They should also cut the bonus of every single boost, except mining, by an arbitrary and large number. Start at 40% and then tweak from there. I disagree, they should cut all the boosts, apart from the skirmish ones and sensor integrity, because thats the one i use.
Actually, toss the cuts into mining links as well. |
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 16:04:27 -
[29] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Rovain Sess wrote:So I not going to rant about a legal game mechanic - use off grid boosters all one wants. All I would like to see is that they (off Grid boosts) incur the same characteristics as the use of logistics on a friend in a fight. They should receive a suspect timer. It's a little crazy when you have identified a booster alt sitting on station or gate and it's giving ones foe a nice competitive advantage, and if you shoot it - you take station guns.
Whilst not an exploit and they are obviously working as the current mechanic allow - I think the subject of receiving suspect status needs to be seriously considered for future inclusion into the game especially since the - "they will have to be on the actual combat grid" idea seems to have died.
Just a thought,
Rovie Suspect timer + add entry on killmail. Add logi to killmail also.
Crosi & I agree on something for a change.
Member of #tweetfleet @stalence //
Combat FRAPs on YouTube
|
Ares Desideratus
RANDOM STARSHIP GUILD
266
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 16:33:30 -
[30] - Quote
Rovain Sess wrote:As far as taking fights, it does discourage them. Whereas I know I can go after a boosting ship, then it provides a sense that I have more control over the possible outcome. Currently I don't mind undocking a battleship and forcing my opponent to dock his booster, but the booster doesn't incur any additional risk, however I do (I loose sec status, get a lockout timer, go suspect). The booster just docks or jumps through a gate. Seems a bit one sided.
To me Eve is similar to real life because of the element of risk and the inclusion of trade-offs. I think that boosters should be in the game, should affect what a pilot can do, but the trade off is that while boosted that the booster can't sit in near impunity from repercussions. Before I give my thoughts on the idea of adding more limitations to the warfare link boosting pilot, I would like to post an addendum to the above:
There are currently already a few limitations to the warfare link pilot, such as the inability to use links while in warp, the inability to use links unless in the same system and in space with another member of the fleet. The inability to cover distance across solar systems if the warfare link pilot's M.O. is to sit on a station (as is the case a decent amount of the time).
However, these limitations by themselves, do not seem to be enough.
Now, I suppose a suspect timer would not be such a bad idea, as it would discourage pilots from the station-hugging style of warfare link boosting that we see quite often, especially in low- and high-sec, while it would largely leave the open-space, cloaking T3 style of warfare link usage intact.
What I would like to stress, however, is that while warfare links do provide very significant advantages, the most important part of these advantages, I think, is the ability to allow a single player, to create a more even battleground when fighting against superior forces. This is important. I don't think that we want to nerf warfare links for the solo pilot with a link alt, while keeping them largely intact for groups with a dedicated fleet booster player. I think we ought to keep away from making things harder for the lone wolf, the guy who fights outnumbered, that's all.
I would ask CCP to keep this in mind while considering these matters. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |