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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:18:00 -
[1]
**********NOTICE********** This is a solicitation for input before I host the actual event. If you have suggestions for improvement, please post them. If you think this is a stupid idea, or I'm dumb, please keep it to yourself, or alternatively.put your money where your mouth is.
Backstory: Let us pretend for a moment that I'm a fairly wealthy industrialist who enjoys life in an NPC corp (DCMI) because of its 0% tax rate and lack of requirements about where I need to be, when, and what I'm supposed to be flying when I get there. You can look at my corp history and see nothing special. I've only been in 0.0 space a couple times. I would like to experience a bit of PvP, but I don't want to go to lowsec or 0.0 to find it. When I think of a good fight, I think of boxers; there's a ring, a referee, rules, and the best fighter wins. When I think of lowsec/nosec fights, I think of a street fight with no rules, you don't know who has a gun, a knife, or friends in the shadows. So I'm going to sponsor some take-all-comer organized PvP, just on terms that make it a truly fair fight. I'm not a PvPer, I don't have PvP skills, but I'm rich enough to see how good I can stand up to the big epeens without having to fly to their space.
The Event: I'm going to host a take-all-comers battleship contest. IE, I take all challengers.
The ISK: I haven't decided on what is appropriate for an entry, but I'm thinking either 250 million ISK entry fee, 2.5 billion ISK reward for defeating me, or 500 million ISK entry, 5 billion ISK reward. Either way, I'm presuming that anyone who is willing to throw down in a battleship can afford 250 / 500 million, especially for a chance to win 10x their entry fee.
Caveats:
1. Each fight will be arranged in advance between myself and the entrant. Each person will be in gang with an unskilled referee alt, and the prize money will be held by a trusted third party. I haven't negotiated that part yet, but I'll probably look up BIG, IRON, or one of the other major parties that people feel confident giving money to. Part of the entry fee from each contestant will go to pay for the referees.
2. Ship equipment: I plan on leaving this open, potentially with the exception of disallowing warp scramblers. A referee would scan each entrant to insure that their fittings are proper. This is in part to prevent corp members warping in to help, which the unskilled referee gang member is also supposed to help negate. If there are no warp scramblers allowed, then obviously warping away acts as surrender. Both warping out and ship destruction serve as loss notifications.
3. Location: The battles would take place in high security systems, in safe-spots. High security is the only way to insure 1v1. The only way I can think of initiating aggro is through stealing a cargo container. I understand that stealing a cargo container from somewhere makes you aggro to the entire corp, which is why both fighters will be in high-sec, in a safe-spot, and in gang with a neutral third party to prevent. I need to experiment with this a little bit. I can't shoot at a corp mate (NPC corp) so it may be true that another player can steal a cargo container from me and only aggro me. However, I need to find out if shooting at someone criminally flagged to me makes me aggro to their entire corporation. Regardless, I think we can presume that making it so that if an contestant's corp member(s) warp in, they forfeit the fight.
4. That's what I have so far. There need be no ship or fitting disclosure. Both myself and anyone who enters are willing to fly whatever they want to and fit it however they want to -- I haven't decided about the warp disruptors yet. Both sides will see what the other are flying and fitted in what when they get warped into the safe spot by the referees.
So here's my questions for the community. Is this interesting? Would you enter? Under what conditions? Any suggestions for improvement?
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.11.22 21:25:00 -
[2]
If you have as much pvp skills as you claim, the first nosphoon will lay waste to you.
Alas, nice idea but i can see it turning very bad for your wallet, very quick.
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 21:48:00 -
[3]
That could be, and I might very well only see one battle and decide that's enough. Regardless....like I said -- I'm not soliciting feedback on whether you think its a good idea or not, just looking for suggestions on improving the method.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.23 05:25:00 -
[4]
Could also be used as a front for a lofty style navy raven gankathron
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Maniakas
STEEL FIST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:15:00 -
[5]
First curzon, u can attack any1 in your gang without any penalties or getting attacked by concord. So no need to steal containers. Other thing is what kinda set ups are allowed? Are we allowed to use jammers and disrupters? And how does the fight would start and is it just 1vs1?
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Intigo
Amarr Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2006.11.23 16:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Maniakas First curzon, u can attack any1 in your gang without any penalties or getting attacked by concord.
Wrong. -- Piewat! Low SP piracy Now with more stories and small clips! |
syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.23 21:01:00 -
[7]
A personal standing of 10.0 is required for fights inside gangs, no ? . ------------------------- Rats, Rats The Magical Fruit, The More You Pop, The More You Loot ! |
Aftiel Ascendant
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.23 22:18:00 -
[8]
First off, I applaud the effort and the idea.
I know a lot of 'purists' might flame the idea and tell him to come join some real PvP, but I'm rather old-school, and there's definatly something to be said for organized, honorable combat.
Kinda fight-club-esque. Admits that he might not be the best, but wants to test himself to find out.
Is it interesting- -Definatly.
Would I enter- If I could afford it. I can't.
Suggestions- what about the CCP organized tourneys? I know...Alliance and so on, but there's gotta be a walk-in racket or a drug-deal with somebody. I didn't read all the tourney rules, so I dunno. And def be careful.
"The avalanche has already begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote" *Any posts made by me are my personal opinion and in no way reflect the view of my Alliance or Corp |
Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:19:00 -
[9]
To the question on fittings: I said in the original post that any fittings would be allowed. I'm not sure whether I want to allow warp disruptors or not. Since its 1v1 there shouldn't be any need to warp disrupt, and despite whatever precautions I might take, there's still the remote possibility that someone could get corp members to come along and ruin the fight. In which case, a warp out would be allowed. Although...at the same time, disallowing warp disruptors would mean that myself or the person I'm fighting could run away instead of getting blown up. And if they're vicious, I think I'd really want to blow them up. And vice versus.
To the note on gangs: I would not be in gang with the entrant. There would be 5 people at the fight: Two hired referees - one of them in my gang, and one of them in my opponent's gang. And the gangs would consist of only those two people. That would insure that there are no in-system gang buffs happening, and that they couldn't have friends show up by warping to the gang member. Which still means that cargo-container stealing is the only way I can think of to initiate hostility.
Any other thoughts? Questions? A couple people posted that they would enter but they can't afford it. Perhaps 250 fee / 2.5 billion payout and 500 million / 5 billion payout is too much? Maybe 100 million / 1 billion payout? I want to stick with 10:1 reward to risk ratio, but don't want to make it unaffordable.
Something I hadn't thought about yet...I could leave some individual fights open to folks; if they can't afford to front 250 million for a chance at 2.5 billion, I could support a 2:1 bet at whatever they can afford...although I think I would put a betting floor of 100 million up.
I *do* think that if you can't afford the entry fee, you shouldn't be fighting...because you really can't afford to potentially lose your ship.
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velmistr Ecco
Caldari InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:58:00 -
[10]
You have to consider that some players who wish to try to claim your prize have low standing. IMHO your fight should take place in low sec or in GM created arena.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.24 14:22:00 -
[11]
The carebears in my corp are excited by this idea and I have agreed that the corp will provide half the entry fee to any member taking part.
I wish you good luck in this venture and hope to meet you in battle one day.
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Kozak
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:49:00 -
[12]
I'm in. Let me know when and where.
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Curzon Dax on 24/11/2006 16:50:36 Velmistr, I understand that some people who would want to take part would have low security standing. They can either 1.) Work their security standing up, 2.) Get an alt, or 3.) Not take part.
Hosting this in low security systems would negate some of the security of the fight. Picture this scenario: We prepare a duel in 0.4 space, someone with a bad reputation signs up (I take all comers remember?) and shows up for the fight. Some of his pie-wat buddies are in system, scan the system to triangulate our position, warp in, and proceed to ruin the integrity of the duel. The only way to negate this is to hold in in high security.
Here's a hint -- if you're low security and want to participate, start ratting your security status back up. There's still a few crucial skills I need to train (heh...like my battleship skill...o.O) so we've got a little bit. I mean, I'm putting Exhumers L5 on hold!
And to the latest post, I suppose you could say this *is* intended to be PvP for carebears. :) But anyone who thinks they have an epeen big enough to smack me with it is welcome to stop ganking noobs from snipemobiles long enough to work their security status up high enough to come try it on with me.
*Edit* And I don't think the GMs would support this with special arenas. Although....if that were in development down the road, I'd certainly take advantage of it!
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DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:43:00 -
[14]
Organized EVE combat doesn't make any sense tbh. You take away the surprise, the fear, the panic, the calm, the doubt, the mistakes...
Then EVE becomes nothing besides a contest of A)Luck(With fittings) B)SP(Better SP decreases your chance of having bad luck with fittings) C)Money(Better fittings means less chance to have bad luck with bad fittings ^^)
Only exceptions to this is if your a complete n00b :P
Like me.
***
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ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2006.11.25 10:38:00 -
[15]
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.25 10:41:00 -
[16]
Defjam, you say that organized PvP doesn't make any sense...let me put PvP in its proper light for you.
0.0 - 0.4 PvP consists of one of four scenarios:
Scenario A.) You and your friends gang/fleet are camping/hunting and gankz0r someone else. Scenario B.) You get gankz0red by said gang/fleet. Scenario C.) You are minding your own business and accidentally stumble on a much less powerful neutral/enemy, and proceed to gankz0r them. Scenario D.) You just got gankz0red by someone much more powerful than you.
Get the idea? Lowsec / 0.0 is about who ganks who first. There's little to no skill involved. Which is why the devs are taking such a strong position on revising PvP out there -- its become a matter of who has more people; and blobbage is bad. There's no sport, no contest, not even a fight. You either ganked someone, or you got away from a gank.
I'm offering a chance for some real PvP. There's no gank involved. I don't have 60 million SP of PvP, I've never even killed another player in combat. But I think I'm decent enough to hold my own against said 60 million SP PvP-turds, and in a scenario where it isn't a gank or be ganked, I think battles will revolve around much more skill, intuition, brilliance, and strategy.
*shrug* I'm not asking for your approval. I don't care whether you like my idea or not. I'm going to do it anyway, and I bet there's plenty of people like me who will participate. In fact, the eve-mails are rolling in. =p What I'm looking for is FEEDBACK on the MECHANISM of the contest. Seriously. Thanks. Bye. =)
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Daemon Jax
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Posted - 2006.11.26 23:59:00 -
[17]
A lot of corps do intra-corp duels all the time. It is fun... I've seen the following rules:
1) Opponents use same class(es) of ship(s). 2) no EW 3) no warping / warp = surrender
It's fun if you make it fun... having prizes and some kind of ranking system... multi-teired fights.
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Soporo
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Posted - 2006.11.27 00:26:00 -
[18]
Multi-Tier fights, divided by ship class, and SP or Age would make more sense to me.
For those Vets that say a higher SP player only has a minimum/fractional advantage (and some do say that)....to be frank I dont believe it.
Great idea, too steep a fee for me though.
Out of curiosity how are the "referees" selected? The potential for payoff/mod abuse is there if anywhere.
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 05:53:00 -
[19]
I've given some thought to some of the posts here... =)
To the multi-tiered fights by SP and such: I'm not going to go through the trouble of getting screenshots or whatever would be required to verify people's age and skillpoint count. Perhaps there are some veterans out there who say that skillpoints only offer an incremental amount of benefit over someone with less skillpoints....I'm a noob who hasn't ever PvPed who is saying the same thing.
I'll be honest -- I don't have much in the way of battleship skills yet, I'm not quite sure how ECM works, and I fly a Hulk more than...well...anything else. Except for my Navitus (Speedy Wench) which is slick for getting around in a hurry. :) I don't think I'd support multi-tier battleship fights either. I want it to be a free-for-all, I take all comers. From what I read in the patch notes, ECM modules are all getting a 50% nerfbat on Tuesday, which comforts me a little bit, and I need to figure out how they work, and maybe look into sticking some on a battleship and playing around with it.
As for referees -- there isn't anything to pay off a referee for. I mentioned in the beginning about contracting out to BIG or someone to get some skill-less alts to referee the fights. The referee's only job is to be in gang with the fighter and make sure that only the two of them are in the gang. That's it. =p.
And I've been getting a lot of traffic about the entry fees. I think when I actually start hosting this, I'm going to have two tiers of entrants. Those who can cough up the money (I think we'll do 250 million and 2.5 billion payout) get a shot at a 10:1 payout. If you can't come up with the entry fee, you'll get a 2:1 straight wager. IE, you come to the fight with 50 million ISK and if you win you walk away with 100 million. In which case, I'd also take wagers from other people on fights. Obviously, I'd only cover bets against myself, because I'd plan on winning all my fights. Hrmm...if I offer a 2:1 deal straight bet, I would have to put a betting floor down, and perhaps rethink the ECM -- if the betting floor is 50 million ISK, its kind of pointless for someone to get a 50-100 million ISK battleship + mods blown up.
Obviously, this is all hypothetical at the moment. We'll see what Kali unleashes on Tuesday, how rigs change things up, and such.
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Exiled One
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.11.27 20:55:00 -
[20]
What about loot, can the winner scoop the loot? Seeing as you will be in a rattlesnake with +10bil worth of mods. It's great being Amarr, aint it? |
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:00:00 -
[21]
Of course the winner can scoop the loot. Rattlesnake eh? I'll have to look one of those up. I don't have any faction ships or anything yet. :(
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Screamer
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:15:00 -
[22]
I like the idea. Sounds good as log as we have a ref (GM). Ofcourse before any fighting starts I would need to know the GM has the isk to pay the winner. You could have the isk to pay but that doesnt mean you will. Alot of dis-honorable players try to play the role of an honorable player. Thats how the get their rocks off. You can ask probably in every region of eve about me. I am all about honor. Not to say I havent ganked also but honor to me is the key and to have an honorable fight for prizes sounds like its just to good to be true. But on the other note if this thing does go down please make sure I get my invite.
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:54:00 -
[23]
Screamer:
I don't think that a GM (CCP authority) would step in to referee this. I've touched base with Tornsoul (BIG CEO) who does all the billions per week lotteries. I think he's probably among the most known and trusted figures in Eve. I'd put 5 billion ISK in holding with him and have him verify it on an official thread.
As for referees, I'm still stuck. I don't need a GM referee. A couple of identified alts of established and trusted people would work. I talked to Tornsoul about hiring some of his people but he said that there's either not enough money in the galaxy to hire them, or if they had a price, it wouldn't be worth the cost. So...I'll look elsewhere. The only refereeing needed is to:
A. Insure that there is no one else in gang (hired player alt = referee) B. Scan both ships prior to the contest beginning if there are fitting constraints (3rd referee here)
That's it. If I could, I'd hire a few folks to sit by with huge freakin' guns to take down anyone who shows up to interrupt the duel, but that's not possible in highsec.
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Sonlatur
Minmatar Matari Raiders
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Posted - 2006.12.01 01:13:00 -
[24]
Sounds tempting. Unfortunately, i cant really afford the 250 M entrance and my battleship skills are bad anyways.
What i wanted to say: The gang thing will not keep you safe from warp ins from corp mates anymore due to the new scanning system. People can find your spot quickly.
-- "Greetings fellow pod pilot. I am Sonlatur of the Sebiestor tribe and you have become a target in my war against the Evil Amarr Empire. Ransom negotiations are possible." |
Kehmor
Caldari PAK
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Posted - 2006.12.01 01:35:00 -
[25]
1) who holds onto the money during the fight?
2) limitations on faction gear/implants?
3) where do i sign up?
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 02:21:00 -
[26]
Kehmor, if you read the rest of the thread, all your questions have been answered already.
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keng 3
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:28:00 -
[27]
Edited by: keng 3 on 04/12/2006 13:33:15 FFS its not that hard to do this , its been done plenty of times. Any fool would be dumb to actually underestimate that your just a carebear, im sure you probable have your second account character logged off in 0.0 carebear ganking, gate camping, fleet owning, trashing talking all the poor little villgers out there. I can assure you that any one that agrees to this event is going to get there ass handed to them. " You can fly a hulk but you dont know what ECM is " hmm any experience pvp players can see through that. If anything this whole thing is just a scam any fool that think they can beat you easly and walk away with 5 billion, its more like thank you for your 250 mill better luck next time kid....
The real question everyone should be asking is are you really man of your word , will you actually give us 5 billion if some one happens to beat you . Are you trying to prove that your the best pvp out there? Or is this just a big publicity stunt to get your name out there. Im sure there are plenty of lengendary pvp players out there that would be more then happy to give you a lesson or two about 1v1 for free, but why would they give you the time and isk . If your truley genuie id say just give us 250 mill each and well fight you . If we lose , we give you your isk back , we win we keep the 250 mill and you can have more 1v1 fights untill you ve lost up to 5 billion .
As far as security goes its no brainer...
" Create a Fight Club Corp " i join your corp , the referee joins your corp, its just the 3 of us. you give all the viewers the date and time the event will be , we all show up at a planet and have a gladiators match to see who will win . Anyone interferes gets wtfpwn by concord. After its all said and done , we disband form the corp . The winner walks away with prize... No cans to worried about stealing , no fear of getting ganked by others, and no worry about the crediability of the match with the amount of witness watching the fight.
But let's be real here..." you really dont know what ECM is? Please if anything your reallying a not miner but a genuis entrepreneur looking for opportunites to exploit.
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 12:51:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Curzon Dax on 05/12/2006 13:05:08
*EDIT* Fixed a spelling error in my rant. :) I also forgot to mention that this won't start for a month or two because I need battleship skills.
Alright forum wench. You're right. I'm some super awesome 0.0 camping noob-smacking trash talking turd tossing replica of your pedophile-molested, kiddy-scripting, h@xx0r l337 juvenile delinquent wannabe, run-home-and-tell-mommy-that-the-principal-touched-me-there, sorry excuse for intelligent life, immature, asinine, self-mutilating, cat-beating, *****-baby self.
Its not possible that your extremely limited imagination couldn't extend in scope to encompass the motives of someone with more creativity than you. I've lived my life in Empire space thus far, and its been quite profitable. Yes, I fly a Hulk, and why would I need ECM? Belt rats don't shoot very hard. I sold 39 million tritanium last night (along with all my mission Omber and reprocessed stuff). My motives appear to be beyond your grasp, but imagine if you will that there is someone in the galaxy with the funds to back their own arena, and the unwillingness to go find PvP in a cheaper setting because he despises people just like you.
The prize isn't in question: I've arranged with Tornsoul to hold prize funds. I'm still working on event security, but I'm not going to believe that all possible contestants are going to be willing to leave their corporation to participate.
But seriously keng 3...if I had any interest or inclination to engage in conversation or battle with someone like you, I would either join the 0.0 rabble or volunteer to teach special education in an inner-city slum in some third world country where mind-warping drugs are rationed into people's diets.
As charming as your flaming abilities doubtlessly are in your pedophile-plagued kiddy chatrooms where you pretend to be a girl, or have a girlfriend, and safely rest behind the anonymity of your computer screen to throw vile words out against a world that hates your for your smell...well it just doesn't cut it in the world of those who have advanced past puberty.
So please...why don't you go back to trying to entice your dog to pleasure you with your peanut butter covered proboscis, stop bothering more imaginative people your elder, your betters, your pimps, and mentally prepare yourself for your nightly session of "Daddy that doesn't feel good please stop." You are one perturbed boy, and I sort of hope that one day, when you find college in your path, a science experiments on you goes brutally wrong and renders you into something resembling passable humanity rather than the walking offal that you smell like now.
Go flame somewhere else.
*Carebears with Teeth* RAWR!
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Dark Flare
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:59:00 -
[29]
Unfortunately, I cannot afford to enter. However, I am willing to play the part of a Referee if you're taking applications for that. My Corp can vouch for me that I'll not do anything untoward, and .PBLM probably would too (the local anti-pirate corp in Kubinen).
I could bring anything as big as a Battlecruiser to referee in currently, if it starts in a couple of months as you say, I'll be able to bring a Raven, which should help with rule enforcement. There is one thing I would suggest, however. Have the fights in low-sec, in a safe spot. This would still give a great deal of protection against ganks, and would let the rule-enforcers join the fight if needs be without CONCORD getting all angry.
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Curzon Dax
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 19:13:00 -
[30]
Dark Flare, I've been thinking about the lowsec, and you've got a point. I think logistically wise, it wouldn't make sense to do this in high-sec with all the troubles I'd be going through to set up an uninterrupted match, although I may have come across a solution. =) It needs a bit of exploration.
Referees are intended to be folks without any gang-bonus skills. I wouldn't take applications for this though -- I would go find someone to hire; I'm looking at some of the mercenary corporations right now.
I think the solution to the possible gank in highsec by corpmates is to set up the matches in a series of very remote and untrafficked high-security systems, dead end or some such. The entrants would be forewarned that none of their corp mates are allowed into the system for the duration of the match, and that if any of them show up in local, they forfeit their entry fee. And I mean *TRULY* dead systems where no one goes. I have a couple of potential places in mind that I'm going to go check out.
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