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Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
26
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Posted - 2015.06.16 19:19:16 -
[1] - Quote
Why are character names important when you can trade toons between players. If player A has a toon name Badazz the Destroyer and it is a 180million SP toon. If said toon is sold to player B. Why is it important to keep that name associated with that toon? Player B no longer acts in the way player A did - He no longer has afflications with the same groups or people. Player B in no way is the same person as player A. He just now owns his toon and appears from game prospective to be the same person.
So why is keeping the name important at all? I for one, think that a toons name should be changed once it changes hands from one player to another player. So that people aren't mislead and think that their trusted friend and long time alley is the same player. Or that there should be some sort of identifying marking that control of the toon has switch hands. |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
86
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Posted - 2015.06.16 19:52:12 -
[2] - Quote
I used to play an mmo where you could change your name on the fly.. It was Chaos. Darkspace.
I get it. I absolutely HATE my name!. But its who I am in eve now. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8191
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:54:16 -
[3] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote:Why are character names important when you can trade toons between players. When you buy a character, you are also buying that character's "reputation."
It doesn't matter if you are different player and/or you act/do stuff differently from the previous owner. If that character is infamous and has pissed off a lot of people, you will be reaping the "benefits" of that reputation.
That is the "tradeoff" with being able to "buy skillpoints." You never completely know if the character you are getting is liked, "blacklisted," or neutral to other players.
Styphon the Black wrote: I for one, think that a toons name should be changed once it changes hands from one player to another player. So that people aren't mislead and think that their trusted friend and long time alley is the same player. Or that there should be some sort of identifying marking that control of the toon has switch hands. If you can change the name of a character after every character transfer... people with "bad reputations" and multiple accounts will be able to transfer between those accounts and wipe their character's "histories" (NOTE: the cost of a PLEX is small for some players). Then they will do their shenanigans all over again.
If you add a "history tab" of previous names... well... you will STILL be associated with the bad activities the previous character name did when joining a decent corporation (via an API check) and you'll create frustration among players because at-a-glance "name recognition" will not be a thing anymore (NOTE: this does happen. I have learned to stay away from certain people when they enter local).
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Memphis Baas
463
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Posted - 2015.06.16 20:33:50 -
[4] - Quote
It's the way it currently is, in this game. If you wish to propose a change, do so in the Features and Ideas forum, as that's where the devs look anyway. Make a post, and you'll get comments from the rest of the playerbase, and hopefully a dev will see your post and comment or add it to the list of things to do. |
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 21:54:52 -
[5] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Styphon the Black wrote:Why are character names important when you can trade toons between players. When you buy a character, you are also buying that character's "reputation." It doesn't matter if you are different player and/or you act/do stuff differently from the previous owner. If that character is infamous and has pissed off a lot of people, you will be reaping the "benefits" of that reputation. That is the "tradeoff" with being able to "buy skillpoints." You never completely know if the character you are getting is liked, "blacklisted," or neutral to other players. Styphon the Black wrote: I for one, think that a toons name should be changed once it changes hands from one player to another player. So that people aren't mislead and think that their trusted friend and long time alley is the same player. Or that there should be some sort of identifying marking that control of the toon has switch hands. If you can change the name of a character after every character transfer... people with "bad reputations" and multiple accounts will be able to transfer between those accounts and wipe their character's "histories" (NOTE: the cost of a PLEX is small for some players). Then they will do their shenanigans all over again. If you add a "history tab" of previous names... well... you will STILL be associated with the bad activities the previous character name did when joining a decent corporation (via an API check) and you'll create frustration among players because at-a-glance "name recognition" will not be a thing anymore (NOTE: this does happen. I have learned to stay away from certain people when they enter local).
But what is the point of "character history" it is meanless if it is a completely different person behind the controls. You would not need to stay way from "Jimbobjones" because he is no longer controlled by the same owner. Thus a new name would give the toon a completely new history to match the new owner of the toon.
I think that there should be a way to see the old history to. On the info or character sheet that can be ID'd as quickly as you could id corp or alliance affliation. I just think that if the person controlling the toon is now different, than the name should change also so people know just as easily that this person isn't the same one who used to own the character. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10107
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Posted - 2015.06.16 22:23:37 -
[6] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Styphon the Black wrote:Why are character names important when you can trade toons between players. When you buy a character, you are also buying that character's "reputation." It doesn't matter if you are different player and/or you act/do stuff differently from the previous owner. If that character is infamous and has pissed off a lot of people, you will be reaping the "benefits" of that reputation. That is the "tradeoff" with being able to "buy skillpoints." You never completely know if the character you are getting is liked, "blacklisted," or neutral to other players. Styphon the Black wrote: I for one, think that a toons name should be changed once it changes hands from one player to another player. So that people aren't mislead and think that their trusted friend and long time alley is the same player. Or that there should be some sort of identifying marking that control of the toon has switch hands. If you can change the name of a character after every character transfer... people with "bad reputations" and multiple accounts will be able to transfer between those accounts and wipe their character's "histories" (NOTE: the cost of a PLEX is small for some players). Then they will do their shenanigans all over again. If you add a "history tab" of previous names... well... you will STILL be associated with the bad activities the previous character name did when joining a decent corporation (via an API check) and you'll create frustration among players because at-a-glance "name recognition" will not be a thing anymore (NOTE: this does happen. I have learned to stay away from certain people when they enter local). But what is the point of "character history" it is meanless if it is a completely different person behind the controls. You would not need to stay way from "Jimbobjones" because he is no longer controlled by the same owner. Thus a new name would give the toon a completely new history to match the new owner of the toon. I think that there should be a way to see the old history to. On the info or character sheet that can be ID'd as quickly as you could id corp or alliance affliation. I just think that if the person controlling the toon is now different, than the name should change also so people know just as easily that this person isn't the same one who used to own the character. you are being rather earnest about this.
you need to think : how could a wealthy and determined player abuse this?
the answer is : quite easily
this is s subject that's been brought up many times before and the last time a csm member mentioned that it might be gaining some traction with ccp however "might was the operative word here.
personally im in favour provided its prohibitive expensive and i can still search for the artist formerly know as prince and get a hit for whatever he is calling himself now AND be able to tell its him by clicking "show info" should i think i see him in local.
reputation matters here for better or worse, we are the content here you cant go erasing that so easily.
=]|[=
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8192
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Posted - 2015.06.16 22:36:28 -
[7] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote:But what is the point of "character history" it is meanless if it is a completely different person behind the controls. You would not need to stay way from "Jimbobjones" because he is no longer controlled by the same owner. Thus a new name would give the toon a completely new history to match the new owner of the toon. Because...
ShahFluffers wrote:If you can change the name of a character after every character transfer... people with "bad reputations" and multiple accounts will be able to transfer between those accounts and wipe their character's "histories" (NOTE: the cost of a PLEX is small for some players). Then they will do their shenanigans all over again. Bear in mind that... trading characters between accounts owned by the same person AND trading characters between accounts owned by two different people...
... are functionally and mechanically the same thing.
Hell... people who know each other can swap characters if CCP tries to do IP-address checks (which are trivial to get around in the first place).
Welcome to EVE... where each and every mechanic that has existed (or ever will exist) in this game has been perverted and turned on its head. Any changes you ask for have to take this very real fact into account.
Styphon the Black wrote:I think that there should be a way to see the old history to. On the info or character sheet that can be ID'd as quickly as you could id corp or alliance affliation. I just think that if the person controlling the toon is now different, than the name should change also so people know just as easily that this person isn't the same one who used to own the character. If I have to rummage through a a character's info screen and scroll through previous names for even a few seconds... I have wasted precious time I could have used to make a tactical decision that can mean the difference between escaping, destroying, or being destroyed.
And again... just because a name is different... it won't matter to some groups who run a "history check." They have no way to confirm that you are not the same player as before and did not abuse the system to get a "clean slate."
Hell... there are some people that refuse to talk to me right now (and sometimes actively shoot at me) because I spent a grand total of 2 weeks in a certain null-sec alliance that has all but vanished today. And they know me based on my name in local.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
603
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:34:47 -
[8] - Quote
Buying and selling characters is a much bigger deal than just changing a name. You can buy a character with more skill points than your current one has and still not be able to do all the things that you do or fly what you like to fly or fly it the same way or in the same space.
With characters not only goes skill points and reputation but standing and history as well. These things are taken into account when people buy characters and no matter how many skill points a character has if you pull a Bartman that character could wind up being of very little value.
Eve is a game about reputation. It's a game about decisions and consequences. Persistence is a huge part of that. This is not a theme park MMO where they are focused on allowing you to: name change, race change, faction change, or most other forms of endless character make overs to satisfy a players whims. CCP's focus in creating eve was to create a medium where people could create characters that were persistent and where your actions had real consequences. Then create mechanics which encourage struggle and drama. While the ability to sell and buy characters may bypass that to some degree it is nowhere near at the level of what name changes would do. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
662
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 11:13:52 -
[9] - Quote
Do you want the in-game or OOC explanation?
In-game: your name represents a unique hash for your character including skills, etc, that other capsuleers know you by, even though non-capsuleers can't tell one of us from another because we can fake it for most of their ability to see through our firewalls (e.g. L1 agents will still give you missions at -10 faction). The only way to fool other capsuleers is to change your entire brainwave pattern and substitute another (bought off the character market), at which point they'll read the unique hash of the new form.
OOC, balancing a game around user-created content _requires_ continuity of identification, because if people can't be easily associated with the content they've created then other people can't respond. Without the action-response dynamic the 'game' part of Eve doesn't exist, and that's literally the only selling point Eve has. Name changes would kill the game dead almost instantly. |
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 14:48:30 -
[10] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Eve is a game about reputation. It's a game about decisions and consequences. Persistence is a huge part of that. This is not a theme park MMO where they are focused on allowing you to: name change, race change, faction change, or most other forms of endless character make overs to satisfy a players whims. CCP's focus in creating eve was to create a medium where people could create characters that were persistent and where your actions had real consequences. Then create mechanics which encourage struggle and drama. While the ability to sell and buy characters may bypass that to some degree it is nowhere near at the level of what name changes would do.
Everything you said would be completely valid if character trading did not exist and the same player always was behind the controls of that toon. However, since character trading is allowed almost everything about reputation is rather pointless. Bartman is no longer being owned and run by player A. Who was friends with Super Alliance 1. He is now being run by player B who has no alliance afflication. Unlike player A who was a PVP master, Play B is a carebear that purchased a toon and has never got a solo kill in his life.
It would be easy for the old friends, alleys and enemies of Bartman (while under control of player A) to identify that Bartman is no longer being used by player A if Bartman was forced to change his name at the time of character transfer to player B. Also to build upon character "history" or reputation you can always, just like corp histroy, see the alternate names of the newly named toon. |
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Aradrox Jinn
Legio X Latro Villore Accords
0
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Posted - 2015.06.18 00:26:22 -
[11] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:I used to play an mmo where you could change your name on the fly.. It was Chaos. Darkspace.
I get it. I absolutely HATE my name!. But its who I am in eve now. I use to play DS aswell great game but no player base. EAD ftw |
Aradrox Jinn
Legio X Latro Villore Accords
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 00:31:58 -
[12] - Quote
I think instead of allowing a wipe of history or change of name. It should be added to employment history that the character was traded. This way players can "prove" that the character was atleast traded and may in turn be able to gain the trust of the corp/players they would of been unable to in the past. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8212
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 05:06:21 -
[13] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote:Everything you said would be completely valid if character trading did not exist and the same player always was behind the controls of that toon. However, since character trading is allowed almost everything about reputation is rather pointless. Character trading is a necessary evil to fight against scourges even worse than "lack of reputation"; Real Money Trading and stolen accounts.
Originally... CCP didn't have character trading because it felt quite strongly about people's reputations being a part of the experience of EVE. However... fighting against character/account trading is a losing battle because people will just do it anyways... often on "back alley sites" where the player is often screwed over by people who want to steal accounts and use characters to farm stuff for RMT purposes.
So, the DEVs allow for character trading... but it is all manually done by a DEV who checks (hopefully) over each account to make sure they are "clean" and makes the transfer.
CCP keeps money that could have gone to 3rd party sites... player transactions are more secure... no one gets banned... and all for the price of a little immersion.
Styphon the Black wrote:All reasons discussed thus far for being against name changing, the ability to trade characters actually allows. You don't have to live with your consequences when you trade and run another toon. You don't have to keep the same name. You don't have a history that follows you. With toon trading allowed all the reasons for not being able to change names is made moot. You are just trading your history and consequences for someone elses. You are a little thick aren't you?
Ignoring the "abuse" of a name changing system that I mentioned above.
How are you going to prevent people from trading characters between their separate accounts and changing their names to avoid being recognized?
And remember.... - IP address checks won't work (easy to get around and often unreliable) - a person can swap characters with a "clean" buddy (another player) and do dastardly things with the character.
Styphon the Black wrote:Bartman is no longer being owned and run by player A. Who was friends with Super Alliance 1. He is now being run by player B who has no alliance afflication. Unlike player A who was a PVP master, Play B is a carebear that purchased a toon and has never got a solo kill in his life. Doesn't matter.
The reputation that Player A built up with the character in question is a part of that character's history. When Player B bought the character he/she also bought the reputation of said character.
Again, that is the tradeoff with buying characters.
Styphon the Black wrote:It would be easy for the old friends, alleys and enemies of Bartman (while under control of player A) to identify that Bartman is no longer being used by player A if Bartman was forced to change his name at the time of character transfer to player B. No it wouldn't.
If enemies of Player A only know him/her through the character in question, they would still see that character as belonging to Player A. They will simply assume that Player A has swapped the character between accounts to change the name. Why?
Because there is NO WAY TO CONFIRM that Player A and Player B are a different players... because a single player with multiple accounts is functionally no different than there being multiple players with single accounts.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
|
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:02:37 -
[14] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote: Everything you said would be completely valid if character trading did not exist and the same player always was behind the controls of that toon. However, since character trading is allowed almost everything about reputation is rather pointless. All reasons discussed thus far for being against name changing, the ability to trade characters actually allows. You don't have to live with your consequences when you trade and run another toon. You don't have to keep the same name. You don't have a history that follows you. With toon trading allowed all the reasons for not being able to change names is made moot. You are just trading your history and consequences for someone elses.
Bartman is no longer being owned and run by player A. Who was friends with Super Alliance 1. He is now being run by player B who has no alliance afflication. Unlike player A who was a PVP master, Play B is a carebear that purchased a toon and has never got a solo kill in his life.
It would be easy for the old friends, alleys and enemies of Bartman (while under control of player A) to identify that Bartman is no longer being used by player A if Bartman was forced to change his name at the time of character transfer to player B. Also to build upon character "history" or reputation you can always, just like corp histroy, see the alternate names of the newly named toon.
Tell us who you pissed off so much that you need to change your name, please.
But seriously, letting people scam/awox for billions, sell that character to their alt/friend/brother, change the name and scam again is game breaking. People would exploit this. |
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:07:39 -
[15] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
But seriously, letting people scam/awox for billions, sell that character to their alt/friend/brother, change the name and scam again is game breaking. People would exploit this.
Character trading (as it exists today) allows what you just said "is game breaking". |
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:17:21 -
[16] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:
But seriously, letting people scam/awox for billions, sell that character to their alt/friend/brother, change the name and scam again is game breaking. People would exploit this.
Character trading (as it exists today) allows what you just said "is game breaking".
No it doesn't. Lying about having bought or sold a character is a not taken lightly by CCP. EVE is a universe with consequences, if you scam someone and make a bad name for yourself, either live with the consequences or give up that character. Any scam whatsoever related to character sale gets you a permanent ban from the game. |
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:25:39 -
[17] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Styphon the Black wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:
But seriously, letting people scam/awox for billions, sell that character to their alt/friend/brother, change the name and scam again is game breaking. People would exploit this.
Character trading (as it exists today) allows what you just said "is game breaking". No it doesn't. Lying about having bought or sold a character is a not taken lightly by CCP. EVE is a universe with consequences, if you scam someone and make a bad name for yourself, either live with the consequences or give up that character. Any scam whatsoever related to character sale gets you a permanent ban from the game.
You can "Cidanel Afuran" awox/corp theft/scam or otherwise with your toon until your heart is happy with the massive pile of ill gotten gains.
Then create another account or just another toon on the same account and give all that wealth to the new character. You can then purchase any toon off of the character bazaar that is available using the same wealth.
So now you have a completely new history/name/toon everything and nobody in the game would know the difference unless you told the.
You can then do whatever you wish with the old awox/scammer toon you wish. Sell it, hold onto it, biomass it doesn't matter.
All these things that you say are so horrible that will "kill the game". Exist in EVE as it is today. |
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
63
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:42:41 -
[18] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote:You can "Cidanel Afuran" awox/corp theft/scam or otherwise with your toon until your heart is happy with the massive pile of ill gotten gains.
Then create another account or just another toon on the same account and give all that wealth to the new character. You can then purchase any toon off of the character bazaar that is available using the same wealth.
So now you have a completely new history/name/toon everything and nobody in the game would know the difference unless you told them.
You can then do whatever you wish with the old awox/scammer toon you wish. Sell it, hold onto it, biomass it doesn't matter.
All these things that you say are so horrible that will "kill the game". Exist in EVE as it is today.
At the cost of me losing the Cidanel character. Using your way of thinking, I could keep this character.
You have been told that multiple times. You refuse to listen.
Renaming characters will never, never be a feature in EVE. Let it go. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3887
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 21:04:28 -
[19] - Quote
We have four topics beating this dead horse on the first page of NCQ&A, one of which was necroed for a second time.
There are no name change services barring exceptional circumstances (deemed so SOLELY by CCP). That stays the way it is until CCP decide otherwise. If you want to discuss it, take it to Feature and Ideas.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
27
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:27:18 -
[20] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:We have four topics beating this dead horse on the first page of NCQ&A, one of which was necroed for a second time.
There are no name change services barring exceptional circumstances (deemed so SOLELY by CCP). That stays the way it is until CCP decide otherwise. If you want to discuss it, take it to Feature and Ideas.
Sure thing. "Powers that be" please move this thread this forum to Feature and Ideas. (Also please don't kill the discussion on the first post, just because it a similar idea was discussed perviously that can no longer be posted on). |
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
63
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:39:02 -
[21] - Quote
Styphon the Black wrote: Sure thing. "Powers that be" please move this thread this forum to Feature and Ideas. (Also please don't kill the discussion on the first post, just because it a similar idea was discussed perviously that can no longer be posted on).
Quote: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
is what I guess the response will be |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 05:39:56 -
[22] - Quote
Aradrox Jinn wrote:Darth Terona wrote:I used to play an mmo where you could change your name on the fly.. It was Chaos. Darkspace.
I get it. I absolutely HATE my name!. But its who I am in eve now. I use to play DS aswell great game but no player base. EAD ftw
I was known as Defiance. Creator of Faster Than Light fleet, and the seventh in the world to achieve the rank of chief marshal flying exclusive for ICC. You are?
:) small world :) |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
823
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 12:52:10 -
[23] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:However... fighting against character/account trading is a losing battle because people will just do it anyways... often on "back alley sites" where the player is often screwed over by people who want to steal accounts and use characters to farm stuff for RMT purposes. For a second I thought you were talking about drug prohibition.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1138
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Posted - 2015.06.25 11:33:41 -
[24] - Quote
Everytime some N4RuT04201337xX crosses my path I wish name changes would be a thing. |
Lulu Lunette
Custodes Olim United Systems of Aridia
43
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Posted - 2015.06.26 11:54:14 -
[25] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Everytime some N4RuT04201337xX crosses my path I wish name changes would be a thing.
lol yeah
@lunettelulu7
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
409
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Posted - 2015.06.26 22:14:55 -
[26] - Quote
Trolling. You are doing it right! |
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