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Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
166
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Posted - 2015.06.18 08:58:17 -
[1] - Quote
I am just curious of what the general opinion is on this tactic?
I know it has been around forever. I am just seeing it used in such frequency in Lowsec lately that my buttmad is starting to show. It's a bit annoying to have T1 ships with the same immunity to being pointed as a covert ship right off the gate. Of course there are tactics to combat these ships but its like taking an atom bomb to an anthill just to catch one.
Drops Mic
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Wacktopia
Noir. No Not Believing
791
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Posted - 2015.06.18 09:00:12 -
[2] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:my buttmad is starting to show
Lol - let it out. Let it all out.
I think it's fairly legit - I've used it a fair bit. There's plenty of room for human error in there and it's counter-able if you know what you're doing so it feels ok to me.
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
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Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2015.06.18 09:03:02 -
[3] - Quote
It is annoying in LS, but less so in 0.0 where a solo Sabre can make this trick quite difficult to pull off.
In LS, just get a fast cepi and you'll catch them 40% of the time. Which means plenty of time to get him on one of the gates on his route ;)
Seriously, a cepi or sabre isn shooting ducks with cannons. It's just using the right tools. |
Chatelaine Superior
Angels Dust
0
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Posted - 2015.06.18 09:03:25 -
[4] - Quote
Easy ( or maybe not) to counter this. All you need is uncloak a ship before he uncloked by himself. Camp with ceptors and logistics and you will get these kills. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
724
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Posted - 2015.06.18 09:20:41 -
[5] - Quote
Imagine killing a dude taking some effort.... |
Vek Hareka
Fist Bumps All Around
33
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Posted - 2015.06.18 09:24:53 -
[6] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:I am just curious of what the general opinion is on this tactic?
I know it has been around forever. I am just seeing it used in such frequency in Lowsec lately that my buttmad is starting to show. It's a bit annoying to have T1 ships with the same immunity to being pointed as a covert ship right off the gate. Of course there are tactics to combat these ships but its like taking an atom bomb to an anthill just to catch one.
My opinion: I love this little magic trick.
It works (not in null though).
So does gate camping with resebo'ed wrecks... I mean Minmatar ships. Or pesky ceptors that almost nobody can catch.
All. Legit.
Use it. Counter it. Accept it. Roll with it.
Here comes a time, ganker,
When blingfits cease to sparkle,
When hermophite looses its luster,
When the station hangar becomes a prison
And all that is left is a capsuleer's love for his fedo.
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Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
166
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Posted - 2015.06.18 10:11:55 -
[7] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:Imagine killing a dude taking some effort....
I would like to imagine a little effort to be put forth from the dude not to be killed other than fitting a cloak and a MWD and instawarping from gate to gate.
I actually would rather put forth the effort to "catch" the guy rather than get a few SB BS on a gatecamp but this tactic leaves little choice in Lowsec.
I appreciate all the input thus far!
Drops Mic
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Keisha Tachyon
Irrational Tendencies Immediate Destruction
5
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Posted - 2015.06.18 10:28:21 -
[8] - Quote
They did put effort in. They fit a cloak on a ship normaly not suited to it. As in they have put on a travel fit.
As such you should not really see those as "missed" kills. Because let-¦s be honest, the Pilot put thought in the way he/she moved around. Meaning if that trick would stop working they would not be flying around unscouted in that ship anyway. |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 10:52:59 -
[9] - Quote
Keisha Tachyon wrote:They did put effort in. They fit a cloak on a ship normaly not suited to it. As in they have put on a travel fit.
As such you should not really see those as "missed" kills. Because let-¦s be honest, the Pilot put thought in the way he/she moved around. Meaning if that trick would stop working they would not be flying around unscouted in that ship anyway.
Fair enough, though I would disagree with you on the "they would not be flying around unscouted"
My question to you is, "Does this tactic, when used, devalue the role of blockade runners?"
Drops Mic
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Mr Duffo
Operation Meatshield
123
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Posted - 2015.06.18 11:10:37 -
[10] - Quote
I use it a lot. So easy to pass tama camps everytime with bustard. Crane still usefull to move modules fast with its great warp speed so wouldnt say they are useless
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4032
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Posted - 2015.06.18 11:21:38 -
[11] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:"Does this tactic, when used, devalue the role of blockade runners?" BRs align in a couple of seconds depending on fit, with MWD+cloak you have to always wait the entire 10-second MWD cycle. That makes it much easier to get decloaked and pointed in the latter case.
Also, much faster warp speed, covops cloak makes you invisible on dscan while warping, beefier tank (FWIW), etc...
Oh, and BRs look nicer too.
EDIT: also, gate camping is a legit but quite annoying form of PVP, it's only fair that players that take steps to protect themselves get a fair chance of escaping.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
92
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Posted - 2015.06.18 11:31:12 -
[12] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:Keisha Tachyon wrote:They did put effort in. They fit a cloak on a ship normaly not suited to it. As in they have put on a travel fit.
As such you should not really see those as "missed" kills. Because let-¦s be honest, the Pilot put thought in the way he/she moved around. Meaning if that trick would stop working they would not be flying around unscouted in that ship anyway. Fair enough, though I would disagree with you on the "they would not be flying around unscouted" My question to you is, "Does this tactic, when used, devalue the role of blockade runners?" The fact that you are comparing the mwd + cloak trick to a proper covert ops cloak shows you don't know much about about this.
The MWD cloak fitted ship has to make sacrifices and generally precludes the ship from any meaningful combat, it is still easy to catch them in null sec, and very possible to be caught by a gate camp in low sec. Most ships that use them will generally take the MWD cycle to get into warp so you have 10 seconds to uncloak them before they warp off.
Compare that to a blockade runner and you have a ship that is near on impossible to catch anywhere in space if the pilot doesn't screw up, with only a slight increased risk in null sec. |
Mag's
the united
19618
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Posted - 2015.06.18 11:32:39 -
[13] - Quote
I'm fine with it and feel it's part of the game.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Keisha Tachyon
Irrational Tendencies Immediate Destruction
7
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Posted - 2015.06.18 11:37:29 -
[14] - Quote
Dalto BaneFair enough, though I would disagree with you on the "they would not be flying around unscouted"[:lol: wrote:
My question to you is, "Does this tactic, when used, devalue the role of blockade runners?"
As has been said, BR-¦s are moving/aligning a lot faster than ships with normal cloak and mwd. As such they are still very good at actually evading ships incoming to decloak you. So they still work well in bubbles where a normal mwd/cloak is getting into trouble.
The ability to warp cloaked is also very nice to Scout gates in peace. |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
167
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Posted - 2015.06.18 11:56:02 -
[15] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:
The fact that you are comparing the mwd + cloak trick to a proper covert ops cloak shows you don't know much about about this.
The MWD cloak fitted ship has to make sacrifices and generally precludes the ship from any meaningful combat, it is still easy to catch them in null sec, and very possible to be caught by a gate camp in low sec. Most ships that use them will generally take the MWD cycle to get into warp so you have 10 seconds to uncloak them before they warp off.
Compare that to a blockade runner and you have a ship that is near on impossible to catch anywhere in space if the pilot doesn't screw up, with only a slight increased risk in null sec.
I actually have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject. I have also used this trick in the past. I was speaking in the general sense of the role of blockade runners (alibi-Deep space transports also). Their roles were specifically designed for Lowsec and Nullsec transport respectively.
Is it possible to catch a ship using MWD+cloak in Lowsec? sure, as long as you have a ship that can fly into and decloak it because, unfortunately, there aren't enough sebos and resebos in the game that can get scanres below the one sec server tick.
Drops Mic
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Khanid Voltar
S.A.S
48
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:02:28 -
[16] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:Is it possible to catch a ship using MWD+cloak in Lowsec? sure, as long as you have a ship that can fly into and decloak it because, unfortunately, there aren't enough sebos and resebos in the game that can get scanres below the one sec server tick.
So basically you are saying that because you can't be bothered to adapt your game style you think the practice should be nerfed?
Eveboard
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Nicholas Kirk
GFL Gentlemen's.Parlor
3
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:24:21 -
[17] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:It is annoying in LS, but less so in 0.0 where a solo Sabre can make this trick quite difficult to pull off.
In LS, just get a fast cepi and you'll catch them 40% of the time. Which means plenty of time to get him on one of the gates on his route ;)
Seriously, a cepi or sabre isn shooting ducks with cannons. It's just using the right tools. If never lost any of my low end low skilled alts in LS using this combo. WHs and null with bubbles and lots of frigs tho have snagged a few but LS 40% you're on crack. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
256
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:32:26 -
[18] - Quote
Nicholas Kirk wrote:Stacy Lone wrote:It is annoying in LS, but less so in 0.0 where a solo Sabre can make this trick quite difficult to pull off.
In LS, just get a fast cepi and you'll catch them 40% of the time. Which means plenty of time to get him on one of the gates on his route ;)
Seriously, a cepi or sabre isn shooting ducks with cannons. It's just using the right tools. If never lost any of my low end low skilled alts in LS using this combo. WHs and null with bubbles and lots of frigs tho have snagged a few but LS 40% you're on crack.
If you use a T3 with an interdictor nullifier then you can skip the cov ops offensive and use the MWD+Cloak trick. This is the best way to get a ratting T3 into otherwise un-useable null space.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Nicholas Kirk
GFL Gentlemen's.Parlor
3
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:33:50 -
[19] - Quote
Keisha Tachyon wrote:They did put effort in. They fit a cloak on a ship normaly not suited to it. As in they have put on a travel fit.
As such you should not really see those as "missed" kills. Because let-¦s be honest, the Pilot put thought in the way he/she moved around. Meaning if that trick would stop working they would not be flying around unscouted in that ship anyway. This
As I stated in my last post my low end skilled alts have basic skills but they can fit a travel fit in a fast frig making LS jumping safer then HS.
Using this cloak travel fit can be harder the bigger the ship tho but let's say a nano hull warped stabbed BS with or with out cloak is also hard to catch with out a dictor. |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
167
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:44:21 -
[20] - Quote
Khanid Voltar wrote:Dalto Bane wrote:Is it possible to catch a ship using MWD+cloak in Lowsec? sure, as long as you have a ship that can fly into and decloak it because, unfortunately, there aren't enough sebos and resebos in the game that can get scanres below the one sec server tick. So basically you are saying that because you can't be bothered to adapt your game style you think the practice should be nerfed?
I have not mentioned nerfing this mechanic in any of my post. It is not always about whether to nerf/buff/fix something. I honestly wanted to know other's opinions on the matter is all. I don't like it, doesn't mean I can't be bothered to adapt my game style.
Drops Mic
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Nicholas Kirk
GFL Gentlemen's.Parlor
3
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:47:10 -
[21] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Nicholas Kirk wrote:Stacy Lone wrote:It is annoying in LS, but less so in 0.0 where a solo Sabre can make this trick quite difficult to pull off.
In LS, just get a fast cepi and you'll catch them 40% of the time. Which means plenty of time to get him on one of the gates on his route ;)
Seriously, a cepi or sabre isn shooting ducks with cannons. It's just using the right tools. If never lost any of my low end low skilled alts in LS using this combo. WHs and null with bubbles and lots of frigs tho have snagged a few but LS 40% you're on crack. If you use a T3 with an interdictor nullifier then you can skip the cov ops offensive and use the MWD+Cloak trick. This is the best way to get a ratting T3 into otherwise un-useable null space.
This is true I as I have a fast GTFO high scanning res nulifide T3 that is travel fit to use the with the cloak and MWD that needs to escape while probing and relies on cloaking and moving off when theres lots of badies after jumping a WH or Null gate It's the same trick but with max skill and a covert cloak. But if allows me to stay on field to get Intel in ships. I've lost 1 in 2 years to an aggressive Null gang but never to LS. |
Nicholas Kirk
GFL Gentlemen's.Parlor
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 14:02:07 -
[22] - Quote
Also I won't use this trick with my viators. They need to align and warp asap and not wait the MWD pulse. Max nav and adv ship skill with nav implant makes my 2 viator alts impossible to catch running max cargo and only seen one snagged by remote boosted loki. Every other viator loss I had was replaced by CCP (decloaking on its own or some sort of lag issue where your being shot with no timer after jumping) or I went AFK while jumping lol |
Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
264
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Posted - 2015.06.18 15:49:30 -
[23] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:I am just curious of what the general opinion is on this tactic?
I know it has been around forever. I am just seeing it used in such frequency in Lowsec lately that my buttmad is starting to show. It's a bit annoying to have T1 ships with the same immunity to being pointed as a covert ship right off the gate. Of course there are tactics to combat these ships but its like taking an atom bomb to an anthill just to catch one. Huh? Your insta-lock don't work? QQ.
I survived Win95
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2328
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Posted - 2015.06.18 19:08:31 -
[24] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:I am just curious of what the general opinion is on this tactic?
I know it has been around forever. I am just seeing it used in such frequency in Lowsec lately that my buttmad is starting to show. It's a bit annoying to have T1 ships with the same immunity to being pointed as a covert ship right off the gate. Of course there are tactics to combat these ships but its like taking an atom bomb to an anthill just to catch one. Cloak+MWD trick is a perfect counter-balance to no talent scrubs camping a gate for easy kills. It actually takes more timing/mental effort than said gate-camp scrubs locking and F1'ing IMHO...
But if you are really butthurt you could ship your scrubbies into smart-bombing BS's, and also enjoy additional no-talent murders of transient interceptors also...
tldr; #scrubproblems
p.s. The proper sequence to doing this IMHO...
- Press Align - wait 1/2 second, hit hotkey for Cloak - IF("You cannot cloak because cloaked" message) THEN quickly hit hotkey for Cloak a second time (one ping only!) - Pulse MWD (press on, press off right away). You can still fire your MWD for 1-2 seconds after activating cloak, with benefit of not blooming your sig to speed enemy lock (because your cloaked right?). Many say MWD then Cloak, I say the reverse. - Wait for MWD to reach shutoff point, hit hotkey for Cloak (de-cloak) - Immediately mash warp-to
p.p.s. Your welcome. F
Would you like to know more?
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Freya Sertan
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
193
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Posted - 2015.06.18 19:14:07 -
[25] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:Keisha Tachyon wrote:They did put effort in. They fit a cloak on a ship normaly not suited to it. As in they have put on a travel fit.
As such you should not really see those as "missed" kills. Because let-¦s be honest, the Pilot put thought in the way he/she moved around. Meaning if that trick would stop working they would not be flying around unscouted in that ship anyway. Fair enough, though I would disagree with you on the "they would not be flying around unscouted" My question to you is, "Does this tactic, when used, devalue the role of blockade runners?"
Absolutely not. Any ship with enough PG and CPU can fit a cloak. Only certain ones can fit Covops cloaks. BRs and DSTs are cargo ships, obviously. I can MWD+Cloak trick with just about any hull in the game. Yeah, I COULD do it with a Tayra but that's why I fly a Crane. It's absolutely indispensible for ships that can't fit a Covops cloak.
Cloaking away from a gate isn't only the providence of BRs/DSTs. You make it sound like cloaking up and warping off in a Tristan breaks the value of a Crane.
When of course, it doesn't.
New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.
Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
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Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
168
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:01:24 -
[26] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Dalto Bane wrote:I am just curious of what the general opinion is on this tactic?
I know it has been around forever. I am just seeing it used in such frequency in Lowsec lately that my buttmad is starting to show. It's a bit annoying to have T1 ships with the same immunity to being pointed as a covert ship right off the gate. Of course there are tactics to combat these ships but its like taking an atom bomb to an anthill just to catch one. Cloak+MWD trick is a perfect counter-balance to no talent scrubs camping a gate for easy kills. It actually takes more timing/mental effort than said gate-camp scrubs locking and F1'ing IMHO... But if you are really butthurt you could ship your scrubbies into smart-bombing BS's, and also enjoy additional no-talent murders of transient interceptors also... tldr; #scrubproblems p.s. The proper sequence to doing this IMHO... - Press Align - wait 1/2 second, hit hotkey for Cloak - IF("You cannot cloak because cloaked" message) THEN quickly hit hotkey for Cloak a second time (one ping only!) - Pulse MWD (press on, press off right away). You can still fire your MWD for 1-2 seconds after activating cloak, with benefit of not blooming your sig to speed enemy lock (because your cloaked right?). Many say MWD then Cloak, I say the reverse. - Wait for MWD to reach shutoff point, hit hotkey for Cloak (de-cloak) - Immediately mash warp-to p.p.s. Your welcome. F
You and a few others have somehow interpreted my asking the perspective of the masses, and the fact that I am not fond of the cloak+MWD trick to me being in support of gatecamping. I have camped a gate or two in my time, but a large majority of kills I am associated with are legitimate hunter/killer roams and the kills on gates are ships being ran down, hence why these ships are getting away since we are not a "proper gatecamp". I have no interest in name calling or backhanded remarks. I would like to think some of you better than that.
Drops Mic
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
213
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:41:43 -
[27] - Quote
You should Google LeSkunk and his diatribe about this on the old forums. Now that was some butthurt RAGE!
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions.
Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character.
And character is everything. - author unknown
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
682
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:56:31 -
[28] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:I am just curious of what the general opinion is on this tactic?
I know it has been around forever. I am just seeing it used in such frequency in Lowsec lately that my buttmad is starting to show. It's a bit annoying to have T1 ships with the same immunity to being pointed as a covert ship right off the gate. Of course there are tactics to combat these ships but its like taking an atom bomb to an anthill just to catch one.
Ok. Now imagine I'm doing that. With stabs in the lows!
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Senirab Olacar
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.06.19 00:14:27 -
[29] - Quote
Was that you I dodged in Ruchy earlier today?
I'd sympathize if it were foolproof, but it's not. It takes more practiced use of shortcuts than [target] + [fire]. And just like the offensive modules, you can get burned by a bad tick or a twitchy finger. I've had cloak fail to engage on more than one occasion, leaving me a sitting duck.
Others already mentioned playstyles that can counter it. It's not guaranteed to work, but guaranteed PVP would be no different than mining.
Someone dismissed it above, but it absolutely increases lowsec content. It mitigates the risk enough for T1 haulers to enter lowsec, which makes it familiar and/or habitual practice, which both increases raw content and probably delivers more lazy people who haven't been caught in the last couple months.
With no ability to dodge the camps, those T1 haulers would be a myth in lowsec, rather than an expected event. You'd be camping *only* BRs. Is that content? |
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