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Triakis Cadelanne
Mount N' Do Alliance Name Already Taken
22
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Posted - 2015.06.20 15:47:27 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
After a lot relic & data in null sec, I've come to think they deserve some love from CCP. I'm not talking about a simple buff by increasing the loots, but their reward is fairly low most of the time.
What they've done with sleeper cache is really cool and I don't know why they don't do something like that with regular null / WH relic & data sites.
It'd make exploration more challenging, and more rewardful, making it a viable profession that would need a higher skill & ISK investment to be pushed at it's finest. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
819
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Posted - 2015.06.22 23:58:44 -
[2] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hello,
After a lot relic & data in null sec, I've come to think they deserve some love from CCP. I'm not talking about a simple buff by increasing the loots, but their reward is fairly low most of the time.
What they've done with sleeper cache is really cool and I don't know why they don't do something like that with regular null / WH relic & data sites.
It'd make exploration more challenging, and more rewardful, making it a viable profession that would need a higher skill & ISK investment to be pushed at it's finest.
Ehh, i'm just starting to get into exploration, and I'm not sure I entirely agree with you.
Data and Relic are likely fine how they are (though they could use the ISK buff). However, I'm thinking what you're looking for is increased spawn rates on ghost sites and sleeper caches, with potentially higher isk potential.
See, there's not a lot in the scope of "progression" in regards to exploration. You basically stay in HS until you have t2 ships and hacking modules and good scanning skills.
Would be nice to see the addition of more ghost and sleeper hacking sites.
Though, another thought would be the addition of actual combat sites, with exploration added.
IE, a site that you fly into and have to battle NPCs in order to hack the containers and/or unlock the gate to enter where the containers are.
This would give t3's, Stratios, and even the Nestor a purpose (assuming the sites are variable in size- IE, fleet content) |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
396
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Posted - 2015.06.23 16:29:22 -
[3] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hello,
After a lot relic & data in null sec, I've come to think they deserve some love from CCP. I'm not talking about a simple buff by increasing the loots, but their reward is fairly low most of the time.
What they've done with sleeper cache is really cool and I don't know why they don't do something like that with regular null / WH relic & data sites.
It'd make exploration more challenging, and more rewardful, making it a viable profession that would need a higher skill & ISK investment to be pushed at it's finest.
Yeah, more interesting PVE is always a good idea. Sometimes normal relic and data sites are more like forgotten trash heaps then sites you run. It doesn't have to be shooting enemies all the time, but at least something should happen sometimes to break up the monotony.
Hidden timers to blow up cans like in ghost sites or ancient mechanisms you have to operate like in Sleeper caches for example. Or sometimes you could find hints leading to some forgotten ancient ruin / hidden pirate stash. Adding relic and data sites to the expedition-system would be neat. Why should combat-sites be the only ones leading to an escalation?
Just some random ideas I had.
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Dika Regyri
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.06.23 17:56:57 -
[4] - Quote
Don't get your hopes up. The items that were added nearly a year ago now to data sites (the High-Tech items) still have no useful application in the game and are worthless...
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H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
9
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Posted - 2015.06.24 09:24:17 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:See, there's not a lot in the scope of "progression" in regards to exploration. You basically stay in HS until you have t2 ships and hacking modules and good scanning skills.
I've actually missed that line when venturing in to null-sec and WH space as a month-old pilot. May I refer You to an article that altered my view on exploration:
EVE Online Exploration Guide: Billions and Billions (of ISK) Read the full article: http://www.toptiertactics.com/21341/eve-online-exploration-guide-billions-and-billions-of-isk/#ixzz3dy9pRuDY
Quote:Though, another thought would be the addition of actual combat sites, with exploration added.
IE, a site that you fly into and have to battle NPCs in order to hack the containers and/or unlock the gate to enter where the containers are.
This would give t3's, Stratios, and even the Nestor a purpose (assuming the sites are variable in size- IE, fleet content)
Have You been to Sleeper or drone data/relic sites? In the first one You have to go though waves of Sleeper drones (or utilize some clever bookmark mechanic) to be able to get to each can while the second one spawns rouge drones after You hack the cans.
I must agree on the outcome buff tho. While the null-sec sites (especially Sanshas's) can yield over 100M ISK, the profit level does not scale in proportion to the risk level. Based on my experience right now You get something similar to the following:
(relic sites) HS: 1-5M ISK LS: 10-20M ISK NS (and WH pirate sites since they're basically the same): 40-100M ISK
There is also a major disproportion between data and relic sites (the first yielding relative crap in lower security space) although this could have its source in the lore somewhere.
Decrypting the Sleeper cache..
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Mike Whiite
Geuzen Inc
386
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:54:35 -
[6] - Quote
In m humble experiance, especialy low sec sites are not worth the trouble, in most cases the risk is higher than in nil sec.
low sec systems are busy, where as deeper in nil you encounter clusters of empty systems.
these days I just hub through WH's to the more empty nil systems, it makes no sense to take the low sec risk, though that counts for most of the PVE stuff in low sec. |
H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
9
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Posted - 2015.06.24 14:13:32 -
[7] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:In m humble experiance, especialy low sec sites are not worth the trouble, in most cases the risk is higher than in nil sec.
low sec systems are busy, where as deeper in nil you encounter clusters of empty systems.
these days I just hub through WH's to the more empty nil systems, it makes no sense to take the low sec risk, though that counts for most of the PVE stuff in low sec.
I agree that deep, alliance-owned null-sec is the most safe place to explore risk vs. reward-wise. The problem is getting Your profit out. Wormholes make it easier but You still have to find them which can take several systems to scan.
Decrypting the Sleeper cache..
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Triakis Cadelanne
Mount N' Do Alliance Name Already Taken
22
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:14:55 -
[8] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hello,
After a lot relic & data in null sec, I've come to think they deserve some love from CCP. I'm not talking about a simple buff by increasing the loots, but their reward is fairly low most of the time.
What they've done with sleeper cache is really cool and I don't know why they don't do something like that with regular null / WH relic & data sites.
It'd make exploration more challenging, and more rewardful, making it a viable profession that would need a higher skill & ISK investment to be pushed at it's finest. Ehh, i'm just starting to get into exploration, and I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Data and Relic are likely fine how they are (though they could use the ISK buff). However, I'm thinking what you're looking for is increased spawn rates on ghost sites and sleeper caches, with potentially higher isk potential. See, there's not a lot in the scope of "progression" in regards to exploration. You basically stay in HS until you have t2 ships and hacking modules and good scanning skills. Would be nice to see the addition of more ghost and sleeper hacking sites. Though, another thought would be the addition of actual combat sites, with exploration added. IE, a site that you fly into and have to battle NPCs in order to hack the containers and/or unlock the gate to enter where the containers are. This would give t3's, Stratios, and even the Nestor a purpose (assuming the sites are variable in size- IE, fleet content)
I don't know how relic and data are fine those days. I leave in a static null sec WH, so I have relic / data of all kind every day I'm jumping into a covop. Nowadays, a relic site is rarely above 20M ISK with every can completed (last time I get a 100M site is 6 month ago or something like that). Isn't that silly ?
The point is that any 3 month old character can complete any Relic / Data unless sleepers one. Hacking / Archeology level 5 and T2 modules are 100% useless. The top of an entire profession is accessible by a 3 month old character. If some other sites were requiring more skills and being more difficult, it would make sense to skill for it. |
Syrilian
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
108
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:31:30 -
[9] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
The point is that any 3 month old character can complete any Relic / Data unless sleepers one. Hacking / Archeology level 5 and T2 modules are 100% useless. The top of an entire profession is accessible by a 3 month old character. If some other sites were requiring more skills and being more difficult, it would make sense to skill for it.
If you are excluding sleeper sites, then the "entire profession" is not accessible to a 3 month old character. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
831
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:28:39 -
[10] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
The point is that any 3 month old character can complete any Relic / Data unless sleepers one. Hacking / Archeology level 5 and T2 modules are 100% useless. The top of an entire profession is accessible by a 3 month old character. If some other sites were requiring more skills and being more difficult, it would make sense to skill for it.
If you are excluding sleeper sites, then the "entire profession" is not accessible to a 3 month old character.
This.. Without a T2 ship and/or good scanning skills, you can't even scan down some of the sites. |
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Marech Bhayanaka
The Night Crew The Night Crew Alliance
25
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Posted - 2015.06.27 02:48:34 -
[11] - Quote
H1de0 wrote:[quote] NS (and WH pirate sites since they're basically the same): 40-100M ISK . Not at all representative. You will more often get under 40 than over.
Marech. |
Raven Jita
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.27 03:15:11 -
[12] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote: The point is that any 3 month old character can complete any Relic / Data unless sleepers one. Hacking / Archeology level 5 and T2 modules are 100% useless. The top of an entire profession is accessible by a 3 month old character. If some other sites were requiring more skills and being more difficult, it would make sense to skill for it.
If that's the case, I'd take up farming these young explorers.
There's two problems with what you want:
- Exploration is popular with newbies. What's pitiful isk to you is a small fortune to them and they appreciate not being forced to orbit a beacon in a small fw plex or salvage wrecks to make scratch when nobody is around to hold their hand. The bittervets who want a return to mandatory multiboxing in order to clear relic and data sites are vastly outnumbered. Rolling back to heavy rat spawns would be wildly unpopular.
- Exploration income stems from selling goods on the market. Increasing the number of goods needed by X just means more people go farm exploration for X and the price eventually comes back down as the supply increases. In the long run you just tread water unless the balance of material cost is dramatically altered and/or drop rates plummet to miserable levels. Neither of these seems compelling.
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vccv
44
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Posted - 2015.06.27 04:08:01 -
[13] - Quote
The exploration of pirate relic/data in null and wormholes is fine as is. New explorers gain a foothold in the profession by training, gaining some sp and experience flying said systems and then move into killing sleepers in sites containing them when they are able. Its progressive, scaled correctly and pays enough isk vs risk. Just as sleeper sites do.
They dont need buffing or altering. However, If I were forced to make a change, Id limit the potential for explorers to find backwater routes in null through minimal jumps via wh due to how dead null has become... its almost too easy vs the rewards gained. If the rewards went beyond that of a skilled but casual Lv4 mission runner I probably would say something but it doesnt.
Just my opinion. |
H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
16
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Posted - 2015.06.27 07:17:51 -
[14] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:H1de0 wrote:[quote] NS (and WH pirate sites since they're basically the same): 40-100M ISK . Not at all representative. You will more often get under 40 than over. Marech.
You missed the "based on my experience.." part;)
Decrypting the Sleeper cache..
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Starbuck05
Pretty Hate Machine. Symmetric Symbiosis
262
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Posted - 2015.07.05 18:11:50 -
[15] - Quote
Before ccp named them relic and data sites they where called magnetometric and something something..( how can i forget that..) and they had npc's in them that you had to kill in order to hack..much like sleeper relic/data. So i don't think they will go backwards.
If they add more ghost sites that would be great.
As far as relics goes , they are good but recently lacking in reward , what used to net me on avarage 50 mil per relic is now avarage 20 in null/wh with the ocasional 50-100 for sansha and 300 + if i can find a pos bpc.
Due note i did find several months ago a large angel tower in a C1 angel relic that gave me 2 bil isk after i sold it....and also quite recently a 250 mil shadow serp pos bpc... So yea , once in a while you get lucky.
Data sites are total crap everywhere.
Imo ccp shouldnt do anything else to them ...keep them as they are else risk breaking them more...
-á- I am the commanding officer , u should adress me as sir !
-á- But if i call u sir , what would i call your wife then ??
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Ramshack Z
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2015.07.05 18:25:39 -
[16] - Quote
The old system was...
Data: Radar Relic: Magnetometric Gas: Ladar Ore: Gravimetric
....if memory serves me. |
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