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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12979
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Posted - 2015.06.21 23:55:08 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks! We're planning on making a set of changes to the hitpoints of subcapital missiles, which are currently all 70hp (except for Torpedoes at 280hp). The significant implication would be to GÇ£firewallGÇ¥ tactics where people use smartbombs to destroy incoming missiles in fleet warfare. Firewalling is an example of very clever use of game mechanics and can involve a ton of player skill. We really like the tactic in general but as players have improved their techniques over time it has gotten a bit too strong and tends to stifle the use of interesting missile fleet concepts. Ideally weGÇÖd want to provide more interesting play around firewalling without nerfing it out of existence.
These changes would consist of:
- Moderate buffs to the HP of most missiles, with higher HP for larger missiles and higher HP for shorter range missiles within each size.
- An extra HP increase for the Guristas (but not Dread Guristas) line of faction missiles (which have the lowest damage of the faction missiles and are therefore missing a useful role).
- Each missile would gain 20% damage resistance to its own damage type, allowing for some advanced counterplay for large fleets that use and face firewall tactics.
The new hitpoint numbers would be: Light Missiles: 60hp Guristas Light Missiles: 80hp Rockets: 90hp Guristas Rockets: 120hp Heavy Missiles: 120hp Guristas Heavy Missiles: 160hp Heavy Assault Missiles: 180hp Guristas Heavy Assault Missiles: 240hp Cruise Missiles: 240hp Guristas Cruise Missiles: 320hp Torpedoes: 360hp Guristas Torpedoes: 480hp This would mean that for instance two T2 small smartbombs or one medium T2 would be required to take down a Heavy Missile (with that threshold rising to two mediums or one large for Guristas faction Heavy missiles) and Cruise missiles would require two T2 mediums or one large smartbomb (rising to three mediums or one large faction smartbomb for Guristas versions). When facing smartbombs of the same damage type that threshold would rise even further.
We hope that these changes will provide more interesting gameplay for pilots flying in fleets with or against missile ships.
Let us know what you think!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Kalen Pavle
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
29
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Posted - 2015.06.21 23:55:40 -
[2] - Quote
Death to firewalls? Firewalls are overpowered? Missiles still suck? MANY QUESTIONS!
Can we perhaps get some baseline missile speed added to torps so they actually hit things before it's time to change primary?
How about missile speed doubles while flight time halves so the number of wasted salvos goes way down? Maybe make it so you don't know damage is incoming 10 seconds before you start taking the damage? |
Saeka Tyr
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
38
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Posted - 2015.06.21 23:58:24 -
[3] - Quote
not going to buff capital missiles the same way?
';( |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1217
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Posted - 2015.06.21 23:58:32 -
[4] - Quote
I like this direction!
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Araneatrox
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
55
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Posted - 2015.06.21 23:58:36 -
[5] - Quote
Disco firewalls incoming. |
CorryBasler
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
90
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:00:14 -
[6] - Quote
page 1 post |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2753
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:02:46 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks! We're planning on making a set of changes to the hitpoints of subcapital missiles, which are currently all 70hp (except for Torpedoes at 280hp). The significant implication would be to GÇ£firewallGÇ¥ tactics where people use smartbombs to destroy incoming missiles in fleet warfare. Firewalling is an example of very clever use of game mechanics and can involve a ton of player skill. We really like the tactic in general but as players have improved their techniques over time it has gotten a bit too strong and tends to stifle the use of interesting missile fleet concepts. Ideally weGÇÖd want to provide more interesting play around firewalling without nerfing it out of existence. These changes would consist of: - Moderate buffs to the HP of most missiles, with higher HP for larger missiles and higher HP for shorter range missiles within each size.
- An extra HP increase for the Guristas (but not Dread Guristas) line of faction missiles (which have the lowest damage of the faction missiles and are therefore missing a useful role).
- Each missile would gain 20% damage resistance to its own damage type, allowing for some advanced counterplay for large fleets that use and face firewall tactics.
The new hitpoint numbers would be: Light Missiles: 60hp Guristas Light Missiles: 80hp Rockets: 90hp Guristas Rockets: 120hp Heavy Missiles: 120hp Guristas Heavy Missiles: 160hp Heavy Assault Missiles: 180hp Guristas Heavy Assault Missiles: 240hp Cruise Missiles: 240hp Guristas Cruise Missiles: 320hp Torpedoes: 360hp Guristas Torpedoes: 480hp This would mean that for instance two T2 small smartbombs or one medium T2 would be required to take down a Heavy Missile (with that threshold rising to two mediums or one large for Guristas faction Heavy missiles) and Cruise missiles would require two T2 mediums or one large smartbomb (rising to three mediums or one large faction smartbomb for Guristas versions). When facing smartbombs of the same damage type that threshold would rise even further. We hope that these changes will provide more interesting gameplay for pilots flying in fleets with or against missile ships. Let us know what you think!
You NEED to put capital missiles in with this.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Bianca Bardot
Bianca Bardot Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:03:13 -
[8] - Quote
So instead of 1 Medium Smartbomb you need now ..... 1 Medium Smartbomb. Uuuuuh. |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
402
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:04:30 -
[9] - Quote
Please clarify the case of missiles being launched from grouped launchers.
If I had, for example, eight launchers grouped, will the singular "missile" that is spawned when they fire be HP*8, or is there a stacking penalty involved? Or is it just the same HP as 1 missile? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12979
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:09:46 -
[10] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Please clarify the case of missiles being launched from grouped launchers.
If I had, for example, eight launchers grouped, will the singular "missile" that is spawned when they fire be HP*8, or is there a stacking penalty involved? Or is it just the same HP as 1 missile? That mechanic isn't changing. The combined entity that flies through space has 8x the HP of one missile, but whenever it loses 1/8 of its HP it loses 1/8 of its damage. Missile grouping was implemented quite well back in the day.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1217
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:22:55 -
[11] - Quote
Bianca Bardot wrote:So instead of 1 Medium Smartbomb you need now ..... 1 Medium Smartbomb. Uuuuuh.
I agree the HP needs to be higher but at least this is a start.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
1099
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:27:36 -
[12] - Quote
Finally |
Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen
War. Mongers
20
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:35:25 -
[13] - Quote
I did not think the firewall tactics was that big of a deal, I had hardly heard any really using them effectively to make a difference too |
Aliventi
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
868
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:36:23 -
[14] - Quote
How about you make the Gurristas faction missiles do the same damage as CN missile, and buff the HP of both? |
Tiberizzle
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
81
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:38:38 -
[15] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
You NEED to put capital missiles in with this.
[19:04]TeensinJeans: Grath Citaldel missiles already have 2k hp right now [19:04] GrathTelkin: they need more
unironically agree
the phoenix has a small group size (3 missiles) so its missile group EHP is fairly low at 5.76k meaning around 20 large T2 smartbombs per second eliminate all the missiles
taking this further, at energy pulse weapon 4 each 8-highslot battleship can stagger 1 smartbomb per second so a group of only 20 smartbombing battleships fed cap are a hard counter to a phoenix fleet of any size
the required number of smartbombs per second is actually probably half this or lower, as the citadel missiles move slowly enough that they are usually in smartbomb range for 2 or more ticks
factoring in how slow the missiles are it is also conceivable that a carrier group could achieve the smartbomb density necessary to screen itself from a large portion or all phoenix damage without even relying on an external firewall
tl;dr phoenix fleets larger than a couple dozen dudes are not tactically viable until the citadel missile ehp is buffed |
stoicfaux
5928
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:42:14 -
[16] - Quote
How does this affect NPC Defender missiles?
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins
117
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:50:07 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:Please clarify the case of missiles being launched from grouped launchers.
If I had, for example, eight launchers grouped, will the singular "missile" that is spawned when they fire be HP*8, or is there a stacking penalty involved? Or is it just the same HP as 1 missile? That mechanic isn't changing. The combined entity that flies through space has 8x the HP of one missile, but whenever it loses 1/8 of its HP it loses 1/8 of its damage. Missile grouping was implemented quite well back in the day.
What about Golem and its 4 Launcher?
is it possible for Golem to get role bonus to boost its missile hp to comparable to other missile BS's group of missile? |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.06.22 00:56:46 -
[18] - Quote
Fozzie, is there something you can do without buffing goons in process? Or is it your sole purpose in CCP? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1726
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Posted - 2015.06.22 01:05:11 -
[19] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Fozzie, is there something you can do without buffing goons in process? Or is it your sole purpose in CCP? Realtalk: they really can't. We're too clever for it to be possible.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2086
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Posted - 2015.06.22 01:17:20 -
[20] - Quote
any chance when you do tiericide to missile ammo we can get special kinds that get bonus to resists or more HP but lower damage or something?
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
253
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Posted - 2015.06.22 01:31:18 -
[21] - Quote
A beautiful start.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Needmore Longcat
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
235
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Posted - 2015.06.22 01:36:45 -
[22] - Quote
This is a really cool change. I agree that it needs more tweaking, but this is definitely the right path.
#drakefleet2015 |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1793
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Posted - 2015.06.22 01:40:37 -
[23] - Quote
capital missiles
kkthxbye |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1128
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Posted - 2015.06.22 01:48:11 -
[24] - Quote
As mentioned by many others, Capital Missiles could also use an HP buff.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
328
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Posted - 2015.06.22 02:07:34 -
[25] - Quote
I think this is a good first step to making missiles slightly more viable in fleets. Firewalls could be quite strong and eliminate an entire fleet's dps. The HP buff will make it so missiles can still get through depending on fleet/smartbomb comp.
This also means fleet members will have to fill these roles, and makes for less ishtars on field. Plus drone fleets w/ firewall could end badly and make setting up a firewall a hazardous and annoying thing to position correctly(perhaps making missiles viable in countering drone fleets?). Lol, probably not. But still, its far more interesting an idea than the drone meta that's been ongoing for 2 years now.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Arthur Aihaken
Jormungand Corporation
4458
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Posted - 2015.06.22 03:53:29 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Moderate buffs to the HP of most missiles, with higher HP for larger missiles and higher HP for shorter range missiles within each size. Does this HP buff also apply to auto-targeting variants of light, heavy and cruise missiles as well?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
690
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Posted - 2015.06.22 03:56:25 -
[27] - Quote
I think I like where this is going. Now it comes down to serverticks and pilot positioning and flying.
Should make the entosis fights for stations more interesting when missiles finally have something to say.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
133
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Posted - 2015.06.22 03:57:01 -
[28] - Quote
So are we going to ignore Defender FoF Missiles or?
Please tell me you're doing something about them too in Aegis.
Good start though |
Funless Saisima
Strange Energy The Bastion
60
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Posted - 2015.06.22 04:19:14 -
[29] - Quote
Does this include Caldari Navy missiles? |
Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems
152
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Posted - 2015.06.22 04:25:17 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:Please clarify the case of missiles being launched from grouped launchers.
If I had, for example, eight launchers grouped, will the singular "missile" that is spawned when they fire be HP*8, or is there a stacking penalty involved? Or is it just the same HP as 1 missile? That mechanic isn't changing. The combined entity that flies through space has 8x the HP of one missile, but whenever it loses 1/8 of its HP it loses 1/8 of its damage. Missile grouping was implemented quite well back in the day.
So for the sake of clarification, does that mean that if I have 8 missiles. And I fire them in a group of 4, and 4 individually. And they got firewalled, the 4 individuals would be destroyed, but the group might survive with a 1/4 of its combined health and only do 1/4 of its combined damage?
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