Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 28 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:48:21 -
[241] - Quote
Very impressive, you just hit the ball out of the park with this one Rise. The current drone meta is oppressive and is cutting the number of alternative viable compositions to a point where you'd be crazy not to use drones.
These changes seem to strike a good balance of hitting the most prolific offender the hardest while toning down drones in general by a small degree.
Also good to see some love for the Tempest, although it was a good ship before in my eyes, I guess the metrics were showing that it wasn't getting much use. With this change it should make a nano fit PvP Tempest more than viable. Please extend this change to the TFI also though. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2244
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:48:34 -
[242] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: This is suggested so often but it just isn't the case. Drones not being locked to the size of their owner ship is one of the most consistent and distinct things about them. Vexors, VNIs, Myrmidons, Eos's, and Ishtars (at least) all use 'battleship sized' drones, and everything bigger than a destroyer can use 'frigate sized' drones. This flexibility is part of what makes drones really interesting and while sentries have become a big part of what makes certain hulls so strong, we don't want to lock drone ships into drones that match their ship size.
While this is true, it doesn't answer why Sentries as a 'Battleship sized drone' have cruiser levels of tracking and sig res built into them. The Sig Res to 400 would be one of the biggest things you could change on Sentries that would stop them being one drone to rule them all, while still leaving them as an effective weapons system against large targets. |
Unamed Vyvorant
Maple Leafs Nation Dark Pride Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:49:53 -
[243] - Quote
Rockstara wrote:fit any HAC to do damage at 70 km. It's tough to get decent dps on such ships at that range. Except for the ishtar, it is ~100% better in terms of damage than the next best option.
you don't need 5% tweaks, you need a big axe Any kind of cerberus HAML Cerb 600dps at 65km RLML Cerb 614dps at 102km HML Cerb 500dps at 152km without new missile modules, and 5%buff heavy missiles can you fit ishtar for that distance? |
Bell Heluene
AcT Legion Short Bus Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:54:03 -
[244] - Quote
All you had to do was remove the sentry bonus from the Ishtar. Just let the battleships play with sentry drones. That means none of this ship bonuses will affect sentries. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
106
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:54:47 -
[245] - Quote
Unamed Vyvorant wrote:Rockstara wrote:fit any HAC to do damage at 70 km. It's tough to get decent dps on such ships at that range. Except for the ishtar, it is ~100% better in terms of damage than the next best option.
you don't need 5% tweaks, you need a big axe Any kind of cerberus HAML Cerb 600dps at 65km RLML Cerb 614dps at 102km HML Cerb 500dps at 152km without new missile modules, and 5%buff heavy missiles can you fit ishtar for that distance?
Do you have any kind of tank or cap stability to stay out of harm with those fits? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16274
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:03:28 -
[246] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Unamed Vyvorant wrote:Rockstara wrote:fit any HAC to do damage at 70 km. It's tough to get decent dps on such ships at that range. Except for the ishtar, it is ~100% better in terms of damage than the next best option.
you don't need 5% tweaks, you need a big axe Any kind of cerberus HAML Cerb 600dps at 65km RLML Cerb 614dps at 102km HML Cerb 500dps at 152km without new missile modules, and 5%buff heavy missiles can you fit ishtar for that distance? Do you have any kind of tank or cap stability to stay out of harm with those fits?
No.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:04:21 -
[247] - Quote
Gremk wrote:The only thing I find frustrating about drone boats is how easy it is to wipe their DPS when using heavies/medium/lights. Lowering the DPS is understandable but don't forget the HUGE drawbacks of having a DPS platform that is 100% destructible. And this is part of the problem with the Ishtar, going for its drones is suicidal and is not ever going to be a viable tactic while it has a 375m3 drone bay. If you think you can chew through 3 full flights of heavy drones or countless amounts of medium or lights and then still destroy the Ishtar itself before being vaporised; try it and see how it ends.
Only on ships like the standard vexor and the others with 250m3 and below, then to some degree the prospect of destroying the drones starts to become more viable. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:08:10 -
[248] - Quote
Unamed Vyvorant wrote:Rockstara wrote:fit any HAC to do damage at 70 km. It's tough to get decent dps on such ships at that range. Except for the ishtar, it is ~100% better in terms of damage than the next best option.
you don't need 5% tweaks, you need a big axe Any kind of cerberus HAML Cerb 600dps at 65km RLML Cerb 614dps at 102km HML Cerb 500dps at 152km without new missile modules, and 5%buff heavy missiles can you fit ishtar for that distance?
Go fit up a cerb fleet and fight an ishtar fleet. Tell me how that works out with that kinetic lock. Also missiles REQUIRE webs/TP to fully apply in most cases. Sentries/turrets do not.
You will not get that damage actually applied unless you have proper support. Heavy missiles would apply 300dps if youre lucky. HAMs could be outranged by just burning away from them while youre in sentry optimal.. and RLML.. that reload wont work well in fleets.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
|
Zappity
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
2250
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:09:34 -
[249] - Quote
Good stuff. Not sure that the DDA nerf is enough, though.
For me, a major reason to use drones is the damage selection. I'd really like to see missile kinetic lock removed. That would help people move away from drones.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Unamed Vyvorant
Maple Leafs Nation Dark Pride Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:11:54 -
[250] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Unamed Vyvorant wrote:Rockstara wrote:fit any HAC to do damage at 70 km. It's tough to get decent dps on such ships at that range. Except for the ishtar, it is ~100% better in terms of damage than the next best option.
you don't need 5% tweaks, you need a big axe Any kind of cerberus HAML Cerb 600dps at 65km RLML Cerb 614dps at 102km HML Cerb 500dps at 152km without new missile modules, and 5%buff heavy missiles can you fit ishtar for that distance? Do you have any kind of tank or cap stability to stay out of harm with those fits? 62k ehp 1744m/s 614dps at 70 (RLML) capstable Any problem? |
|
Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:14:49 -
[251] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Gremk wrote:The only thing I find frustrating about drone boats is how easy it is to wipe their DPS when using heavies/medium/lights. Lowering the DPS is understandable but don't forget the HUGE drawbacks of having a DPS platform that is 100% destructible. And this is part of the problem with the Ishtar, going for its drones is suicidal and is not ever going to be a viable tactic while it has a 375m3 drone bay. If you think you can chew through 3 full flights of heavy drones or countless amounts of medium or lights and then still destroy the Ishtar itself before being vaporised; try it and see how it ends. Only on ships like the standard vexor and the others with 250m3 and below, then to some degree the prospect of destroying the drones starts to become more viable. That being said I'm fine with the Ishtar having a 375m3 bay as long as its drones aren't churning out some of the highest DPS on any cruiser hull in the game. In tight contests where ships are not alpha'd off the field, targeting drones is a smart tactic to ease enemy dps. Sentries don't call for logi support, so they go down easily when targeted. Yes the Ishtar's can redeploy many more but they have to move into drone optimal range to do it, giving more opportunities to catch the Ishtar with more of your own dps.
It is not the best tactic, but it does have a place. Much like firewalls, they are effective under the right circumstances, but useless other times. |
big miker
Rifterlings The WeHurt Initiative
331
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:14:58 -
[252] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:afkalt wrote:What about fleet 'pest? Screw that. Is it going to carry forward to the Vargur?
Oh the thoughts of it
Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / maruaders
|
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
106
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:17:27 -
[253] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Airi Cho wrote: Do you have any kind of tank or cap stability to stay out of harm with those fits?
No.
Thought so
|
Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
228
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:17:27 -
[254] - Quote
We're still pretending that the problems with the AFK ISKtard are all PVP related? |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
334
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:18:19 -
[255] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP Rise wrote: This is suggested so often but it just isn't the case. Drones not being locked to the size of their owner ship is one of the most consistent and distinct things about them. Vexors, VNIs, Myrmidons, Eos's, and Ishtars (at least) all use 'battleship sized' drones, and everything bigger than a destroyer can use 'frigate sized' drones. This flexibility is part of what makes drones really interesting and while sentries have become a big part of what makes certain hulls so strong, we don't want to lock drone ships into drones that match their ship size.
While this is true, it doesn't answer why Sentries as a 'Battleship sized drone' have cruiser levels of tracking and sig res built into them. The Sig Res to 400 would be one of the biggest things you could change on Sentries that would stop them being one drone to rule them all, while still leaving them as an effective weapons system against large targets.
Sentries do have 400 sig res, they just have very high base tracking at long ranges so it's not noticed as much. Bouncers have 0.017 base tracking, the best long range large turret has 0.014.
Also, the Ishtar and Dominix have both range AND damage bonuses, something no turret-based BS has. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
334
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:19:53 -
[256] - Quote
Kahless Monstrosity wrote:Fix the ishtar and quit nerfing other drone boats, do you even think about the effects on other ships? Your stupid dps graph needs to be thrown away. Take sentrys away from ishtars, make them a armor boat, etc...
So now the already almost useless Super Capitals, get another nerf? Why do you continue to crap on supers/titans? Do you not care about them? If so just yank them out of the game and refund the SP..
The Dominix is far more overpowered than the Ishtar is. |
Unamed Vyvorant
Maple Leafs Nation Dark Pride Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:21:46 -
[257] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: Go fit up a cerb fleet and fight an ishtar fleet. Tell me how that works out with that kinetic lock. Also missiles REQUIRE webs/TP to fully apply in most cases. Sentries/turrets do not.
You will not get that damage actually applied unless you have proper support. Heavy missiles would apply 300dps if youre lucky. HAMs could be outranged by just burning away from them while youre in sentry optimal.. and RLML.. that reload wont work well in fleets.
every ishtar fleet have huginn or rapier, with webs and TP, why you think that cerb fleet cannot have a recon i dont know. How you could otrange hams at 100km, but cannot outrange sentri drones, new midslot modules for missiles alowed for instant change from aplication of damage or range.
|
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:26:28 -
[258] - Quote
Terra Chrall wrote:In tight contests where ships are not alpha'd off the field, targeting drones is a smart tactic to ease enemy dps. Sentries don't call for logi support, so they go down easily when targeted. Yes the Ishtar's can redeploy many more but they have to move into drone optimal range to do it, giving more opportunities to catch the Ishtar with more of your own dps.
It is not the best tactic, but it does have a place. Much like firewalls, they are effective under the right circumstances, but useless other times. That is very true, where two fleets are able to maintain logi reps then going for the drones would become quite effective. I need to do more large gang PvP. *chuckles* |
Ares Desideratus
RANDOM STARSHIP GUILD
266
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:30:27 -
[259] - Quote
Ships like the Arbitrator suffer needlessly from this change. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1436
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:36:54 -
[260] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:afkalt wrote:What about fleet 'pest? Screw that. Is it going to carry forward to the Vargur?
Not sure the best PvE hull needs more |
|
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
209
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:37:24 -
[261] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Hm. Now I can remove all the Tracking from the Mids to 3 TEs in the Lows. Or 2 TE, 2 DDA, 1 DCU and a Nano in the lows for better speed and maneuverability. Or a PDS for more cap, more shield and some PG. And 2 DLA I think for even more range since the 2nd LSE doesn't clog up the CPU. I wonder if these changes mean anything at all. Reiteration: Remove the application bonuses for sentries form the Ishtar. And the ship is fixed.
^^ |
ArmyOfMe
No.Mercy Triumvirate.
431
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:54:54 -
[262] - Quote
Bunka en Daire wrote:Why u just dont delete drone boats from game??? Even better u can mix up vexor and ishtar in one ship, so no more efforts for nerfing.
Or better why u just do not BUFF other ships, so u must nerf all drone boats, because of tiiiiit BLOBERS?
So when some1 invest year in training drones, u just nerf them and u make that one year of training pointless...
Bad thing with all this nerfing is beacuse u base all that on +200 mans fleet...so....do u think all eve players are part of CFC, PL, and other so called alliances who enjoy to blob 200 ishtars on one Maelstrom??? If this killed a whole year of your drone skills, then you have been flying the ship wrong
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
|
Panther X
High Flyers Gentlemen's.Club
95
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:57:35 -
[263] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote:Rise, I believe at this point that you're deliberately missing the root cause of the problem: the Ishtar breaks the rule regarding size-appropriate weapons on hulls. Sentry drones are fundamentally a battleship-sized weapon system, and aren't game-breaking when used on such; perhaps in need of tuning like the DDA effectiveness reduction, but that's all. The combination of cruiser-class signature and speed, T2 resists (remember that no T2 battleships are viable for fleet combat) and the long-range projection of sentries are what push the Ishtar over the top in combat situations.
For whatever it might be worth, making the Ishtar into an improved version of the VNI, with fast enough drone travel times to be useful, seems a more practical situation, and allows for fleets deploying heavy smartbomb contingents to be an effective counter. This is suggested so often but it just isn't the case. Drones not being locked to the size of their owner ship is one of the most consistent and distinct things about them. Vexors, VNIs, Myrmidons, Eos's, and Ishtars (at least) all use 'battleship sized' drones, and everything bigger than a destroyer can use 'frigate sized' drones. This flexibility is part of what makes drones really interesting and while sentries have become a big part of what makes certain hulls so strong, we don't want to lock drone ships into drones that match their ship size.
Why not? That seems like the reasonable thing to do. First of all, a Vexor is a cruiser not a battlecruiser. Battlecruisers have already been nerfed into oblivion. Someone queue up the "Cahn ah bring mah drake" meme. When was the last time you actually saw any battlecruiser other than a tornado on a killmail? Don't even get me started on Command Ships.
Instead of dealing with the inherent problem of battleship weapons systems on cruisers, you do the same crap you pull every other time.."Let's nerf the **** out of stuff that isn't broken!" What other HAC gets battleship class weapons? Cerbs have HAMS/Heavy missiles. Zealots, medium lasers... you see where I'm going with this.
Just make drones downwards compatible, not upwards. HACs shouldnt be using sentries, plain and simple. Heavies? Maybe. But definitely NOT NOT NOT sentries. Reduce bandwidth on smaller ships so that they can't use 5 sentries at least. Maybe 2 or 3 max. Give them speed and tracking bonuses to heavies if you have to.
You want fleets to use battleships? Make them useful again. Stop wailing about power creep, and make these as they should be, weapons of war. Not sunshine and lollipops.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Panther X
High Flyers Gentlemen's.Club
95
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 22:06:55 -
[264] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Hm. Now I can remove all the Tracking from the Mids to 3 TEs in the Lows. Or 2 TE, 2 DDA, 1 DCU and a Nano in the lows for better speed and maneuverability. Or a PDS for more cap, more shield and some PG. And 2 DLA I think for even more range since the 2nd LSE doesn't clog up the CPU. I wonder if these changes mean anything at all. Reiteration: Remove the application bonuses for sentries form the Ishtar. And the ship is fixed. ^^
Close; remove sentries from Ishtars altogether, or increase bandwidth necessary to fly them. If they don't want to lock upwards mobility of weapon class on drone ships, which is the dumbest thing I have heard in this game so far, then restrict their usage by class and increase the bandwidth needed to fly the damned things.
Geckos need 50 bandwidth each or some such nonsense, why not sentries like that? Carriers can be rebalanced in this way by changing their available bandwidth, as can battleships. Frigates can't use sentries, neither can dessies, but say ishtars with 2, eos with 4 and battleships with 5, while carriers still get a full complement of up to 10, 15 with DCM.
I'm sorry CCP, your ideas just don't hold water.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
O2 jayjay
Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem.
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 22:09:00 -
[265] - Quote
Why not reduce its fitting and give it 100 bandwidth? Problem solved instead to completely destroying the ship. I personally think the Ishtar shouldn't have BS Weapons and if it does then it should hit less then what a myrim does. ( only can deploy 4 heavies or 4 sentries) remove bonus to drones. |
Panther X
High Flyers Gentlemen's.Club
95
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 22:14:09 -
[266] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Why not reduce its fitting and give it 100 bandwidth? Problem solved instead to completely destroying the ship. I personally think the Ishtar shouldn't have BS Weapons and if it does then it should hit less then what a myrim does. ( only can deploy 4 heavies or 4 sentries) remove bonus to drones.
Cause it makes sense. Rise and Fozzy don't roll like that.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Galphii
Oberon Incorporated Get Off My Lawn
313
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 22:23:25 -
[267] - Quote
Back during the first BS balance pass I suggested the Tempest get a falloff bonus, and I reiterate that now.
Remove the damage bonus but give it an extra turret slot, it's not exactly short on spare highs. Keep the rof at 5% & give it the 10% falloff bonus autocannon hulls enjoy. Give the fleet issue the 7.5% rof bonus, along with 7 turrets. Spicy!
"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
|
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
299
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 22:38:41 -
[268] - Quote
Give drone ships bonuses to certain size of drones, i.e a Ishtar only has bonuses to medium drones, create medium and small sentry drones to compensate? Dominix only has bonuses to large drones, Tristan only bonuses to small drones and so forth. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 23:06:18 -
[269] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Back during the first BS balance pass I suggested the Tempest get a falloff bonus, and I reiterate that now.
Remove the damage bonus but give it an extra turret slot, it's not exactly short on spare highs. Keep the rof at 5% & give it the 10% falloff bonus autocannon hulls enjoy. Give the fleet issue the 7.5% rof bonus, along with 7 turrets. Spicy! I'd rather keep two heavy neuts. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 23:06:53 -
[270] - Quote
TFI not getting bonus? So.. i guess arty being relavent gets a slap in the face again. Or the fact the t1 version does more dmg than fleet version.
Or are you planning different bonus for fleet variant? Could you maybe look into buffing cpu on t1 pest a smidge? Like 10-15 more CPU would help certain SOLO fits be more viable. Plus look at cargo space plz. Maybe its just me, but cargo seems lowish with all the ammo i need to make projectiles not super bad.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 28 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |