Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 16:18:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Tiger Kior why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)
How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 16:20:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud He said to use other rigs on your own megathron. In the rokh, if they're taken up by PG rigs, surely you can fit some useful rigs into the Megathron to make it nice vs the rokh.
None which can counter the range advantage of the rohk. "Surely" does not count. Look at the rigs before making incorrect assumptions.
I see Range, ROF, DMG, and falloff rigs.
Am I missing something that states the Mega can't fit the range or falloff one?
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Loud Speaker
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 16:57:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Loud Speaker on 26/11/2006 16:59:12 Btw, this isn't just a megathron issue. The other snipers, amarr and minmatar, are both in the same boat as gallente. I don't personally fly a 1400mm tempest or tachyon geddon/apoc, but I was under the impression that 425mm II combined optimal & falloff was the highest of all the top tier guns.
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:02:00 -
[154]
Damage & ROF rigs have a pretty minimal effect because they are subject to the stacking penalitiy. If you have 3 damage mods a 10% damage rig gives you only a 2.8% bonus.
Same with the range mod. It also shares stacking penalities with the tracking comps and enchancers. If you have already 4 of those the (t2) range rig will boost the range only by 2.1%. Spike range of the mega of 186 will increase to 190. Yay! (not)
The falloff rig does not get stacking penalities, but since the 425mm II rail falloff is so "stellar" also only add 6k to it's falloff (24k -> 30k).
In short: the dps & rof rigs are pretty pointless since they give only very small boosts after the damagemods. And are either way not the real problem. The optimal range mod gives after stacking penalities only a minimal boost. The falloff mod does not give a big boost due to the small falloff of the rails. Even with one fitted the rohks can still operate beyond the optimal + 2 * falloff line of the mega.
You won't find a solution to the problem in rigs.
|
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:09:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Tiger Kior why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)
How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?
Following the ECM nerf you won't see the Domi using ECM.
|
Loud Speaker
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:16:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Tiger Kior why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)
How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?
Following the ECM nerf you won't see the Domi using ECM.
I haven't experimented with the ECM rigs on SiSi, but how would a domi perform using the ecm boosting mods/rigs?
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 20:15:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Tiger Kior why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)
How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?
Following the ECM nerf you won't see the Domi using ECM.
You mean like how nobody uses ecm nosdomis on sisi after the change?
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 21:03:00 -
[158]
Simple solution tbh.
Don't snipe.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
Kibayasu Iella
The Raven Warriors
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 21:24:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Kibayasu Iella on 26/11/2006 21:24:27
Originally by: welsh wizard Simple solution tbh.
Don't snipe.
This would be the best idea ever, if only people would follow it. Imagine a 100vs100 at 0-20km
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 21:47:00 -
[160]
As far as I'm concerned the best thing about the large railgun batteries is antimatter and javelin ammo. The rest of its merely a distraction.
The op also conveniently forgot about the Megathrons tracking bonus. At the end of the day the most important thing as far as these railgun platforms are concerned is damage and both Gallente battleships are capable of outdamaging the Rokh.
The tech I Rokh just isn't in the same league as a tech II thron.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
|
Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 02:24:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Kibayasu Iella Edited by: Kibayasu Iella on 26/11/2006 21:24:27
Originally by: welsh wizard Simple solution tbh.
Don't snipe.
This would be the best idea ever, if only people would follow it. Imagine a 100vs100 at 0-20km
Not as long as nos/sensor damps/ecm is still around.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 02:46:00 -
[162]
Originally by: welsh wizard As far as I'm concerned the best thing about the large railgun batteries is antimatter and javelin ammo. The rest of its merely a distraction.
The op also conveniently forgot about the Megathrons tracking bonus. At the end of the day the most important thing as far as these railgun platforms are concerned is damage and both Gallente battleships are capable of outdamaging the Rokh.
The tech I Rokh just isn't in the same league as a tech II thron.
The whole problem here is that the tech 1 Rokh IS in the same league as the tech 2 thron. The tracking bonus MAKES NO DIFFERENCE at those ranges. The rokh can just get a bit farther away and outdamage the Mega with tech 1 nubcrap.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 02:54:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus bah anohter drunken post
FFS how hard is it to train up caldari bs to 4? you all are gong on like youll never ever ever ever ever get a rohk to fly or are too laxy to train for onw.. yeah so you have 3453453 years of specializing in gallente bs.. those skills dont carry over?!@ FFS a fleet bs is all about t6he weapons not the silly support skills.. you alreasy have large hyberid 5 so just put it on another bs FFS and pwn like the rest of us will on patch day.. Crippty crap i dont see yuall complinging abvout anything at all but stup pid ****.. diversity of skills is what long tern pleyars stength is not spcilazing in only one narrow field.. but bah its all about the attentioon i guess so keep[ spamming the forums with this ultimaltely futile crapppity crap.. tje devs wi;; just giggle some more after readng yet another whine thread of selfish desire to ve the only pwner on the block.. if youd just take a few measly weeks to trian for all races t1 youd not even be heer crying a river to the void..
gah
LMAO! I don't even remember posting this.. Now thats a true bender.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Selnix
Gallente Master Miners
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 04:07:00 -
[164]
Here are my thoughts on this....
I. Just train Caldari BS IV or V - All well and good, simple as can be. BUT, many people don't make tons of isk and throwing down 150m+ on a new ship could mean selling off the one they currently have. So in effect, you'd have all of the Gallente who want to continue to snipe with their millions of sp in gunnery to trade in for Caldari ships. Why even BE Gallente then?
II. Mega and Hype are not snipers, but blasters - Why are our Tier II and Tier III battleships filling the same exact role then? Is there even a reason to fly a Hyperion? What does it give you that you can't get for 50m or more cheaper out of a Mega? The Rokh may very well be a superior blaster ship to the Mega or Hype (whichever really deserves that role). Say it isn't? Don't start the battle at 5-10km... start 30k off and see who throws out the most damage using identical guns and ammo while the short ranged dedicated blasterboat tries to get close enough to hit the Rokh... Should Hyperion be a drone ship? No. We have the Dominix and although the hitpoint boost is an ungodly nerf to the survivability of drones of any size, it still fills its role well enough. (FYI, With ECM nerfed, yes the NOS'ing Domi is likely a bad PVP choice given you can lose the entirety of your offense to any close range ship as all the NOS in the world doesn't mean jack if you can't do any damage) Please find us a role for the Hyperion Devs, or keep it as a blasterboat and give it the ability to do so well. Of course, in that case, the Mega would then need to find a role as well.
III. Raven can't snipe either since the torp nerf - Does it still do massive damage with those weapons? Does the shorter range hurt it in a fleet battle? No, it doesn't. Anyone that has been in a fleet with sniper support knows that by the time those torps hit, the target was often already destroyed by all of the instant damage ships. Nerfing their range may hurt them in some ways, but also forces them to a range that better suits the delayed nature of torpedo volleys. I am sure it had to be frustrating to no end to fire off your rack of torps for a cycle or two just to see the enemy warp before they hit.
IV. Other T2 ships can't shoot like the Rokh either - Truely, the Rokh having 249km range is fine, but that should be the range it hits with T2 ammo, not T1. if it could only hit with T1 out to the range that the T2 battleships of the other races can hit, there would be little problem there. They would do more damage at that range in reward for their skill training while it would have a passive tank to fend off some of it while dealing less damage. There is no problem with it having a slight edge in range when fitted with like guns and ammo as that is its role.
And for the record, I can't fit a sniper or a blasterwagon with anything beyond the most basic of T1 weaponry. Why does this matter to me then? Because I need to know where to go with my training in the future. If our battleships have no true roles, I may be better off to just give up on ever PVP'ing in a battleship and spend the extra months training up for a command ship. Why play Eve if the only goal you can set for yourself is to train up the same skills you did for your own race for ships of another race, just to be competetive in PVP? We don't need an I win button, just some I can participate ones.
|
Loud Speaker
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 04:31:00 -
[165]
While the gallente pilots who are using t2 guns on their megathrons for fleet snipers have it not quite so bad, just train a new line of BSs, what about the Amarr pilots using tachyons and the minmatar pilots using 1400mms. I suppose all they have to do is train a new race bs and railguns since tremor and aurora are both down to 80% range boost as well. Perhaps they can take comfort in the fact that they don't need to get lvl 5 large hybrids and large railgun specialization this time around.
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 05:14:00 -
[166]
I don't want the Rokh nerfed. It's a great ship. TBH I hate it when any ship gets nerfed (ok, except maybe the Raven with it's supid powerful torps and the Vagabond, but I digress...).
If we had our T2 ammo back the way it is on TQ, none of this would matter. Furthermore, for everyone extolling the virtues of the Mega's **USELESS** tracking bonus: the Hype does just fine at both close and long range, right along side the Mega, and it has no tracking bonus.
Following that wonderful logic, the Rokh doesn't suffer AT ALL from not having a tracking bonus. It's like the rest of the players are brain dead. Shut up about the tracking bonus already. It doesn't matter.
Continuing, why not give the Mega a 10% range bonus to replace it's tracking bonus? Then it could compete with the Rokh, but it would have 7 guns instead of 8. And the Rokh would always have a better natural tank than the Mega would. And this would further differentiate the Mega from the Hype. The Hype would have a better tank and still hit hard, but the Mega would have more range and be a better sniper.
The Rokh would still be a great sniper and would still be the better long range ship due to it's better tank once you have all the requisite sniper mods fitted. TBH I think a 10% rang bonus in place of the tracking bonus on the Mega is a brilliant idea. Solves a lot of issues in one go.
Because I said so...
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 05:18:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/11/2006 05:18:51 That is a good idea.
The Mega needs a role now. Kill the ridiculous tracking bonus - it is crap.
Just make the Mega useful for SOMETHING.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 10:07:00 -
[168]
Originally by: murder one The Rokh would still be a great sniper and would still be the better long range ship due to it's better tank once you have all the requisite sniper mods fitted. TBH I think a 10% rang bonus in place of the tracking bonus on the Mega is a brilliant idea. Solves a lot of issues in one go.
The problem is that the rohk does not only make the mega obsolete in fleet battles. The same problem is also present with minmatar and amarr ships.
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 10:12:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: murder one The Rokh would still be a great sniper and would still be the better long range ship due to it's better tank once you have all the requisite sniper mods fitted. TBH I think a 10% rang bonus in place of the tracking bonus on the Mega is a brilliant idea. Solves a lot of issues in one go.
The problem is that the rohk does not only make the mega obsolete in fleet battles. The same problem is also present with minmatar and amarr ships.
I completely agree. Unnerf T2 ammo for all ships, problem solved. Then the Rokh will still be good at long range, but won't be the complete equal of every other T2 gunned ship in the game at sniping ranges of 150km+, and best them after 185km+.
Because I said so...
|
Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 10:32:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Loka on 27/11/2006 10:32:30 I have Gal BS lvl 5 and still trained lvl 4 Caldari BS recently. Why? Rokh, one word is enough. If you dont see it you are blind.
As a defender you will kill anything jumping on you, which dont have enough Rokh¦s BS their own.
Bubble the gate, Dictors and tacklers will cause them to be slaughtered, without the ability to shoot at the Rokh¦s sitting at 220km range.
Warping out and back again? Maintain your dictorbubbles at the gates and they will land ontop of the bubbles, each time you warp in back.
You will plain and simple only be able to shoot their support, not their BS. Period.
As an attacker, warp to a cov op, snipe until they move to a position they could finally shoot back. Than you decide to warp out or to stay and fight.
DPS means nothing, if you cant shoot back. At 220+km, the Rokh will be the only BS who¦s DPS will be bigger than 0. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
|
|
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 10:42:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created.
Altho removing T2 ammo and remaking it into side-effect charges would still be a much, much better thing imo.
What makes you think that you deserve to be on par using T1 guns with someone that has specialized in gunnery and might have up to 10million skill points (or more) in one type of turret?
|
Tiger Kior
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 11:36:00 -
[172]
There is no other valid contention on the rokh than that the devs themself said in many blogs that obscene ranged sniping is something they are working to REMOVE but in this case it is something they have exagerated, isolated to a race and created an inbalance in the process.
cudos to infraX - well said.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 11:53:00 -
[173]
Originally by: infraX
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created.
Altho removing T2 ammo and remaking it into side-effect charges would still be a much, much better thing imo.
What makes you think that you deserve to be on par using T1 guns with someone that has specialized in gunnery and might have up to 10million skill points (or more) in one type of turret?
Well said. Same point that has been made - but still well said.
\o/
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Jin Steele
Fatalix Inc. Schism.
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 12:19:00 -
[174]
do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari. Fatalix IS RECRUITING!
|
agram tabris
Gallente Oberon Incorporated
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 12:40:00 -
[175]
Edited by: agram tabris on 27/11/2006 12:41:59 just slightly reduce the rokh's range bonus from 10% per level to something like 7,5% or less. on bs lvl4 you have 30% instead of 40% bonus. thats mucht closer to real balance.
it's ok for me to see that caldari finaly can use rails. howewer i don't agree that rails are caldari primary weapons. maybe on datasheets, but in game; 80%+ of caldari pilots prefer missiles.
|
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 13:03:00 -
[176]
All I have to say is... 3 days till Caldari Battleship 5 with Large Rail 5 to soon follow.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 13:09:00 -
[177]
Edited by: murder one on 27/11/2006 13:10:44
Originally by: Jin Steele do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.
The mega doesn't even do short range well anymore. Everything was fine till the T2 ammo nerf. And wtf? Devs just want Caldari to snipe? Not anyone else?
Did you just say that the Devs are against anyone in the game being able to snipe besides Caldari? Did I just hear you right?
Because I said so...
|
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 13:21:00 -
[178]
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 27/11/2006 13:10:44
Originally by: Jin Steele do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.
The mega doesn't even do short range well anymore. Everything was fine till the T2 ammo nerf. And wtf? Devs just want Caldari to snipe? Not anyone else?
Did you just say that the Devs are against anyone in the game being able to snipe besides Caldari? Did I just hear you right?
I think you did.
The "roles" of the different races have allways been. Caldari: Range. Gallente: Damage. Amarr: Tank. Minmatar: Versility.
That they don't all live up to these ideals, they are what they are supposed to work towards. Rokh just does what its supposed to.
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 13:25:00 -
[179]
game balance > racial roles
Amarr, for example, was low versatibility, but high gank & tank. Which resulted in the gankgeddon. Which was too strong. Which was as result nerfed.
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 13:34:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 27/11/2006 13:10:44
Originally by: Jin Steele do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.
The mega doesn't even do short range well anymore. Everything was fine till the T2 ammo nerf. And wtf? Devs just want Caldari to snipe? Not anyone else?
Did you just say that the Devs are against anyone in the game being able to snipe besides Caldari? Did I just hear you right?
I think you did.
The "roles" of the different races have allways been. Caldari: Range. Gallente: Damage. Amarr: Tank. Minmatar: Versility.
That they don't all live up to these ideals, they are what they are supposed to work towards. Rokh just does what its supposed to.
I don't have an issue with the Rokh doing it's job. I do have an issue with no other races being able to compete with it.
Because I said so...
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |