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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.26 12:18:00 -
[31]
I guess CCP is ignoring such an easy change one again? -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:30:00 -
[32]
HAH!
I think every tax change should be put up for a vote and unless it passes it does not go in.
I see scamming with this way you to change the tax rate. My Character Stats
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Protunia I see scamming with this way you to change the tax rate.
Currently, in RMR version of Eve, any changes to the tax rate generates a notice sent to all members. Not much scam when you get told about it is there?
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Xoria Krint
The Movement
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:20:00 -
[34]
/signed, Please! ---
My Movies
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.26 23:31:00 -
[35]
Common CCP, theres still time! -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Alakazam
Bob The Builder Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.11.27 00:20:00 -
[36]
I will sign this as well,
artificial limits are silly. We want 100% tax implementation, it's very useful because it puts focus on corps and teamwork.
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Bael'Zhaeron
Minmatar Crabbs
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Posted - 2006.11.27 01:05:00 -
[37]
Please............
It's just plain wrong not being able to tax to T+TALHELLDEATH.
/signed
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.27 01:16:00 -
[38]
On another MMO I once played years ago, our Clan (as it was in that game) used to have "total donation days", where, for a day, we set tax to 95% or so forth to raise money for something specific. Was good fun, and a good morale-raising way of using team-work to get a big project done.
Would be ace if you could do that with EVE Corps. -----------------------------------------------
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 02:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Protunia I see scamming with this way you to change the tax rate.
Currently, in RMR version of Eve, any changes to the tax rate generates a notice sent to all members. Not much scam when you get told about it is there?
If the tax rate had to be voted on there would be a chance at all My Character Stats
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xena zena
AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.27 02:46:00 -
[40]
It would be probably fairly easy to implement 100% tax limit without much coding... where as any additional architecture would require more coding and be less likely to get done anytime soon or ever.
It would be technically probably not vastly difficult to make it so that in order to increase your tax rate to above 10% it would require a corp vote. And if the corp shares are spread around to different parties it would mean it couldn't be a unilateral action of one ceo, unless of course he controls all the shares.
I do agree that it should be an option, because it does artificially limit the types of corporation models that are viable in eve. Likewise I think it should be taken a step further to having a corp model where members can't have their own wallets or even assets, but to implement that it would of course require significant coding...
For the point of this discussion though 100% tax rate SHOULD be allowed.
Additional features to this would be nice to have a role based setting where you can reduce tax to different groups of your corp, so some pay more then others, along with additional things like restrict members abilities to do things like sell on the market, and refine, and build. ;-)
anyway...
/signed :P
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 03:56:00 -
[41]
Can you give money to your corp now?? like all you have in your bank?? I think you can.
Why do you need to force everyone in the corp to give 100% when they can already give you all their money anyways? My Character Stats
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 04:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Protunia Why do you need to force everyone in the corp to give 100% when they can already give you all their money anyways?
Pure CEO Answer:
- Because I want to run my corp according to what I think is right not according to what you, not in my corp or shoes, think is right for me. I want to be able to play the game without anyone else's imposed ideas placed on me just becuase they think they know better.
I think that sums up the idea quite succinctly.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 04:37:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Protunia Why do you need to force everyone in the corp to give 100% when they can already give you all their money anyways?
Pure CEO Answer:
- Because I want to run my corp according to what I think is right not according to what you, not in my corp or shoes, think is right for me. I want to be able to play the game without anyone else's imposed ideas placed on me just becuase they think they know better.
I think that sums up the idea quite succinctly.
Just a reminder its their game too not yours only.
having someone able to change things like tax rates to 100% without any sort of a vote is not fair to other players at all.
I could care less about some CEO's greed factor or what they want. Purely from a gaming standpoint members should vote on extreme changes in tax rates to a corp since with out the members there is no corp basically.
No one player should have absolute law over all other players income. sure 10% I can see if someone is willing to pay it. But 100%? nope cant see that to extreme and gives to much power over income of players to one person. My Character Stats
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 04:48:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 27/11/2006 04:48:48
Originally by: Protunia The only thing I can think of is you want to be able to play your alts and have all the income go straight to your corps account.
Your whole disagreement on this issue is nothing more than some projection of insecurity that lives in your view of the world. You think that groups of players, call it corp or clan or brotherhood, should all have an equal say in all matters. But the truth is your position is not about gameplay but ideology.
Your position is some sort of neo-democratic socialist commune of love-love and peace be all amongst the fellows within the corporation. (Overly dramatic [mis]representation yes.)
What we are asking for is the freedom to create groupings of players (corporation is just an adrogenous word for "organization" in Eve) in any possible combination that may, or may not, exist within the realm of human imagination.
This could mean a dictatorship corporation. Some may want to be in that. This could mean a retro hippie love in of galactic proportion. Some may want that too. Stop projecting your out of game beliefs of what society should be upon the rest of us.
This is a game and as such it enables many to explore, for recreational purposes, situations and exploits that would not otherwise be suitable, ethical, or legal.
(I bet some of you didn't think I understood that did you?)
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 07:44:00 -
[45]
I dont agree ;) and yeah I see what you want to do.
The thing is allowing players the right to charge others 100% with out consent just is not fair to the other people who PAY to play the game.
I see abuses coming and scams if this system was in place.
I also believe this is one of the reasons you cannot go above 10% tax.
Yes some people might be aware if they are paying 100% but some others who just started might click through and not know at all. This is why I think they do need skills for this just like there are skills for black marketing.
Again Players should be able to vote on any extreme changes going on in a corp. I do not believe in allowing dictatorships to any one person.
Say what you will but I will bet you dont get your little 100% tax scam in.
My Character Stats
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Cadiz
Caldari No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 07:59:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Protunia I dont agree ;) and yeah I see what you want to do.
The thing is allowing players the right to charge others 100% with out consent just is not fair to the other people who PAY to play the game.
I see abuses coming and scams if this system was in place.
I also believe this is one of the reasons you cannot go above 10% tax.
Yes some people might be aware if they are paying 100% but some others who just started might click through and not know at all. This is why I think they do need skills for this just like there are skills for black marketing.
Again Players should be able to vote on any extreme changes going on in a corp. I do not believe in allowing dictatorships to any one person.
Say what you will but I will bet you dont get your little 100% tax scam in.
Almost all major decisions in a corp are, at the end, punched in by the solitary CEO. They may come to those decisions after extensive discussion with other parties, but in the end the final execution lies in the hands of that solitary individual with all the mechanistic power. That's the realism of corporations in EVE - no matter how much democratizing you may do beforehand, it still all has to be finalized by the sole person who is the titular leader of the corp. In theory they are beholden to nobody but themselves, and may take whatever decisions they wish, so long as they are willing to deal with the potential membership fallout. Any sharing of power is entirely at the humour, whim, and consent of the CEO.
If you don't trust your CEO to make informed decisions that will be of the utmost benefit to the corp, then why the hell are you accepting them as your leader? Leave the god**** corp and be done with it. I personally trust my CEO implicitly, and I have wholehearted faith in his ability to make correct choices when it comes to benefitting the corporation...and the more the corp benefits, the more us members benefit by the increased availability of resources.
Plus why arbitrarily restrict things like this? Things will sort themselves out. If a leader wildly abuses the taxation ability, then I'm sure they won't have many members for too much longer. On the plus side, there are a lot of communalist organizations that could really benefit from opening up the range on taxes. My particular corp could probably make pretty extensive use of a running 25% tax, and being able to ramp up to 75% - 100% on specific corp days would be a huge benefit in terms of easing petty "paperwork" and keeping people honest.
All that aside, tax rates are clearly listed in the corporation info window, and there are corpmails sent out whenever tax rates are changed. I think that's plenty of notice to anybody who might be in or joining that corp. If a person can't be bothered to consult those two sources of information, nor can put two and two together by looking at their own wallet and figuring out the gap between what they were supposed to get and what they actually got...well, then they deserve whatever they get. Why should we be mollycoddling the dimwitted and lazy again? Last time I checked, EVE wasn't a game about protecting people from their own inability to make sound decisions. Hence my fondness for it. ------ Quartermaster, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Kayle Ki
Ktaomai Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:06:00 -
[47]
Not sure I understand what so many people are worried about.
If you're in one of those big silly corporations where the CEO doesn't know the members, and you are just along for the ride hence not wanting to pay 100% tax, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Those big wallmart corps wouldn't set a 100% tax, because they thrive off mass recruiting people like yourself incapable of putting enough thought into the corp proccess to choose something you really want to be a part of. Since people like that are specifically what Mr. Wallmart CEO needs for recruitment, and you don't want to pay 100% tax, they won't set it there.
Those of us in corps that <gasp> actually know eachother, and want to work together to build something as one, would like the ease that a 100% tax would offer. Sure, myself and my fellow corp members are able, and do, donate straight cash to the corp often. A 100% wouldn't even be enough, we'd still be donating. It'd be a nice aid though, and considering a CEO runs the corp, and there's no reason a CEO shouldn't be able to pick their tax, I can't see how allowing us that little aid would be a problem.
Short version: CCP, give CEOs a game mechanic supported method for what we commonly do already, to make life easier.
<PS- Anybody who wants to spout off that it's the nature of EVE that newbies have to work their way up through wallmart corps first, can stop before they start. Never joined one myself, and doin just fine. If you're incapable of forging your own destiny, go play WoW.>
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:33:00 -
[48]
This is why there is the Give Money to Corp button :)
USE IT! My Character Stats
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Protunia I dont agree ;) and yeah I see what you want to do.
The thing is allowing players the right to charge others 100% with out consent just is not fair to the other people who PAY to play the game.
I see abuses coming and scams if this system was in place.
I also believe this is one of the reasons you cannot go above 10% tax.
Yes some people might be aware if they are paying 100% but some others who just started might click through and not know at all. This is why I think they do need skills for this just like there are skills for black marketing.
Again Players should be able to vote on any extreme changes going on in a corp. I do not believe in allowing dictatorships to any one person.
Say what you will but I will bet you dont get your little 100% tax scam in.
"Quit Corporation", the button exists for reason. As for voting, "normal" members have no say in the corporation unless the CEO gives them that. Forcing a vote would be stupid. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:57:00 -
[50]
LOL ;) giving CEO's 100% tax rights would be Stupid! My Character Stats
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:06:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 27/11/2006 10:09:15
Unlike you most of us arent actually in a corporation where the CEO is an untrustworthy scammer. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:44:00 -
[52]
Riiiiiiggghhhhttt!!! *wink* *wink*
My Character Stats
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:48:00 -
[53]
Seing how corp tax rate is from bounties and normal mission rewards only, a 100% tax rate on anything past 50k ISK per person would not be "the end of it" no matter how you put it. As somebody else said it before, 100% tax rate with the current game mechanics is hardly a big deal.
Besides, in most cases, even if you DO NOT get any of those cash at all, you still get plenty of cash from mining, missions time bonuses and market/escrow (soon contracts) transactions... and there's always that 50k ISK limit that is "exempt" from corp tax, so I really, REALLY don't see ANY problems whatsoever with a nearly 100% or even a pure 100% tax rate.
To keep it nice and clean, just increase the max from 10% to 90% or so... I hadly believe any significant amount of coding needs to be tinkered with. _____ -sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Protunia I do not believe in allowing dictatorships to any one person.
What you believe is your right to decide for you and only you. Don't join such a corp and in doing so demonstrate that the player, ultimately, has the final say (or vote) on the matter. Originally by: Protunia Say what you will but I will bet you dont get your little 100% tax scam in.
.. .. .. .. .. .. \ / Aha... I've figured out what your point is. You have none other than to keep starting trouble and spamming this thread until it is locked. I don't think you are succeeding in drawing any flames... please stop spamming the thread with the zero statement flamebaits.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:02:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Protunia on 27/11/2006 11:02:05 Hell Im just making sure the unheard are heard before you try and waltz some change to the tax code in the game.
Just because you can get a few rosy points of view does not make this legit by any means.
I will always be against taxes in any form RL or here.
And besides if no one challenges your idea you cant improve it to make more sense ( which to me it makes none ) So keep going :) maybe you'll come up with a legit plan besides being able to tax your alts ;) My Character Stats
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:11:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Protunia And besides if no one challenges your idea you cant improve it to make more sense ( which to me it makes none ) So keep going :) maybe you'll come up with a legit plan besides being able to tax your alts ;)
Okay, let me get this straight. Anyone that is for this plan is solely interested in taxing their alts or scamming their corp mates. And you are trying to derail honest debate on this topic becuase of some out of game real life ideology that you have?
I'm just trying to help clarify exactly the true nature of your spam no matter how pretty you try to make it.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:15:00 -
[57]
I don't understand the objections to this change.
If you don't want a higher taxrate, just don't join a corp that has one, leave a corp if it implements one or make your own corp to make sure you never have to deal with it.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:25:00 -
[58]
Tax changes currently send in a corpmail the CEO can delete without a trace.
Welcome to corpgriefing. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Primnproper
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:34:00 -
[59]
Quote: I dont agree ;) and yeah I see what you want to do.
The thing is allowing players the right to charge others 100% with out consent just is not fair to the other people who PAY to play the game.
I see abuses coming and scams if this system was in place.
I also believe this is one of the reasons you cannot go above 10% tax.
Yes some people might be aware if they are paying 100% but some others who just started might click through and not know at all. This is why I think they do need skills for this just like there are skills for black marketing.
Again Players should be able to vote on any extreme changes going on in a corp. I do not believe in allowing dictatorships to any one person.
Say what you will but I will bet you dont get your little 100% tax scam in.
What you or anyone believe has NOTHING to do with this game, others may or may not agree with your or anyone elses beliefs but that is irrelavent as this is a game.
This change would allow the creation of many different kinds of corps from commune style corps where there is a 100% tax rate and everything any player wants to buy is bought from the corp wallet, to socialist corps where a high tax rate enables the redistribtution of wealth from the rich corp members to the poor corp members and even the creation of corps with a realistic tax level similar to the levels taken in the real world, this could only be a good thing.
And if a CEO does abuse the system, just as now a ceo could embezzle the corps assets and make off with all the money, then let the corp members dish out whatever justice they so wish (as long as the scammer can be found of course), just as in any other situation of scamming by a corp member.
And if the tax is set to high for a particular player or for the entire corp then there are still options available to them, from ousting the ceo to leaving the corp in search of greener pastures.
I've heard of corps which without this particular feature, demand a 100% ratting tax and merely have to rely on auditing there players manually to ensure compliance or even, demand a weekly tax from there members in return for the perks of corp membership and people are obviously prepared to pay such taxes as these corps still and exit and in some cases thrive under such conditions.
So bring the change in and allow the players to police it themselves, it works for everything else in this game and thats half the beauty of eve
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Archi Viralfury
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:32:00 -
[60]
I Aggree with the OP.
I Myself am a member of a corp (not the CEO) and the 10% tax is a real limitation. Our corp would probably charge around the 30-40% tax if it was a viable option. After all most if not ALL corps that charge a tax rate actually use that tax(income) to finance things for members - new ships, ammo, war fees, office rents, outpost funds and so on.
There will always be corps that only charge 5% or even no tax rate, but for the corps out there like mine that actually want to work as a team and build a future for our corp the ability to be 100% flexible with regards to corp Tax is a must.
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