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Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution Evictus.
160
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Posted - 2015.06.26 22:20:34 -
[91] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Vizage wrote:Funny because that sounds exactly like the opposite of what you're saying. I'm not saying CONCORD isn't coming down heavy handed but if you're going to make this wager, you'd better be prepared for to pay if you lose.
I for one would be incredibly disappointed in both sides if this lead to any unnecessary loss of life. Which from your position looks almost certainly like it will.
-K As I said, i will stand by my comrade's side. What are you going to do?
I am going to do the only thing I can do. Implore both sides to see reason. But given CONCORDS rather brutish and ignorant flexing of power I very much doubt they are as willing to listen like my fellow capsuleers.
As I said, you're either wagering what they've said is a bluff, or ignoring the very real consequences it will have it they aren't. While I dearly hope for the former, I'm more inclined on belief of the latter.
Anslo wrote: I'm sorry but it's hard to justify working with a bunch of vindictive thugs when they condemn everyone for the bullheaded actions of a single idiot.
It's not about working with them. CONCORD has made it clear they don't want to work with us, but rather simply comply with their demands.
That may be a hard pill to swallow, but I'd hope many of us would rather pay this fee with their pride rather than their crewmen.
Aria Jenneth wrote: Um ... we are talking about capsuleers and CONCORD, aren't we?
Considering the record on either side, and especially CONCORD's usual approach to punishing capsuleers ... wouldn't it be much more surprising if nobody died?
(I agree that it's maybe not a good idea to be defying CONCORD, but it's going to be pretty neat to see whether we can, and how far....)
While not wrong Ms. Jenneth, it doesn't justify further loss, especially over what is essentially already a corpse.
Liam Antolliere wrote:...if CONCORD wishes to persist in this flagrant abuse of power and disregard for the spirit of justice, you may as well adjust my standings as well.
Be careful what you wish for.... |
Liam Antolliere
Liberty Vanguard
583
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Posted - 2015.06.26 22:38:32 -
[92] - Quote
Vizage wrote:Be careful what you wish for....
Sage advice.
However, what I wish for is reason and a leveled approach to the situation, one that honors the pursuit and enforcement of justice while also respecting and honoring the spirit of the law as it pertains to individual action and cooperation.
If I get what I wish, then all of this will result in CONCORD turning its attention toward the legal acquisition of that which it pursues through the resources and channels available to it without the disregard for individual liberty and lack of recognition of their spirit of cooperation.
If I don't get what I wish, then I'll not back out of the way and let this injustice proceed without some manner of standing against it. What good is a conviction if you are unwilling to face the consequences for adhering to it?
"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."
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Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
550
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Posted - 2015.06.26 22:39:02 -
[93] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Whether or not they are unjust is irrelevant. The only variable that determines PIE's stance is Amarr's stance, and the Court Chamberlain has made Amarr's stance clear. Perhaps some people place value in rioting against authority, but PIE does not. Order demands compliance with lawful authority, regardless of whatever personal reservations one may have with that authority.
House Raholan stands to lose its titles and land and their lord be declared a criminal by Imperial authorities. Should SFRIM continue to stand by Lucas Raholan, they will be demonstrating support for his actions. PIE will not have our own name dragged through the mud as a result of the scandalous activities of our affiliates. They either sever their support of anti-authoritarian activities or it is very likely that we sever our support of them. This should not be surprising.
"But guilt by association!" you will say. Well, yes. One's character is indeed determined by the company they keep.
Ms. Kernher,
I'm quite concerned with your blatant misrepresentation of bot the Court Chamberlains words as well as SFRIM's actions in this matter.
The Court Chamberlain clearly criticized CONCORD for its heavy handed actions, which you frame one-sidedly as "solidarity with Concord in this matter". While there is some sympathy to see in the Court Chamberlains condemnation of the desecration of the remains of Dr. Tukoss, the Court Chamberlain has given a much more differentiated stance than the one you're ascribing.
If you'd have been in communication on these matters with your superiors, like Fleet Captain Shutaq, you'd know that SFRIM has so far tried to bring this situation to a solution by convincing Cpt. Raholan to comply with CONCORD.
SFRIM will continue to do so, and while we don't condone his actions in this matter - and already haven taken disciplinary measures, to the degree possible - we very much agree with the Court Chancelor in the cirtique of the Directive Enforcement Department and its heavy handed actions: If more resonable steps would have been taken, SFRIM would have had much more opportunity to bring this situation to resolution, than we have now. In the end, even though pilot Raholan is a member of our organisation, we can't force him to comply with these DED's demands and strategy of CONCORD in handling this severely limited our ability to convince Lucas Raholan to comply.
Therefore, SFRIM sees the escalation strategy by CONCORD and the DED in this matter with concern. Yet, we will keep on woring towards a resolution.
Our sympathies are especially with those capsuleers that have to suffer under sanctions without having any ability to comply with CONCORD's demands.
Regards, - N. Mithra Directix/CEO [SFRIM] |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1694
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Posted - 2015.06.26 22:52:44 -
[94] - Quote
A member of your corporation is involved in a scandal. In order to preserve your corporation from the stain of that scandal, his removal will most likely be necessary if he continues to refuse to comply with CONCORD's demands. You may not be able to force him to give up the biomass, but you do have the ability to distance your corporation from him.
And in spite of your assumptions, I have been in communication with my superiors.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
551
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Posted - 2015.06.26 23:40:14 -
[95] - Quote
Then you should've had no reason to misrepresent the actions taken by SFRIM: You should have known that we don't - at all - support any defiance to legal authority. Yet you did misrepresent our actions as such in your previous post.
Also, whether we will have to remove pilot Raholan or if we will be able to convince him to do the right thing is yet open: There is no need for you to speculate on this. Much less do you need to speculate on what actions SFRIM will take if this situation will find no reasonable solution: You can rest assured that SFRIM will do the right thing. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3465
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Posted - 2015.06.27 00:15:42 -
[96] - Quote
Hello, lovelies!
As of 22:54 CONCORD time, pilot Scherezad has been placed under corporate arrest and administrative leave by authority of the Ishukone-Raata Internal Watch. She is now in my custody.
Until this situation is resolved we will ensure that she continues to be fully cooperative with the authorities involved, without severing her employment contract and benefits package. Due to her exemplary service to the State and Ishukone, we feel this is the most gentle option we have available. Visitation by friends and family will of course be allowed, and she will remain free to resign her employment status at any time.
To our understanding, pilot Scherezad has already cooperated and submitted to the demands of the DED by contracting over all materials and information she has access to. Until further demands are made, there is little more she or Ishukone-Raata can do to address the situation.
Due to her noted efforts to comply, we currently have no plans to terminate Scherezad's employment contract, and advise strongly against any hasty diplomatic changes.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki
~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer
~ [I-RED] Director of Internal Affairs
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1697
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Posted - 2015.06.27 00:25:38 -
[97] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Also, whether we will have to remove pilot Raholan or if we will be able to convince him to do the right thing is yet open: There is no need for you to speculate on this. Much less do you need to speculate on what actions SFRIM will take if this situation will find no reasonable solution: You can rest assured that SFRIM will do the right thing.
I have speculated on nothing. I have only said that if SFRIM does not convince him to hand over the biomass, or remove him, then there will be issues for the corporation. If SFRIM does convince him, or alternatively removes him, then there won't be issues.
I apologize if the 'if-then' statement in my posts was unclear.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
968
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 00:25:42 -
[98] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:As of 22:54 CONCORD time, pilot Scherezad has been placed under corporate arrest and administrative leave by authority of the Ishukone-Raata Internal Watch. She is now in my custody. Um ... respectfully, is there no alternative to this, Ms. Oniseki?
Or is this, maybe, something a little different than it sounds?
I've been confined to quarters before. It was a horrible experience. Admittedly there were circumstances that made it ... worse, but ...
From what you're saying, surely Ms. Scherezad can't be considered to have acted improperly? So, respectfully, why detain her? |
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
553
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 00:35:39 -
[99] - Quote
I'm confident that I-RED's decision to detain Cpt. Scherezad is for the best of all involved parties. Thorugh it, they show that they are quite capable of level-headed decisions. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3465
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Posted - 2015.06.27 00:40:47 -
[100] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:As of 22:54 CONCORD time, pilot Scherezad has been placed under corporate arrest and administrative leave by authority of the Ishukone-Raata Internal Watch. She is now in my custody. Um ... respectfully, is there no alternative to this, Ms. Oniseki? Or is this, maybe, something a little different than it sounds? I've been confined to quarters before. It was a horrible experience. Admittedly there were circumstances that made it ... worse, but ... From what you're saying, surely Ms. Scherezad can't be considered to have acted improperly? So, respectfully, why detain her?
I'd rather not discuss more details in public out of respect for her.
I will reiterate that visitation is perfectly allowed for anybody concerned for her well being.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki
~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer
~ [I-RED] Director of Internal Affairs
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Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
987
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Posted - 2015.06.27 01:02:43 -
[101] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Hello, lovelies!
As of 22:54 CONCORD time, pilot Scherezad has been placed under corporate arrest and administrative leave by authority of the Ishukone-Raata Internal Watch. She is now in my custody.
Until this situation is resolved we will ensure that she continues to be fully cooperative with the authorities involved, without severing her employment contract and benefits package. Due to her exemplary service to the State and Ishukone, we feel this is the most gentle option we have available. Visitation by friends and family will of course be allowed, and she will remain free to resign her employment status at any time.
To our understanding, pilot Scherezad has already cooperated and submitted to the demands of the DED by contracting over all materials and information she has access to. Until further demands are made, there is little more she or Ishukone-Raata can do to address the situation.
Due to her noted efforts to comply, we currently have no plans to terminate Scherezad's employment contract, and advise strongly against any hasty diplomatic changes. I am glad you are at least being level headed. The other posts from I-RED leadership along with those if PIE indicate a desire to burn bridges rather than properly handle this absurd situation.
I still must protest actions taken against persons who have no control over the situation, however.
Again, while I am against how severe the punishments leveled against Raholan, I can at least concede defiance of the DED is at least a concise choice on his part. The rest, however have been wrongfully implicated, and are being held hostage, and it is unfortunate to see Corporations and alliances following CONCORD 's example in this matter, by attempting to diminish the corporations and individuals involved. |
Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
196
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 01:14:50 -
[102] - Quote
I am disappointed that CONCORD has only escalated an already delicate situation with unreasonable demands unbecoming of a supposedly civilized institution. I once had respect for the institution, but I fear it waning every day while it seeks only to amass power without regard to any checks or balances.
I once again offer Project Compass Holdings' full support, both materiel and moral, to any of the afflicted pilots.
Author, EVE Travel
Author, EVE Lore Survival Guide
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Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
1137
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Posted - 2015.06.27 01:20:07 -
[103] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:From what you're saying, surely Ms. Scherezad can't be considered to have acted improperly? So, respectfully, why detain her? There is the matter of the giant bounty on her head.
Though we all know what an ethical and gentle people capsuleers are, 25 PLEX might motivate others to seek her out and do her harm.
Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
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Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
172
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Posted - 2015.06.27 02:07:57 -
[104] - Quote
We are not always criminals because we like to create mayhem, sell slaves, take advantage of the inherently stupid and commit general acts of debauchery.
Not always.
Sometimes, when you exist outside the law, you see the law-makers as being more corrupt and dishonest then any den of thieves.
In other words, "I told you so."
Miss Priano and company, I understand your reasons for not wanting to "flee into darkness." Might I suggest you advance towards the light.
Utopia is a haven for many who CONCORD have branded "Outlaw." And Angels are never far.
Should you wish to stay in CONCORD space and need a legal team, please contact me privately.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Liam Antolliere
Liberty Vanguard
585
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 02:13:10 -
[105] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:From what you're saying, surely Ms. Scherezad can't be considered to have acted improperly? So, respectfully, why detain her?
I would suggest it's more a state of "protective custody" than detainment.
From an outside observation, at least.
"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5085
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 02:21:55 -
[106] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:As of 22:54 CONCORD time, pilot Scherezad has been placed under corporate arrest and administrative leave by authority of the Ishukone-Raata Internal Watch. She is now in my custody. Um ... respectfully, is there no alternative to this, Ms. Oniseki? Or is this, maybe, something a little different than it sounds? I've been confined to quarters before. It was a horrible experience. Admittedly there were circumstances that made it ... worse, but ... From what you're saying, surely Ms. Scherezad can't be considered to have acted improperly? So, respectfully, why detain her? I'd rather not discuss more details in public out of respect for her. I will reiterate that visitation is perfectly allowed for anybody concerned for her well being.
Can I bring her a cake?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6744
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 02:54:29 -
[107] - Quote
Concord's command must be hitting the boosters pretty hard these days.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1937
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Posted - 2015.06.27 03:15:17 -
[108] - Quote
Lemon spicecake please, Pieter. The sort with the gingery taste and the raisins and the lemon glaze.
I should probably eat something. |
Luis Norelius
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.27 03:21:27 -
[109] - Quote
DED's reaction in the Hilen biomass case is making me rethink my career path. Up until now I've been a peaceful explorer pursuing new discoveries and expanding our knowledge of our past and future. If threat's against IKAME realise, I'll retreat into space where DED's heavy hands won't reach. Just for the record, I am 100% behind our CEO, Makoto Priano. I acknowledge and am grateful for the support of other capsuleers in this case.
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1069
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 09:32:33 -
[110] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Also, whether we will have to remove pilot Raholan or if we will be able to convince him to do the right thing is yet open: There is no need for you to speculate on this. Much less do you need to speculate on what actions SFRIM will take if this situation will find no reasonable solution: You can rest assured that SFRIM will do the right thing. I have speculated on nothing. I have only said that if SFRIM does not convince him to hand over the biomass, or remove him, then there will be issues for the corporation. If SFRIM does convince him, or alternatively removes him, then there won't be issues. I apologize if the 'if-then' statement in my posts was unclear.
You have already explained your stance perfectly in the first of your statements.
If you really intend to bring further diplomatic issues in public between PIE Inc and SFRIM, do it. |
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terzslave
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
187
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Posted - 2015.06.27 10:37:28 -
[111] - Quote
An attack on IKAME is an attack on the State itself. I call for the CEP to take a stance against CONCORD and their DED cronies! |
Utari Onzo
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
292
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Posted - 2015.06.27 11:57:20 -
[112] - Quote
terzslave wrote:An attack on IKAME is an attack on the State itself. I call for the CEP to take a stance against CONCORD and their DED cronies!
A heavy handed, but perfectly legal action against a group of Capsuleers is somehow an attack on the State itself? Hardly.
In the case of CONCORD's actions, they have been trying to break open a nut with a sledgehammer, but ultimately they are following procedure. They do, infact, have the legal authority to conduct themselves in this manner. The Chamberlain's Court has already deplored such heavy handed actions, but has threatened punitive measures against Imperial citizens involved in not handing over the remains, in this case we assume His Lordship Raholan. I fail to see how the State is going to put its own neck out for one small group of Capsuleers.
I, for one, am very sorry that the others involved are being threatened with sanctions because of the words and deeds of one errant Lord. My Lord Raholan, I urge you to reconsider your actions, and hand over the remains. Don't let your friends, and worst of all your very House, suffer for your pride.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Anslo
Scope Works
31843
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Posted - 2015.06.27 12:20:32 -
[113] - Quote
He doesn't care who suffers. He hides behind the weak reasoning that his actions "stick it to the man" for the inaction of CONCORD against the Minmatar for the Elder fleets attack. Meanwhile, officials of the very home he wishes justice for is telling the idiot to turn it over. Honestly I don't think he cares for anything except the attention and the feeling of being a "rebel." Do yourself a favor Raholan, leave legally dubious actions to those of us who know what were doing, you playing bad boy is hurting people who have no right to be hurt, and who were given no choice in their fate.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Constance Bonacieux
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1
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Posted - 2015.06.27 12:30:59 -
[114] - Quote
Why not simply hand umm 'the remains' over to the Kingdom or Imperial Governments. They can then negotiate with Concord. Problem solved! |
Lord Kailethre
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
112
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Posted - 2015.06.27 12:54:45 -
[115] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:Lemon spicecake please, Pieter. The sort with the gingery taste and the raisins and the lemon glaze.
I should probably eat something.
Oooooh, can I get some of those, please? I'll trade you some uhmmm... *rummages lunchbox* ...some fruit? |
Frenjo Borkstar
Borkstar Laboratories
89
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Posted - 2015.06.27 14:25:51 -
[116] - Quote
Arek'Jaalan and Borkstar Laboratories firmly stand by Makoto Priano and Lucas Raholan. CONCORD have really pushed us all over the edge this time, and we cannot condone such actions.
If CONCORD try to take any remains or any equipment, it should be destroyed - I know mine will be.
Makoto, Lucas, if you need supplies or anything, contact me and I'll deliver them personally.
Dr. Frenjo Borkstar,
Project Lead for Arek'Jaalan's Project Salus.
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Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
29
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Posted - 2015.06.27 14:26:16 -
[117] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Pilots;
I can only assume that KorachiGÇÖs insistence that we only communicate with him is in part because he is overstepping his mandate; I can only assume that other commanders within CONCORD are more diplomatic, are better able to interface with the independent Capsuleers that form this clusterGÇÖs best defense against the Nation and other threats, are more understanding of the free-spiritedness and pride of many of the most powerful individuals in existence.
[...]
It remains my hope that Korachi has overstepped his bounds, and that by shining a light on his intransigence those within CONCORD who are better able to serve the needs of CONCORD and the cluster may rise to serve in his stead.
Considering that DED director Arve Vesren herself has issued a decree supporting the statements of Odo Korachi it seems like your hopes are in vain.
I begin to get the impression that the DED are developing ever further into an out-of-control goonsquad. Let us not forget that it was only recently that they detained journalists without charge or due process for the simple act of publishing the material of a whistleblower.
CONCORD was founded to a large extent on the efforts of the great Gallente president and advocate for peace Aidonis Elabon. The DED of today are trampling on the very ideals that their organisation were once built upon. |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
29
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Posted - 2015.06.27 14:51:26 -
[118] - Quote
I have written a petition to my representatives Admiral Auvier Bauvon and General Allisa Audere. I hope it makes a difference. Here is what I wrote:
Quote:
Admiral Bauvon, General Audere
As a Federation citizen and member of the Gallente Militia I am deeply concerned about the course the DED has taken in their latest persecution of capsuleers who have done nothing wrong except disputing their right to determine the fate of the remains of an esteemed colleague and scientist, Hilen Tukoss.
While the DED might have a mandate to establish the identity of the deceased beyond a doubt, the decrees by Brigardier Odo Korachi and Madame Arve Vesren go way beyond what can be called due process and even common sense. Putting bounties on the heads of capsuleer scientists because of a simple dispute about potential evidence is unprecedented. The bounty itself even exceeds what was offered for the destruction of Provist insurrectionalists who were proven criminals and terrorists!
Considering that the very existence of CONCORD and therefore the DED can be traced back to the efforts of our own great president Aidonis Elabon, I strongly feel that the Gallente Federation should respond to this latest excessive overstepping of boundaries by leading DED personnel, particularly as it follows on the heels of the unlawful detention of two innocent Gallente journalists in the connection with Eifyr&Co. whistleblower case.
I trust that you will use your authority as leading Gallente commanders in an effort to rein in the DED and make it serve justice and peace rather than abusing their power to persecute innocents, something we are unfortunately all too familiar with from our own history.
Sincerely Commander Tarek Raimo of the Eleutherian Guard
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Samantha Calderon
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
6
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Posted - 2015.06.27 15:57:32 -
[119] - Quote
It is remarcable to see the first sprouts of capsuller class-consciousness here. |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
894
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Posted - 2015.06.27 16:25:23 -
[120] - Quote
Have you been afforded Counsle? While any cooperation may set standings as they see fit, the seizing of assets can only be done through a Court of law in each of the recognized empires and Concord tribunal. At each of these you are afforded the right to an attorney of your choosing and cost or a Defender of Law for free. DED has no right to size your assets without due process. DED does not have the authority to seize your assets outside of Concord/DED facilities with out such due process.
Maybe the good DED must reread the condord charter.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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