Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope Gallente Federation
436
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 05:38:18 -
[121] - Quote
Thermodynamics V is LITERALLY one of the best skills in the game. End of story.
If you dont agree, you must be a pve carebear or just in 200vs200 or 1k vs 1k F1 fleet battles.
Thermo 5 seriously top 5 skills in entire game honestly. LEGIT |
Portmanteau
oooh ponies
64
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 10:31:55 -
[122] - Quote
There's several things wrong with solo/small pvp at the moment, heating your mods is not one of them. While we're talking about it, receiving OGB should prevent heating modules/use of thermodynamic skill, that ought to sort a few issues out and not be that hard to implement |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
422
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 10:54:37 -
[123] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Thermodynamics V is LITERALLY one of the best skills in the game. End of story.
If you dont agree, you must be a pve carebear or just in 200vs200 or 1k vs 1k F1 fleet battles.
Thermo 5 seriously top 5 skills in entire game honestly. LEGIT Fun fact, the new burner missions (well they're a year old now but still) require either OH or dedspace modules and sometimes both (if you want to go fast). So yea even PvE carebears are using OH now. And yes I have lost a ship (once) to burning out my guns in one of these missions.
OH has managed to make up for cases where i lacked the skills, for example it comes quite in handy in team burners because I don't have all the missile/rocket damage skills to V yet. OH helps me burn through logi reps.
It's a really fun and interesting mechanic that I'd hate to see go now that it's become useful in PvE |
Black Panpher
Middle-aged pony tail
4719
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 11:51:31 -
[124] - Quote
TLDR; OP was killed by "really thick people" who know how to skill and use overheating.
/thread |
Memphis Baas
616
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 12:08:50 -
[125] - Quote
So, overheating is a thing that's been added a number of years back, much like booster drugs and ship rigs. So there was a time before overheating existed, and some of us remember it.
Things were the same as now. Some people won, some people lost. Based on using officer modules, faction ammo, or even based on having less internet lag than the enemy.
The game has ALWAYS been about maximizing one single thing about your ship and making sure you only engage if the situation exactly matches that. Simply put, overheating is one more thing that everyone maximizes, and if you take it away, the guy with the faction ammo, officer modules, bigger ship, and friends still wins.
I disagree that overheating is overpowered, but don't care to argue it, because if CCP wanted to remove overheating they would have to:
- rebalance ships so we can still win the harder PVE encounters without overheating - figure out another ISK sink because we no longer burn out modules and/or have to pay through the nose for thermal paste to repair them.
So it's more work for them, to fix something that isn't broken. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
422
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 12:12:41 -
[126] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:...fix something that isn't broken. That pretty much sums up OH. Theres a lot of broken in this game. OH is not one of them. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3232
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 12:33:32 -
[127] - Quote
If you think overheating is OP you've clearly never burned out your modules. |
Salvos Rhoska
1528
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 12:59:50 -
[128] - Quote
I also tend to agree its a bit too good. Could perhaps use just a very tiny balance pass.
But I dont think that would substantially change anything except as a small tuning. And against that, its important it remains as a universally available equalizer as compared to other boosts (various consumables, bling modules etc, both in addition to them, and in their absence).
Very low priority. Working within acceptable parameters.
PvE v PvP
|
Portmanteau
oooh ponies
65
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 15:43:20 -
[129] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I also tend to agree its a bit too good. Could perhaps use just a very tiny balance pass.
But I dont think that would substantially change anything except as a small tuning. And against that, its important it remains as a universally available equalizer as compared to other boosts (various consumables, bling modules etc, both in addition to them, and in their absence).
Very low priority. Working within acceptable parameters.
Balance passes are something that applies to certain ship classes or certain modules, certain kinds of propulsion or ewar or turrets/launchers when they clearly outclass the others in their field.
How do you balance pass thermodynamics ? What do you balance it against ? All ships can use mods that can be over heated. All types of turret/ launcher can be overheated. All propulsion mods can be overheated... you see where I'm going with this right ?
It seems the only thing that overheating modules can be balanced around is the skill of people who can do it properly and those who cannot, balance passes should not be used to remove player ability/skill from the equation. |
Salvos Rhoska
1528
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:12:13 -
[130] - Quote
Anything with stats can be given a balance pass.
The balance pass of thermodynamics is measured against its own current magnitudes, as well as against other commodity based boost such as drugs.
The rest is already covered and explained in my previous posts.
The skill of the pilot using it remains what it is, as yourself stated, as an external element.
PvE v PvP
|
|
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 18:43:30 -
[131] - Quote
OH can in some rare cases equal out the playing field for newish pilots. For example catching a l33t garmur pilot in a speed fitted atron, firetail, slasher or firetail.
I only have lvl 4 thermodynamics, and was able to catch up with a garmur pilot once on an alt in a comet. Ofc. due to inexperience I overshot him, burned out my prop mod and died horribly but atleast I had a chance to catch him, which I would not have had without OH(HG Pirate implants, higher grade combat boosters and Off grid boosting are not available to most newer players.).
I don't think it is OP as long as you have a chance to cribble yourself by burning out something (One could ofc. always discuss if some of the modules should burn out faster). It is the same with higher grade combat boosters. You also have a chance to cribble yourself by using them. And as such you gain an advantage by risking horrible disadvantages, seems pretty "EVE online" to me. |
Portmanteau
oooh ponies
65
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 20:01:58 -
[132] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Anything with stats can be given a balance pass.
The balance pass of thermodynamics is measured against its own current magnitudes, as well as against other commodity based boost such as drugs.
The rest is already covered and explained in my previous posts.
The skill of the pilot using it remains what it is, as yourself stated, as an external element.
That's a fair point and I'll concede on it. Where we disagree is that overheating is "a little" OP, assuming you mean compared to boosters and links ? You pointed out yourself that using thermodynamics requires player skill, neither boosters or links require any skill whatsoever, only isk. There is also the issue of risk, with overheating, complete burnout of modules is a risk, with boosters, some small % side effect is a risk but mods will still function, with links there is essentially no risk at all.
There is simply no case to be made that overheating is OP in comparison to boosters and links, if anything I'd say it was underpowered, but TBH I'm not making a case for it to be buffed, just sorting links would be enough, but that's another discussion.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1808
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 21:31:39 -
[133] - Quote
lilol' me wrote:So I been thinking a lot recently, looking at videos etc and overheating seems pretty much the thing everyone does almost immediately when going into a fight.
When overheating was first introduced its was supposed to be like that last minute saviour,
in a frig fight the whole fight is the last minute
in more sustained fights heat is something that has to be managed. Although on something like an ASB heat is very useful as you only get 9 boosts and you want to maximize each one. in many situations you are also only using one or two boosts at a time, plus the minute reload is also enough for the rack to cool down some.
oh yea, and last time I was in a typhoon I decided to try RHMLs and well... they burned out about 1/2 way through the clip. boo
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Memphis Baas
617
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 23:03:09 -
[134] - Quote
People overheat as soon as the fight starts because:
1. You often blow up (or win) in a few seconds.
2. You take one look at their ship and KNOW whether you can win or not. So you overheat to GTFO or overheat to kill them before their friends arrive.
3. Eve combat doesn't have tricks up the sleeves. You don't dual-tank (armor and shields), you try to have all your weapons be the same, you start with the maximum damage ammo, etc. If you don't shoot with everything, you're doing it wrong (it's the same in RL too).
How can I put it... in chess, each piece moves a certain way and will "take" the opponent's piece if it's in the destination square. The knights, rooks, bishops don't have tricks up their sleeves. Chess is not a game where your pieces can pull out fireballs or ice lances or lightning bolts, at your whim, the game is about applying the pieces that you have in order to win.
Same thing with EVE, you have to bring enough scouts, tacklers, DPS, logis, and jammers to win, not just the individual fight but the war as a whole. And each one of those ships will shoot with everything that it has on the primary target. No sleeves.
People overheat, use the booster drugs, use the faction ammo, warp in at sniper range, etc. immediately because the fight will be over in seconds. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
374
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 23:39:18 -
[135] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Anything with stats can be given a balance pass.
The balance pass of thermodynamics is measured against its own current magnitudes, as well as against other commodity based boost such as drugs.
The rest is already covered and explained in my previous posts.
The skill of the pilot using it remains what it is, as yourself stated, as an external element.
here's balance and no need to change a fecking thing.
train the skill to 5.
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5410
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 02:49:25 -
[136] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Never heat-damage a capital module.
Ouch. That's a lot of paste. How much paste does it take? Plus can't you just repair it in a station? Assuming the following formula is correct:
Required Nanite Paste = CEIL((Module Base Price / 13,000 ) * ( Damaged HP / Total HP ) * (1 - 0.05 * Nanite Operation skill level))
Capital Shield Booster I HP: 40 Base Price: 51002322
Required Nanite Paste = CEIL((51002322 / 13000 ) * ( 40 / 40 ) * (1 - 0.05 * 5)) = 2943
With Nanite Paste at 18099.93 ISK in Jita, that's 53,268,093.99 ISK of paste to repair.
I was in w-space, and couldn't dock at a station to repair.
The time I had to rep an Orca at 2% structure with a small structure repper was far more painful. |
Commander Spurty
Perkone Caldari State
1573
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 16:06:29 -
[137] - Quote
Used to be that overheating for more than one cycle was the end of "that module and its neighbor" for anything not a tech 3 cruiser.
Now, you can often overheat the entire fight (with skills). No issues
Not sure I mind that tbh
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
|
Spurty
Moosearmy Gentlemen's.Parlor
1573
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 16:06:29 -
[138] - Quote
Used to be that overheating for more than one cycle was the end of "that module and its neighbor" for anything not a tech 3 cruiser.
Now, you can often overheat the entire fight (with skills). No issues
Not sure I mind that tbh
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5412
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 22:04:28 -
[139] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Used to be that overheating for more than one cycle was the end of "that module and its neighbor" for anything not a tech 3 cruiser.
Now, you can often overheat the entire fight (with skills). No issues
Not sure I mind that tbh Shield hardeners tend to last 2.5 minutes.
MWD and turrets don't last long at all.
Not all modules react the same. Also heat damage = structure damage, and T1 / T2 / faction differ in the damage they can take and the heat they generate. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
446
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 22:47:22 -
[140] - Quote
You can in fact be in case where the heated module is not the one that burns out first.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1067
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 05:33:54 -
[141] - Quote
lilol' me wrote:So I been thinking a lot recently, looking at videos etc and overheating seems pretty much the thing everyone does almost immediately when going into a fight.
When overheating was first introduced its was supposed to be like that last minute saviour, or something to get you out of trouble, however the amount of time you can now overheat, especially with skills is far too OP and too long. You can almost overheat especially in smaller ship fights for most of the fight. Surely there is something a little wrong there. Overheating should only be for a short period, shouldn't it? Your guns, or mods should burn out far more quickly than they do, otherwise you might as well just give every mod those extra increase normally.
feel it same way. overheating shouldnt be something everyone does as per default. There should be maybe a good chance of instant module burnout any time you overheat a module. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1625
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 06:38:11 -
[142] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Anything with stats can be given a balance pass.
The balance pass of thermodynamics is measured against its own current magnitudes, as well as against other commodity based boost such as drugs.
The rest is already covered and explained in my previous posts.
The skill of the pilot using it remains what it is, as yourself stated, as an external element.
dude ...as far as I can see you don-¦t even pvp.
Why did this thread resurface anyways? It was dead and buried months ago.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |