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Kestral Anneto
The Founding Four Fidelas Constans
73
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Posted - 2015.06.28 12:32:22 -
[1] - Quote
OK, so been hunting for a clear deffinate answer for this, no joy. I run guristas anom's out in null, currently using drones, however, i'm finding drones to hands off, so i'd like to use guns. My problem is the jamming rats, does ECCM work against them? Can I slap a sensor backup array into my fit to reduce the chance of the rats jamming me? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1410
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Posted - 2015.06.28 13:47:49 -
[2] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:OK, so been hunting for a clear deffinate answer for this, no joy. I run guristas anom's out in null, currently using drones, however, i'm finding drones to hands off, so i'd like to use guns. My problem is the jamming rats, does ECCM work against them? Can I slap a sensor backup array into my fit to reduce the chance of the rats jamming me?
Yes it works, it lowers the chance of being jammed but it doesn't completely prevent it of course and that is why most people, being incapable of reasoned logic and balanced opinions, will tell you it's "useless, crap and doesn't do anything". It lowers the chance which on average means you will be jammed less which means you have more time to apply dps. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
686
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Posted - 2015.06.28 14:12:24 -
[3] - Quote
It works the same way that it does against players, the chance of being jammed is Jammer Strength / Sensor Strength. Increase your sensor strength and you decrease the jam chance per jammer.
That said, none of the diminishing returns stuff that tends to apply to players ever applies to NPCs, so the other ways of dealing with ECM (e.g. ranging them to decrease strength with falloff etc) aren't going to do anything, chances are it's going to be an 'anything on-grid that's aggressed to you can point its ECM at you' thing. If there's a huge swarm of jammers in your anom you may be stuck popping out your drones or pulling out the FoF missiles even with sensor strength boosted.
(The most annoying "NPCs use simpler math" thing is probably sensor damping, where they literally just don't have the diminishing returns factor that players do and can damp your 100 km railgun boat down to 10 m. No, that second one isn't missing a 'k'.) |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1410
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Posted - 2015.06.28 14:27:34 -
[4] - Quote
Those are compounding "debuffs", ECM is chance based for each and every npc trying to apply it. If you double your sensor strength you halve the chance of being jammed, assuming you're not perma jammed (another concept most people don't understand and will just use left and right).
So if you're, lets say, jammed 30% of the time it halves that, on average, meaning you gain 15% more time to dps which pretty much equates to a 15% dps increase. I'd say that's pretty good. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
631
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Posted - 2015.06.28 15:34:39 -
[5] - Quote
I can't speak for anoms but I do have some experience with Guristas level 4 missions. I used to live in caldari space and ran them a lot. I would run them in Minmatar ships and eventually wound up in a Vargur. Prior to the bastion mode being introduced there were certain missions that my Vargur was almost perma jammed and I'd have count on my drones to slowly kill them or sometimes would just switch to a dominix.
My cousin would run them in a Tengu and his amount of down time being locked up in the same missions was far far less. Like when I would be perma jammed he would only be jammed about 10% of the time. I'm not talking about us in the same mission together I'm talking about me running it my self or me being at his house watching him run it by himself.
Things worth noting is that back then Minmatar were known for having the lowest sensor strength of all the races and Marauders were notorious for having low sensor strength for a BS class ship so the Vargur was likely the absolute worst ship to use against them back then. Now-a-days you have the bastion module which if you are deep enough into blue space could be a good option.
Make sure that your targeting skills that affect sensor strength are skilled up. Beyond that you could read up on how ECM works in this game because I think that signature radius figures in somehow or at least I'm pretty sure it used to but my best advice is like everything in this game you should not take anyone's word on anything. You can get advice but you have to confirm that through results. In this case it would seem to me to be much easier to just fit some ECCM and go run some anoms and see for yourself how well it works rather than come here and ask about EFT warrioring. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1410
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Posted - 2015.06.28 16:49:29 -
[6] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Beyond that you could read up on how ECM works in this game because I think that signature radius figures in somehow or at least I'm pretty sure it used to but my best advice is like everything in this game you should not take anyone's word on anything.
Sig radius is only accounted for when being probed out, where the two variables (sensor strength vs. sig radius) decide how easy it is to probe the ship. For jamming sig radius is not a factor, it's just sensor strength.
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Amanda Chan
Error 404 Pod Not Found
25
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Posted - 2015.06.29 06:02:22 -
[7] - Quote
You could always use a Marauder and drop a Mobile Scan Inhibitor. At ~23 million a pop in Jita it means somebody's gotta land on grid to investigate to know what hijinks you're up before they discover your're floating in a billion isk boat.
If that's not up your alley you could alway switch to missiles and use auto-targeting ones.
Yes ECCM does work vs Rat Jamming but we both know you'll still get jammed at the most inopportune moments when RNG goes trololol did you want to do something for the next 30 seconds(3 jams in a row is worst RNG has ever trolled me). |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
1013
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Posted - 2015.06.29 11:41:09 -
[8] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote: So if you're, lets say, jammed 30% of the time it halves that, on average, meaning you gain 15% more time to dps which pretty much equates to a 15% dps increase. I'd say that's pretty good.
It should actually be a lot higher as with personal DPS increase you also decrease enemy jamming faster as well.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1195
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Posted - 2015.06.29 11:58:54 -
[9] - Quote
check the jam strength of rats here: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=23648
check jam chance here: http://pmic-eve.info/ECM_Calc/ECM_Chance_Calculator.html
Figure out if you need ECCM or not. Usually one module is enough for rats.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5035
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:30:38 -
[10] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:OK, so been hunting for a clear deffinate answer for this, no joy. I run guristas anom's out in null, currently using drones, however, i'm finding drones to hands off, so i'd like to use guns. My problem is the jamming rats, does ECCM work against them? Can I slap a sensor backup array into my fit to reduce the chance of the rats jamming me? If you are in a Minmatar ship, forget ECCM.
If you are in a Caldari ship, you may have some success with ECCM.
Best solution is use a Marauder in bastion mode. [I really like my Vargur.] |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3464
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:37:42 -
[11] - Quote
There is a way to manage the drones when dealing with ECM. After they kill a target, have them return to the bay, then relaunch them. The next ECM that hits you will send the drones to that NPC. Your drones eventually get all the ECM ships, leaving you free to shoot the rest.
And yes, ECCM will help, if you can spare the slots.
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Frozen fanfiction
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
632
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:25:20 -
[12] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:
Sig radius is only accounted for when being probed out, where the two variables (sensor strength vs. sig radius) decide how easy it is to probe the ship. For jamming sig radius is not a factor, it's just sensor strength.
If this is the case now it certainly was not a few years back which is the last time I've had to deal with Guristas. Sorry for the confusion with out dated mechanics. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
633
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:06:05 -
[13] - Quote
My understanding of eccm and missions is that apart from it preventing jamming, it aggravates the rats and prevents them from retargeting your drones. Thus you can drop sentries or whatever then orbit something in a fast kittie ship without the rats switching to your drones leaving you free to make a samwhich while the drones kill everything.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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