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Kacenka Faithbringer
My very own little corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.29 10:00:35 -
[1] - Quote
So what about an arbitrator? That ship seems just underwhelming, could use some kind of buff. What about losing one top (while keeping 2 launcher, 2 turrets options) in favor of one more mid? It currently kinda sucks as ewar or combat platform. Giving it one more mid at the cost of one top while not changing PG or CPU would open some interesting options while not being OP.
Any thoughts? |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
283
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Posted - 2015.06.29 11:34:04 -
[2] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408933
Was also thinking about some changes of Arbi... |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
703
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Posted - 2015.06.29 11:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Arbitrator is not a combat recon but a support cruiser. It's purpose is to give noobs an idea in what direction recon ships will head and see if they like it or not. It's not a design flaw that the general tech one class is not as specialized as the recon ships themselves and they are not designed to do (much) damage.
Anyhow they WILL however disrupt any subcapital turret at low costs.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1195
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Posted - 2015.06.29 12:02:30 -
[4] - Quote
I think the point of it is so it's not an ewar platform that can be shield tanked at the same time. |
Kacenka Faithbringer
My very own little corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.29 12:20:43 -
[5] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408933
Was also thinking about some changes of Arbi...
I like the mining bonus :D don't take that away. changing in into anything else useful would be a direct buff, IMHO too OP |
Kacenka Faithbringer
My very own little corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.29 12:22:48 -
[6] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I think the point of it is so it's not an ewar platform that can be shield tanked at the same time.
even if you change one top to mid, would it really be able to tank significant amount in shield tank without tweeking pg/cpu? but if yes, that could be a problem :/
I personally would be happy with even sacrificing two tops for one mid, but I'm not expert enough to know if that would still be buff or nerf |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
252
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Posted - 2015.06.29 12:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dude the arbitrator is awesome. Go full neuts armor rep and td. You can have so many flights of drones and do alright dps. Plus lots of people go lol arbitrator. Its like a vexor but tad worse. Still amazing |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
419
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:53:38 -
[8] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I think the point of it is so it's not an ewar platform that can be shield tanked at the same time.
It is an Amarr ship - Amarr ships are built around a premise of armour tanking. You may complain that it can't fit sufficient Armour/resists but a shortage of mids for a shield tank is not really something you can slate an Amarr ship for IMHO.
Tiddle Jr wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408933
Was also thinking about some changes of Arbi... Response as I said then - the mining bonus is a legacy - it should never be replaced with anything else. I'd rather it wasn't removed but... |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1195
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Posted - 2015.06.29 19:00:15 -
[9] - Quote
im saying the reason why it doesn't have an extra mid is exactly your reason of amarr being armour ships |
Kacenka Faithbringer
My very own little corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.29 19:59:47 -
[10] - Quote
I don't want mid for tank, I want it for ewar :D but I get your point |
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
283
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Posted - 2015.06.29 22:52:11 -
[11] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Response as I said then - the mining bonus is a legacy - it should never be replaced with anything else. I'd rather it wasn't removed but...
To be honest there is nothing to do with legacy, the ewar drone bonus looks more obvious. |
Bobaa Fett
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
3
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Posted - 2015.06.30 07:59:42 -
[12] - Quote
How is this ship bad? What fit are you using and what are you using it for?
I will say that the armor fit arbitrator, solo, is a sitting duck. There are other, in my opinion, better ways to apply it.
Our corp uses nano version of the ship that includes all neuts in the highslots, a DCU, DDAs, Nanofiber, LSE, MWD, Disruptor, Cap booster..... It moves well over 2000 m/s cold which isnt too bad for a t1 amarr hull. It's a very nice drone boat. My corp has taken out over 30 ships in a single day without taking a single loss in a 3 man arbitrator roam, generally fighting battlecruiser/cruiser/frig gangs that outnumber us...pretty consistently. It's not 'worse' than the vexor - it all comes down to piloting and your fit and how you apply it. If you do get caught, there is the option to neut the ship out fairly quickly. As far as laser fit amarr ships go I generally just neut them out since no one seems to like to fit cap boosters for...whatever reason, and then they die helplessly - same goes for blaster hulls.
Learn to fly skirmish, you will never want to go back to flying armor hulls for any doctrine other than with logi. The only armor hull I have not been able to solo in a skirmish-kite ship has been the ashimmu due to it's 45 km web range - or another skirmish ship that moves faster.
I've seen my CEO and one other pilot in corp take down several deimos in arbs. they basically avoided his blasters the entire fight and he ran out of cap. Either that or they would fly into one and just neut it out at blaster falloff and time the cycles to a medium cap booster's cycle. You CAN apply this ship very well if flown properly. |
Bobaa Fett
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
3
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:01:39 -
[13] - Quote
Bobaa Fett wrote: I don't know what I'm seeing. The Arbitrator is an amazing PvP Nano kite droneboat utilized with neuts considering its price and applicability; a cheap t1 alternative to the curse It sounds like you're beating your head onto a concrete wall in the way you want to apply the Arbitrator, which will leave you very unsatisfied with the ship. But this is not a suboptimal hull by any means when flown and fit properly. And you don't need the EWAR, though it can be useful in small gangs. ( I just don't like sacrificing a cap booster when im running a MWD the entire fight) HIGH:x2 RLML IIs x2 Small Energy Neut (Or all neuts with some medium unstables in the mix - I prefer this) Medium:LSE II Warp Disruptor II Medium Cap Booster II (with 800s, you wont need very many to keep the MWD running the entire fight) meta 4 MWD. Low:DCU II x3 DDA IIs Nanofiber II Rigs:x3 Medium Core Defense Field Extender Drones: (Varies) x5 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Acolyte II x5 Warrior II The Board of Education (lately people have been ******* up with bling fits, but we're generally good at fighting in t1 hulls, especially the nano-arbitrator) (06JUN2015 5 man arbitrator roam - all same fight) - No links No logiKills: Cyclone, Maller, Thorax, x2 Exequror, taranis (nearly had an armageddon but they brought a bhaalgorn and archon on grid so we left) Losses: None (07JUN2015 3 man arbitrator, at one point) - no links no logiKills: Deimos, ( Same prolonged fight in kamela: Thorax, Tristan, Rupture, Fed Navy Comet, Brutix, Republic Fleet Firetail, Imperial Navy Slicer, Vexor, Omen, Confessor, Condor) Griffin, Maller, Stabber, Exequror Losses: None
As for going against a Vexor pilot in a solo PvP scenario, this all depends on his fit, skillpoints, and piloting against yours. Vexor might have more optimal drone options in their bandwidth but let's take a look at drone comps: A common 2 heavy, 2 medium, 1 light drone comp, though it has good paper DPS in contrast to an arbitrator, is useless when your target is moving at 2200 m/s cold or faster. Your heavy drones will more than likely be destroyed within seconds by a full 5 medium drone composition against a similiar SP pilot. This leaves you with using the same drone comp as an arbitrator pilot to be able to apply...well...the same dps. Oh, but you have blasters which give you more dps right? Well, a nano arbitrator will be moving well outside of your blaster falloff, so subtract that DPS as well, and unless you can get a hard tackle by slingshotting a target moving twice your speed, easier said than done against a decent pilot, you will die a slow painful death. The vexor pilot can win if it's similarly fit with a better pilot, or if the pilot can manage a slingshot.... so ultimately what I'm saying is the ships are balanced because it comes down to the fit, the skillpoints of the pilot, and the piloting itself? I don't believe there is additional balancing required.
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Bobaa Fett
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
3
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:04:35 -
[14] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Dude the arbitrator is awesome. Go full neuts armor rep and td. You can have so many flights of drones and do alright dps. Plus lots of people go lol arbitrator. Its like a vexor but tad worse. Still amazing
Again I don't know about a 'tad worse' I think they're very similar - pitted against each other - it all depends. Heavy drone comps aren't going to do much to nano-arbitrators so you're kind of stuck doing about the same dps to be able to apply it. Armor arbitrators going against armor vexors...yeah the vexor will come out on top. All depends. |
Bobaa Fett
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
3
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:21:54 -
[15] - Quote
I don't know if I agree with what has been said. The Arbitrator makes a real nasty Nano cruiser droneboat. It might not share the ability to use heavy drones as well as a Vexor, however, let's talk APPLIED dps versus paper dps.
I see a lot of 2heavy, 2medium, 1 light drone comps on vexors; they apply absolutely 0 dps to nano-fit ships moving over 2300 m/s cold, including the nano arbitrator - and generally wind up losing drones, or spend way too much time pulling them and losing dps anyway. The vexor would have to use a 5 medium drone comp and would wind up doing, well, the same dps as an arbitrator with the same SP and similar nano-fit, or the Vexor pilot with this comp would have to slingshot its target to scram/web range to apply heavy drone dps.
I will agree that if you took an buffer armor Arb and pit it against a buffer armor Vexor, yeah it will probably lose (Active vex might stil lose to a neut fit armor arbitrator) - But why are you attempting to fly the arbitrator with limited highsot options, similarly to a Gallente-class brawler when the T1 Gallente hulls were designed to excel at that?
So it's not about rebalancing, it comes down to how you fit and apply the Arbitrator. It doesn't necissarily NEED the EWAR either and it can be used primarly as a solo/small gang pvp droneboat.
Highs: Small Neuts & 2 Rapid lights (OR) Small Neuts & medium unstable neuts mixed (Preffered) Mediums: LSE II meta 4 MWD Warp Disruptor II Medium Cap Booster II (keeps mwd running indefinitely) Lows: DCU II x3 DDA II Nanofiber II Rigs: Medium core defense field extender Is. Drone: 1 medium group 3 Light groups
I use that fit at disrupt range and only use the neuts for small tacklers who are dumb enough to get close. It works extremely well solo and in small gangs as long as you know what fights to pick. We've taken out dozens within a single fight with only 3-5 arbitrator pilots without using any links or logi, so it's defintely not a suboptimal hull.
I dont think any balance is required, it all comes down to SP, the piloting, and the fit. |
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space The Asylum.
859
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Posted - 2015.07.01 04:02:32 -
[16] - Quote
Arbitrator is decent, but sorely needs some extra PG. Fitting a 1600 plate to it completely nukes the powergrid and you basically can't do much without it after that. Most other cruisers can fit a 1600 plate with some decent sacrifice while having space for other things. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
419
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Posted - 2015.07.01 20:08:04 -
[17] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:To be honest there is nothing to do with legacy, the ewar drone bonus looks more obvious. The Mining Drone bonus is entirely lagacy - if it is removed it will not (and should not) be replaced - I do not think the Arbitrator would look like a good prospect if it were to have: 7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness; 10% bonus to strength of Electronic Warfare Drones... |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
290
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Posted - 2015.07.02 00:30:37 -
[18] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:To be honest there is nothing to do with legacy, the ewar drone bonus looks more obvious. The Mining Drone bonus is entirely lagacy - if it is removed it will not (and should not) be replaced - I do not think the Arbitrator would look like a good prospect if it were to have: 7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness; 10% bonus to strength of Electronic Warfare Drones...
Why not? I mean what is the point of having obsolete legacy bonus which is most of pilots not even used before. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3771
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Posted - 2015.07.02 04:54:43 -
[19] - Quote
It's like the navy BSes everyone cried about losing, so CCP retained them and they never get used. Hopefully they'll be rebalanced into something worthwhile.
Oh god.
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